NY NY - Manhattan, 'Midtown Jane Doe', WhtFem 16-21, 337UFNY, under concrete, ring w/ 'P McG', Feb'03

Hollow said:

more from article...

That year, the city set a record for murder as drug-fueled slayings pushed the number of homicides to an unheard of 1,896.

Gardiner had hoped that the serial number on the watch might identify a buyer, but he struck out there.

But in February, he learned the digits were randomly assigned for insurance purposes and not linked to the watchmakers customers.

A month later the detective moved on to the ring on the victim's pinky.

Gardiner asked the FBI for anyone reported missing in the United States with a birth date after 1958 and the initials "PMcG", the initials inscribed on the ring. He eliminated all 11 names because of their race, age or other factors.

Last April, detectives plowed through a list of 500 women arrested nationwide with the same initials. All but five have been ruled out.

But there's always a chance the ring bears the initials of someone other than its wearer.

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My grandmother's name was Phyllis McGrorty.

Lex141 said:

Wow, this takes it in a whole different direction. I can't believe this was never used in the connection before. Amazing sleuthing

"The Scene" in the late 60's was a rock club, considered to be the original Studi 54, frquented by Andy Warhol and his entourage (edie sedgwick, etc)

Instead of the prostitute/runaway theory, she could be a groupie type, kind of like Penny Lane from Almost Famous

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Haunting echos of Judith here.....

My love to you Maureen, and your family. I hope that they can give you an answer on this one. DNA technology improves all the time. There is always hope, even when we having nothing else.

I wonder how firm they are on the later-than-1992 date.

alllads said:

I wonder how firm they are on the later-than-1992 date.

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Me too. My "gut feeling" has always been that the crime was committed earlier than they said it was, not later...

That said, it would make a lot more sense for it to have happened more recently, because the building(which they just demolished) became increasingly deserted as time went by.

I think tenants were still occupying a couple of the less run-down apartments until a few years ago, when the building was sold and they had to be evicted to allow for the new construction they're now in the process of building a foundation for.

As others have mentioned in several places I've seen this case discussed, this was clearly a professional hit - it took some planning, and it also required either the permission or ignorance of anyone who might have been in charge of the building or its maintenance(extreme ignorance, I'd think, given how involved the burial was, and how much time it probably took).

Because they found rat poison, I wonder if there are any records of high-profile trials between 1992 and 2002 for which a key witness never showed up. I say high-profile because someone probably had to pay a lot of money to make this happen. Tons of work went into ensuring she wasn't going to be found, so I think it's probably a case in which either the criminal or the victim is/was a well-known person(or associated with one).

I think it's weird that people automatically assume that her glittery clothing and pantyhose would make her a prostitute...if anything, I'd assume she had expensive taste, or just liked to go clubbing. She might have gotten into drugs, and it might have messed up her teeth.

There's now a NCMEC page for this UID. I am so happy, a lot of NYC cases were added that should've been there a long time ago.

http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMU/1107110/1#poster

:bump: for new recon




Wait, my sketch that I posted was already replaced. Oops, sorry. :blushing:

Is it just me or does she indeed resemble Judith O'Donnell?

I think her sister is looking into it. See post #178 among others. There are quite a few possible connections. Height is WAY off though.

This new composite looks nothing whatsoever like the old one, but it also looks like it'd be ten times more accurate. I hope the more detailed, more realistically-proportioned face will help identify her.

She does look a little bit like Judith.

I can't shake the feeling that this is Judith, height difference or no height difference.

I know that realistically the height difference makes it unlikely, but this Doe just seems to keep pointing right towards Judith.

I hope that Maureen can get an answer, whatever it is.

Although the height is indeed way off the fact that the ring with those initals has stuck with me as far as s connection with Judy. How coincidental that it has her grandmother's initials? Could it be someone who knew Judy if not her?

My family and Maureen/Judy's family spent some time together growing up. Our mothers were friends. We share some lovely memories. Judy needs to come home.

This girl had an Irish tattoo and was supposed to be (according to the article) in Brooklyn NY area when she went missing March 12, 1995.

When I looked for a pic of her I didn't find one online. Age and height is within range. The court case file says the defendant probably dismembered her but as far as I can tell there is still no body.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/14803/42/


http://articles.philly.com/1995-04-01/news/25687375_1_missing-person-report-police-body

FYI - I had a bad experience with a dentist once and even though I have insurance I will not go if I can avoid it. I just take real good care to not need a dentist. I can't be the only person with that type of anxiety.

Was the floor of the basement dirt?

I am familiar with this area so I'm going to try to catch up on this thread.
Off-topic, but there is a luxury hotel going up on this site now and a construction worker fell to his death recently there.
http://therealdeal.com/blog/2015/05...lling-24-stories-at-new-riu-hotel-in-midtown/

asp17061 said:

Is it just me or does she indeed resemble Judith O'Donnell?

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For years I have been convinced that MJD is indeed Judy O'Donnell. Too many coincidences - the PMcG ring, the facial similarities from the first recon of MJD, the bra size, the glittery clothes and the fact that Judy frequented Studio 54, the fact that Judy had been seen on TV at the Reagan inaugural and someone clearly went through so much effort to make sure that MJD wouldn't be found. I have a whole written theory at home, but am at work right now.

Also, FWIW, my ex is horrible at finding facial similarities, even among his own family (insisting he is not a carbon copy of his uncle and his sister, which he is) - and even he said that the MJD recon looked similar to Judy.

http://www.nampn.org/cases/bailey_tavia.html

Tavia Bailey, missing from Florida. Fits in many ways including height.

Just starting this thread for the first time so if these things have been addressed already I apologize.

I don't take much stock in anything found "near" the body, since this place was said to have been used by prostitutes and had several entrances. Imagine how many people were coming and going and what a mess the place probably was. Lots of red herrings to be found, and lots of things to confuse the case.

The ring thing... I agree, it doesn't have to be a mans. I have a ring that was my grandmother's and it's teeny tiny. It's silver and has her whole first name on it, rather than initials, but the thing will not even fit all the way down my pinky finger. I'm tall and more built than MJD but I can imagine a similar ring fitting on the pinky of a person her size.

I saw it mentioned that she might have come from Europe (or maybe even Eastern Europe? forgot the post already lol) but I think they can usually tell dental work from other countries, especially EE and her work was extensive (before being neglected).

The concrete info is amazing. Someone had to see someone carting in 45 bags of cement and mixing it up. Unfortunately the people who were likely hanging out in that area are likely long gone (due to time and their lifestyle) or just too mentally incapacitated (then or now) to be able to be of help after all this time.

Interesting case. NYC was such a ****hole back in the day. Well parts of it, I mean. The city has changed so much it's incredible. I know it still has it's areas, but the gentrification of NYC is amazing (using that in the strictest sense, and neutrally).

As in all cases I hope this gets solved. As usual though it's going to take someone brave coming forward or a family filing a MP report on someone long gone, after all these years, or something else. I hate feeling hopeless about a case. But I've seen weirder things happen.

The concrete slab, to me, suggests organized crime. Construction in Manhattan was heavily mobbed up during the time period. Hells' Kitchen was home to the Westies, a violent Irish gang with links to the Gambino crime family (who had a heavy piece of the concrete trade). Chances are the slab wasn't poured to hide the body, but rather someone knew the slab was being poured and placed the body there. There was a murder in 1980 (Thomas "Shorty" Spero) where the body was hidden in a similar manner.

notamisfit said:

Chances are the slab wasn't poured to hide the body, but rather someone knew the slab was being poured and placed the body there. There was a murder in 1980 (Thomas "Shorty" Spero) where the body was hidden in a similar manner.

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I disagree (politely, of course!) The slab was poured at a perfect size to hide her body, and I can't think of any reason why it would have been poured in the first place if NOT to hide a body. There's no practical need to build a concrete slab in an otherwise unfinished basement, and IIRC it was behind a water heater or a boiler or something to that effect. If the floor was being replaced or a wall being built, I could absolutely believe that someone took advantage of that and hid her there.

I just ran across this profile on NamUs and am getting caught up on the thread. I do not understand why LE thinks that this UID died in the 1990s or later. With a 1969 coin and a 1966 watch found with the body, it is practically screaming to me, "I DIED SOMETIME BEFORE 1980!" (though I do agree that Judy sounds like an extremely good match and I am dismayed to see so many rule-outs without her name on the list -- it's been 3 years since her sister reported the potential match and since Judy has living relatives, and since it seems they've been able to do DNA comparisons with other MPs, why is it taking so long to rule Judy in or out?). I mean, just one of those things and I would dismiss it as "she just had a really old item" -- but both? And if she was a prostitute, how many of those fancy vintage watches? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Next thought: Pantyhose? If the UID was wearing pantyhose, I think she died sometime long before 1992. By the 1990s (even really, by the 1980s, if I recall), very few young non-professional (as in white collar worker, not prostitute) women were wearing them except in the most formal of circumstances or if they were forced to (like I was as a waitress in the 90s). They were definitely not something I would have worn very often if left to my own devices. Yet, my mother's generation would have not been caught dead without them in the 1960s-1970s. So, to me, that's another piece of data that suggests to me that this woman/girl died long before 1992. Finally... bits of sequins and such does not, I hope, mean "prostitute" since I and many of my friends have been known to wear sequins, just sayin'!

Subscribing, just noticed this thread in relation to the missing Judy O' Donnell case.