AZ AZ - Williams, Coconino Co, 'Devil Dog Doe' WhtFem 411UFAZ, 55-65, off I-40, Oct'03

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I noticed Cloudia Leslie Wells and thought that she looked like this UID --

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http://dojapp.doj.ca.gov/missing/detail.asp?FCN=4619810100194
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7769/7
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wells_cloudia.html

She has a heart condition (like the woman found in Arizona) and her loved ones say that she has traveled all over the country. The earrings that she is wearing in the photo when she was younger look like clip ons (IMO).
 
Her Namus page lists these ruleouts (https://identifyus.org/en/cases/9967):

Exclusions
The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent:

First Name Last Name Year of Birth State LKA

Tina D'Ambrosio 1961 Arizona
Janet Fairhurst 1944 Arizona
Catherine Nelson 1959 Arizona
Elizabeth Rogers 1931 North Carolina
Patricia Schmidt 1964 Virginia
Dianna Vicari 1973 Arizona
Vernette Wester 1947 Arizona
Billie Willard 1941 North Carolina
Lisa Zochowski 1967 Arizona
 
KivaSupporter said:
Other: Results of isotope test indicates the victim could have spent her formative years in Central Europe possibly Vienna, Austria and spent the last decade of her life in Western France, possibly near Paris.
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If the isotope test indicates she spent the last decade of her life in France, she can't have been in the US long enough for a US isotope signature to be established. This suggests that either she was a tourist or perhaps was visiting a relative in the US. Either way there should be some documentary evidence of a woman who entered the US from France (or thereabouts) who didn't subsequently leave.
 
KivaSupporter said:
Other: Results of isotope test indicates the victim could have spent her formative years in Central Europe possibly Vienna, Austria and spent the last decade of her life in Western France, possibly near Paris.
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Returning to this: if the age estimate is correct she would have been born somewhere between 1938 and 1948, a period during which there was a lot of movement around Europe. There's a reasonable chance that her family were refugees from the advancing Russians in Eastern Europe in the late stages of the war, or fled what later became the Iron Curtain countries before that IC had been fully established. There were (and still are) substantial ethnic German populations in the Sudetenland (the western part of what is now the Czech Republic), western Poland and Transylvania in Romania.

The other, admittedly statistically unlikely, possibility is that she was one of the blond(e) "aryan" children stolen by the Nazis to be adopted by suitable childless German and Austrian families. In this case she would obviously have no genetic link to her adoptive family unless she was adopted with a sibling.
 
mysteriew said:
Advances in DNA-identification could make it possible to distinguish between Doe's DNA and DNA of the person who made the bite. There's no guarantee, but there's a chance a lead might develop.
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I've read through the thread but haven't noticed any developments on the DNA profile of the person who bit her. Has anyone seen anything more about this? It would be a huge lead if a profile had been produced.
 
Bobbisangel said:
Devil Dog???? That is insulting in my book. They could have at least given her a pretty name!
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Why insulting and why should they give her a "pretty" name? Murder ain't pretty and there seems little distinctive about her body (other than her age) and no clothing to differentiate her from all the other Jane Does in that part of the US. They gave her a distinctive name based on where she was found which will help her stand out amongst all the rest, and that's what's important.

If they'd called her Granny Doe someone would have complained.
 
Julessleuther said:
I wonder if the suspect can be placed in Arizona during that time? Williams is right off Rt 40, which is one of the major throughfares from California to all points east. It is what became of the old Rt 66 (at least through AZ and NM). If he can be placed in CA, NV, NM, or AZ during that time period, I would think that this is her.
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Leaving aside the possibility of of this being Annelise Schweickardt since she would not fit the isotope profile, I wonder if this was a well-to-do (based on the cost of her dental work and the standards of her manicure) middle aged woman tourist from Europe who was comfortable enough with English to travel independently and who was driving Route 66 but picked up the wrong hitchhiker. She could also have been half of a couple whose husband or other travelling companion was also murdered and dumped elsewhere.

If she had eaten 1 - 3 hours before her death, she must have stopped somewhere within a reasonable distance and interacted with servers and other staff. What rest stops are there within that sort of travelling distance either way along Route 66 from (but probably east of) where she was found?
 
MelmothTheLost said:
If she had eaten 1 - 3 hours before her death, she must have stopped somewhere within a reasonable distance and interacted with servers and other staff. What rest stops are there within that sort of travelling distance either way along Route 66 from (but probably east of) where she was found?
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I wonder what that meal consisted of. The autopsy should have established her stomach contents pretty closely. Was her last meal of typical breakfast foods (eg eggs, pancakes, cereals) or of foods typically eaten for lunch (eg a sandwich) or dinner (a burger or suchlike)? That would help establish the time of day when she most likely died, for example if it was breakfast foods then she had probably spent the night somewhere 1 - 3 hours journey time to the east or west.

I can't help thinking there's a middle aged female European visitor who arrived in the US for a holiday but did not leave. In the wake of the heightened travel security following 9/11 wouldn't that have been picked up by Immigration?

Since she doesn't sound to me like a hitchhiker (wrong age group, too prosperous), it's also likely that a car rental company didn't get a rental car back which should have been flagged on their systems.

The identity of this woman does seem solvable, though I doubt her murder would ever be.
 
KivaSupporter said:
Dentals: Available. Extensive dental work -- crowns, bridge work -- in excess of $20,000. Tooth# 14 has porcelain fused to a metal crown, a root canal was performed on tooth #14 sometime after the crown was placed, tooth #15 has a full gold crown, three unit fixed partial denture [bridge] in the back lower right side of mouth, the bridge abuts tooth #28 on the mesial and covers over or replaces tooth #29 and #30 with either tooth #31 or tooth #32 on the distal abutment.
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That's pretty distinctive dental work and I would imagine thather dentist would have recognised it if shown the deceased's chart. I wonder if the chart was ever circulated to dentists practising in France, especially the Paris area and the western half of the country, or indeed Vienna.

The gold crown is interesting. I know they are offered in the UK but most people who could afford gold would probably prefer porcelain over metal, even at the back of the mouth. I wonder if the gold crown reflects eastern European dentistry from the period before the fall of the Iron Curtain. Perhaps work done in Vienna by a dentist who trained in the east. It's worth noting that Bratislava, now the capital of Slovakia, is only 30 minutes by car from Vienna across the Danube, so it's possible that the Bratislava area would produce a very similar isotope profile to that of Vienna.
 
Would she have been a tourist going to the Grand Canyon & surrounding areas? Sorry if mentioned before, so many UI thread, so much to remember.
 
Tony1902 said:
Would she have been a tourist going to the Grand Canyon & surrounding areas?
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That's certainly very possible. I had to look at Google maps to see where Grand Canyon was in relation to where she was found, but I do think it very possible that if she was mostly driving Route 66 then a detour to take in GC seems a very likely event.
 
MelmothTheLost said:
That's certainly very possible. I had to look at Google maps to see where Grand Canyon was in relation to where she was found, but I do think it very possible that if she was mostly driving Route 66 then a detour to take in GC seems a very likely event.
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We drove through that area on the way home from San Joaquin Valley to South Louisiana (avoiding I-10 for hubs precious towed-along 50th edition Mustang theft magnet.) not much there, but I saw lots of former areas where I would never be caught alone, particularly some deserted stretches of 66 which were popular with some of the more unsavory bikers' gangs (not insulting all bikers but some along Route 66 did have grim reputations--I duck!!
 
I don't care to assume, but can one surmise that her recon was taken to all of the hotels/motels/B&Bs, restaurants, gas stations, Grand Canyon Railroad terminus, Amtrak station, bars & likely places for tourists to gather in that small but busy town to see if anyone remembered this European woman? Back on '03?
 
Tony1902 said:
We drove through that area on the way home from San Joaquin Valley to South Louisiana (avoiding I-10 for hubs precious towed-along 50th edition Mustang theft magnet.) not much there, but I saw lots of former areas where I would never be caught alone, particularly some deserted stretches of 66 which were popular with some of the more unsavory bikers' gangs (not insulting all bikers but some along Route 66 did have grim reputations--I duck!!
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As a matter of curiosity, which stretches did you find the most intimidating? Were you ever actually threatened or just had that "feeling" something wasn't right?
 
Just before and after Williams. We stopped for gas there & I was waiting in front of one of the 66 restaurants. Just gave me the hoodoo willies. FWIW, I'd never read either Devil Dog or Valentine's threads.
 
Then there's the Troubles in Gilbert AZ from the prison Devil Dog gang. Funny, I'd always thought 'devil dog' was a Marine or a big black dog, like my lab, Toby, named after a Geetchie Gris-Gris bag.
 
concernedperson said:
Authorities need to talk with Keith Jesperson who is already incarcerated. He was a truck driver (long haul) that has been proved to be a serial killer. That was one of his travel areas and he had that same MO.
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I know this post is rather old, but it should be noted that Jesperson has been in prison since 1995. He couldn't have killed this woman in 2003. Also, blunt force trauma wasn't his MO. He strangled all his victims.
 
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