ME report: Discuss it here

wasnt_me · Jan 11, 2014

geevee said:
Here's a closer look at it, it does seem to have the same pebbly texture as the tile surface, maybe it is a chip in it.

I'd noticed the blood seemed to abruptly disappear around it, so Jaykayelle has a pretty good theory that she dropped the gun there. Either that, or like I was saying, one of her stabs hit the floor as Travis was trying to move and fight her off.

That's odd, though, cause it looks like the blood already dried before whatever happened there. It doesn't seem like if it had happened with fresh blood that the blood would not have seeped down. Unless, like we said, it could be a piece of tape and the blood is under it.

LambChop said:
Not sure what it is but it seems to be on top of the blood splatter. Whatever it is, it's not tagged as evidence.

Yeah, but they didn't even tag those footprints on the white shower casing or the bent up shower door frame.

MrsPC said:
sort of looks like a big piece of tile grout turned upside down to me - that possibly came loose from between the tiles and is turned over

Now that's an idea. I didn't think of it being 3D going up in the air like a mountain. I thought it looked 3D, going down like a pond.

Geevee, do you think that Tawnidilly's bathroom pictures show enough of the floor that we might find where it could have come from? I can't get her pics anymore because they are private.

wasnt_me · Jan 11, 2014

I'm studying the floor, and it becomes apparent to me once again that we don't have ceiling pictures. There's no blood on the ceiling. I was looking at the pictures by the scales and there's so much cast off on that towel wall. Geevee, you're right, there are pictures without a chunk of the wall missing. Looking at these pictures, it appears that they took the chunk of blood for DNA testing.

But my point is, when one is stabbing, I assume they strike, pull the knife out upward and raising it to come down again with consistent force. These causes blood on the knife to fling off it and hit the walls and possibly ceiling. So the fact that there's no blood on the ceiling says something about the attack.

For me, it means that it was low on the ground, and those patterns about 2 inches off the ground outside the toilet room support that. It's been accepted that she stabbed him in the back at the sink, and some say there is cast off on the blinds. I suppose that would support his left hand being on the sink as JM theorized, but if she had her back to the window, how would there be blood on the blinds, but not on the ceiling? She had to be stabbing him by the blinds and then at the sink. But it's remarkable that the second sink appears utterly undisturbed. Or am I remembering that incorrectly?

janx · Jan 11, 2014

LinasK said:
NOT- it was a clerical error and he explained that. Anybody with a basic knowledge of brain anatomy understands that with a gunshot wound the outer membrane layer (Dura Mater) would have to be perforated. The defense (JW) was just trying to make hay out of something that is no big deal, no gotcha moment.

The reason that JW was so desperate and ridiculous in her questioning of Horn was that JA's entire story hinged on her immediately "defending" herself with a gun. Based on the medical evidence, that was impossible.A guy who has been shot through the head cannot grab at a weapon, walk over to another side of a room to a sink, and then ambulate down a hall.

geevee · Jan 11, 2014

wasnt_me said:
I'm studying the floor, and it becomes apparent to me once again that we don't have ceiling pictures. There's no blood on the ceiling. I was looking at the pictures by the scales and there's so much cast off on that towel wall. Geevee, you're right, there are pictures without a chunk of the wall missing. Looking at these pictures, it appears that they took the chunk of blood for DNA testing.

But my point is, when one is stabbing, I assume they strike, pull the knife out upward and raising it to come down again with consistent force. These causes blood on the knife to fling off it and hit the walls and possibly ceiling. So the fact that there's no blood on the ceiling says something about the attack.

For me, it means that it was low on the ground, and those patterns about 2 inches off the ground outside the toilet room support that. It's been accepted that she stabbed him in the back at the sink, and some say there is cast off on the blinds. I suppose that would support his left hand being on the sink as JM theorized, but if she had her back to the window, how would there be blood on the blinds, but not on the ceiling? She had to be stabbing him by the blinds and then at the sink. But it's remarkable that the second sink appears utterly undisturbed. Or am I remembering that incorrectly?

You're not misremembering, no blood or even distrurbance of items by the second sink, and I follow your thinking about the stabbing by the toilet closet being low to the ground and the spatter going behind to the shades and the waste can, but not on the ceiling or behind the sinks, which I'd think it would if he were standing at the sink when she was stabbing his back. And since those stabs were so concentrated, he couldn't have been moving much, more like he was pinned down and her sitting on the back of his legs or his rump.

I think they took that chuck out for testing too, maybe they thought it was hers from its appearance, esp. if it looked like the blade may have hit the wall, might get a mixture like with the palm print.

We're pretty certain she showered before leaving, and the mirror is in front of the sinks, she may have combed/whatevered her wet hair and got the edge of the sink wet, diluting the blood already there.

geevee · Jan 11, 2014

ElleElle said:
I wonder what the diameter of this pic. Is it enhanced and if so, by how much?

Since all the pics are screenshots taken from video/live stream of them on a projector I don't think we can tell very much with certainty Elle, I'm quite anxious for the original pics to be released when everything is over with so we can make better determinations.

As far as that pic, I just cropped and enlarged to show as much detail as possibly, no color enhancements or anything else done by me.

wasnt_me · Jan 11, 2014

We can tell or approximate the size of that missing chip in relationship to the size of the bullet casing. I also have a further back, or zoomed out photo, that shows just how small they both are.

You might have to view the zoomed in picture also to recall where the items are, but the shell is down and to the left of the door stopper. The dent in the floor is a little down and diagonal right of the shell.

MsJosie · Jan 11, 2014

Thanks everyone....this was an awesome discussion from all of you today, that I was to able to follow along and then look at the pictures.

Human life is so precious to most people.....she did not thing so....I hope this ends so for Travis' family.

Thanks again.

geevee · Jan 12, 2014

wasnt_me said:
I'm studying the floor, and it becomes apparent to me once again that we don't have ceiling pictures. There's no blood on the ceiling. I was looking at the pictures by the scales and there's so much cast off on that towel wall. Geevee, you're right, there are pictures without a chunk of the wall missing. Looking at these pictures, it appears that they took the chunk of blood for DNA testing.

But my point is, when one is stabbing, I assume they strike, pull the knife out upward and raising it to come down again with consistent force. These causes blood on the knife to fling off it and hit the walls and possibly ceiling. So the fact that there's no blood on the ceiling says something about the attack.

For me, it means that it was low on the ground, and those patterns about 2 inches off the ground outside the toilet room support that. It's been accepted that she stabbed him in the back at the sink, and some say there is cast off on the blinds. I suppose that would support his left hand being on the sink as JM theorized, but if she had her back to the window, how would there be blood on the blinds, but not on the ceiling? She had to be stabbing him by the blinds and then at the sink. But it's remarkable that the second sink appears utterly undisturbed. Or am I remembering that incorrectly?

Duh, I do have a pic of the whole hallway ceiling, after the walls were dusted, not sure it helps but at least you can see all the way to the bathroom.

ETA: It's larger when you save it.

LambChop · Jan 12, 2014

Thanks, geevee. Just looking at this picture makes me realize that the bedroom door would have been a natural choice if you felt danger. It is right there. He was naked and wet. He wasn't going very far nor fast. Just another made up story to account for the gun. jmo

geevee · Jan 12, 2014

LambChop said:
Thanks, geevee. Just looking at this picture makes me realize that the bedroom door would have been a natural choice if you felt danger. It is right there. He was naked and wet. He wasn't going very far nor fast. Just another made up story to account for the gun. jmo

Yeah, there's just no way a person under bodily threat would turn into the closet, run to the other end of it to climb shelves to find a gun that may or may not be in the same place she claims it was many months before, when the exit is so close and a much surer way to protect oneself. Only she could think anyone else would believe such a tale.

ElleElle · Jan 12, 2014

wasnt_me said:
We can tell or approximate the size of that missing chip in relationship to the size of the bullet casing. I also have a further back, or zoomed out photo, that shows just how small they both are.

You might have to view the zoomed in picture also to recall where the items are, but the shell is down and to the left of the door stopper. The dent in the floor is a little down and diagonal right of the shell.

Two observations:

1. The 1st pic appears to have alot of blood flood where the printer paper box is. The shower must have been running the whole time, or turned off at some point to cause the conjugated blood pools.

2. I'm wondering if the tile chunk missing is a gun shot. Perhaps Jodi hand the gun in her hand and Travis knocked it out (which I suspect), and a gunshot went downwards towards the floor, hence the spent shell?

wasnt_me · Jan 13, 2014

geevee said:
Yeah, there's just no way a person under bodily threat would turn into the closet, run to the other end of it to climb shelves to find a gun that may or may not be in the same place she claims it was many months before, when the exit is so close and a much surer way to protect oneself. Only she could think anyone else would believe such a tale.

Oh, but you forget...

She didn't think of grabbing the gun till she closed the closet door (an action that would have taken as long as it would have to open the bedroom door).:facepalm:

Before that, she claimed she was just going to close the closet door and run around the mulberry bush again--I mean the hallway and then get out. Which makes no freaking sense, I might add. Shut the door, slow Travis down with closed door, but then run around to where you just make him slow down to reopen the door? If he's half way in the closet, he'll just turn around and STILL get you while you're trying to open the bedroom door!

wasnt_me · Jan 13, 2014

ElleElle said:
Two observations:

1. The 1st pic appears to have alot of blood flood where the printer paper box is. The shower must have been running the whole time, or turned off at some point to cause the conjugated blood pools.

2. I'm wondering if the tile chunk missing is a gun shot. Perhaps Jodi hand the gun in her hand and Travis knocked it out (which I suspect), and a gunshot went downwards towards the floor, hence the spent shell?

I'm not following number two. I'm not sure how the bullet can hit the floor and also go through Travis' head.

For the first one, There's a drain on the shower, so the water can't overflow like that. The water is on the floor because she poured it on the floor with the plastic cup she got from under his sink and that was found in the shower with his body. She probably poured it on the floor to wash away her footprints.

She also could have used one of the towels to wipe at the floor, which could cause the blood to get pushed to the sides and dry in clumps. Pushing the water across the floor with a soaked towel would also cause water to be pushed under the closet door and the box soaked it up.

geevee · Jan 13, 2014

wasnt_me said:
I'm not following number two. I'm not sure how the bullet can hit the floor and also go through Travis' head.

For the first one, There's a drain on the shower, so the water can't overflow like that. The water is on the floor because she poured it on the floor with the plastic cup she got from under his sink and that was found in the shower with his body. She probably poured it on the floor to wash away her footprints.

She also could have used one of the towels to wipe at the floor, which could cause the blood to get pushed to the sides and dry in clumps. Pushing the water across the floor with a soaked towel would also cause water to be pushed under the closet door and the box soaked it up.

Look at the sitting shower pic, the floor area is so small his rump is almost covering the drain and water is already building up and spilling over the metal edge, once she crammed him back in there, he'd be covering it so much that all the water still coming out of the shower would flood back onto the floor (frankly everything she's cleaning off him is going onto the floor, putting even more bloody water on the tile).

I do think some of the baseboard smearing was her doing with a towel to get her bare foot prints off the floor, same reason she threw water on the walls, thinking she was removing evidence of her being there. I think you're right about her pushing water around while cleaning the floor and getting more under the linen closet door.

I don't see any damage to the tile in any pics, still think the grey is something on the tile and not a chip in the tile.

ElleElle · Jan 13, 2014

wasnt_me said:
I'm not following number two. I'm not sure how the bullet can hit the floor and also go through Travis' head.

For the first one, There's a drain on the shower, so the water can't overflow like that. The water is on the floor because she poured it on the floor with the plastic cup she got from under his sink and that was found in the shower with his body. She probably poured it on the floor to wash away her footprints.

She also could have used one of the towels to wipe at the floor, which could cause the blood to get pushed to the sides and dry in clumps. Pushing the water across the floor with a soaked towel would also cause water to be pushed under the closet door and the box soaked it up.

BBM ~ How do we know for sure that there was also 1 shot? There is no gun, and Jodi could of picked up other casings during her haste clean-up.

Good call on the boxes. :seeya:

Truth Detector · Jan 14, 2014

MrsPC said:
sort of looks like a big piece of tile grout turned upside down to me - that possibly came loose from between the tiles and is turned over

Well, we know it's not bathroom tile grout. Grout is a fairly consistent color throughout the mix and his bathroom tile grout is brown.

It does resemble a piece of gravel.

wasnt_me · Jan 15, 2014

geevee said:
Look at the sitting shower pic, the floor area is so small his rump is almost covering the drain and water is already building up and spilling over the metal edge, once she crammed him back in there, he'd be covering it so much that all the water still coming out of the shower would flood back onto the floor (frankly everything she's cleaning off him is going onto the floor, putting even more bloody water on the tile).

I do think some of the baseboard smearing was her doing with a towel to get her bare foot prints off the floor, same reason she threw water on the walls, thinking she was removing evidence of her being there. I think you're right about her pushing water around while cleaning the floor and getting more under the linen closet door.

I don't see any damage to the tile in any pics, still think the grey is something on the tile and not a chip in the tile.

It could be possible, but unless there was blood soaked beneath the carpet in the closet, it's not probable. If I recall correctly, the carpet in the closet entry to the bathroom looked pristine. I know they removed a section of it, but they didn't bring it to court, and the people testified that there was no blood in the closet. Bloody water in the carpet padding would mean there was blood in the closet.

Elle on the second gun shot

Anything's possible, but if she was actually looking hard enough to find one shell casing, then the one left behind was pretty much in plain sight, don't you think? And it's next to the chip in the floor, where the first shot and bullet would have been sitting--if the bullet hadn't ricocheted.

wasnt_me · Jan 15, 2014

Truth Detector said:
Well, we know it's not bathroom tile grout. Grout is a fairly consistent color throughout the mix and his bathroom tile grout is brown.

It does resemble a piece of gravel.

Oh, I thought the poster meant it was a piece of the tile from somewhere else but flipped upside down. Geevee said she scanned the floor and didn't find a place it could have come from, though.

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