Identified! WI - Racine Co., WhtFem 199UFWI, 14-25, cauliflower ear, western shirt, July'99 - Peggy Lynn Johnson

JezyUn said:

Thank you , it makes a bit more sense now. I just have a feeling she is like a Michelle Knight in that she maybe went off the grid as an adult. So sad.

Click to expand...

One of the best things about websleuths is that if you enter a name of a missing person (or anyone) in any thread, it will come up in a google search, sometimes in as little as a few days.

Try it.

Google Doreen Vincent missing
or
Doreen Vincent

Check the results. She will never go off the radar.

That's the main reason why I post what I submitted to LE or the Doe Network on websleuths. It gives the missing person and UID more exposure. I make sure the missing person's name is in the title and named at least once in the text. Should anyone look for this person in the future, all that needs to be done is a simple google search and websleuths is listed as a result with a link to the discussion.

Roselvr said:

Possible they checked dentals at one point.
I'm not fully awake & have not done many submissions does anyone know if Rocky is also with NamUs?

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Rocky Wells is a Potential Match Database Administrator for the Doe Network.

From my experience: all possible match submissions are passed to him. If I believe there is a slight possibility of a match I submit to the Doe Network. Rocky responds if the match has submitted or not. If it is not already submitted by someone else, a Doe Network panel looks at it and then decides to forward it to LE.

If I have a stronger feeling about a possible match with a MP to a UID, I contact LE directly through email.

Something did occur to me. What if Jane Doe has a loved one somewhere, but they are in prison..

Ok the thing about this profile is that they have an age progression showing her ears pierced multi times (more than 3?) in it, however I have found it written nowhere that her ears were pierced at all. Perhaps they were but it has not been mentioned. This girl is missing from Canada, likely a very long shot, I just wanted to put her on here due to the similar looks, height and weight. If nothing else, as a possible rule out.

*Note:I searched this thread and did not see her mentioned, however I may have overlooked it, if she was.

joeytes said:

I have submitted matches through the Doe Network. If they say it already has been submitted that means some one already submitted the possible match before you did. Of all my submissions to the Doe Network, I have had no matches yet; but I have noted exclusions to some of the UIDs I matched to Missing Persons.

With CODIS, once DNA is entered for a MP, it is matched against all UIDs DNA in NAMUS.
The same is true for a UID, once entered into CODIS it is matched against all MPs DNA in NAMUS.

A match is called a Cold Hit.

As far as manual DNA comparison--that is up to Law Enforcement not the public. If LE finds a UID with teeth in good to excellent condition, it will immediately rule out a MP with cavities and dentures.

Conversely if a UID is found with teeth in bad condition it will not rule a MP with teeth in perfect condition. It could still be a match. Teeth can decay quickly. Then DNA or possibly fingerprint comparisons come to play. A manual verification and comparison is needed. Manual DNA comparisons can take months even years.

As far as dealing Law Enforcement, in my experience if it is passed once they will keep it in mind and act on it. It is up to LE to add the MP to the rule out list of a UID.

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I will preface my question with this : Please understand I am not challenging
your information or being argumentative. However, I would like to know (and feel it important to hard-working members here) what precisely is the sourse of your information how these potential case resolutions are ruled out and the order of that review?

BaxterDE42 said:

I will preface my question with this : Please understand I am not challenging
your information or being argumentative. However, I would like to know (and feel it important to hard-working members here) what precisely is the sourse of your information how these potential case resolutions are ruled out and the order of that review?

Click to expand...

This is from direct email correspondence over the last year I had with a detective in NJ.

The link to the case is below.

NJ NJ - Galloway Twp - WhtFem 668UFNJ, 14-18, Watch w/Wide Leather Band, Dec'71 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

joeytes said:

This is from direct email correspondence over the last year I had with a detective in NJ.

The link to the case is below.

NJ NJ - Galloway Twp - WhtFem 668UFNJ, 14-18, Watch w/Wide Leather Band, Dec'71 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Click to expand...

Something to consider: Once a case is turned over to NamUS, it becomes the case of the case worker. LE seems to be relieved because they believe the case is gettig a case worker and RM who will stay on top of their case and actually correct errors, reevaluate the information when the computer spits it out as a no match.

We all know LE is very busy. There are cut backs and not enough man power to pursue many of the cold cases. I research for several LE agencies and they tell me they (7 of 9 in the past year) have had no contact with the data base agency. No questions, no updates to report to LE...nothing.

From my research, finding errors, trying to communicate with the data base agency, it seems they make all the decisions until or unless the LE agency who originated the case gets pressure from family and/or a specific tip, at which time they confer with the data base agency who makes the decision based of course on their "professionals", such as an anthropologist, for instance who (in one of my cases) looked at the dental record which was marked with missing teeth on WRONG side. Otherwise, all else was a match. the MP was put on the rule out list and I was told they get ONE shot at a review if there is no DNA. So MP's are left to a subjective review? The young woman (MP is still on the rule out list and she has no DNA to enter. So my question is WHY won't they take her off the list and check the dentals and do other investigative work? To quote a manager: "It's not my job to track down possible errors".

To add even more confusion, if there is a high profile case, lets say from early 1900's and you have someone with a big ego who contacts a researcher daily about researching a possible match and building a genealogy tree and then search for a reference doner "at all cost" because that case worker wants the recognition for "solving the case!", then something is very wrong with that system. I do not buy the premise it's the "best system we have".

Another RM told me if there are prints, that is used first. If they don't match....no reason to go further!

Also worth noting,I cannot get my missing family member's DNA entered in the National DNA data base because I don't want LE turning over her case to Namus. It will only be entered in local DNA data base. Sounds like hostage DNA info to me. I want her case in the hands of a professional investigator.

It might surprise some of you when you read the PR info Namus gives to LE, meaning the conditions and all the hope for a better investigation. The goal is to make UNT THE ultimate DNA testing facility.

So, I do not doubt you are clear in what you were told by LE becaus I know first hand LE is either not given all the info,or depending on what Region, the data base agency seems to operate by different rules.

This is why I believe it is so important to not send a look alike photo as a submission without thourough research and then send it to LE.Short, precise and logical.

Just my take on it. Some bumps in the road can morph into boulders but we can find ways around them.

Don't give up! Some folks make an obscene amount of money to little else than enter data. You who are here do this because you case...with no pay! The whole world seems to be upside down!

I have submitted Amber Carrie Potts as a potential match for Racine County Jane Doe to the Doe Network, and here is the response I got this morning:

~
Thank you for the suggested match. I don't show any comparison of these having been done so I will have our panel look at it. If is proven to be a positive match, I will contact you further.


Best Regards,
Rocky Wells
Potential Match Database Administrator
Area Director Of Ohio/Florida, Doe Network
"International Center For Unidentified And Missing Persons

BaxterDE42 said:

Something to consider: Once a case is turned over to NamUS, it becomes the case of the case worker. LE seems to be relieved because they believe the case is gettig a case worker and RM who will stay on top of their case and actually correct errors, reevaluate the information when the computer spits it out as a no match.

Don't give up! Some folks make an obscene amount of money to little else than enter data. You who are here do this because you case...with no pay! The whole world seems to be upside down!

Click to expand...

I shortened your post a little here, simply for space. First I'd like to say EXCELLENT POST!!!

NAMUS does not work like most people believe it does. Being a person who has a missing family member, I can tell you that from personal experience. My family does not even try submitting possible match's to them. If you submit a person, and both of them have DNA in the system, then they are ruled out by default. Nobody even checks the possibility of a match, because after all the system is infallible.....right? WRONG!! Nothing is infallible. At one point a person listed as a John Doe, turned out to be a 14 yr old girl. Another good example was the case of twins. The DNA NAMUS had was listed as a female, but it got a cold hit with a young man, who turned out to be a twin. The problem was that they were twin boys. So in this instance a young man had been classified as a young lady.

We no longer have the power or authority to edit my sisters NAMUS profile. After all, she is only our sister....what details could we know? Thank the heaven we did not allow NAMUS to do her DNA testing. My advise to anybody who needs DNA testing done for a MP, is to contact the University of Texas. I can not state if they still do, but they used to do it free of charge when it was needed because a person is missing. They keep the profile and it is readily available for comparisons by LE. The FBI is also great about getting DNA profiles completed in MP cases. The profile is entered into codis, but NAMUS does not control the profile.

If we want a comparison done, we always contact LE. We have found we get much better results this way. LE is overworked and understaffed, so we do not abuse the privilege.

In all fairness, the idea behind NAMUS is a great one. Sadly, somewhere alone the way someone forgot the human factor. I do not need someone to tell me a possible match can't be my sister because they both have DNA in the system. I want someone to check that DNA and be sure. Amazingly the actual comparison of two DNA profiles is not what takes a huge amount of time. What takes so long is the people who are consulted all along the way that decide rather or not a comparison is going to be made.

If I had a vote, I'd say get rid of many of the panels of people who get to play God with the information of our loved ones. Hire more techs and less bureaucrats and just do what needs to be done!!Turn the profiles back over to the families, so that we can correct errors, and stop fighting for the position of top dog.

Okay, putting my soap box away and ending my rant.

Still_Seek_Answers said:

I shortened your post a little here, simply for space. First I'd like to say EXCELLENT POST!!!

NAMUS does not work like most people believe it does. Being a person who has a missing family member, I can tell you that from personal experience. My family does not even try submitting possible match's to them. If you submit a person, and both of them have DNA in the system, then they are ruled out by default. Nobody even checks the possibility of a match, because after all the system is infallible.....right? WRONG!! Nothing is infallible. At one point a person listed as a John Doe, turned out to be a 14 yr old girl. Another good example was the case of twins. The DNA NAMUS had was listed as a female, but it got a cold hit with a young man, who turned out to be a twin. The problem was that they were twin boys. So in this instance a young man had been classified as a young lady.

We no longer have the power or authority to edit my sisters NAMUS profile. After all, she is only our sister....what details could we know? Thank the heaven we did not allow NAMUS to do her DNA testing. My advise to anybody who needs DNA testing done for a MP, is to contact the University of Texas. I can not state if they still do, but they used to do it free of charge when it was needed because a person is missing. They keep the profile and it is readily available for comparisons by LE. The FBI is also great about getting DNA profiles completed in MP cases. The profile is entered into codis, but NAMUS does not control the profile.

If we want a comparison done, we always contact LE. We have found we get much better results this way. LE is overworked and understaffed, so we do not abuse the privilege.

In all fairness, the idea behind NAMUS is a great one. Sadly, somewhere alone the way someone forgot the human factor. I do not need someone to tell me a possible match can't be my sister because they both have DNA in the system. I want someone to check that DNA and be sure. Amazingly the actual comparison of two DNA profiles is not what takes a huge amount of time. What takes so long is the people who are consulted all along the way that decide rather or not a comparison is going to be made.

If I had a vote, I'd say get rid of many of the panels of people who get to play God with the information of our loved ones. Hire more techs and less bureaucrats and just do what needs to be done!!Turn the profiles back over to the families, so that we can correct errors, and stop fighting for the position of top dog.

Okay, putting my soap box away and ending my rant.

Click to expand...

Want to start off by saying good rant! I'm not surprised they took your editing powers away cause as you know mine were taken away with Chris. I have not looked at my other MP yet. I do know back with Chris; it depended on who the case worker was; she flat out told me she removed my access. I was going to have my other MP case worker contact her but didn't feel the need because I didn't need to go back in there.

DNA at the University of Texas is actually where NamUs gets kits from. I'm unsure what the difference would be with them requesting it & your family requesting.

We've (my small group before you joined us) had cases we sent in to NamUs that did have DNA; they were rechecked because computers are just machines; there have been cases that they have missed.

I dislike the changes that have happened last year. You being one of my closest friends; know I have a really bad taste in my mouth over it but the one fact that they have left going for them is that advocates are able to produce matches using their system if we choose to use them.

Due to their changes last year where my MP case worker (Carl & I have been talking about her recently) told me that people & IIRC it was WS people (or ones that say they're from here) have sent in too many matches; so they were putting the brakes on it with giving us more hoops to jump through. I hope Carl remembers the email I shared in the group back then because I can't recall the exact wording; will have to grab the email.. but we then decided to start submitting through LE & the ME instead of NamUs.

You & I were discussing NamUs today.. The only thing they have going for them is they're trying to make it a law with the Federal Help Find The Missing Act; Billy's Law that it is required that LE & ME's start entering every MP & UP into their system including; going back over pauper graves to exhume them to extract DNA now so that hopefully; families such as yours may get your loved ones back due to the horrible way they just buried bodies without a thought to them being someone's loved one.

To make this about Racine JD; I'll add Wisconsin for the Federal Help Find the Missing Act - Billy's Law

I'm actually running the NJ for the Federal Help Find the Missing Act - Billy's Law; which I volunteered for because of you & the issues your family faces. I want Florida to have to account to someone; force them to exhume bodies.

~Hugs friend

JezyUn said:

http://doenetwork.org/cases/312dfon.html​

Ok the thing about this profile is that they have an age progression showing her ears pierced multi times (more than 3?) in it, however I have found it written nowhere that her ears were pierced at all. Perhaps they were but it has not been mentioned. This girl is missing from Canada, likely a very long shot, I just wanted to put her on here due to the similar looks, height and weight. If nothing else, as a possible rule out.

*Note:I searched this thread and did not see her mentioned, however I may have overlooked it, if she was.

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She has a post on Unsolved Murders | Missing People Canada. She has relatives & friends posting there. I'll let them know to come here.

Amber Carrie Potts-Jaffary - December 5, 1988 - Age 16 - Missing - Etobicoke

Still_Seek_Answers said:

I shortened your post a little here, simply for space. First I'd like to say EXCELLENT POST!!!

NAMUS does not work like most people believe it does. Being a person who has a missing family member, I can tell you that from personal experience. My family does not even try submitting possible match's to them. If you submit a person, and both of them have DNA in the system, then they are ruled out by default. Nobody even checks the possibility of a match, because after all the system is infallible.....right? WRONG!! Nothing is infallible. At one point a person listed as a John Doe, turned out to be a 14 yr old girl. Another good example was the case of twins. The DNA NAMUS had was listed as a female, but it got a cold hit with a young man, who turned out to be a twin. The problem was that they were twin boys. So in this instance a young man had been classified as a young lady.

We no longer have the power or authority to edit my sisters NAMUS profile. After all, she is only our sister....what details could we know? Thank the heaven we did not allow NAMUS to do her DNA testing. My advise to anybody who needs DNA testing done for a MP, is to contact the University of Texas. I can not state if they still do, but they used to do it free of charge when it was needed because a person is missing. They keep the profile and it is readily available for comparisons by LE. The FBI is also great about getting DNA profiles completed in MP cases. The profile is entered into codis, but NAMUS does not control the profile.

If we want a comparison done, we always contact LE. We have found we get much better results this way. LE is overworked and understaffed, so we do not abuse the privilege.

In all fairness, the idea behind NAMUS is a great one. Sadly, somewhere alone the way someone forgot the human factor. I do not need someone to tell me a possible match can't be my sister because they both have DNA in the system. I want someone to check that DNA and be sure. Amazingly the actual comparison of two DNA profiles is not what takes a huge amount of time. What takes so long is the people who are consulted all along the way that decide rather or not a comparison is going to be made.

If I had a vote, I'd say get rid of many of the panels of people who get to play God with the information of our loved ones. Hire more techs and less bureaucrats and just do what needs to be done!!Turn the profiles back over to the families, so that we can correct errors, and stop fighting for the position of top dog.

Okay, putting my soap box away and ending my rant.

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BBM portion? You have nailed the problem! Two collegues and I are working on a report to address these issues and more, such asemail communication with conflicting information and procedures. There are many problems with the system in missing persons and even more in the unidentified, (imo)
Thank you! I thought I was alone in my frustration and understanding of how this "mega data base" is being run.
You bring up an excellent point regarding DNA. No one will tell you that almost every LE agency gets an alloted number of DNA kits yearly...FREE...!

So when you let them know that you know this, and have very good reason your case should NOT be put on a wait list at the Namus data base, then what you do is request one of the kits be used for your case.

LE will take the swab at their agency. If they do not feel qualified to do it correctly, they will refer you to another, more highly staffed agency and send them the kit. It will cost the the victim's family ZERO! Also, let them know you want a private lab or some place reputable that is not overwhelmed with work. As of now UT is backlogged about 18 months to 3 or more years. They do high profile and pending criminal cases first.

I love your energy and dedication!!I hang out here in my research when needing an extra boost of inspiration.

BaxterDE42 said:

BBM portion? You have nailed the problem! Two collegues and I are working on a report to address these issues and more, such asemail communication with conflicting information and procedures. There are many problems with the system in missing persons and even more in the unidentified, (imo)
Thank you! I thought I was alone in my frustration and understanding of how this "mega data base" is being run.
You bring up an excellent point regarding DNA. No one will tell you that almost every LE agency gets an alloted number of DNA kits yearly...FREE...!

So when you let them know that you know this, and have very good reason your case should NOT be put on a wait list at the Namus data base, then what you do is request one of the kits be used for your case.

LE will take the swab at their agency. If they do not feel qualified to do it correctly, they will refer you to another, more highly staffed agency and send them the kit. It will cost the the victim's family ZERO! Also, let them know you want a private lab or some place reputable that is not overwhelmed with work. As of now UT is backlogged about 18 months to 3 or more years. They do high profile and pending criminal cases first.

I love your energy and dedication!!I hang out here in my research when needing an extra boost of inspiration.

Click to expand...

Yes, LE has free kits that are available to the family of any MP without charge. I do wish to add here, LE agencies do vary on how they collect DNA samples. In most new MP cases they make every effort to obtain a sample of the MPs DNA (toothbrush, etc) whenever they possibly can. There are also many safe kids programs offered free of charge these days, Parents/grandparents need to take the time to participate. Everybody thinks this can't happen in their family, but the sad truth is more and more families are experiencing this tragedy.


NAMUS does have some good qualities. Searching for MP or UP on their site is very easy and offers a wide range of choices to help you make your selection. The downfall is often there is nothing there to help ID the person. Last night I went there and did a search for UP females found after 2/29/1972. I was shocked, dismayed, discouraged and very livid when I saw the results. Even today there are way to many profiles there that have no sketch, no dental, no DNA. Seriously, how is that going to help anybody get identified? There is no excuse for that....NONE, especially not given the technology available today. They look like cases that were just tossed in there to get them off someones desk. If NAMUS wants to be what it was intended to be, then they need to take some of the responsibility for following up on these cases and making sure DNA samples are submitted for everyone, no exceptions. Not doing so (IMO) makes them nothing more than a bunch of pencil pushers trying to pretend to be more than what they are.

Roselvr is very correct on Billy's Law. I implore all to back it, support it and let's get it passed. There are to many people out there in graves marked unknown that have families waiting for answers. Everyone of those families deserves to know what happened to their loved ones. Roselvr knows well the uphill battle we have been raging with Florida in an attempt to find out if they have my sister in a unmarked grave. They always have the same story, there are no remains buried as unknown that appear to belong to a 13 year old girl. My response to that is XXXXXXXXX.

In moving this thread back to Racine Doe, which is where it belongs I feel a huge need to add this....while reading this thread I saw several girls who looked very similar to this Jane Doe. Most of them seemed to be ruled out by default, or one of the many panels or hoops they make people jump through. Consider this, they could have been ruled out by something ignorant such as a height difference.....seriously, that is the most ignorant thing I ever heard of in my life. Distraught families reporting someone missing can easily be off on the height or weight, or someone entering it into any of the MP sites could have accidently entered it wrong. Or someone on one of the panels may have looked at the information and felt certain they would not match. Every time I hear that I just want to punch someone. I mean seriously, who died and made them God for the day? Lets take a poll of families with MP and see how many of them want someone to be able to rule out a possible match without doing a comparison. If NAMUS does not want to do the DNA comparisons then they need to stop holding the DNA profiles that are done by them hostage. Actually, they need to get rid of that practice rather they want to do the comparisons or not.Reminds me of bullies on the playground saying if we do not like your idea then we just aren't going to let you play with our toys. They need to turn the profiles back over to families, or advocates to correct when needed. Oh, lets not even get me started on this.......
Luckily, my family did not allow NAMUS to do our DNA profiling.Myself, I'd strongly suggest staying with the FBI lab.( I am sure they are going to love me for that) Example being, early 2000 LE came across a file of a young girl found in Davie Florida not long after my sister vanished. At that time we did not have our profiles in Codis yet. Sis and I went to LE in Ohio, they did the cheek swabs and we had an answer back in about 2 weeks. The DNA was not a match, my point being it did not take them months to know that.....it took them only a couple weeks. Twice since the FBI did our DNA panels we have had comparisons done, and neither time took more than the two weeks......so as I said before......get rid of the bureaucrats who think they have the right to play God, use that money to pay for more techs to do the comparisons, and lets get these people home.

Oh and on a side note, if anybody tells you they are sure that the DNA profile won't match.....ask them who appointed them God for the day, and contact someone to get a comparison done....please.

Just looked at my MP case; my case worker has not removed my editing powers. So apparently it depends on the case worker. I've built a relationship with my case worker; I'm thankful she trusts me

Roselvr said:

Want to start off by saying good rant! I'm not surprised they took your editing powers away cause as you know mine were taken away with Chris. I have not looked at my other MP yet. I do know back with Chris; it depended on who the case worker was; she flat out told me she removed my access. I was going to have my other MP case worker contact her but didn't feel the need because I didn't need to go back in there.


Due to their changes last year where my MP case worker (Carl & I have been talking about her recently) told me that people & IIRC it was WS people (or ones that say they're from here) have sent in too many matches; so they were putting the brakes on it with giving us more hoops to jump through. I hope Carl remembers the email I shared in the group back then because I can't recall the exact wording; will have to grab the email.. but we then decided to start submitting through LE & the ME instead of NamUs

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Is it unreasonable at this stage of the game to start looking at children who went missing? I looked at Desiree Carroll
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/1611/1/
as well as a few others.
I am trying to wrap my mind around the "how" a deceased person is never claimed.
Perhaps nefarious reasons, such as said person was abducted years ago to begin with, and/or given/sold away to criminal types later or escaped/left on their own in adulthood (maybe original abductor died or went to prison?) and maybe having little education, they wound up in a worse situation, dependent on others, unable to take care of themselves financially, taken advantage of, and abused.
Perhaps any mix of the above stated.
There is a small chance this girl was reported missing by someone, perhaps so long ago, that the connection is not being made now, for whatever reason.
Also, what is very frustrating, is finding cases of females that went missing but the info is either incomplete, no NamUs or other listings or there is no update, photos, ect ect. I have found more of these than I care to count, via my tireless digging.. It is sad, it helps no one to have a case or cases floating around out there without enough information to help either find them alive or identify them if deceased.

JezyUn said:

Is it unreasonable at this stage of the game to start looking at children who went missing? I looked at Desiree Carroll
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/1611/1/
as well as a few others.
I am trying to wrap my mind around the "how" a deceased person is never claimed.
Perhaps nefarious reasons, such as said person was abducted years ago to begin with, and/or given/sold away to criminal types later or escaped/left on their own in adulthood (maybe original abductor died or went to prison?) and maybe having little education, they wound up in a worse situation, dependent on others, unable to take care of themselves financially, taken advantage of, and abused.
Perhaps any mix of the above stated.
There is a small chance this girl was reported missing by someone, perhaps so long ago, that the connection is not being made now, for whatever reason.
Also, what is very frustrating, is finding cases of females that went missing but the info is either incomplete, no NamUs or other listings or there is no update, photos, ect ect. I have found more of these than I care to count, via my tireless digging.. It is sad, it helps no one to have a case or cases floating around out there without enough information to help either find them alive or identify them if deceased.

Click to expand...

VERY unlikely since both Jane Doe and Desiree have their DNA in NAMUS.


Unlikely

I think this girl worked at a stable or ranch and was a bit of a nomad with no close family. She probably moved from job to job and no one noticed her disappearance...


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Never looked at it that way. That could be. I've always thought that maybe this was extreme abuse within the home so her family wouldn't want to clam her if they were abusing her and she passed from it.

I'm on my phone so I can't do much research, but if anyone recalls, was Dawn Mozino ever mentioned as possibly being a match. I know the stats are off but I thought I'd mention her because it was thought that this UID may have been cognitively impaired and Dawn Mozino was cognitively impaired and bears a resemblance to this doe.

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Dawn Mozino

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