Identified! VA - Annandale, WhtFem 245UFVA, ~60, 'NO CODE, DNR, No Penicillin', Dec'96

KJ's Mamu said:

3) Could that tree have been placed on a grave within the cemetery and she “borrowed” it because it was pretty to look at or made her think of happier days while she drank her beverages? Would cemetery maintenance know if that was the case? Have other decorated trees been placed anywhere in the cemetery since? If so, could she be related to the deceased who gets the honor of those trees?

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I actually really like this theory!!

I think she brought the tree. She planned everything else and brought everything she wanted/needed.


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The thing about people not noticing her is like, it's common to use the bus in this area to go to the mall, shopping, to eat, to work, etc etc. She probably just looked like a normal, DC/MD/VA resident, carrying on shopping. Of course, this is just my observation having lived in this area all my life. I know it in no way, shape or form gives me any kind of "edge" over anyone else. I'm simply stating my opinion to help you guys flesh out your ideas and maybe give insight on mysteries.

astridxx said:

The thing about people not noticing her is like, it's common to use the bus in this area to go to the mall, shopping, to eat, to work, etc etc. She probably just looked like a normal, DC/MD/VA resident, carrying on shopping. Of course, this is just my observation having lived in this area all my life. I know it in no way, shape or form gives me any kind of "edge" over anyone else. I'm simply stating my opinion to help you guys flesh out your ideas and maybe give insight on mysteries.

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:floorlaugh:

I don't know what it is but in Cincinnati and the surrounding area we are able to pick out people who are not from here. And definitely in Lexington KY, everyone knew EVERYONE. I used to think it was weird I knew 3 murdered people in Lexington... but really it's not weird.

FiveFelines said:

I wish someone would do an age-regression sketch of Annandale Doe. It might help with some of these PMs who were missing when they were younger, and even with Shirley. They aren't really any good pics of her from the time she disappeared.

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I'm trying to work on one (and also for the no go murder woman) but it's the first time I've tried it and it is WAY harder than I thought it would be!

Tssiemer said:

:floorlaugh:

I don't know what it is but in Cincinnati and the surrounding area we are able to pick out people who are not from here. And definitely in Lexington KY, everyone knew EVERYONE. I used to think it was weird I knew 3 murdered people in Lexington... but really it's not weird.

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Probably because DC has such a huge draw to "outsiders" due to government jobs, contract work and the military presence. That's why no one in this area can drive -- they're all transplants from out of state!! LOL Cincy is such a gorgeous city tho (totally OT)..

I got to thinking, what if this lady had a terminal genetic illness rather than something like cancer. For instance, Huntington Disease. Since Huntington Disease is hereditary/genetic, maybe her siblings and parents had already passed and she was the last one left, had no children, was divorced, etc. She would have known the progression of the disease after having watched them suffer with it and maybe decided she didn't want to go through it but to leave life on her own terms.

Having a genetic, progressive kind of disease would help explain why her DNR bracelet also listed a penicillin allergy. Because I kept thinking, if you've been diagnosed with terminal cancer for instance, why would you be concerned about the possibility of being administered penicillin? But if you had a condition that you might live with for many years before it became unbearable, maybe you wouldn't want to pass on any sooner than you had to, hence the allergy warning.

One thing that argues against something like Huntingtons is that most people are diagnosed in middle age and she was at least in her 60s and to me looks older. Typically victims live approx 20 years after onset, so would she still have been able physically and mentally to carry out her suicide so well if she was diagnosed in her 40s? Huntingtons causes cognitive disability as it progresses, along with motor skill difficulty, so if this was her illness I would think she didn't begin experiencing symptoms until late middle age or later. According to what I googled, onset can occur at any age, but middle age is most typical, so it could have come later for our UID. If she experienced a genetic disease among her family members she would have recognized symptoms when they began, even without a doctor's confirmation.

Anyway, something to think about at least, which doesn't really help us figure out who she was. And it still doesn't explain why nobody seems to be looking for her.

I need her to be identified soon. If you could go ahead and do that, that'd be great.


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Echo echo echo.


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Tssiemer said:

Echo echo echo.

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It wasn't long ago that I discovered this thread but I think about this woman every single day. I'm with you...Tssiemer...really hope she is identified soon.

I look everyday for new missing persons to check her against


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If anyone has any kind of mental health issue, this link is most definitely a HUGE trigger warning.

http://www.finalexitnetwork.org/new/videos/

This is the book we've referenced before in this thread -- I think it was found that Annandale's method was described spot on in this book.

Also, an interesting report from the VA ME on suicide and The Final Exit (TRIGGER WARNING): http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/medExam/pdf/Final Exit for website.pdf


More on the method she used (TRIGGER WARNING):
http://ash2.wikkii.com/wiki/Exit_(plastic)_bag_with_sedatives


If anyone thinks I should take these links, especially the last one, down, please, please, please let me know. I suffer from suicidal ideation and this is pretty hard for me to look at. So please, if you are suicidal now or ever have been, TAKE CAUTION when looking at any of the above links. If you are currently suicidal, please please call 1-800-273-8255 (http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/)

astridxx said:

If anyone has any kind of mental health issue, this link is most definitely a HUGE trigger warning.

http://www.finalexitnetwork.org/new/videos/

This is the book we've referenced before in this thread -- I think it was found that Annandale's method was described spot on in this book.

Also, an interesting report from the VA ME on suicide and The Final Exit (TRIGGER WARNING): http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/medExam/pdf/Final Exit for website.pdf


More on the method she used (TRIGGER WARNING):
http://ash2.wikkii.com/wiki/Exit_(plastic)_bag_with_sedatives


If anyone thinks I should take these links, especially the last one, down, please, please, please let me know. I suffer from suicidal ideation and this is pretty hard for me to look at. So please, if you are suicidal now or ever have been, TAKE CAUTION when looking at any of the above links. If you are currently suicidal, please please call 1-800-273-8255 (http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/)

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Very interesting reading.

I repeat what Astridxx said about the reading: don't read it if you have that kind of mental health issue. It does explain a great deal about our JD's behavior and the circumstances under which she died, but if you've got depression or suicide issues, you probably should stay away. I've been better for decades now and still found Final Exit very heavy going. I had to read in small chunks.

astridxx said:

If anyone has any kind of mental health issue, this link is most definitely a HUGE trigger warning.

http://www.finalexitnetwork.org/new/videos/

This is the book we've referenced before in this thread -- I think it was found that Annandale's method was described spot on in this book.

Also, an interesting report from the VA ME on suicide and The Final Exit (TRIGGER WARNING): http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/medExam/pdf/Final Exit for website.pdf


More on the method she used (TRIGGER WARNING):
http://ash2.wikkii.com/wiki/Exit_(plastic)_bag_with_sedatives


If anyone thinks I should take these links, especially the last one, down, please, please, please let me know. I suffer from suicidal ideation and this is pretty hard for me to look at. So please, if you are suicidal now or ever have been, TAKE CAUTION when looking at any of the above links. If you are currently suicidal, please please call 1-800-273-8255 (http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/)

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I'm just stand over here and read Dr. Seuss instead.


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astridxx said:

If anyone has any kind of mental health issue, this link is most definitely a HUGE trigger warning.

http://www.finalexitnetwork.org/new/videos/

This is the book we've referenced before in this thread -- I think it was found that Annandale's method was described spot on in this book.

Also, an interesting report from the VA ME on suicide and The Final Exit (TRIGGER WARNING): http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/medExam/pdf/Final Exit for website.pdf


More on the method she used (TRIGGER WARNING):
http://ash2.wikkii.com/wiki/Exit_(plastic)_bag_with_sedatives


If anyone thinks I should take these links, especially the last one, down, please, please, please let me know. I suffer from suicidal ideation and this is pretty hard for me to look at. So please, if you are suicidal now or ever have been, TAKE CAUTION when looking at any of the above links. If you are currently suicidal, please please call 1-800-273-8255 (http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/)

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I think it was important to repost these. You included plenty of warnings about them, which was the right thing to do. I apologize in advance if the following thoughts are triggering. (I suffer from depression but am strangely not bothered by this, but I can see how it is problematic for others.)

I find it interesting that this method isn't as "foolproof" as I would have imagined. Not only did Jane really have to know what she was doing (via the book), she had to have access to the correct meds, correct size bag, etc. She chose a place which is secluded but she still could have been found in time. It almost seems risky to me, as death from this method is not always certain and someone might have come across her, even at night. Yet she seemed intent on dying, so I don't think it was a cry for help.

She used Valium, which is a benzo. According to the wiki article, that is even less "effective" because it doesn't affect your motor ability as much as other drugs (so she could have involuntarily moved while sedated and removed the bag). Maybe the brandy helped. It just seems like a less certain method of suicide than I previously thought.

If you take enough benzodiazepines you can go into respiratory distress.


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Tssiemer said:

If you take enough benzodiazepines you can go into respiratory distress.


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Right. I'm not saying that you can't kill yourself or overdose on them. My mother used Valium in an (unsuccessful) attempt many years ago. I just meant that they seem to be a less sure fire way to do it vs barbiturates. It doesn't really matter, it just strikes me as interesting that this isn't as much of a sure suicide method as I thought. But obviously it was effective for Jane. : (

Five I'm so sorry to hear your mom attempted suicide, but I'm overjoyed to hear she survived and I hope she got help afterwards.

Annandale must've taken a bottle of benzos with the brandy to be successful. The nose bleed -- I wonder if that happens when you asphyxiate? Or if she threw up.. I know that knowing those little details don't really help, but I do enjoy speculation nonetheless.


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astridxx said:

Five I'm so sorry to hear your mom attempted suicide, but I'm overjoyed to hear she survived and I hope she got help afterwards.

Annandale must've taken a bottle of benzos with the brandy to be successful. The nose bleed -- I wonder if that happens when you asphyxiate? Or if she threw up.. I know that knowing those little details don't really help, but I do enjoy speculation nonetheless.


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Thanks. She went to a psychiatrist for a while... So she could get more benzos! Now she's just addicted to them. Sigh. She is difficult to deal with, but that's a whole other story.

Back to Jane, I don't know about Valium, but I know it takes a large amount of Ativan to kill yourself. I looked it up a while ago because that is currently my mother's drug of choice. It's not impossible, but you would need to seriously doctor shop and/or stockpile them to get enough to do the job. Valium? I think that's probably stronger, particularly when washed down with brandy. She also could have asphyxiated on her vomit.

I know the authorities believe she chose the cemetery because it was secluded, not because of any personal connection. And while it's not that unusual for people to kill themselves in cemeteries, it doesn't seem to jibe with her nice clothes, etc. Why didn't she rent a hotel room under an assumed name like some other Does?

Jane is such a study in contradictions: the nice clothes vs the redneck humor, the desire to keep her identity a secret vs committing a very public act, almost as if on display.