April 22 weekend of Sleuthiness

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unc70 said:
From all indications in the videos and reports here, Boz was objecting the loudest and "about to jump out of his skin" indicates he was also the most animated.

So, where are your thoughts based after that?
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It would be absolutely natural for me to think there was something on there he didn't want to come out in testimony if his tone and animation rose above that of the defense when the prosc. computer guy testified. But we didn't get to see or hear any of the prosc. computer guy so I don't know how the defense behaved.
Again, I am very grateful to those of you who are patient enough to try to explain the computer files stuff. And grateful to those of you who have been in the courtroom and can come back and share your thoughts and feelings.
 
NCEast said:
It would be absolutely natural for me to think there was something on there he didn't want to come out in testimony if his tone and animation rose above that of the defense when the prosc. computer guy testified. But we didn't get to see or hear any of the prosc. computer guy so I don't know how the defense behaved.
Again, I am very grateful to those of you who are patient enough to try to explain the computer files stuff. And grateful to those of you who have been in the courtroom and can come back and share your thoughts and feelings.
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My honest take on it is that prosecution didn't want to have information presented to the jury that was not accurate. I could go in and testify about these computer files but I wouldn't get it right because I'm not an expert. I might be able to make it sound good though. You can't have somebody testifying as an expert when he hasn't been accepted as an expert by the court. JW, through the questions posed by Kurtz, was trying to give an expert opinion. Zellinger was right to object.
 
gracielee said:
And he didn't have to ask permission, have sales clerks 'hold something for him' to see if Nancy would approve it. Nor did he have to spend his money to buy things for the kids. Birthday presents when they are invited to parties, money for activities, pictures, stuff for school. My daughters are continually complaining how much it costs to fill up the tank on their big SUV's.
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And from what I recalled from KL's testimony that wasn't always happening. IIRC, she said Brad followed them to the gas station, filled the tank and paid, followed them to Sams? Bi Lo? for party supplies and paid, and there BC and NC got into an argument because she wanted to buy a balloon for 1.99 and he wouldn't. Then at the party he wasn't happy he to pay for the pony rides for more than his child. KL said she was willing to purchase the balloon but NC said it would just get her in trouble later at home. So she was definitely ok with confronting him in public but not so much when they were alone, which speaks volumes to me. She felt safe enough to air their laundry and argue in public, not so much at home. I do think Brad got physically violent with her on occasion, but not so much she would admit to her friends. She may have not wanted anyone to know, could have been shame.

Brad was controlling no doubt. He definitely kept NC on a budget and he did take her name off cc's and bank accounts. He was not a nice guy in that sense. But then, even her friends said that NC would find things, let him know and he would pay for them..not out of her weekly money. In the end, Brad did give *at least* the impression he was withholding money, he just wanted to make sure he knew 100% her activities. IMHO 2 very different things.

Kelly
 
johnfear said:
That was my favorite high school summer! Disney Imagineering was my fave college summer!
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My daughter is waiting to find out about her Disney application. Soon we hope..give me a reason to use my AP a few more times a year!

Kelly
 
momof7 said:
My daughter is waiting to find out about her Disney application. Soon we hope..give me a reason to use my AP a few more times a year!

Kelly
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What is she applying to do? My SIL is a performer at Disney.
 
FullDisclosure said:
Dramamama, since you seem to understand what you're talking about, can you do a completely unscientific experiment and try it on your home computer and report back? I'd try it myself, but I might pull something--I better stick to sports bra re-enactments! :crazy:
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Sorry I disappeared, but I am trying to finish cleaning for company. i will definitely do a trial run and tell you what I come up with.
 
FullDisclosure said:
Dramamama, since you seem to understand what you're talking about, can you do a completely unscientific experiment and try it on your home computer and report back? I'd try it myself, but I might pull something--I better stick to sports bra re-enactments! :crazy:
Click to expand...
I'm not Dramamama, but in an effort to allow you to keep your focus on your particular area of expertise, I'll take a shot at explaining it.

First of all, let's clarify what we are talking about. These "openhand" and "closedhand" files are not maps and they are not something that a user would typically be saving themselves. When you are in Google Maps with IE and not clicking on anything, your cursor is an arrow. Then, when you click on the map and start dragging it around, your cursor will change to a little picture of a closed hand.

The picture of that closed hand is what is in the closedhand.cur file (the name of the file is actually closedhand_8_8.cur for IE8). That's all this file is. Just a picture of a closed hand.

The first time you click and drag on the map, Google actually goes across the Internet and gets that little picture from a Google site called maps.gstatic.com. For IE8, it gets the closed hand picture from here: http://maps.gstatic.com/intl/en_us/mapfiles/closedhand_8_8.cur

Now, Google Maps doesn't want to have to keep going across the Internet to get the little picture of the hand every time you click+drag on the map, so it caches a copy of the picture on your computer. When you subsequently click+drag on the map, it uses that cached picture of the hand. On my Win7 system with IE8, the cached version of the little picture is a .bmp file. I didn't ask it to save it in that format, it just did it. I would assume that it did the same thing with whatever version of Windows and IE that BC had.

I have attached a screen grab of what Windows file properties shows for the closedhand_8_8.cur file on my system. Notice that the name it shows for the actual file is the .cur one out on the Internet at maps.gstatic.com. But, below that, it says that the Cached name is closedhand_8_8[1].bmp.

I assume that the cached file is what they were talking about in court. The create date on it would be the time that it was downloaded from maps.gstatic.com and the cache file was saved. Presumably, the access time would be the last time the closed hand was loaded. So, not the last time you dragged. It's the last time you changed the cursor from the arrow to the closed hand. So, the last time you did click+drag.

If the question was how the create time and access time would be the same on the cached file, it seems like it would mean that you clicked+dragged on a map to make it switch to the closed hand cursor, dragged the map around, then released the mouse button and never did click+drag again.
 

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momof7 said:
And from what I recalled from KL's testimony that wasn't always happening. IIRC, she said Brad followed them to the gas station, filled the tank and paid, followed them to Sams? Bi Lo? for party supplies and paid, and there BC and NC got into an argument because she wanted to buy a balloon for 1.99 and he wouldn't. Then at the party he wasn't happy he to pay for the pony rides for more than his child. KL said she was willing to purchase the balloon but NC said it would just get her in trouble later at home. So she was definitely ok with confronting him in public but not so much when they were alone, which speaks volumes to me. She felt safe enough to air their laundry and argue in public, not so much at home. I do think Brad got physically violent with her on occasion, but not so much she would admit to her friends. She may have not wanted anyone to know, could have been shame.

Brad was controlling no doubt. He definitely kept NC on a budget and he did take her name off cc's and bank accounts. He was not a nice guy in that sense. But then, even her friends said that NC would find things, let him know and he would pay for them..not out of her weekly money. In the end, Brad did give *at least* the impression he was withholding money, he just wanted to make sure he knew 100% her activities. IMHO 2 very different things.

Kelly
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BBM

I don't buy that. I think if he was putting his hands on her, she would of told someone. She certainly wouldn't be telling people that she wasn't scared. She told everyone about her business from her friends to the exterminator to the real estate agent. She would have long conversations with her friends about BC, especially after April 08. There is no way he was physically violent with her and no one knew about it.

I think the exact opposite was probably happening. She was the one who usually scolded him, yelled him, etc. She was the one who dictated to him what she wanted, because she felt like she was doing all the work, raising the kids, etc. Go back to the argument at the school, remember what was overheard from BC 'they are my kids too'. How do you think that argument was going? She was the one that probably ripped him a new one when she came home and found the house filthy. She was the one who yelled at him at the party because she been asking for money all day that friday and he ignored her.

He got tired of it.
 
johnfear said:
West! East was at laurinburg no?

Man....Bitting dorm....memories.
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There do seem to be a bunch of us posting here. We are such a smart and talented group. Cute and fun to be with, too.

GC'64
UNC'70
 
SleuthinNC said:
What is she applying to do? My SIL is a performer at Disney.
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She is hoping performer, but applied also for merchandising and a few others. If I recall correctly the only box that didn't get checked was for food service. But, she was willing to check that if it had to be checked!

The only problem is which semester to do it in, she really doesn't want to do summer. She probably will hit summer school and do the fall program because she wants to apply to the Nursing program in the Spring. Better chances in the spring. Decisions for fall program are very soon, May I believe is accurate. I don't talk about 'if' anyway, I talk about all the fun I am going to have when I come down to see her....:floorlaugh:

Kelly
 
cityslick said:
BBM

I don't buy that. I think if he was putting his hands on her, she would of told someone. She certainly wouldn't be telling people that she wasn't scared. She told everyone about her business from her friends to the exterminator to the real estate agent. She would have long conversations with her friends about BC, especially after April 08. There is no way he was physically violent with her and no one knew about it.

I think the exact opposite was probably happening. She was the one who usually scolded him, yelled him, etc. She was the one who dictated to him what she wanted, because she felt like she was doing all the work, raising the kids, etc. She was the one that probably ripped him a new one when she came home and found the house filthy. She was the one who yelled at him because she been asking for money all day that friday and he ignored her.

He got tired of it.
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I was thinking that at first as well, the mutual scoldings etc. Then I realized he held the "green card' as it were. She was willing to go so far. In those last months even Mr. Rentz testified that she was willing to stay in NC and have a coparenting situation with BC. She needed it. She was only willing to go so far. IMHO, had she not gotten one by the end of the summer, no agreement, no green card, the hitting would have come into play and she would have been able to get what she wanted..Canada and her family.

Kelly
 
Bottle Cap said:
That'd have to be some boyfriend she had there, no wonder she was having an affair. A tech whiz able to plant files and change timestamps and also convince a whole buncha people to perjure theirselves for him.
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I think he was invisible, too! That may be why the CPD had so little on him.
 
I also was thinking about the HM and Alienation of Affection. That was a huge shot in the dark for BC or NC to sue her and win. They would have had to prove that their marriage was the best marriage, loving. They were inseparable, their future as a couple had no limits. HM was the one thing that caused the break. With their history, it would not have happened. They sure could have tried, but what money they spent to get it going would have been wasted. IMHO and understanding Alienation of Affection, HM would have been the reason BC's affection for NC as a wife was no more.

Kelly
 
momof7 said:
She is hoping performer, but applied also for merchandising and a few others. If I recall correctly the only box that didn't get checked was for food service. But, she was willing to check that if it had to be checked!

The only problem is which semester to do it in, she really doesn't want to do summer. She probably will hit summer school and do the fall program because she wants to apply to the Nursing program in the Spring. Better chances in the spring. Decisions for fall program are very soon, May I believe is accurate. I don't talk about 'if' anyway, I talk about all the fun I am going to have when I come down to see her....:floorlaugh:

Kelly
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Well good luck to her, I hope she gets something cool to do! Personally I have always wanted to work at Innoventions.
 
RoughlyCollie said:
The breeder we went to had the smallest Yorkie I have ever seen -- she weighed only 2.5 lbs. and was 3 years old. At first, she didn't seem like a dog to me (more like a windup toy), but I treated her like a dog anyway, and sure enough, she was one! She had another pet dog of a breed I had never seen, a Coton De Tulear - very cute, small, nonshedding, with hair that felt like silk.

Aidan will be about 50 lbs when he grows up, according to the vet. He weighs 17.5 lbs. now and has gained 7 lbs and 3" in height since we got him a month ago.

It does feel like we have a little dog right now, and it's nice to be able to pick him up and carry him around. He is so darned cute and extroverted and full of tricks that he keeps us laughing.

We had a Collie, until he died of cancer in February. I prefer big dogs, but our kids did not want another Collie. In a couple of years, I want to get an adult one, though. As cute as puppies are, they are a lot of work!
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Oh, so he's just a pup! He's so cute, and yes, puppies are a lot of work! So sorry you lost your collie. Our neighbors, when our kids were growing up, had collies. Such sweet dogs. I love big dogs too, but the last couple years I've had a yearning for something small, that I could carry along with me. Something scruffy looking, like a wire-haired terrior of some sort. My big dogs keep thinking of themselves as 'lap dogs', and I'm usually quite black & blue in their attempts. :) Those attempts, and when they are laying right up against me, asleep and dreaming, kicking me in their sleep. :)
 
SleuthSayer said:
I'm not Dramamama, but in an effort to allow you to keep your focus on your particular area of expertise, I'll take a shot at explaining it.

First of all, let's clarify what we are talking about. These "openhand" and "closedhand" files are not maps and they are not something that a user would typically be saving themselves. When you are in Google Maps with IE and not clicking on anything, your cursor is an arrow. Then, when you click on the map and start dragging it around, your cursor will change to a little picture of a closed hand.

The picture of that closed hand is what is in the closedhand.cur file (the name of the file is actually closedhand_8_8.cur for IE8). That's all this file is. Just a picture of a closed hand.

The first time you click and drag on the map, Google actually goes across the Internet and gets that little picture from a Google site called maps.gstatic.com. For IE8, it gets the closed hand picture from here: http://maps.gstatic.com/intl/en_us/mapfiles/closedhand_8_8.cur

Now, Google Maps doesn't want to have to keep going across the Internet to get the little picture of the hand every time you click+drag on the map, so it caches a copy of the picture on your computer. When you subsequently click+drag on the map, it uses that cached picture of the hand. On my Win7 system with IE8, the cached version of the little picture is a .bmp file. I didn't ask it to save it in that format, it just did it. I would assume that it did the same thing with whatever version of Windows and IE that BC had.

I have attached a screen grab of what Windows file properties shows for the closedhand_8_8.cur file on my system. Notice that the name it shows for the actual file is the .cur one out on the Internet at maps.gstatic.com. But, below that, it says that the Cached name is closedhand_8_8[1].bmp.

I assume that the cached file is what they were talking about in court. The create date on it would be the time that it was downloaded from maps.gstatic.com and the cache file was saved. Presumably, the access time would be the last time the closed hand was loaded. So, not the last time you dragged. It's the last time you changed the cursor from the arrow to the closed hand. So, the last time you did click+drag.

If the question was how the create time and access time would be the same on the cached file, it seems like it would mean that you clicked+dragged on a map to make it switch to the closed hand cursor, dragged the map around, then released the mouse button and never did click+drag again.
Click to expand...

This would explain why the open and closed hand showed the same time..and when looked at forensically the same time and date was shown..Also, I have been saying for days since I heard that testimony about the tif and bmp search files..that the program of the google map automatically capture the zoomed in image as a bmp file..mainly because for close up image they need the resolution and pixels available to view properly...

As to the timestamp question..I think Irecall that was explained by update activities by computer.....Good job explaining for me what I had been thinking..I hope the Google expert defense brings will be asked those questions...
 
SleuthSayer said:
I'm not Dramamama, but in an effort to allow you to keep your focus on your particular area of expertise, I'll take a shot at explaining it.

First of all, let's clarify what we are talking about. These "openhand" and "closedhand" files are not maps and they are not something that a user would typically be saving themselves. When you are in Google Maps with IE and not clicking on anything, your cursor is an arrow. Then, when you click on the map and start dragging it around, your cursor will change to a little picture of a closed hand.

The picture of that closed hand is what is in the closedhand.cur file (the name of the file is actually closedhand_8_8.cur for IE8). That's all this file is. Just a picture of a closed hand.

The first time you click and drag on the map, Google actually goes across the Internet and gets that little picture from a Google site called maps.gstatic.com. For IE8, it gets the closed hand picture from here: http://maps.gstatic.com/intl/en_us/mapfiles/closedhand_8_8.cur

Now, Google Maps doesn't want to have to keep going across the Internet to get the little picture of the hand every time you click+drag on the map, so it caches a copy of the picture on your computer. When you subsequently click+drag on the map, it uses that cached picture of the hand. On my Win7 system with IE8, the cached version of the little picture is a .bmp file. I didn't ask it to save it in that format, it just did it. I would assume that it did the same thing with whatever version of Windows and IE that BC had.

I have attached a screen grab of what Windows file properties shows for the closedhand_8_8.cur file on my system. Notice that the name it shows for the actual file is the .cur one out on the Internet at maps.gstatic.com. But, below that, it says that the Cached name is closedhand_8_8[1].bmp.

I assume that the cached file is what they were talking about in court. The create date on it would be the time that it was downloaded from maps.gstatic.com and the cache file was saved. Presumably, the access time would be the last time the closed hand was loaded. So, not the last time you dragged. It's the last time you changed the cursor from the arrow to the closed hand. So, the last time you did click+drag.

If the question was how the create time and access time would be the same on the cached file, it seems like it would mean that you clicked+dragged on a map to make it switch to the closed hand cursor, dragged the map around, then released the mouse button and never did click+drag again.
Click to expand...

Nicely done.

In addition, if I understand correctly, the example shown from BC's laptop showed each cursor file with all three visible identical with each other. Open hand and closed hand files had identical timestamp for all visible values. Not normal after having done a search.

Further, any search after that time would have also updated these values. Not sure which other Google apps might share those images.

Finally, the report was indicating invalid timestamp, probably because one of the hidden timestamps is inconsistent with the visible ones.
 
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