2010.04.30 All about alligators

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Concerned Papa

Concerned Papa

New Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
2,708
Reaction score
24
MADJGNLAW said:
Something horrible just crossed my mind!
Remember Ron telling Cobra that Tommy told him about when they were fishing. It was allegedly Tommy, his son, and Joe.The first thing that struck me odd was that Ron started out telling Cobra that "He was the one who told", then changed it to "He" (Tommy), told him that he went fishing.
Now, what just crossed my mind, what if Tommy did go to the River with his son and that is why he lied about the time he was at the MH? Lord, I pray that his son didn't witness anything. I still say that Ron knows much more and Tommy and Misty are protecting him for what ever reason and they are all involved in this one way or another.
Click to expand...

I want to point out a few things about this "Cousin Joe feeds alligators" bs being spread by Ronald Cummings. Remember this is Ronald Cummings telling this tale, not Cousin Joe:

Ron: OK, cuz that`s the same Jr. hank Jr. tommy… and Joe were fishin` with Austin, tommy`s son… at that dock… it got dark… that dock got swamped with alligators… he told me, he said holy *advertiser censored*** s*** i had to get my son out of there i thought lake placid was fixin` to go on!
Click to expand...

Ronald Cummings also told Art Harris:

~snip~

We were together months ago, not far from the pond, at another water’s edge in Satsuma… where marble sized eyes were visible popping out of the St. John’s River, and a dock not far from Ronald’s trailer, where Haleigh’s father lead us to take a look, months ago, noting the lazy cruising ground of the scaly predators, and their indiscrimanting appetite.

Ronald told me that he and Joe Overstreet, Misty’s Tennessee cousin, used to visit the very spot on the St. John’s river to fish, shoot the breeze, maybe drink a tall, cool one, and talk about life…and the appetite of Alligators. In fact, he said, in an exclusive chat with The Bald Truth months ago, that Joe talked about one of his favorite pastimes–watching alligators go to town on small animals or big ones that fell or got tossed in for their dining pleasure.
Click to expand...

My point is the above can not logically be true. Joe Overstreet, according to Misty's LVA exam, was only down from Tennessee for 2 weeks prior to going back home on 2/10/09. That means he got to Putnam County around 1/27/09.

Ronald told Cobra he met Joe Overstreet for THE FIRST TIME on the third day of his visit, which would be sometime around 1/30/09. According to Ronald, Joe "stole" his gun on that day.

Clearly Ronald's knowledge about Joe Overstreet was limited to a very short period of time during the COLDEST time of the year in Putnam County, Florida.

U.S. Naval Observatory (NOAA)

The following information is provided for Jacksonville, Duval County, Florida

Monday, 9 February 2009

Sunset 6:10 p.m.

End civil twilight 6:35 p.m.

Weather: high 74 low 39

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/index.php
Click to expand...

Too bad Teresa's "highly intelligent" son didn't read up on alligators and their biological systems and what happens during cold weather:

One interesting aspect of alligator biology is that they undergo periods of dormancy when the weather is cold.

http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/ReptilesAmphibians/Facts/FactSheets/Americanalligator.cfm
Click to expand...

From The University of Florida:

Feeding activity is governed by water temperature, with foraging activity ceasing if the temperature drops below 20 to 23°C (68 to 73°F).

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/csp_amis.htm
Click to expand...

As reluctant as I am to do so, I am forced to take the word of an accredited University over Ronald Cummings. That dock, nor any other freshwater dock in Northern Florida "got swamped with alligators" at any point during Cousin Joe's visit.

The cold weather seemed to have brought creative story lines out for more than one of this bunch. In short, it was too cold for alligators to be active and it was damn sure too cold for Chef Boyardee on a porch.
 
Concerned Papa said:
I want to point out a few things about this "Cousin Joe feeds alligators" bs being spread by Ronald Cummings. Remember this is Ronald Cummings telling this tale, not Cousin Joe:



Ronald Cummings also told Art Harris:



My point is the above can not logically be true. Joe Overstreet, according to Misty's LVA exam, was only down from Tennessee for 2 weeks prior to going back home on 2/10/09. That means he got to Putnam County around 1/27/09.

Ronald told Cobra he met Joe Overstreet for THE FIRST TIME on the third day of his visit, which would be sometime around 1/30/09. According to Ronald, Joe "stole" his gun on that day.

Clearly Ronald's knowledge about Joe Overstreet was limited to a very short period of time during the COLDEST time of the year in Putnam County, Florida.



Too bad Teresa's "highly intelligent" son didn't read up on alligators and their biological systems and what happens during cold weather:



From The University of Florida:



As reluctant as I am to do so, I am forced to take the word of an accredited University over Ronald Cummings. That dock, nor any other freshwater dock in Northern Florida "got swamped with alligators" at any point during Cousin Joe's visit.

The cold weather seemed to have brought creative story lines out for more than one of this bunch. In short, it was too cold for alligators to be active and it was damn sure too cold for Chef Boyardee on a porch.
Click to expand...

:clap::clap::clap: Exactly! I feel Ron was setting up Joe since day one as well as the Croslin's. I don't buy what RC says at all!
 
Concerned Papa said:
I want to point out a few things about this "Cousin Joe feeds alligators" bs being spread by Ronald Cummings. Remember this is Ronald Cummings telling this tale, not Cousin Joe:



Ronald Cummings also told Art Harris:



My point is the above can not logically be true. Joe Overstreet, according to Misty's LVA exam, was only down from Tennessee for 2 weeks prior to going back home on 2/10/09. That means he got to Putnam County around 1/27/09.

Ronald told Cobra he met Joe Overstreet for THE FIRST TIME on the third day of his visit, which would be sometime around 1/30/09. According to Ronald, Joe "stole" his gun on that day.

Clearly Ronald's knowledge about Joe Overstreet was limited to a very short period of time during the COLDEST time of the year in Putnam County, Florida.



Too bad Teresa's "highly intelligent" son didn't read up on alligators and their biological systems and what happens during cold weather:



From The University of Florida:



As reluctant as I am to do so, I am forced to take the word of an accredited University over Ronald Cummings. That dock, nor any other freshwater dock in Northern Florida "got swamped with alligators" at any point during Cousin Joe's visit.

The cold weather seemed to have brought creative story lines out for more than one of this bunch. In short, it was too cold for alligators to be active and it was damn sure too cold for Chef Boyardee on a porch.
Click to expand...

It's all so fantastic it has to be a lie. Alligators are not saltwater crocodiles. Alligators are shy animals that avoid people. The only alligators in Florida that are swamping anything are the overfed ones at Gatorland.
 
Concerned Papa said:
Ronald told Cobra he met Joe Overstreet for THE FIRST TIME on the third day of his visit, which would be sometime around 1/30/09. According to Ronald, Joe "stole" his gun on that day.

Clearly Ronald's knowledge about Joe Overstreet was limited to a very short period of time during the COLDEST time of the year in Putnam County, Florida.

Too bad Teresa's "highly intelligent" son didn't read up on alligators and their biological systems and what happens during cold weather:

As reluctant as I am to do so, I am forced to take the word of an accredited University over Ronald Cummings. That dock, nor any other freshwater dock in Northern Florida "got swamped with alligators" at any point during Cousin Joe's visit.

The cold weather seemed to have brought creative story lines out for more than one of this bunch. In short, it was too cold for alligators to be active and it was damn sure too cold for Chef Boyardee on a porch.
Click to expand...


Papa, you are the voice of reason. The alligator story is the one they cooked up after THE night, when they were running around Satsuma free as birds, thinking of ways to pin it on someone else. Cobra got to town a few days later? Certainly enough time to think, "alligators!", and run with it.

I can't believe you are taking the word of the University over that of RC and his momma. :eek: Who would do that? :wink:
 
Concerned Papa said:
I want to point out a few things about this "Cousin Joe feeds alligators" bs being spread by Ronald Cummings. Remember this is Ronald Cummings telling this tale, not Cousin Joe:



Ronald Cummings also told Art Harris:



My point is the above can not logically be true. Joe Overstreet, according to Misty's LVA exam, was only down from Tennessee for 2 weeks prior to going back home on 2/10/09. That means he got to Putnam County around 1/27/09.

Ronald told Cobra he met Joe Overstreet for THE FIRST TIME on the third day of his visit, which would be sometime around 1/30/09. According to Ronald, Joe "stole" his gun on that day.

Clearly Ronald's knowledge about Joe Overstreet was limited to a very short period of time during the COLDEST time of the year in Putnam County, Florida.



Too bad Teresa's "highly intelligent" son didn't read up on alligators and their biological systems and what happens during cold weather:



From The University of Florida:



As reluctant as I am to do so, I am forced to take the word of an accredited University over Ronald Cummings. That dock, nor any other freshwater dock in Northern Florida "got swamped with alligators" at any point during Cousin Joe's visit.

The cold weather seemed to have brought creative story lines out for more than one of this bunch. In short, it was too cold for alligators to be active and it was damn sure too cold for Chef Boyardee on a porch.
Click to expand...

IIRC on February 9th at 7:00 pm it was still 57-59 degrees. That is not cold.

Joe had visited through the years weeks at a time and I thought Misty and Tommy lived in their parents home not far from the boat ramp?

IMO
 
Concerned Papa said:
I want to point out a few things about this "Cousin Joe feeds alligators" bs being spread by Ronald Cummings. Remember this is Ronald Cummings telling this tale, not Cousin Joe:



Ronald Cummings also told Art Harris:



My point is the above can not logically be true. Joe Overstreet, according to Misty's LVA exam, was only down from Tennessee for 2 weeks prior to going back home on 2/10/09. That means he got to Putnam County around 1/27/09.

Ronald told Cobra he met Joe Overstreet for THE FIRST TIME on the third day of his visit, which would be sometime around 1/30/09. According to Ronald, Joe "stole" his gun on that day.

Clearly Ronald's knowledge about Joe Overstreet was limited to a very short period of time during the COLDEST time of the year in Putnam County, Florida.



Too bad Teresa's "highly intelligent" son didn't read up on alligators and their biological systems and what happens during cold weather:



From The University of Florida:



As reluctant as I am to do so, I am forced to take the word of an accredited University over Ronald Cummings. That dock, nor any other freshwater dock in Northern Florida "got swamped with alligators" at any point during Cousin Joe's visit.

The cold weather seemed to have brought creative story lines out for more than one of this bunch. In short, it was too cold for alligators to be active and it was damn sure too cold for Chef Boyardee on a porch.
Click to expand...

Thank you C Papa,
I have read this in the past and when all the talk about gattor food started this kept coming back to me. This shoots that theory in the foot big time.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
IIRC on February 9th at 7:00 pm it was still 57-59 degrees. That is not cold.

Joe had visited through the years weeks at a time and I thought Misty and Tommy lived in their parents home not far from the boat ramp?

IMO
Click to expand...

For Floridians and reptiles, that is cold.

I disagree that Joe visited through the years for weeks at a time - there is absolutely nothing that verifies that. Chelsea didn't even know him - and she has been part of the family for a few years.

Tommy lived at 216 Tyler with his wife and kids.

Misty lived at 202 Green Lane.

Hank Sr. and Lisa Croslin lived at 130 Magnolia at the time Haleigh went missing.

Timmy and Chelsea lived in Pomona Park near Crescent City at the time Haleigh went missing.
 
raisincharlie said:
For Floridians and reptiles, that is cold.

I disagree that Joe visited through the years for weeks at a time - there is absolutely nothing that verifies that. Chelsea didn't even know him - and she has been part of the family for a few years.

Tommy lived at 216 Tyler with his wife and kids.

Misty lived at 202 Green Lane.

Hank Sr. and Lisa Croslin lived at 130 Magnolia at the time Haleigh went missing.

Timmy and Chelsea lived in Pomona Park near Crescent City at the time Haleigh went missing.
Click to expand...

Hey Charlie,

Not really. Alligators have always been in rivers, lakes, ponds in Florida and they are there year round.

They just don't disappear and they don't hibernate either like some seem to think they do. They can however feed off of their own body fat and in cooler weather they stay closer to the shoreline. If something gets their attention they will investigate it immediately since they really arent in hibernation.

American Alligator
Found in freshwater throughout the state. It has a large (10-19') black body with a broad, rounded snout and lives an average of 40 years. It has excellent eyesight even at night. Its jaws hold 70-80 pointed teeth. If a tooth is lost, a new one grows in its place. It feeds on fish, turtles, water birds, snakes, frogs, and small mammals. The alligator swims by tucking its legs against its body and sweeping its tail from side to side. It is capable of sudden bursts of speed in the water and on land.

Active during warmer months, alligators may stay secluded underwater or in shoreline dens during colder months. If resting, they can stay underwater for an hour or even several hours.

They tend to wander during droughts and mating season. Hunted almost to extinction, alligator hunting was banned in the early 1960's, and is now strictly regulated. Alligator farming now accounts for most of the hides and meat on the market. Alligators bellow, loudly! Apparently gators bellow for the sheer sake of bellowing -- it hasn't been linked to hostile or mating behavior. Just before a male bellows, he performs a "water dance", vibrating his whole torso. At the same time, he issues low notes, too low to be heard by humans, that can be heard by other alligators at long distances. Females bellow but not as loudly. Females grunt to call their young. All alligators hiss.

http://www.florida-outdoors.com/wwphoto.htm
 
Maven2379 said:
Maybe not for you, but for reptiles it is!
Click to expand...

I respectfully don't agree. The alligator has acclimated itself to the weather in Florida for as long as there has been a Florida and much longer than then.

They do not hibernate. In the cooler months (and cooler months in Florida can be all the way into the 30s at least or lower) they stay close to the shoreline. The shoreline right where the boat ramp would be located. With it being in the 60s it would be much warmer than the prior months had been.

In fact in cooler months they stay by the shoreline and when it warms up they get further out in the deep waters.

IMO
 
oceanblueeyes said:
I respectfully don't agree. The alligator has acclimated itself to the weather in Florida for as long as there has been a Florida and much longer than then.

They do not hibernate. In the cooler months (and cooler months in Florida can be all the way into the 30s at least or lower) they stay close to the shoreline. The shoreline right where the boat ramp would be located. With it being in the 60s it would be much warmer than the prior months had been.

In fact in cooler months they stay by the shoreline and when it warms up they get further out in the deep waters.

IMO
Click to expand...

I disagree, but this isn't the place for a discussion of alligators and their nesting and/or feeding habits.

While alligators thrive in our southern climate they are not very active in the colder months and stop feeding when temperatures get below about 70 degrees, they become dormant at around 50 degrees.
 
http://animals.howstuffworks.com/reptiles/alligator5.htm

Alligator Hibernation
When it gets cold in the winter alligators slow down. Below 70 degrees F or so they stop feeding until it warms up again. It's in the above link. I hope this helps.

I'm not sure if this is the right thread to place this in but I'm thinking that she was not placed in the river. I'm not so sure about the cinder blocks and rope either. My ex was a marine mechanic and he also owned boats. He said on smaller boats when people don't have a lot of money that they'll use cinder blocks and the yellow nylon ropes to make anchors. When there done for the day instead of hauling the heaving blocks back on board they cut them off and leave them in the river. That if you looked near docks and a little further out you'd probably find several of them with ropes still attached.

My thoughts are that if Ron was involved in any way she'd be buried somewhere close to home and it's probably marked with some type of marker. Somewhere that he is familiar with. If it were the others, then she may have been placed in the river.
 
Thank you Kimster!!! :blowkiss:

I think with all the talk about alligators in this case, an alligator thread is appropriate. There has just been so many mentions of alligators from the Ron/Cobra tapes to JVM, I think a thread with facts about alligators is great!!

And ...to keep this post on-topic here's a link I found all about alligators:

http://icwdm.org/handbook/reptiles/Alligators.asp

Alligators are ectothermic — they rely on external sources of heat to maintain body temperature. They are most active at warmer temperatures and prefer 82o to 92o F (28o to 33o C). They stop feeding when ambient temperature drops below 70o F (21oC) and become dormant below 55o F (13oC).
Click to expand...
 
From what I read about alligators here and on my own, an alligator will adapt to the temps, it keeps itself warm if needed and it's not in a hibernated state, but they can live off of their fat if needed in order to keep warm. You would need to know how cold it had been in Fl before this date. Was it cold to the gators or hot to the gators? Enumeration.


http://animals.howstuffworks.com/reptiles/alligator5.htm

JMO
 
I hate to belabor a point, but I have to ring in here on the alligator discussion. Believe me when I tell you that gators do absolutely nothing in winter but breathe, and then just barely. Their bodily functions shut down to a bare minimum. They occasionally creep out from their holes to lie in the sun for awhile, but you can practically use them as stepping stones. They are just that sluggish. (Not that I've ever attempted to do so, mind you. ;))

I couldn't bring myself to listen to the Cobra/Ron tapes, but I finally read the transcripts last night. When I read that part where Ron talks about the dock being "swamped with alligators", I thought surely he's talking about another visit. I can't imagine anyone growing up in central Florida and not knowing that scenario is simply absurd. But as Charlie pointed out, we've seen nothing that indicates Joe had visited the area previously, certainly not in the recent past. My conclusion: Ron was blowing smoke up you know where. He had no interest in any help Cobra might've been able to offer. If he simply disliked Cobra and didn't want him involved, he could've refused to speak with him. Instead, he deliberately led him on the wrong track, just like TN did when she lured him into the woods. Mighty strange behavior for the family of a missing child.

And Papa, ITA. Even in Florida, a damp February night is much too cold for Chef Boyardee on the porch.

Thanks for moving these posts into their own thread, Kimster.
 
Alligators do not feed during the cooler months. Studies in captivity have shown that alligators generally begin to lose their appetite below 27°C (80°F), and stop feeding altogether below 23°C (73°F). They can easily last the winter on their energy reserves.
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/csp_amis.htm

Fifty-seven degrees is waaaaaay below the temperature where alligators lose their appetite. Okay...I'm off the fence. Ron actively tried to frame Joe with his lie.
 
Gators love red herrings, I hear.
 
I am curious as to what the water temp would have been at that time... any suggestions as to where i can look? Surely the water temp was below 68 degrees but I wonder how much colder it was...:croc:
 
Info about humans feeding alligators:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/uw230

This document is WEC203, one of a series of the Department of Wildlife Ecology and Conservation, Florida Cooperative Extension Service, Institute of Food and Agricultural sciences (IFAS), University of Florida. First published: September 2005. Reviewed: September 2008. Please visit the UF IFAS EDIS Web site at http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu for more publications.

How can I stay safe around alligators?

Alligators and Floridians usually have a peaceful coexistence, but there are recorded attacks and occasional fatalities. The key to staying safe is being alert to the possibility of alligators being present. Never feed gators or swim or wade in waters where large alligators are known or likely to occur, especially at dusk or night (when they naturally feed). It is illegal to feed alligators. When humans feed alligators, it causes the alligators to lose their natural fear of humans and to associate humans with food. It doesn't matter if people feed them human-food like marshmallows or throw them fish guts when cleaning fish, it's all bad. It changes the alligator's behavior.

Normally, alligators avoid humans, but alligators that have been fed by humans will move toward humans and can become aggressive. Alligators that have been fed by humans are dangerous and should be reported to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Members online

... and 184 more.
Total: 401 (members: 185, guests: 216)

Online statistics

Members online
185
Guests online
216
Total visitors
401
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
608,651
Messages
18,243,049
Members
234,408
Latest member
MorbidxCases
Back
Top