State vs Jason Young 2-17-2012
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Things I thought of after reading all of your Thursday discussion.
I have been wrestling with the idea of an accomplice and not really reconciled that in my mind.
The accomplice largely hinges on the timeline, the Franklin shoe and the crime's brutality conflicting with the rest of it.
But, let me take a swing at something.
A few folks mentioned the franklin shoes being on the pillow and being planned. BUT, what if they weren't. I think I have a scenario that makes it make sense.
JY had to be exhausted and crashing from adrenaline after the blows were delivered. Also, the next part of his plan had to be put in place. Moving MY and opening the closet to get whatever was gotten out of the closet and turning around seeing CY in the room would do it.
This would explain the "daddy did it" that a lot of folks have heard. Particularly if he's standing there in some form of odd outfit, face uncovered, but gloves, long sleeves, etc. It would also explain the franklin shoes being on the pillow. The last thing anyone wants is for a kid to see their parent like that (this defies some logic with the rest of the situation, but folks seem to have settled on the idea he cleaned her up/comforted her to get her to sleep, etc.) on the floor with that much blood, etc. That's your first set of franklin prints. He then is offset for the rest of the crime. I.e. the hushpuppy prints, the leaving things behind (pillow case) because a kid who keeps getting pushed away (similar to what MF deals with in the 911 call) that's that young keeps coming back in. At that point, you've got to get the hell out and paranoia is going to set in. The "what if" someone heard me and called the cops, etc.
The other thing I had thought of relates to the hushpuppies. I have an old pair of shoes I used to use when working in a friends restaurant. Heavy-duty, black slip ons. I put them in my goodwill bag after I stopped working in the restaurant in 2008 or 2007 sometime. They are still sitting in one of the half full "charity bags" in my garage. Last night, I went downstairs and opened the bag. They are right on top. Underneath is a bunch of my ex's stuff from circa the same time period. Now, I've been to goodwill a dozen times since I got divorced, but for some reason, this is always the bag I remember after I've dropped off whatever else and I promise myself to just put in the back of my car and do it the next time. I never do it. I didn't really realize what was in it until I opened it up and went through it.
The flip side of what I described above is that shoes could have been sitting in the garage and someone committing this murder could have put it on and went back trying to figure out what to do. (JY or whomever else is conjured up in the crystal ball we are all using) If your shoes are soaked in blood, you aren't going to be real picky about what you put on. Anyone know if the Franklin shoes or the hushpuppy shoes were a set or just one of each. I.E. a right hushpuppy and a left franklin? I can't remember.
Another thought on the Franklin shoe. It's a long-shot. But, it kind of ties in. The folks in this circle we're watching. Have they ever been shown to have any substance issues? Pills, powder, etc? Other than the really "normal" immature behavior they seem to have sort of possessed in a perpendicular to MY kind of way? Because I think of folks I know who have dealt various forms of pharma-street over the years. I remember how clearly they do not look like drug dealers on teevee or in the movies. I remember how one guy from college ran around looking like a bum, driving a beater, living in a trailer. If I absolutely had to have somebody that would not tell, and still be a willing accomplice, it would be him. I haven't seen him in years except when he pops up in a mugshot. But, the stuff he's arrested for is never what I knew he did. And he always gets off. Not that these guys are like that. But, he would be unconnected to me. I never called him. I never spoke to him. I never bought from him. I had a buddy who had a buddy who had a buddy who would go to him for weed. I only found out he sold heavier stuff because I asked. I always had the sneaking suspicion he was the one person I had met that had probably at some point seriously maimed and maybe even killed someone.
I wonder if JY knew someone like that.
I have been wrestling with the idea of an accomplice and not really reconciled that in my mind.
The accomplice largely hinges on the timeline, the Franklin shoe and the crime's brutality conflicting with the rest of it.
But, let me take a swing at something.
A few folks mentioned the franklin shoes being on the pillow and being planned. BUT, what if they weren't. I think I have a scenario that makes it make sense.
JY had to be exhausted and crashing from adrenaline after the blows were delivered. Also, the next part of his plan had to be put in place. Moving MY and opening the closet to get whatever was gotten out of the closet and turning around seeing CY in the room would do it.
This would explain the "daddy did it" that a lot of folks have heard. Particularly if he's standing there in some form of odd outfit, face uncovered, but gloves, long sleeves, etc. It would also explain the franklin shoes being on the pillow. The last thing anyone wants is for a kid to see their parent like that (this defies some logic with the rest of the situation, but folks seem to have settled on the idea he cleaned her up/comforted her to get her to sleep, etc.) on the floor with that much blood, etc. That's your first set of franklin prints. He then is offset for the rest of the crime. I.e. the hushpuppy prints, the leaving things behind (pillow case) because a kid who keeps getting pushed away (similar to what MF deals with in the 911 call) that's that young keeps coming back in. At that point, you've got to get the hell out and paranoia is going to set in. The "what if" someone heard me and called the cops, etc.
The other thing I had thought of relates to the hushpuppies. I have an old pair of shoes I used to use when working in a friends restaurant. Heavy-duty, black slip ons. I put them in my goodwill bag after I stopped working in the restaurant in 2008 or 2007 sometime. They are still sitting in one of the half full "charity bags" in my garage. Last night, I went downstairs and opened the bag. They are right on top. Underneath is a bunch of my ex's stuff from circa the same time period. Now, I've been to goodwill a dozen times since I got divorced, but for some reason, this is always the bag I remember after I've dropped off whatever else and I promise myself to just put in the back of my car and do it the next time. I never do it. I didn't really realize what was in it until I opened it up and went through it.
The flip side of what I described above is that shoes could have been sitting in the garage and someone committing this murder could have put it on and went back trying to figure out what to do. (JY or whomever else is conjured up in the crystal ball we are all using) If your shoes are soaked in blood, you aren't going to be real picky about what you put on. Anyone know if the Franklin shoes or the hushpuppy shoes were a set or just one of each. I.E. a right hushpuppy and a left franklin? I can't remember.
Another thought on the Franklin shoe. It's a long-shot. But, it kind of ties in. The folks in this circle we're watching. Have they ever been shown to have any substance issues? Pills, powder, etc? Other than the really "normal" immature behavior they seem to have sort of possessed in a perpendicular to MY kind of way? Because I think of folks I know who have dealt various forms of pharma-street over the years. I remember how clearly they do not look like drug dealers on teevee or in the movies. I remember how one guy from college ran around looking like a bum, driving a beater, living in a trailer. If I absolutely had to have somebody that would not tell, and still be a willing accomplice, it would be him. I haven't seen him in years except when he pops up in a mugshot. But, the stuff he's arrested for is never what I knew he did. And he always gets off. Not that these guys are like that. But, he would be unconnected to me. I never called him. I never spoke to him. I never bought from him. I had a buddy who had a buddy who had a buddy who would go to him for weed. I only found out he sold heavier stuff because I asked. I always had the sneaking suspicion he was the one person I had met that had probably at some point seriously maimed and maybe even killed someone.
I wonder if JY knew someone like that.
octobermoon
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gritguy
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The accomplice thing bothers me. However, I think his hotel behavior, shoes at the scene, and post crime behavior say he was there to me. I think he had gloves on and the too small shoes b/c those would be the only things leaving a trace possibly. He changed out and wanted to leave, HP's on, and had to go recover CY from the scene (maybe not for the first time) and so left tracks of the HP he hadn't planned to leave.
No telling if he (or whoever) was wearing those shoes when the killer left the 2nd floor.
No telling if he (or whoever) was wearing those shoes when the killer left the 2nd floor.
RaleighNC
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Never mind - I was wondering if there was a Dollar General or Family Dollar located right next to the Cracker Barrel where he stopped for food that night - none that I could find.
If he bought shoes for a throwaway - he'd get cheap ones.... But it does not appear that there was an easy opportunity to grab any when walking out of CB....
If he bought shoes for a throwaway - he'd get cheap ones.... But it does not appear that there was an easy opportunity to grab any when walking out of CB....
Bottle Cap
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There was some discussion in the previous thread about planning. I have a bit of experience with the sort of personality a JY type has. IMO, a lot of what they do starts out as fantasy. The fling with MM might be an example - on getting to know her, he might have fantasized about devastating her with his good looks and charm (I know, I know). At some point, a conscious decision is make to turn the fantasy into a reality. The lure of it gets the better of him.
He's narcissistic, and therefore lives in a world (his own mind) in which he is powerful, handsome, superior, emminently charming, entitled, untouchable, special. His behavior reflects this. His history is full of embarassing, idiotic antics, and he seems never to cotton on to how its perceived by others.
So with a murder. It pops into his head as a fantasy, one of those in which he's all powerful and gets what he wants every time. One of those in which he gets away with everything sneaky he attempts. So it rolls around in there, and gradually, gradually, a notion starts to form. I could do this when_______. If I were going to do this, I would ________. I'd also have to think about _________. As an idle fantasy, no harm in fantasizing.
Last day, when AF isn't going to be a problem, bam. Spots an opportunity, already has ideas in place about who/what/where/when from fantasizing about it, kicks himself into high gear to make fantasy a reality. Its a stretch to make the fantasy reality, but not a leap, because its been rolling around in his head as an all-powerful get-what-I-want fantasy for some time.
He's narcissistic, and therefore lives in a world (his own mind) in which he is powerful, handsome, superior, emminently charming, entitled, untouchable, special. His behavior reflects this. His history is full of embarassing, idiotic antics, and he seems never to cotton on to how its perceived by others.
So with a murder. It pops into his head as a fantasy, one of those in which he's all powerful and gets what he wants every time. One of those in which he gets away with everything sneaky he attempts. So it rolls around in there, and gradually, gradually, a notion starts to form. I could do this when_______. If I were going to do this, I would ________. I'd also have to think about _________. As an idle fantasy, no harm in fantasizing.
Last day, when AF isn't going to be a problem, bam. Spots an opportunity, already has ideas in place about who/what/where/when from fantasizing about it, kicks himself into high gear to make fantasy a reality. Its a stretch to make the fantasy reality, but not a leap, because its been rolling around in his head as an all-powerful get-what-I-want fantasy for some time.
Just the Fax
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Bothers me too.
The HP prints 'after the fact' theory is hard to accept, because there are 2X the number vs size 10 and several are on a pillow , overlapping (suggests to me they were left during the beating).
Could those franklins been in the closet? I have accidently bought the wrong shoe size and never returned them. I think thats why he had blisters on his feet. He didnt mean to leave the hushpuppies print. It looks like he had the hushpuppy shoes on in the hotel lobby. moo
gritguy
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I will say even if there was someone else was there, they were there with him. It's just awful to think someone would have helped with that.
I think the problem is once you go down that road of putting another adult in the house, then all sorts of questions start to arise (who was the one that actually killed her, who did what, how did the accomplice get to the house, etc..)
I think he was alone. two people and hardly any evidence? Thats lucky. moo
RaleighNC
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Due to the very small numbers of size 10 prints - I simply can't get my head around an accomplice. I don't think he'd be able to find someone who would be able to keep this secret and no money appears to be missing to hire a professional.
However - the gas DOES bother me. If he had topped off with cash near the Hampton upon his arrival - he would have been able to get back and forth without any stopping. Then - he could get gas in the AM as part of his morning meeting prep. Paying with cash is a huge risk. It's EASY to pay with a CC - and even some gas stations that appear CLOSED will still work with a CC. Cash requires face to face interaction with a real person - a witness. Regardless if he was nasty - it's not a busy time of night (mid - 6 AM) esp along this route (he'd have been better off stopping at a truck stop off I-40...) he's potentially memorable.
If he bought shoes as a way to introduce reasonable doubt - getting gas during normal hours or at busier places I think would have been thought out. It's the one thing that doesn't make sense to me.
However - at the same time, I believe Gracie's interaction with him - as his demeanor fits someone not happy with having to stop, etc. and potentially coming down off a murderous rampage.
However - the gas DOES bother me. If he had topped off with cash near the Hampton upon his arrival - he would have been able to get back and forth without any stopping. Then - he could get gas in the AM as part of his morning meeting prep. Paying with cash is a huge risk. It's EASY to pay with a CC - and even some gas stations that appear CLOSED will still work with a CC. Cash requires face to face interaction with a real person - a witness. Regardless if he was nasty - it's not a busy time of night (mid - 6 AM) esp along this route (he'd have been better off stopping at a truck stop off I-40...) he's potentially memorable.
If he bought shoes as a way to introduce reasonable doubt - getting gas during normal hours or at busier places I think would have been thought out. It's the one thing that doesn't make sense to me.
However - at the same time, I believe Gracie's interaction with him - as his demeanor fits someone not happy with having to stop, etc. and potentially coming down off a murderous rampage.
Just the Fax
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size 12- 13 brand name shoes.
No way he would have had size 10 Franklin shoes in his closet..imo
No way he would have had size 10 Franklin shoes in his closet..imo
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