The jury's questions and Jodi's answers- no discussion
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KMouse
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March 6, 2013
Jury questions for Jodi Arias
--Starts with the judge asking the lawyers to approach for a sidebar.
--Court is delayed due to technical difficulty, no microphones working.
--Judge is reading the preliminary jury instructions about jury questions and how they are dealt with.
--Questions will be asked in the order they were submitted
1) did mr. alexander pay for a majory of your trips?
Answer: we split it. Sometimes he paid and I paid him back and other times I paid and he paid me back.
2) if he did pay was that a factor in questioning his choices, eg. introduction to others and sleeping arrangements?
Answer: TA created the itineraries (missed the rest)
3) was it his money, his choices? Answer: it was his choices on the church history trips, the choices were mutual as far as 1000 places to see, sometimes it was his money and I would pay him back.
4) why did you put the camera in the washer?
Answer: I don't have memory of that and don't know why I did it.
5) did you ever take pictures of yourself after he hit you?
Answer: no I did not
6) why did you call the cops on your ex who shook you but you never called the cops on Travis?
Answer: it was a very negative experience (with the ex) and then years and years later as far as June 4th there were no phones upstairs and I knew TA would make up for it if I called.
7) why would you continue to sleep with TA after you learned of his child
issues?
Answer: that was a side of Travis that he wated to even exist. I was under the impresseion when he was able to sleep with a woman he felt more normal as a man. I had seen so many good qualities. This incident was...(missed all of it)
8) why didn't you just change your gmail password?
Answer: it didn't really become a problem right away and after I moved it did become a problem and I eventually did change my password. we had a conversation on May 22, 2008 that we weren't going to do that anymore.
9) did Travis' closet doors have locks on them? Answer: I don't remember them having any locks. Question: if "no" how did you have time to get the gun down if he was right behind you.
Answer: I don't know if he was right behind me or not I just had the sense he was chasing me.
10) did you record other phone sex conversations?
Answer: yes
11) Ryan Burns testified that he met you at a PPL convention in April 2008 and you had blonde hair? How is that possible?
Answer: Ryan Burns is mistaken about the date.
12) why did you feel so uncomfortable with anal sex with Travis when you had previously tried it?
Answer: in previous relationships it was something we tried once or twice. with Travis that was his preference and that is why I got the KY, it made it less uncomfortable.
13) you took pictures of the shirt and shorts, did you take pictures of the spiderman underwear? Answer: I didn't take pictures because it was embarassing. I didn't want people to know it was a problem of his.
14) you told DB you wanted to wait until marriage to have sex, if that were the case why did you have sex with Travis?
Answer: My understanding at the time, the missionaries didn't overly preach about chastity, Travis and I had intimate conversations, vaginal sex is off limits and everything else is not frowned upon (paraphrasing)
15) Travis stated in the phone sex, he did not like Spiderman why did he send you Spiderman underwear?
Answer: I don't know why they were spiderman, the year prior, there was a child he was close with that really liked spiderman, Martinez objects
16) why would you tell Leslie you wanted your children to play with Travis' if you felt T was into younger children?
Answer: I wanted to edify Travis only in good ways. Statement was made on June 5th. I wanted him to be ????
17) if you had bruises, why is it that no one else said anything to you about the bruises.
Answer: there was a PPL associate that made a joke about it, we were at a business briefing, I felt like I got beet red, thought the makeup was covering them. I was putting more makeup on.
18) if you were so nearsighted, how were you able to drive?
Answer: I never had a problem driving, I could see where I was going on the freeway but had to get closer to see signs. in 2010 I put on glases and everything was sharp.
19) in Travis' text to Jodi, exhibit 44, he talks about the mysterious man that wrote to you, who is this man?
Answer: steve carroll, he wrote me a very nice email whichwent to my gmail account, I never met steve,
20) did T think it was someone you lied about? Answer: I think he did
21) you took a photo of the pink t-shirt and undies
Answer: they were taken in July I knew my time was winding down and by that point I heard several rumours that said I was obsessed. if somebody finds these it looks strange, they were sentimental to me, they were special.
22) you testified that Travis gave you the book of Mormon did you read it thoroughly?
Answer:I attempted to read one chapter a day and finished it about 8 months later. I started in January.
23) does the book of Mormon go into detail about the vow of chastity? Answer: doesn't go into detail. uses terms such as whoredom and being unclean.
24) who intitiated contact after the vaious break ups, start with Bobby.
Answer: with Bobby we broke up and got together so many times it would be hard to remember. one time I was packing and driving away, he lived in Montague, small town, he had nothing, no food no money, I sort of initiated...I bought groceries and left them at the door. he called me as he knew it was me.
Jury questions for Jodi Arias
--Starts with the judge asking the lawyers to approach for a sidebar.
--Court is delayed due to technical difficulty, no microphones working.
--Judge is reading the preliminary jury instructions about jury questions and how they are dealt with.
--Questions will be asked in the order they were submitted
1) did mr. alexander pay for a majory of your trips?
Answer: we split it. Sometimes he paid and I paid him back and other times I paid and he paid me back.
2) if he did pay was that a factor in questioning his choices, eg. introduction to others and sleeping arrangements?
Answer: TA created the itineraries (missed the rest)
3) was it his money, his choices? Answer: it was his choices on the church history trips, the choices were mutual as far as 1000 places to see, sometimes it was his money and I would pay him back.
4) why did you put the camera in the washer?
Answer: I don't have memory of that and don't know why I did it.
5) did you ever take pictures of yourself after he hit you?
Answer: no I did not
6) why did you call the cops on your ex who shook you but you never called the cops on Travis?
Answer: it was a very negative experience (with the ex) and then years and years later as far as June 4th there were no phones upstairs and I knew TA would make up for it if I called.
7) why would you continue to sleep with TA after you learned of his child
issues? Answer: that was a side of Travis that he wated to even exist. I was under the impresseion when he was able to sleep with a woman he felt more normal as a man. I had seen so many good qualities. This incident was...(missed all of it)
8) why didn't you just change your gmail password?
Answer: it didn't really become a problem right away and after I moved it did become a problem and I eventually did change my password. we had a conversation on May 22, 2008 that we weren't going to do that anymore.
9) did Travis' closet doors have locks on them? Answer: I don't remember them having any locks. Question: if "no" how did you have time to get the gun down if he was right behind you.
Answer: I don't know if he was right behind me or not I just had the sense he was chasing me.
10) did you record other phone sex conversations?
Answer: yes
11) Ryan Burns testified that he met you at a PPL convention in April 2008 and you had blonde hair? How is that possible?
Answer: Ryan Burns is mistaken about the date.
12) why did you feel so uncomfortable with anal sex with Travis when you had previously tried it?
Answer: in previous relationships it was something we tried once or twice. with Travis that was his preference and that is why I got the KY, it made it less uncomfortable.
13) you took pictures of the shirt and shorts, did you take pictures of the spiderman underwear? Answer: I didn't take pictures because it was embarassing. I didn't want people to know it was a problem of his.
14) you told DB you wanted to wait until marriage to have sex, if that were the case why did you have sex with Travis?
Answer: My understanding at the time, the missionaries didn't overly preach about chastity, Travis and I had intimate conversations, vaginal sex is off limits and everything else is not frowned upon (paraphrasing)
15) Travis stated in the phone sex, he did not like Spiderman why did he send you Spiderman underwear?
Answer: I don't know why they were spiderman, the year prior, there was a child he was close with that really liked spiderman, Martinez objects
16) why would you tell Leslie you wanted your children to play with Travis' if you felt T was into younger children?
Answer: I wanted to edify Travis only in good ways. Statement was made on June 5th. I wanted him to be ????
17) if you had bruises, why is it that no one else said anything to you about the bruises.
Answer: there was a PPL associate that made a joke about it, we were at a business briefing, I felt like I got beet red, thought the makeup was covering them. I was putting more makeup on.
18) if you were so nearsighted, how were you able to drive?
Answer: I never had a problem driving, I could see where I was going on the freeway but had to get closer to see signs. in 2010 I put on glases and everything was sharp.
19) in Travis' text to Jodi, exhibit 44, he talks about the mysterious man that wrote to you, who is this man?
Answer: steve carroll, he wrote me a very nice email whichwent to my gmail account, I never met steve,
20) did T think it was someone you lied about? Answer: I think he did
21) you took a photo of the pink t-shirt and undies
Answer: they were taken in July I knew my time was winding down and by that point I heard several rumours that said I was obsessed. if somebody finds these it looks strange, they were sentimental to me, they were special.
22) you testified that Travis gave you the book of Mormon did you read it thoroughly?
Answer:I attempted to read one chapter a day and finished it about 8 months later. I started in January.
23) does the book of Mormon go into detail about the vow of chastity? Answer: doesn't go into detail. uses terms such as whoredom and being unclean.
24) who intitiated contact after the vaious break ups, start with Bobby.
Answer: with Bobby we broke up and got together so many times it would be hard to remember. one time I was packing and driving away, he lived in Montague, small town, he had nothing, no food no money, I sort of initiated...I bought groceries and left them at the door. he called me as he knew it was me.
Here are some of the questions (some paraphrased) so far:
Q: Did he pay for the trips? If so, was his paying a factor in them?
A: No he didn't pay we split 50/50, sometimes he would pay and I'd pay back with housework, other times I'd pay and he'd pay me back
Q: Were the trips his money, his choice (this is how it was asked)?
A: He made the iterneries, we split costs, he chose places on Mormon historical trip, 1000 places to see before you die were mutual choice
Q: Why did you put the camera in the washer?
A: I don't remember
Q: Did you ever take pictures of yourself after he hit you?
A: No
Q: Why didn't you call the cops when TA hit you, but you did when another boyfriend did?
A: Didn't work that time, made last boyfriend angry, TA made up for his anger after, blah, blah, blah
Q: Why did you keep sleeping with TA after you discovered the child
issues?A: Neither of us wanted to acknowledge it and I thought us sleeping together would prevent him from pursuing that avenue
Q: Why didn't you just change your gmail password if you didn't want him reading it?
A: Did change it in May 2008???
Q: Did the closet have locks? If not, how did you have to get the gun?
A: Didn't catch this...
Q: Why did you have issues with anal sex with TA when you did it before with other boyfriends?
A: Didn't catch this...
Q: Why did you take pictures of the t-shirt and shorts that say TA's but not the spiderman underwear?
A: Ashamed of the underwear and didn't want to memorialize them
Q: Why did you abstain with Darryl but not TA?
A: Anal and oral okay per TA
Q: TA says he doesn't like spiderman in the phone conversation, so why would he buy you spiderman underwear?
A: He used to like spiderman, he knew a child a year before that really like spiderman (JM OBJECTION - SUSTAINED)
Q: Why did you tell Leslie you wanted your's and TA's kids to play together after you killed TA?
A: somthing about edifying him again Didn't catch all of this...
Q: If you had visible bruises after April 08 incident why didn't anyone say anything?
A: Actually someone at a PPL event said something jokingly but TA was there and I was embarassed. I covered it more with very opaque makeup after that to cover it.
Q: If you're nearsighted, why are you able to drive without glasses?
A: I didn't realize I had issues with my vision until 2010 when I looked through someone elses glasses for fun and I could see so much better. I didn't know my vision wasn't good until then
Q: Why did you take the photo of the t-shirt and shorts so late?
A: I knew my time was nearing to go to jail and didn't want people to think I was obsessed with him, but I wanted to memorialize them so I took a picture then threw them away.
Q: After TA gave you the Book of Mormon at Starbucks did you read it thoroughly?
A: Yes, read a chapter each week took 8 months
Q: Does the Book of Mormon go into detail on the Law of Chastity?
A: It talks about it, but not in detail
KMouse
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24) who intitiated contact after the vaious break ups, with Bobby, Matt, Daryl. Start with Bobby. with Bobby we broke up and got together so many times it would be hard to remember. one time I was packing and driving away, he lived in Montague, small town, he had nothing, no food no money, I sort of initiated...I bought groceries and left them at the door. he called me as he knew it was me. We never really stopped contacting each other until we stopped for good. I remember when we did stop for good he sent me
With Matt, we broke up after I sort of confronted him, I went to his Dad's house, he was on the phone, we went into my car
I wrote out a long email and would know where my heart was and he would know where he erred. It wasn't like initiating contact again. I don't remember how it came about when he came down to Ventana with me. he still needed a job and Daryl hired him.
As far as Daryl, there was no separation as we had seperate bedrooms, I had two jobs so we didn't see each other much...then he moved away in early December. we contacted each other about bills. I didn't have money. I stopped by to visit his son in 2008.
As far as Travis we broke up on the phone Juen 29, 2007. He called me the next day and we had another conversation and we had a converation that turned sexual.
25) How far is crater lake from ashland?
26) How dar is Medford from Crater lake?
27) How far is Medford from Ashland? 10-15 min
28) did you know Victor's family? A: I went to Costa Rica on an exange program. Second time???
29) please explain the events again that led up to your dad slapping you. A: I snuck out of the house, we were moving soon to Yreka, I was upset. I snuck out of the house and my parents found out and I went to sleep. My Dad woke me up and when I said I don't know he slapped me.
30) what is your relationship with your mother like today? complicated and strained. we rub each other the wrong way all day long. Deep love.
31) what is your relationship with your father like today? not incredibly close, I have unconditional love, I find it better when we interact less. I don't know if it's because our personalities don't jive.
32) would it be possible for Jodi to run through the attack from June 4, 2008 using the floor plan. <Jodi is given the floor plan on the screen and goes through the attack> Started with Travis in the shower, I was facing him the shower, back and forth we would check the photos, some got deleted, then we crouched and tried a few different positions, we were deleting and the camera slipped and I tried to catch it, it bounced and rolled onto the mat and then the tile. He got very angry, stepped out of the shower and lifted me up from the crouched position and body slammed me, I rolled and ran down the hallway, I rant into the closet and slammed the door, on the left side of the seat, I instead went for the gun, right about then he was opening the door, I grabbed the gun, I ran into the bathroom, I pointed the gun at him and he lunged at me around the time the gun went off and I didn't mean for the gun to go off. He fell kind of on top of me but to my right he was grabbing at my clothes. I don't know where the gun was, I dropped it. I got away and he threatened my life. I don't remember anything after that.
33) re: the 9mm gun that you purchased on July 1, 2008. Who was going on the camping trip? A: two dishwashers from Purple Plum, Calvin and another guy I don't remember his name, and a few other people. I think there were other women going but I don't know.
34) why were you planning on going if you were scared? A: I wasn't scared, just cautious I was trying to be cautious. I had seen a new sign of what a man could do.
35) were you paid for the interview with 48 hours? A: no
36) were you paid for the interview with Inside Edition? A: no
With Matt, we broke up after I sort of confronted him, I went to his Dad's house, he was on the phone, we went into my car
I wrote out a long email and would know where my heart was and he would know where he erred. It wasn't like initiating contact again. I don't remember how it came about when he came down to Ventana with me. he still needed a job and Daryl hired him.
As far as Daryl, there was no separation as we had seperate bedrooms, I had two jobs so we didn't see each other much...then he moved away in early December. we contacted each other about bills. I didn't have money. I stopped by to visit his son in 2008.
As far as Travis we broke up on the phone Juen 29, 2007. He called me the next day and we had another conversation and we had a converation that turned sexual.
25) How far is crater lake from ashland?
26) How dar is Medford from Crater lake?
27) How far is Medford from Ashland? 10-15 min
28) did you know Victor's family? A: I went to Costa Rica on an exange program. Second time???
29) please explain the events again that led up to your dad slapping you. A: I snuck out of the house, we were moving soon to Yreka, I was upset. I snuck out of the house and my parents found out and I went to sleep. My Dad woke me up and when I said I don't know he slapped me.
30) what is your relationship with your mother like today? complicated and strained. we rub each other the wrong way all day long. Deep love.
31) what is your relationship with your father like today? not incredibly close, I have unconditional love, I find it better when we interact less. I don't know if it's because our personalities don't jive.
32) would it be possible for Jodi to run through the attack from June 4, 2008 using the floor plan. <Jodi is given the floor plan on the screen and goes through the attack> Started with Travis in the shower, I was facing him the shower, back and forth we would check the photos, some got deleted, then we crouched and tried a few different positions, we were deleting and the camera slipped and I tried to catch it, it bounced and rolled onto the mat and then the tile. He got very angry, stepped out of the shower and lifted me up from the crouched position and body slammed me, I rolled and ran down the hallway, I rant into the closet and slammed the door, on the left side of the seat, I instead went for the gun, right about then he was opening the door, I grabbed the gun, I ran into the bathroom, I pointed the gun at him and he lunged at me around the time the gun went off and I didn't mean for the gun to go off. He fell kind of on top of me but to my right he was grabbing at my clothes. I don't know where the gun was, I dropped it. I got away and he threatened my life. I don't remember anything after that.
33) re: the 9mm gun that you purchased on July 1, 2008. Who was going on the camping trip? A: two dishwashers from Purple Plum, Calvin and another guy I don't remember his name, and a few other people. I think there were other women going but I don't know.
34) why were you planning on going if you were scared? A: I wasn't scared, just cautious I was trying to be cautious. I had seen a new sign of what a man could do.
35) were you paid for the interview with 48 hours? A: no
36) were you paid for the interview with Inside Edition? A: no
Here is the question list w no answers:
1) did Mr. Alexander pay for a majority of your trips? If he did pay was that a factor in your choices for example introduction to others and sleeping arrangements?
2) why did you put the camera in the washer?
3) did you ever take pictures of yourself after he hit you?
4) why did you call the cops on your ex when he shook you but you never called the cops on Travis?
5) why would you continue to sleep with Travis after you learned of his child issues?
6) why didn't you just change your gmail password so Travis could not get into it anymore?
7) did Travis' closet doors have locks in them? If no, how did you have time to get the gun down If he was chasing after you?
8) did you ever record other phone sex conversations?
9) Ryan burns testified that he met you at a ppl event in April 2008 and you had blonde hair. How is that possible if you dyed it in March 2008?
10) why did you feel so uncomfortable about anal sex with Travis when you had previously tried it?
11) you took pictures of the shirt and shorts. Did you take pictures of the Spider-Man underwear? If no, why not?
12) you told Darryl you wanted to abstain from sex until you were married. If so, why did you have sex with Travis?
13) Travis stated on the phone sex conversation that he didn't like Spider-Man. Why did he but you Spider-Man underwear if he did not like that character?
14) why would you tell Leslie you wanted your kids to play with Travis' kids if you knew he was into younger children?
15) if you had bruises that were visible after the April 2008 incident why did nobody else said anything to you about those bruises?
16) if you were so near sighted how were you able to drive?
17) in Travis' text to Jodi exhibit 444 he talks about the mysterious man you've never seen before who wrote for you. Who is this man and why is he bringing it up? Did Travis think it was someone you lied about?
18) you took a picture of the t shirt and pink shorts but not the boys underwear. Why were the pictures taken so much later?
19) you testified that Travis gave you the book if Mormon at Starbucks. Did you read it? If so when?
20) does the Book of Mormon go into detail regarding the law of chastity?
21) who initiated contact after the various breakups: Bobby, Matt, Darryl and Travis. start with Bobby.
22) how far is Crater Lake from Ashland? How far is Medford from Crater Lake? How far is Medford from Ashland?
23) how did you know Victor Arias' family?
24) please explain the events again that led up to your dad slapping you during the incident that you described earlier?
25) what is your relationship w your father like today?
26) would it be possible to have Jodi run through the attack on 6-4-08 using the floor plan exhibit 249?
27) regarding the 9mm gun purchased on July 1 2008, you mentioned a camping trip as one of the reasons for the purchase. Who was going on that trip?
28) why were you planning on going if you were scared?
29) were you paid for the interview with 48 hours?
30) were you paid for the interview with inside edition?
31) in an interview w detective Flores, exhibit 503, you talk to him about taking photos of Travis while he was shaving. You stated "he must have liked it because he used it on his myspace page." Can you explain what he used?
32) you said you tried to call Matt and Darryl about your change in plans regarding going to Mesa but said they did not answer. Why didn't you just leave a message or text them?
33) you testified that you reported you cell phone lost in may of 2008. When and where was it found?
34) have you take long trips by yourself in the past, such as the in from California to Arizona to Utah in June of 2008?
35) how often did you take such trips?
36) during the trips you took, did you take extra gas cans with you?
37) of you took has cans with you where did you get them?
38) during your testimony you mentioned Travis had hit your car once. Can you tell us about that incident?
39) why did you confront Travis after seeing him with another woman through his backyard window if it wasn't because of jealousy?
40) if you simply wanted to know where you stood because he was courting you back, why were you so upset that you needed to call your father about the incident the next day?
41) you mentioned an earlier failed attempt using rope during a sexual encounter. Can you tell us what happened that day, when this occurred and how Travis handled the failure?
42) did Travis' dog usually bark when someone came into the house?
43) did the dog usually bark with loud unexplained noises,?
44) why would you continue to stay with someone who had sex w you while you were sleeping?
45) when did you find out Travis had a gun?
46) to your knowledge did police ever find your grandfathers gun that was stolen?
47) why did you place Travis' body back in the shower?
48) do you know what time you left Travis house on June 4 2008?
49) What happened to the clothes you were wearing on June 4 2008?
50) you say Travis had attacked you previously but would apologize to you after he did it. So why was the June 4 2008 incident different?
51) you and Travis continued to talk on the phone after you moved back to yreka, including phone sex. Would it be fair to say you were upset he was taking another woman to cancun?
52) why did you send his grandmother flowers?
53) why did you take the rope and gun with you?
54) did you lock Travis' bedroom door when you left on June 4 2008?
55) did you try and clean up the scene after you left on June 4 2008?
56) if you climbed on the shelf to grab the gun in a hurry, how is it that nothing is disorganized on Travis' closet?
57) if you shot Travis first, how did the casing land on blood?
58) after you shot Travis, why not run out of the house to get away?
59) why didn't you call 911?
60) if Travis attacked you on June 4 why not just tell police the truth from the start?
61) were you kneeling when you dropped the camera?
62) when Travis stepped out if the shower to attack you was he wet? If so did he slip at all on the tile in the bathroom or hallway?
63) when entering the closet why did t you just open the door closest to you?
64) do you know how tall the ceiling in Travis' closet was?
65) was the gun in a case or just laying on the shelf?
66) why is it that you have no memory of stabbing Travis?
67) whether you had plans to commit suicide or not, why even mention "no jury will ever convict me, mark my words, because I am innocent" in the interview?
68) in your interviews you gave on tv, were you forced to answer all of the questions they asked you?
69) you have pictures of your other finger injuries with time stamps. Do you have a picture of your [left ring] finger injury with a timestamp?
70) do you have pictures of you wearing a finger splint?
71) did anyone see you wearing a finger splint?
72) when did you realize that you had memory loss? The approximate date.
73) did you have an attorney prior to the interview w CBS?
74) you said you got the 2 gas cans so you could fill up in Nevada or Utah where gas was cheaper than California. Why did you fill up in Pasadena?
75) in all of the three hour church sessions, family home evenings, missionary discussions and other church events, you were never told or under the impression that other forms of intercourse, anal or oral, were forbidden?
76) did you know Travis did not like John Dixon prior to your date w John Dixon?
77) why were you willing to get involved w two men at the same time?
78) when you were asked about the video you made with Travis having sex on june 4 2008 you said you used your camera but later when you were asked about your camera you said the camera stayed in the car all day. Which of these 2 is true?
79) when you realized that you did not connect like you had expected, why did you continue to speak to Travis?
80) what is your understanding of the word ""?
81) why did you share housing with Matt at the time you were in a relationship w Travis?
82) were there any girls living there that you could've roomed with?
83) how could you be a sister to Matt, a man you'd had sex with in the past?
84) why didn't you read the Book of Mormon to see what you were and weren't allowed to do?
85) why did you ask Travis about everything you did? (Question skipped bc defendant didn't understand)
86) why did you start a relationship with Ryan Burns when you said earlier "when I am with one guy I don't see other guys"?
87) why is it you can't remember when Travis lent you money, but you remember the exact amount you lent him all three times?
88) why did you think that the incident that happened on June 4 2008 was any different than the ones before, such that you had to kill him to protect yourself?
89) you mentioned injuries that would not have been seen by others when you were in Utah in June of 2008. Can you go into detail as to where they were and how you received them?
90) when you injured yourself at casa Roma's rotating glasses, did your supervisor have you fill out any firms to document the injury for workers compensation purposes?
91) who was the main factor in your decision to move from Big Sur/palm desert to Mesa-Rachel or Travis?
92) you testified that you heard his footsteps. If you weren't sure why didn't you just run downstairs and out the door?
93) why would you take the time to delete the photos off of the camera after you killed Travis?
94) you stated you remember dropping the knife and hearing it hit the tile. What happened to the knife after that?
95) if your phone died while at Travis', why not use a wall charger to charge your phone before you got on the road?
96) in your email to Travis after June 4 of 2008, you told him you would sleep in his bed while he was in cancun. Did you ever sleep in his bed when he wasn't there?
97) how is it that you are so calm on the television interviews?
98) you stated in the 48 hours interview that Travis' family deserved to know the truth. If you really believed that why didn't you confess then?
99) if Travis wanted the phone sex conversations recorded why didn't he record them?
100) if you didn't want to be tied up to a tree why did you go and look for a place to do that?
101) if you dropped the camera on the bathmat, how is it that it rolled all the way in front of the bathtub?
102) on the phone sex tape when Travis was talking about taking photos and video was that all part of his fantasy?
103) did you ever voice any concern to Travis about being uncomfortable with any of his sexual fantasies?
104) why didn't you call Ryan and tell him you were going to Arizona when you decided you were going to Arizona?
105) you testified to many times where you performed sexual favors with Travis to keep him pleased and happy. Are you saying you never got pleasure out of sex w Travis?
106) why would you continue to carry around your journals with you if you thought it was possible others like Travis might find them and read them?
107) why were the laws of attraction so important to follow but the law if chastity was not?
108) do the laws if attraction also apply to recording phone sex conversations?
109) you stated there were times that Travis made you tear out pages where you had written negative things about him. Right before that you stated you would never write negative things about Travis in your journal. Which is correct?
110) can we see other examples of when you called men you did not have romantic interest in "hottie biscotti"? Are there texts, IMs, or emails?
111) if you weren't going to marry Travis because of the January 21 and 22 2008 events, why stay with him at all?
112) do you feel the guys in your life cheated on you because you were controlling?
113) were you mad at Travis while you were stabbing him?
114) how is it that you remember so many of your sexual encounters including your ex boyfriends but you don't remember stabbing Travis or dragging his body?
115) during cross examination you were asked if you were crying when you stabbed Travis and you said no. How would you know if you had a memory gap at that time?
116) you said you bought a gun to commit suicide but never ended up doing so. What stopped you from doing so?
117) you stated you wouldn't want kids with Travis because you would be worried about them. Why then did you tell Leslie you couldn't wait for your kids and Travis' kids to play together at future ppl events?
118) a lot of your answers to the questions you were asked made it seem like you put Travis' feelings and priorities before your own. If that were true why didn't you call for help after you shot Travis?
119) why did you decide to tell the truth two years after the killing?
120) what made you change you mind and tell everyone about Travis' secret-the child picture?
121) you said you were sick to your stomach when you saw Travis with child pictures, so why did you sleep with him again?
122) would you classify your relationship with Travis Alexander as a love/hate relationship?
123) on June 4 2008 after you got up and ran toward the bathroom closet is it possible that Travis picked up the camera and moved it? Could that also explain the delay in his arrival and his anger at the closet door threshold?
124) given that there are guiding principles such as the law of attraction and passing down journals to future generations do you feel the Mormon church encourages burying the truth about issues that may be considered embarrassing?
125) can you give a few examples of what might be considered negative other than those already discussed?
126) how do you determine when you will tell the truth and when you will not tell the truth? What are the determining factors?
127) when did you find Travis' gun? Was it kept loaded in the closet?
128) today, March 5 2013, you stated before lunch that you think you filled the car up first. If you did have the third gas can, as we saw in several hypothetical situations after lunch, do you see it possible to put 8.301 gallons if gas in the car exhibit 237.011 and then 9.59 gallons and 2.74 gallons for a total of 12.368 gallons in the remaining 3 gas cans exhibits 237.012 and 237.013
129) you have described that sex was a way for Travis to relieve stress and later testified that sex was a way to relieve anger. Which is true? How do you know that?
130) would a screwdriver be required to take off the license plates
131) did you find it strange that only your license plate was messed with in that parking lot?
132) if you were travelling to a place you had never been before, meaning Utah, why didn't you map out different towns that would have gas or rest stations?
133) did you ever see a doctor for your memory issues?
134) if you were scared if Travis' anger and violence why would you go upstairs when he was banging his head when you knew he was already mad?
135) did Travis ever tell you he kept his gun loaded?
136) if you did not think the gun was loaded why chance grabbing a gun that might not be loaded? Instead of just running outside?
137) you stated that when you walked out of Starbucks you did not notice anything wrong with the car. How us it that the back license plate ended upside down?
138) why did you plan on going to see John Dixon when you were on your way to Utah to see Ryan?
139) how many men are you willing to be involved with at the same time
140) did you ever seek medical help for your mental condition? Have you ever taken medication for your memory issue? Did you ever tell anyone about your condition prior to the killing?
141) you told us you weren't able to make out the license plate leaning up against the curb because you are nearsighted. What is your prescription in each eye?
142) did anyone ever see you shaking?
143) so any of your journal entries discuss you shaking, blacking out or getting scrambled?
144) you claim to have memory lapses or gaps during times of stress or when you're being grilled. How is it you have such specific memories of violence and yelling by Travis such a long time ago if this is the case
1) did Mr. Alexander pay for a majority of your trips? If he did pay was that a factor in your choices for example introduction to others and sleeping arrangements?
2) why did you put the camera in the washer?
3) did you ever take pictures of yourself after he hit you?
4) why did you call the cops on your ex when he shook you but you never called the cops on Travis?
5) why would you continue to sleep with Travis after you learned of his child
issues?6) why didn't you just change your gmail password so Travis could not get into it anymore?
7) did Travis' closet doors have locks in them? If no, how did you have time to get the gun down If he was chasing after you?
8) did you ever record other phone sex conversations?
9) Ryan burns testified that he met you at a ppl event in April 2008 and you had blonde hair. How is that possible if you dyed it in March 2008?
10) why did you feel so uncomfortable about anal sex with Travis when you had previously tried it?
11) you took pictures of the shirt and shorts. Did you take pictures of the Spider-Man underwear? If no, why not?
12) you told Darryl you wanted to abstain from sex until you were married. If so, why did you have sex with Travis?
13) Travis stated on the phone sex conversation that he didn't like Spider-Man. Why did he but you Spider-Man underwear if he did not like that character?
14) why would you tell Leslie you wanted your kids to play with Travis' kids if you knew he was into younger children?
15) if you had bruises that were visible after the April 2008 incident why did nobody else said anything to you about those bruises?
16) if you were so near sighted how were you able to drive?
17) in Travis' text to Jodi exhibit 444 he talks about the mysterious man you've never seen before who wrote for you. Who is this man and why is he bringing it up? Did Travis think it was someone you lied about?
18) you took a picture of the t shirt and pink shorts but not the boys underwear. Why were the pictures taken so much later?
19) you testified that Travis gave you the book if Mormon at Starbucks. Did you read it? If so when?
20) does the Book of Mormon go into detail regarding the law of chastity?
21) who initiated contact after the various breakups: Bobby, Matt, Darryl and Travis. start with Bobby.
22) how far is Crater Lake from Ashland? How far is Medford from Crater Lake? How far is Medford from Ashland?
23) how did you know Victor Arias' family?
24) please explain the events again that led up to your dad slapping you during the incident that you described earlier?
25) what is your relationship w your father like today?
26) would it be possible to have Jodi run through the attack on 6-4-08 using the floor plan exhibit 249?
27) regarding the 9mm gun purchased on July 1 2008, you mentioned a camping trip as one of the reasons for the purchase. Who was going on that trip?
28) why were you planning on going if you were scared?
29) were you paid for the interview with 48 hours?
30) were you paid for the interview with inside edition?
31) in an interview w detective Flores, exhibit 503, you talk to him about taking photos of Travis while he was shaving. You stated "he must have liked it because he used it on his myspace page." Can you explain what he used?
32) you said you tried to call Matt and Darryl about your change in plans regarding going to Mesa but said they did not answer. Why didn't you just leave a message or text them?
33) you testified that you reported you cell phone lost in may of 2008. When and where was it found?
34) have you take long trips by yourself in the past, such as the in from California to Arizona to Utah in June of 2008?
35) how often did you take such trips?
36) during the trips you took, did you take extra gas cans with you?
37) of you took has cans with you where did you get them?
38) during your testimony you mentioned Travis had hit your car once. Can you tell us about that incident?
39) why did you confront Travis after seeing him with another woman through his backyard window if it wasn't because of jealousy?
40) if you simply wanted to know where you stood because he was courting you back, why were you so upset that you needed to call your father about the incident the next day?
41) you mentioned an earlier failed attempt using rope during a sexual encounter. Can you tell us what happened that day, when this occurred and how Travis handled the failure?
42) did Travis' dog usually bark when someone came into the house?
43) did the dog usually bark with loud unexplained noises,?
44) why would you continue to stay with someone who had sex w you while you were sleeping?
45) when did you find out Travis had a gun?
46) to your knowledge did police ever find your grandfathers gun that was stolen?
47) why did you place Travis' body back in the shower?
48) do you know what time you left Travis house on June 4 2008?
49) What happened to the clothes you were wearing on June 4 2008?
50) you say Travis had attacked you previously but would apologize to you after he did it. So why was the June 4 2008 incident different?
51) you and Travis continued to talk on the phone after you moved back to yreka, including phone sex. Would it be fair to say you were upset he was taking another woman to cancun?
52) why did you send his grandmother flowers?
53) why did you take the rope and gun with you?
54) did you lock Travis' bedroom door when you left on June 4 2008?
55) did you try and clean up the scene after you left on June 4 2008?
56) if you climbed on the shelf to grab the gun in a hurry, how is it that nothing is disorganized on Travis' closet?
57) if you shot Travis first, how did the casing land on blood?
58) after you shot Travis, why not run out of the house to get away?
59) why didn't you call 911?
60) if Travis attacked you on June 4 why not just tell police the truth from the start?
61) were you kneeling when you dropped the camera?
62) when Travis stepped out if the shower to attack you was he wet? If so did he slip at all on the tile in the bathroom or hallway?
63) when entering the closet why did t you just open the door closest to you?
64) do you know how tall the ceiling in Travis' closet was?
65) was the gun in a case or just laying on the shelf?
66) why is it that you have no memory of stabbing Travis?
67) whether you had plans to commit suicide or not, why even mention "no jury will ever convict me, mark my words, because I am innocent" in the interview?
68) in your interviews you gave on tv, were you forced to answer all of the questions they asked you?
69) you have pictures of your other finger injuries with time stamps. Do you have a picture of your [left ring] finger injury with a timestamp?
70) do you have pictures of you wearing a finger splint?
71) did anyone see you wearing a finger splint?
72) when did you realize that you had memory loss? The approximate date.
73) did you have an attorney prior to the interview w CBS?
74) you said you got the 2 gas cans so you could fill up in Nevada or Utah where gas was cheaper than California. Why did you fill up in Pasadena?
75) in all of the three hour church sessions, family home evenings, missionary discussions and other church events, you were never told or under the impression that other forms of intercourse, anal or oral, were forbidden?
76) did you know Travis did not like John Dixon prior to your date w John Dixon?
77) why were you willing to get involved w two men at the same time?
78) when you were asked about the video you made with Travis having sex on june 4 2008 you said you used your camera but later when you were asked about your camera you said the camera stayed in the car all day. Which of these 2 is true?
79) when you realized that you did not connect like you had expected, why did you continue to speak to Travis?
80) what is your understanding of the word "
"?81) why did you share housing with Matt at the time you were in a relationship w Travis?
82) were there any girls living there that you could've roomed with?
83) how could you be a sister to Matt, a man you'd had sex with in the past?
84) why didn't you read the Book of Mormon to see what you were and weren't allowed to do?
85) why did you ask Travis about everything you did? (Question skipped bc defendant didn't understand)
86) why did you start a relationship with Ryan Burns when you said earlier "when I am with one guy I don't see other guys"?
87) why is it you can't remember when Travis lent you money, but you remember the exact amount you lent him all three times?
88) why did you think that the incident that happened on June 4 2008 was any different than the ones before, such that you had to kill him to protect yourself?
89) you mentioned injuries that would not have been seen by others when you were in Utah in June of 2008. Can you go into detail as to where they were and how you received them?
90) when you injured yourself at casa Roma's rotating glasses, did your supervisor have you fill out any firms to document the injury for workers compensation purposes?
91) who was the main factor in your decision to move from Big Sur/palm desert to Mesa-Rachel or Travis?
92) you testified that you heard his footsteps. If you weren't sure why didn't you just run downstairs and out the door?
93) why would you take the time to delete the photos off of the camera after you killed Travis?
94) you stated you remember dropping the knife and hearing it hit the tile. What happened to the knife after that?
95) if your phone died while at Travis', why not use a wall charger to charge your phone before you got on the road?
96) in your email to Travis after June 4 of 2008, you told him you would sleep in his bed while he was in cancun. Did you ever sleep in his bed when he wasn't there?
97) how is it that you are so calm on the television interviews?
98) you stated in the 48 hours interview that Travis' family deserved to know the truth. If you really believed that why didn't you confess then?
99) if Travis wanted the phone sex conversations recorded why didn't he record them?
100) if you didn't want to be tied up to a tree why did you go and look for a place to do that?
101) if you dropped the camera on the bathmat, how is it that it rolled all the way in front of the bathtub?
102) on the phone sex tape when Travis was talking about taking photos and video was that all part of his fantasy?
103) did you ever voice any concern to Travis about being uncomfortable with any of his sexual fantasies?
104) why didn't you call Ryan and tell him you were going to Arizona when you decided you were going to Arizona?
105) you testified to many times where you performed sexual favors with Travis to keep him pleased and happy. Are you saying you never got pleasure out of sex w Travis?
106) why would you continue to carry around your journals with you if you thought it was possible others like Travis might find them and read them?
107) why were the laws of attraction so important to follow but the law if chastity was not?
108) do the laws if attraction also apply to recording phone sex conversations?
109) you stated there were times that Travis made you tear out pages where you had written negative things about him. Right before that you stated you would never write negative things about Travis in your journal. Which is correct?
110) can we see other examples of when you called men you did not have romantic interest in "hottie biscotti"? Are there texts, IMs, or emails?
111) if you weren't going to marry Travis because of the January 21 and 22 2008 events, why stay with him at all?
112) do you feel the guys in your life cheated on you because you were controlling?
113) were you mad at Travis while you were stabbing him?
114) how is it that you remember so many of your sexual encounters including your ex boyfriends but you don't remember stabbing Travis or dragging his body?
115) during cross examination you were asked if you were crying when you stabbed Travis and you said no. How would you know if you had a memory gap at that time?
116) you said you bought a gun to commit suicide but never ended up doing so. What stopped you from doing so?
117) you stated you wouldn't want kids with Travis because you would be worried about them. Why then did you tell Leslie you couldn't wait for your kids and Travis' kids to play together at future ppl events?
118) a lot of your answers to the questions you were asked made it seem like you put Travis' feelings and priorities before your own. If that were true why didn't you call for help after you shot Travis?
119) why did you decide to tell the truth two years after the killing?
120) what made you change you mind and tell everyone about Travis' secret-the child picture?
121) you said you were sick to your stomach when you saw Travis with child pictures, so why did you sleep with him again?
122) would you classify your relationship with Travis Alexander as a love/hate relationship?
123) on June 4 2008 after you got up and ran toward the bathroom closet is it possible that Travis picked up the camera and moved it? Could that also explain the delay in his arrival and his anger at the closet door threshold?
124) given that there are guiding principles such as the law of attraction and passing down journals to future generations do you feel the Mormon church encourages burying the truth about issues that may be considered embarrassing?
125) can you give a few examples of what might be considered negative other than those already discussed?
126) how do you determine when you will tell the truth and when you will not tell the truth? What are the determining factors?
127) when did you find Travis' gun? Was it kept loaded in the closet?
128) today, March 5 2013, you stated before lunch that you think you filled the car up first. If you did have the third gas can, as we saw in several hypothetical situations after lunch, do you see it possible to put 8.301 gallons if gas in the car exhibit 237.011 and then 9.59 gallons and 2.74 gallons for a total of 12.368 gallons in the remaining 3 gas cans exhibits 237.012 and 237.013
129) you have described that sex was a way for Travis to relieve stress and later testified that sex was a way to relieve anger. Which is true? How do you know that?
130) would a screwdriver be required to take off the license plates
131) did you find it strange that only your license plate was messed with in that parking lot?
132) if you were travelling to a place you had never been before, meaning Utah, why didn't you map out different towns that would have gas or rest stations?
133) did you ever see a doctor for your memory issues?
134) if you were scared if Travis' anger and violence why would you go upstairs when he was banging his head when you knew he was already mad?
135) did Travis ever tell you he kept his gun loaded?
136) if you did not think the gun was loaded why chance grabbing a gun that might not be loaded? Instead of just running outside?
137) you stated that when you walked out of Starbucks you did not notice anything wrong with the car. How us it that the back license plate ended upside down?
138) why did you plan on going to see John Dixon when you were on your way to Utah to see Ryan?
139) how many men are you willing to be involved with at the same time
140) did you ever seek medical help for your mental condition? Have you ever taken medication for your memory issue? Did you ever tell anyone about your condition prior to the killing?
141) you told us you weren't able to make out the license plate leaning up against the curb because you are nearsighted. What is your prescription in each eye?
142) did anyone ever see you shaking?
143) so any of your journal entries discuss you shaking, blacking out or getting scrambled?
144) you claim to have memory lapses or gaps during times of stress or when you're being grilled. How is it you have such specific memories of violence and yelling by Travis such a long time ago if this is the case
66): Why is it that you have no memory of stabbing Travis?
A: I can't really explain why my mind did what it did. Maybe because it's too horrible, I really don't know why I blacked out or have memory gaps much of the day.
67): Whether you had plans to commit suicide or not, why even mention no jury will ever convict me mark my words, I am innocent in the interview?
A: I was very confident that no jury would convict because I was going to be dead. As far as saying I was innocent, definitely innocent of my charge is what I meant, and also in the next life, where I believe that God is the ultimate judge that he will understand the circumstances of that day and that it would ultimately that he would be, he would know all the circumstances that happened that day, so in that innocent of the charge, but that there wouldn't be a conviction because you don't convict a dead person, I would be in the grave at that point.
68): In your interviews you gave on T.V., were you forced to answer all of the questions they asked you?
A: I was not physically forced, but when you're put on the spot if kind of feels like it, Like you kind of, but for some reason I felt like I had to answer every question, but I wasn't forced. If that makes sense.
69: You have pictures of your other finger injuries that include time-stamps, do you have any pictures of your finger injury with time-stamps?
A: I guess that would be the left finger? Um I didn't take a specific picture showing the injury, but any picture taken subsequent to June 22nd would show my ring finger bent whether it was like that one in the photo or anywhere else.
70: Do you have any pictures of you wearing a finger splint?
A: no, definitely not
71: Did anyone see you wearing a finger splint?
A: I wore it one day at, when I was working at Mimi's Cafe, but I don't know if anyone commented it on it or not, so it was kind of embarrassing
M: Objection
J: Sustained
72: When did you realize that you had memory loss? The approximate date?
A: Um, if that's a reference to June 4th, um when I'd been pulled over in the car and I began searching around for the water, for the shoes, just trying to clean myself up and that kind of thing, I can attribute it to being maybe, I mean I had memory loss one time when I was 19 because it was alcohol related and one time when I was 15 and it was alcohol related so that's the only other thing I can attribute it to,um just like a black out, so that was when I, shortly thereafter was when I couldn't remember things, certain things, um some things have come back to me since, but just not all of it.
73: Did you have an attorney prior to the interview with CBS
A: Um, not for my case, I had an attorney for the limited purpose of assisting me in my extradition
M: Objection
J: Sustained, yes or no?
A: Of sort of, I guess
74:You said you got the two gas cans so you that you could fill up in Nevada or Utah where gas was cheaper than California. Why did you fill the gas cans up in Pasadena?
A: Yes, that's why I initially got the gas cans from Daryl, so I could save money, that kind of thing. I'm a coupon clipper, that kind of person, but when I got to southern California and realized I'm taking I-I15 across two and a half states, um I've never driving this before, it's the middle of the night, I'm by myself and I'm in a car that I'm not familiar with, I didn't want to be stuck in the dark somewhere in the desert, I've heard lots of horror stories and I wanted to make sure I wasn't stranded.
75)In all of the three hour church sessions, family home evenings, missionary discussions and other church events, you were never told or were never under the impression that other forms of intercourse, oral and anal, were forbidden?
A: I did get that impression on a few occasions and I discussed it with Travis and he clarified it for me in his way
M: Objection, relevance
J: Sustained, is the answer yes
A: Um, somewhat yes, but it wasn't clear
76) Did you know that Travis did not like John Dixon prior to your date with John Dixon?
A: Prior to my first date with him, no I didn't even know, I don't think he even knew John Dixon, maybe had seen him through Prepaid Legal, but prior to that date, no, and I'm talking about before Travis and I became boyfriend/girlfriend as far as the date that occurred after we broke up, I knew that he didn't care for John Dixon
77)Why were you willing to get involved with two men at the same time?
A: Well, I was trying to get, it was very difficult to break away from Travis, I knew we were going in separate directions but we kept continuing with the same habits that we had and I said before that that I'm monogamous and by that I do mean sexually monogamous for sure, never had more than one partner at the same time in that regard, so as far as Ryan, he was just a potential person that I wanted to get to know and if things had gone further then I definitely would have cut off that sort of contact with Travis.
78)When you were asked about the video you made with Travis having sex on June 4, 2008 you said you used your camera but when you were asked about your camera later, you said you didn't take it out of the car that day. Which of these two is true?
A: For clarification, both is true, both are true. The Canon stayed in the vehicle and my Olympus was tiny and was always in my purse. So, and the Olympus the Stylus 500 and it had video on it, the Canon did not.
79)When you realized that you did not connect as expected, why did you continue to speak to Travis?
A: I think that's a reference to Ehrenberg because we weren't connecting the way we had before. Travis and I connected very well over the phone, it seemed like it was more of an emotional and mental connection, a meeting of minds so to speak, and I was not going to contact him again after three failed attempts over the weekend and then I didn't hear from him. So when he called me Tuesday, and left me a very sweet voice mail, it kinda was a feeling of relief like oh, okay, I wasn't just being used, he still cares, so I called back and he was somewhat remorseful that we had gone that long without talking and we agreed to not do that again. Going that long without communication.
A: I can't really explain why my mind did what it did. Maybe because it's too horrible, I really don't know why I blacked out or have memory gaps much of the day.
67): Whether you had plans to commit suicide or not, why even mention no jury will ever convict me mark my words, I am innocent in the interview?
A: I was very confident that no jury would convict because I was going to be dead. As far as saying I was innocent, definitely innocent of my charge is what I meant, and also in the next life, where I believe that God is the ultimate judge that he will understand the circumstances of that day and that it would ultimately that he would be, he would know all the circumstances that happened that day, so in that innocent of the charge, but that there wouldn't be a conviction because you don't convict a dead person, I would be in the grave at that point.
68): In your interviews you gave on T.V., were you forced to answer all of the questions they asked you?
A: I was not physically forced, but when you're put on the spot if kind of feels like it, Like you kind of, but for some reason I felt like I had to answer every question, but I wasn't forced. If that makes sense.
69: You have pictures of your other finger injuries that include time-stamps, do you have any pictures of your finger injury with time-stamps?
A: I guess that would be the left finger? Um I didn't take a specific picture showing the injury, but any picture taken subsequent to June 22nd would show my ring finger bent whether it was like that one in the photo or anywhere else.
70: Do you have any pictures of you wearing a finger splint?
A: no, definitely not
71: Did anyone see you wearing a finger splint?
A: I wore it one day at, when I was working at Mimi's Cafe, but I don't know if anyone commented it on it or not, so it was kind of embarrassing
M: Objection
J: Sustained
72: When did you realize that you had memory loss? The approximate date?
A: Um, if that's a reference to June 4th, um when I'd been pulled over in the car and I began searching around for the water, for the shoes, just trying to clean myself up and that kind of thing, I can attribute it to being maybe, I mean I had memory loss one time when I was 19 because it was alcohol related and one time when I was 15 and it was alcohol related so that's the only other thing I can attribute it to,um just like a black out, so that was when I, shortly thereafter was when I couldn't remember things, certain things, um some things have come back to me since, but just not all of it.
73: Did you have an attorney prior to the interview with CBS
A: Um, not for my case, I had an attorney for the limited purpose of assisting me in my extradition
M: Objection
J: Sustained, yes or no?
A: Of sort of, I guess
74:You said you got the two gas cans so you that you could fill up in Nevada or Utah where gas was cheaper than California. Why did you fill the gas cans up in Pasadena?
A: Yes, that's why I initially got the gas cans from Daryl, so I could save money, that kind of thing. I'm a coupon clipper, that kind of person, but when I got to southern California and realized I'm taking I-I15 across two and a half states, um I've never driving this before, it's the middle of the night, I'm by myself and I'm in a car that I'm not familiar with, I didn't want to be stuck in the dark somewhere in the desert, I've heard lots of horror stories and I wanted to make sure I wasn't stranded.
75)In all of the three hour church sessions, family home evenings, missionary discussions and other church events, you were never told or were never under the impression that other forms of intercourse, oral and anal, were forbidden?
A: I did get that impression on a few occasions and I discussed it with Travis and he clarified it for me in his way
M: Objection, relevance
J: Sustained, is the answer yes
A: Um, somewhat yes, but it wasn't clear
76) Did you know that Travis did not like John Dixon prior to your date with John Dixon?
A: Prior to my first date with him, no I didn't even know, I don't think he even knew John Dixon, maybe had seen him through Prepaid Legal, but prior to that date, no, and I'm talking about before Travis and I became boyfriend/girlfriend as far as the date that occurred after we broke up, I knew that he didn't care for John Dixon
77)Why were you willing to get involved with two men at the same time?
A: Well, I was trying to get, it was very difficult to break away from Travis, I knew we were going in separate directions but we kept continuing with the same habits that we had and I said before that that I'm monogamous and by that I do mean sexually monogamous for sure, never had more than one partner at the same time in that regard, so as far as Ryan, he was just a potential person that I wanted to get to know and if things had gone further then I definitely would have cut off that sort of contact with Travis.
78)When you were asked about the video you made with Travis having sex on June 4, 2008 you said you used your camera but when you were asked about your camera later, you said you didn't take it out of the car that day. Which of these two is true?
A: For clarification, both is true, both are true. The Canon stayed in the vehicle and my Olympus was tiny and was always in my purse. So, and the Olympus the Stylus 500 and it had video on it, the Canon did not.
79)When you realized that you did not connect as expected, why did you continue to speak to Travis?
A: I think that's a reference to Ehrenberg because we weren't connecting the way we had before. Travis and I connected very well over the phone, it seemed like it was more of an emotional and mental connection, a meeting of minds so to speak, and I was not going to contact him again after three failed attempts over the weekend and then I didn't hear from him. So when he called me Tuesday, and left me a very sweet voice mail, it kinda was a feeling of relief like oh, okay, I wasn't just being used, he still cares, so I called back and he was somewhat remorseful that we had gone that long without talking and we agreed to not do that again. Going that long without communication.
80) What is your understanding of the word ?
A: I don't know an official definition, but it's a very negative, pejorative, derogative term against women
81) Why did you share housing with Matt at the time you were in a relationship with Travis?
A: Well, the reason I moved to Big Sur, Matt was the available housing in Big Sur
M: Objection
J: Overruled, you may continue
A: Okay the reason I felt comfortable living with Matt is because at that point in time, this was I want to say, seven years after we had broken up, our friendship had evolved to a point where we were more like a brother sister kind of a relationship, there was no attraction, zero, we didn't even hug, we were just friends, and we were more like siblings and I think Travis understood that
M: Objection
J: Sustained
82) Were there any girls working with you that you could share a room with?
A: At Ventana? No, there were no
83) How can you be a sister to Matt, someone you had sex with in the past?
A: It does sound strange, but that's just the way our friendship evolved after the breakup, I got over what he did with Bianca and that resentment melted away and gave way to just a genuine goodwill toward him and him toward me. Also, um, our time in Ventana was broken up because at one point, I think I mentioned on direct that the restaurant and Ventana closed and the entire dining operation moved over to the Inn and we operated out of there during that five week period the restaurant was being remodeled and Matt moved Vail, CO, I didn't see him for six, seven, eight months. He had another relationship at the time and by the time he moved back , Daryl and I had started a relationship and at first it was sort of awkward but then Matt and I realized we just jive in a certain way but we're just better off friends than girlfriend/boyfriend and that was a place where we reached an acceptance and there was no longer an attraction to Matt, in more I think I was blinded by love and now I saw all his other qualities, I still liked him as a person but I was not attracted to him, if that makes sense.
84) Why didn't you read the Book of Mormon to see what you were and were not allowed to do?
A: I did read the Book of Mormon, um there is additional doctrine that explains the commandments a lot more called the Doctrine and Covenants and the Book of Mormon covers a lot of the basics, it's very similar to the Bible in some of those things, like the Beatitudes are sort of reworded in some in one portion of it. Um, I think the ten commandments are sort of reworded in some portion of it, but it's more the Doctrine and Covenants that go into detail and also subsequent presidencies the church has gone through have clarified even more what certain commandments mean, what that really entails. Such as the Word of Wisdom, when the Doctrine and Covenants was written in the 1800s, it doesn't say anything about coffee, tea, alcohol or illegal drugs. It mentions hot drinks, tobacco and more clarification was given in the 20th Century, so it's kind of like that. I did real the Book of Mormon, but it's not ultra specific.
85) Why did you as Travis about everything you did?
A: I don't understand that question
J: Alright, then we'll move on to the next one
86) Why did you start a relationship with Ryan Burns when you said earlier when I'm with one guy I don't see other guys.
A: Well, I didn't consider myself Travis's girlfriend since I broke up with him on June 29th of the previous year, also I moved over 1,000 miles to get away from him. Even though it was hard to break up so to speak, we were broken up but we still continued some of the same patterns we had, I was still attempting to move on, maybe not making the best attempt, but when somebody introduced us through text message we began to call and just sort of hit it off. We were just talking friends and it was only potential thing, so I didn't consider myself seeing Ryan or seeing Travis but Travis was still the person that I was most intimate with.
87) Why is it you can't remember when Travis lent you money but you remember the exact amount that you lent him all three times?
A: I do remember times he lent me money, um, I think I got, went into a few of those times and one of the reasons I specifically remember amounts that he lent me is because it's documented in my journal and I've since reread that journal several times.
88) Why did you think that the incident that happened on June 4, 2008 was any different from the ones before so that you had to kill him to protect yourself?
A: June 4, 2008 was different in that even though I thought that he would never get that way again because, it just, like I think he scared himself when I passed out based on our subsequent conversations and we realized how far it went. I thought that it was done at that point as far as violence goes, so when it happened again and I realized how far it could escalate when he gets that angry, um, I was terrified this time. Especially because he was trying to get on top of me and also he just kept coming. He didn't stop, even when I tried to stop him by running away or pointing a weapon on him, he kept coming and kept coming and just did not stop.
89) You mentioned injuries that would not have been seen by others when you were in Utah in June of 2008. Can you go into deal as to where they were and how you received them?
A: Yes, my ankles were bleeding, um, not profusely, but they were scratched and they were injured. I had socks and shoes on. Also when I hit the tile the back of my head right here, slammed on the tile, um, and I do have, my shoulder's never been the same but I don't know if it's related to being slammed on the tile, um it's off, is all I can say, it hurts constantly, actually.
?A: I don't know an official definition, but it's a very negative, pejorative, derogative term against women
81) Why did you share housing with Matt at the time you were in a relationship with Travis?
A: Well, the reason I moved to Big Sur, Matt was the available housing in Big Sur
M: Objection
J: Overruled, you may continue
A: Okay the reason I felt comfortable living with Matt is because at that point in time, this was I want to say, seven years after we had broken up, our friendship had evolved to a point where we were more like a brother sister kind of a relationship, there was no attraction, zero, we didn't even hug, we were just friends, and we were more like siblings and I think Travis understood that
M: Objection
J: Sustained
82) Were there any girls working with you that you could share a room with?
A: At Ventana? No, there were no
83) How can you be a sister to Matt, someone you had sex with in the past?
A: It does sound strange, but that's just the way our friendship evolved after the breakup, I got over what he did with Bianca and that resentment melted away and gave way to just a genuine goodwill toward him and him toward me. Also, um, our time in Ventana was broken up because at one point, I think I mentioned on direct that the restaurant and Ventana closed and the entire dining operation moved over to the Inn and we operated out of there during that five week period the restaurant was being remodeled and Matt moved Vail, CO, I didn't see him for six, seven, eight months. He had another relationship at the time and by the time he moved back , Daryl and I had started a relationship and at first it was sort of awkward but then Matt and I realized we just jive in a certain way but we're just better off friends than girlfriend/boyfriend and that was a place where we reached an acceptance and there was no longer an attraction to Matt, in more I think I was blinded by love and now I saw all his other qualities, I still liked him as a person but I was not attracted to him, if that makes sense.
84) Why didn't you read the Book of Mormon to see what you were and were not allowed to do?
A: I did read the Book of Mormon, um there is additional doctrine that explains the commandments a lot more called the Doctrine and Covenants and the Book of Mormon covers a lot of the basics, it's very similar to the Bible in some of those things, like the Beatitudes are sort of reworded in some in one portion of it. Um, I think the ten commandments are sort of reworded in some portion of it, but it's more the Doctrine and Covenants that go into detail and also subsequent presidencies the church has gone through have clarified even more what certain commandments mean, what that really entails. Such as the Word of Wisdom, when the Doctrine and Covenants was written in the 1800s, it doesn't say anything about coffee, tea, alcohol or illegal drugs. It mentions hot drinks, tobacco and more clarification was given in the 20th Century, so it's kind of like that. I did real the Book of Mormon, but it's not ultra specific.
85) Why did you as Travis about everything you did?
A: I don't understand that question
J: Alright, then we'll move on to the next one
86) Why did you start a relationship with Ryan Burns when you said earlier when I'm with one guy I don't see other guys.
A: Well, I didn't consider myself Travis's girlfriend since I broke up with him on June 29th of the previous year, also I moved over 1,000 miles to get away from him. Even though it was hard to break up so to speak, we were broken up but we still continued some of the same patterns we had, I was still attempting to move on, maybe not making the best attempt, but when somebody introduced us through text message we began to call and just sort of hit it off. We were just talking friends and it was only potential thing, so I didn't consider myself seeing Ryan or seeing Travis but Travis was still the person that I was most intimate with.
87) Why is it you can't remember when Travis lent you money but you remember the exact amount that you lent him all three times?
A: I do remember times he lent me money, um, I think I got, went into a few of those times and one of the reasons I specifically remember amounts that he lent me is because it's documented in my journal and I've since reread that journal several times.
88) Why did you think that the incident that happened on June 4, 2008 was any different from the ones before so that you had to kill him to protect yourself?
A: June 4, 2008 was different in that even though I thought that he would never get that way again because, it just, like I think he scared himself when I passed out based on our subsequent conversations and we realized how far it went. I thought that it was done at that point as far as violence goes, so when it happened again and I realized how far it could escalate when he gets that angry, um, I was terrified this time. Especially because he was trying to get on top of me and also he just kept coming. He didn't stop, even when I tried to stop him by running away or pointing a weapon on him, he kept coming and kept coming and just did not stop.
89) You mentioned injuries that would not have been seen by others when you were in Utah in June of 2008. Can you go into deal as to where they were and how you received them?
A: Yes, my ankles were bleeding, um, not profusely, but they were scratched and they were injured. I had socks and shoes on. Also when I hit the tile the back of my head right here, slammed on the tile, um, and I do have, my shoulder's never been the same but I don't know if it's related to being slammed on the tile, um it's off, is all I can say, it hurts constantly, actually.
90)When you injured yourself at Casa Ramos rotating the glasses, did your supervisor have you fill out any forms to document the injury for worker's compensation purposes?
A: No, this was a small business operation, they didn't have formalities like forms, that kind of thing, just what was minimally required as far as being a legally documented worker. It was less formal, this wasn't a corporate kind of setting where those kind of formalities were done.
91)Who was the main factor in your decision to move from Big Sur/Palm Desert to Mesa. Travis or Rachel?
A: It was Travis, ultimately
92) You testified that you thought you heard his footsteps. If you weren't sure, why didn't you just run downstairs and out the door?
A: It was all a split second decision, but like I said when I got toward the carpet area, that's where he caught my wrist before when I began running down that hallway on a previous occasion and so here I am running away from him down the hallway again. On the previous occasion my intention was to run out of the room and I didn't make it out of the room. So this time rather than try to this time open a door and run out of the room, this closet door was open and I knew there was another exit so I just ran into that as quickly as I could.
93) Why would you take the time to delete the photos off the camera after you killed Travis?
A: That would go with all the other things that I did that day. When things happened, I don't have memory of it, specific memory of it at all. But I mean I could
M: Objection
J: Sustained
94) You stated you remember dropping the knife and hearing it hit the tile. What happened to the knife after that?
A: I don't recall what specifically happened after that I just know it didn't go with me in the car
M: Objection, speculation
J: Sustained
95) If your phone had died while at Travis', why not use a wall charger so you would have it charged before you got on the road?
A: That was a thought of mine, but Travis did not have a wall charger that had a plug that fit my type of phone so I was not able to charge it there.
96) In your email to Travis after June 4 of 2008, you told him you would sleep in his bed while he was in Cancun. Did you ever stay over night without him there?
A: Yes, when I was pet-sitting Napoleon, I did that.
97) How is it that you were so calm on the television interviews?
A: I wanted to, I tried very hard to present the best image I could and I had had a lot of prior experiences, experience of pretending that everything was okay when it wasn't. That everything on the surface was okay, when really it wasn't. I was accustomed to that and also I wanted to portray that, that I'm confident and I'm okay, I can do this. No worries. That's what I really wanted to get across at that time. And then I wanted to kill myself so that I would never have to own up to it.
98) You stated in the 48 hours interview that Travis' family deserved to know the truth. If you really believed that why didn't you confess then?
A: That was not entirely true in that I didn't want them to know certain truths and again I said that because it's a derivative of my attempt to deny that I had anything to do with it.
99) if Travis wanted the phone sex conversations recorded why didn't he record them?*
A: His phone did not have that capability, neither did mine until I bought the Helio, or Gus bought me the Helio. I discovered that feature and we joked back and forth about it and then I began to record them when we decided we would do that, his phone didn't have recording capability.
100)If you didn't want to be tied up to a tree, why would you go up and look for a place where he could do that?
A: It wasn't being tied to the tree that I was looking for, we were looking for a place, out in the woods, nature to somehow carry out this Little Red Riding Hood fantasy and my understanding of that is that it would involve sex, but he had many other ideas, as you heard on the tape, it didn't necessarily mean that I was going to go for all those. I was kind of pushing my own limits anyway by going out to the woods to find a spot and that was the focus for that fantasy, but not necessarily getting tied to a tree.
101) If you dropped the camera on the bathmat, how is it that it rolled all the way in front of the bathtub.
A: On the diagram it looks very far, but it's really a distance of this. You have the shower, there's a very thin wall and then the bathtub begins here. So wherever I was standing here it didn't have to roll. It just bounced off the mat, it's not way down by the bathroom area, but it's right near the bathtub at that point. There's only a difference of about this much between the shower and the bathtub.
102) On the phone sex tape when Travis was talking about photos and taking video. Was that all part of his fantasy?
A: Taking photo and video, yes that was a fantasy that he hoped to realize.
103) Did you ever voice any concern to Travis about being uncomfortable with some of his sexual fantasies?
A: Yes, there was one fantasy that he wanted to do which was pulling off the side of a freeway exit and having sex on the hood of a car. And I told him that that would be impossible. I couldn't even think of an exit in rural northern California where that would be accomplished and nobody would see us. So that and I was a little uncomfortable with the mile-high that he wanted to do because the flight attendants tent to monitor who's going and coming from the bathroom and they don't allow two people at once. So it's just those two that I recall.
104) Why didn't you call Ryan and tell him you were going to Arizona when you decided you were going to Arizona?
A: I guess I didn't want Ryan to know that I still had the interest that I had in Travis. Just like I didn't want Travis to know that, but for different reasons that I was interested in Ryan. I felt like how would it sound if I called up this guy that I'm gonna go to meet, hey I'm gonna hang out with my ex-boyfriend for a little while, sorry, you know, I didn't feel comfortable, or like that was something that I would have done is say let him know that I'm gonna go hang out with my ex and then I'll swing by and meet you or something. It was a bad decision, but I've made of bad decisions when it came to Travis.
105) You have testified to many different occasions where you preformed sexual favors with Travis to keep him pleased and happy. Are you saying that you never got pleasure from sex with Travis?
A: Definitely not, I did. Many occasions he was very romantic, very loving, I guess you could say attentive and he cared about my pleasure as well, not always, um, but there were times when he was, when we were very compatible in that regard
106)Why would you continue to carry your journals around with you if it was possible others, including Travis, might find them and read them?
A: To my knowledge no one else read my journals and then once I discovered Travis had, I was a little more guarded about it, but I kept my journal inside my purse and my purse zipped up and I nobody really went through my purse, so I considered it safe in my purse because nobody got into my purse except me typically.
107)Why were the Laws of Attraction so important to follow but the Law of Chastity was not?
A: I believed that I was following the Law of Chastity for a long time. I realize now that I was not. The Law of Attraction was also a huge philosophy of mine. It was, it was my second religion pretty much. Also, with the Law of Chastity and what it prohibits, there is a great deal of temptation and even though we eventually did begin to, at least as I understood it, openly violate the law of chastity, it was kind of like, I don't know, it's hard to describe. I think it was temptation, it was weakness, it was not that I didn't believe in the Law of Chastity, but when it came to Travis, that was more important.
108) Do the Laws of Attraction also apply to recording phone sex conversations?
A: the Law of Attraction, I guess it could be construed that way in that when we were doing those things I got positive, I had positive interaction with Travis, he wasn't angry, he was complementary, he was saying things that were in a complementary way, he would be nice to me, so it was the attention that I craved and the Law of Attraction does state that you focus more on the qualities of the person that you like and don't focus on the things you don't like. So when were doing those things we were both focused on each other, maybe not in a spiritually positive way, but in a way that made me feel good and him as well.
109) You stated there were times that Travis made you tear out pages of negative things that you said about him. Right before that you said you wouldn't right negative things about Travis in your journal. Which is correct?
A: They're both correct. The entry that he made me tear out was very detailed and a lot more, I was quoting him directly on a couple things he said, um, and when he discovered those he made me and my feelings so I used to right things to purge. When he admonished me and reminded me of The Secret, um, at that point I wrote less specific things. Sometimes I would just write about my emotions and sometimes those were negative but writing about suicidal thoughts for example helped me process it and getting it down on paper helped it get out of me I felt like. So when it came to Travis I would be less specific. Like I would write today, Travis was obscenely mean to me I wouldn't go into detail about what that meant. I just remembered that was a really bad day so I would write something to that effect.
Afternoon recess.
A: No, this was a small business operation, they didn't have formalities like forms, that kind of thing, just what was minimally required as far as being a legally documented worker. It was less formal, this wasn't a corporate kind of setting where those kind of formalities were done.
91)Who was the main factor in your decision to move from Big Sur/Palm Desert to Mesa. Travis or Rachel?
A: It was Travis, ultimately
92) You testified that you thought you heard his footsteps. If you weren't sure, why didn't you just run downstairs and out the door?
A: It was all a split second decision, but like I said when I got toward the carpet area, that's where he caught my wrist before when I began running down that hallway on a previous occasion and so here I am running away from him down the hallway again. On the previous occasion my intention was to run out of the room and I didn't make it out of the room. So this time rather than try to this time open a door and run out of the room, this closet door was open and I knew there was another exit so I just ran into that as quickly as I could.
93) Why would you take the time to delete the photos off the camera after you killed Travis?
A: That would go with all the other things that I did that day. When things happened, I don't have memory of it, specific memory of it at all. But I mean I could
M: Objection
J: Sustained
94) You stated you remember dropping the knife and hearing it hit the tile. What happened to the knife after that?
A: I don't recall what specifically happened after that I just know it didn't go with me in the car
M: Objection, speculation
J: Sustained
95) If your phone had died while at Travis', why not use a wall charger so you would have it charged before you got on the road?
A: That was a thought of mine, but Travis did not have a wall charger that had a plug that fit my type of phone so I was not able to charge it there.
96) In your email to Travis after June 4 of 2008, you told him you would sleep in his bed while he was in Cancun. Did you ever stay over night without him there?
A: Yes, when I was pet-sitting Napoleon, I did that.
97) How is it that you were so calm on the television interviews?
A: I wanted to, I tried very hard to present the best image I could and I had had a lot of prior experiences, experience of pretending that everything was okay when it wasn't. That everything on the surface was okay, when really it wasn't. I was accustomed to that and also I wanted to portray that, that I'm confident and I'm okay, I can do this. No worries. That's what I really wanted to get across at that time. And then I wanted to kill myself so that I would never have to own up to it.
98) You stated in the 48 hours interview that Travis' family deserved to know the truth. If you really believed that why didn't you confess then?
A: That was not entirely true in that I didn't want them to know certain truths and again I said that because it's a derivative of my attempt to deny that I had anything to do with it.
99) if Travis wanted the phone sex conversations recorded why didn't he record them?*
A: His phone did not have that capability, neither did mine until I bought the Helio, or Gus bought me the Helio. I discovered that feature and we joked back and forth about it and then I began to record them when we decided we would do that, his phone didn't have recording capability.
100)If you didn't want to be tied up to a tree, why would you go up and look for a place where he could do that?
A: It wasn't being tied to the tree that I was looking for, we were looking for a place, out in the woods, nature to somehow carry out this Little Red Riding Hood fantasy and my understanding of that is that it would involve sex, but he had many other ideas, as you heard on the tape, it didn't necessarily mean that I was going to go for all those. I was kind of pushing my own limits anyway by going out to the woods to find a spot and that was the focus for that fantasy, but not necessarily getting tied to a tree.
101) If you dropped the camera on the bathmat, how is it that it rolled all the way in front of the bathtub.
A: On the diagram it looks very far, but it's really a distance of this. You have the shower, there's a very thin wall and then the bathtub begins here. So wherever I was standing here it didn't have to roll. It just bounced off the mat, it's not way down by the bathroom area, but it's right near the bathtub at that point. There's only a difference of about this much between the shower and the bathtub.
102) On the phone sex tape when Travis was talking about photos and taking video. Was that all part of his fantasy?
A: Taking photo and video, yes that was a fantasy that he hoped to realize.
103) Did you ever voice any concern to Travis about being uncomfortable with some of his sexual fantasies?
A: Yes, there was one fantasy that he wanted to do which was pulling off the side of a freeway exit and having sex on the hood of a car. And I told him that that would be impossible. I couldn't even think of an exit in rural northern California where that would be accomplished and nobody would see us. So that and I was a little uncomfortable with the mile-high that he wanted to do because the flight attendants tent to monitor who's going and coming from the bathroom and they don't allow two people at once. So it's just those two that I recall.
104) Why didn't you call Ryan and tell him you were going to Arizona when you decided you were going to Arizona?
A: I guess I didn't want Ryan to know that I still had the interest that I had in Travis. Just like I didn't want Travis to know that, but for different reasons that I was interested in Ryan. I felt like how would it sound if I called up this guy that I'm gonna go to meet, hey I'm gonna hang out with my ex-boyfriend for a little while, sorry, you know, I didn't feel comfortable, or like that was something that I would have done is say let him know that I'm gonna go hang out with my ex and then I'll swing by and meet you or something. It was a bad decision, but I've made of bad decisions when it came to Travis.
105) You have testified to many different occasions where you preformed sexual favors with Travis to keep him pleased and happy. Are you saying that you never got pleasure from sex with Travis?
A: Definitely not, I did. Many occasions he was very romantic, very loving, I guess you could say attentive and he cared about my pleasure as well, not always, um, but there were times when he was, when we were very compatible in that regard
106)Why would you continue to carry your journals around with you if it was possible others, including Travis, might find them and read them?
A: To my knowledge no one else read my journals and then once I discovered Travis had, I was a little more guarded about it, but I kept my journal inside my purse and my purse zipped up and I nobody really went through my purse, so I considered it safe in my purse because nobody got into my purse except me typically.
107)Why were the Laws of Attraction so important to follow but the Law of Chastity was not?
A: I believed that I was following the Law of Chastity for a long time. I realize now that I was not. The Law of Attraction was also a huge philosophy of mine. It was, it was my second religion pretty much. Also, with the Law of Chastity and what it prohibits, there is a great deal of temptation and even though we eventually did begin to, at least as I understood it, openly violate the law of chastity, it was kind of like, I don't know, it's hard to describe. I think it was temptation, it was weakness, it was not that I didn't believe in the Law of Chastity, but when it came to Travis, that was more important.
108) Do the Laws of Attraction also apply to recording phone sex conversations?
A: the Law of Attraction, I guess it could be construed that way in that when we were doing those things I got positive, I had positive interaction with Travis, he wasn't angry, he was complementary, he was saying things that were in a complementary way, he would be nice to me, so it was the attention that I craved and the Law of Attraction does state that you focus more on the qualities of the person that you like and don't focus on the things you don't like. So when were doing those things we were both focused on each other, maybe not in a spiritually positive way, but in a way that made me feel good and him as well.
109) You stated there were times that Travis made you tear out pages of negative things that you said about him. Right before that you said you wouldn't right negative things about Travis in your journal. Which is correct?
A: They're both correct. The entry that he made me tear out was very detailed and a lot more, I was quoting him directly on a couple things he said, um, and when he discovered those he made me and my feelings so I used to right things to purge. When he admonished me and reminded me of The Secret, um, at that point I wrote less specific things. Sometimes I would just write about my emotions and sometimes those were negative but writing about suicidal thoughts for example helped me process it and getting it down on paper helped it get out of me I felt like. So when it came to Travis I would be less specific. Like I would write today, Travis was obscenely mean to me I wouldn't go into detail about what that meant. I just remembered that was a really bad day so I would write something to that effect.
Afternoon recess.
110) Can we see other examples of when you called me that you did not have romantic interests in Hottie Biscottie? Are there text messages, emails, or instant messages?
A: Probably, well none that I've seen that have been recovered but there would be some in text messages, I texted Daryl a lot, I texted my little brother.
M: Objection
J: Approach, please
Did you call any men you did not have romantic interest in hottie biscotti in text messages, emails, or instant messages?
A: Yes, in text messages, not the other
J: In text messages?
A: Yes
111) If you were not going to marry Travis because of the Jan 21, 2008 and Jan 22, 2008 events, why stay with him at all?
A: It was difficult to stay away from him it was difficult to break away from him and when he would invite me over it was very hard to stay no. He was persuasive and he still had an effect on me that when I came over when he was in a good mood it made me feel good and I enjoyed being with him during those times. And that's something I was familiar with
112) Do you feel the guys in your life cheated on you because you were controlling?
A: I feel it was just the opposite. I feel they cheated on me because I was too tolerant. I was very trusting, implicitly trusting and very naive. I gave them the freedom to do what they wanted when they wanted and I think they took advantage of that.
113) Were you mad at Travis when you were stabbing him?
A: I don't recall fear being a prominent, I mean sorry, I don't recall angry being a prominent
M: Objection, she said she can't remember if she does remember she should tell us
A: I remember the emotions, Judge
J: Alright, the question is were you mad at Travis while you were stabbing him?
A: I don't remember being angry that way, I remember being terrified
M: Objection
J: I'm going to sustain the objection, I think you've answered the question
114) How is it that you remember so many of your sexual encounters including your ex-boyfriends, but you do not remember stabbing Travis and dragging his body?
A: Well as far as what happened on June 4th, I don't know how the mind works necessarily, but I know that was the most traumatic experience of my life and outside of those blanks and the ones that I've mentioned as being alcohol related when I was a teenager, I don't have other blackouts that I can call when memories get foggy when I get stressful. I think actually that I have a very good memory. I can remember tons of things, but when I'm under a stressful situation it's like my mind, if you can imagine a computer that freezes, it's turned on but it's not functioning you can hit the keys, nothings happenings. Just like the sound waves are hitting my ears but the brain is not computing, it's kind of like that. So I don't blackout during those time but my mind is not processing the English words that are being said to me, or screamed at me, or whichever.
115) During cross examination, you were asked if you were crying when you stabbed Travis and you said no. How do you know that if you had a memory gap at that time.
A: I think that was misunderstood, I said I don't know and I know that I was crying when I said that and maybe I didn't speak up clearly enough but I said I don't know, not no.
116) You stated you bought a gun to commit suicide, but never ended up doing it. What stopped you from doing so?
A: I was going to wait until I left Yreka and got to Selenas or Monterey area so that it didn't happen right in my families own backyard so to speak and I was leaving for that area the morning I was arrested actually
117) You stated you would not want kids with Travis because you would be worried about them. If that is the case, why did you tell Leslie you couldn't wait until your kids and Travis's kids could play together at future PPL events?
A: Um, I wanted Travis to be viewed in a positive light and I know that he wanted to be viewed in a positive light. I didn't want to de-edify him, especially at the moment when I made those statements. And also, prior to June 4th, that was a hope of mine. It wasn't that I couldn't wait, it's just that sometimes PPL events would be family oriented and I would hope that our families would be able to be cordial and kind, not that we would ultimately be very close, but that was a hope that someday we could be happy for each other in our respective marriages and I didn't want to say anything bad about him.
118) A lot of your answers to the questions you were asked made it seem like you put Travis's feelings and priorities before your own. If that were true why didn't you call for help after you shot Travis?
A: Usually his priorities went before mine when it was something that he wanted. When the gun went off, I didn't know that I had shot him, I thought it hit a wall. So as far as not calling 911, immediately after it was not an option. He lunged at me and we fell and wrestled for a quick second before I broke away. And then as far as not calling 911, like I said I can't explain my state of mind immediately following, it was basically fear based as far as not calling any authority, telling any authority at all.
119) Why did you decide to tell the truth 2 years after the killing?
A: It took two years um because I was very deeply ashamed of what had happened, I used to consider people who were violent in any form, somewhat unevolved, that's how I looked at it, and now I was that kind of person to a very extreme degree and I was horrified with myself and very ashamed. And it wasn't the kind of person I was trying to portray to the world, as well as who I believed I ever could be inside or out. However as time went on and I evolved and I matured and gained more perspective as things get farther away. There were a lot of people that reached out to me and offered support because they believed in my stupid story and I felt very bad for that because they were there for me and they wanted to offer moral support and I felt fraudulent the more, the farther things got. At first it was like, yeah, okay I'm gonna be dead soon so I don't have to answer that and then it started off as a secret I wanted to take to the grave with me and then it became one that I didnt want to keep anymore. It wasn't an overnight decision, it was a very gradual and it just, and it just I felt fraudulent, you start just feeling, I mean obviously I did from the beginning but it becomes a really yucky feeling inside, it doesn't feel good.
120) What made you change your mind and tell everyone about Travis's secret: the child picture?
A: Well, the first time I decided to was when I was talking to a psychologist from California and we were exploring the dynamics of our relationship. And it took me a long time but several months beyond that I told other people. It became, I had made a promise to him that I would never say anything. He made a promise the he would get help. I wanted to keep my promise. I didn't want to throw mud on him, he was it's not like he was a threat that anything was gonna happen to any children at this point why even go there, why tell anyone, but it was such a huge part of our relationship and that everything thereafter changed, everything. So When I realized in retrospect I don't even think he upheld his end of the bargain, I felt less obligated to keep that secret and also it changed everything in our relationship and leaving that element out, it's like a huge missing piece of the puzzle of how things ultimately evolved the way they did.
121) You said you were sick to your stomach when you saw Travis with child pictures, so why did you sleep with him again?
A: Well, after throwing up a few times that day, I wanted to talk to him and give him a chance to explain what was going on and so we ended up getting together later on after FHE, much later in the evening and he gave me a tearful explanation and I felt more sympathetic toward him than disgusted at that point because of how he explained it to me.
122) Would you classify your relationship with Travis Alexander as a love-hate relationship?
A: It certainly had all the emotions of a love-hate relationship, but I never felt that I hated Travis. I screamed it out one time when he wasn't present after a really mean phone call, but I never felt hatred toward Travis although we had those ups and downs that were pretty extreme.
123) On June 4 2008 after you got up and ran toward the closet is it possible that Travis picked up the camera on the bathroom floor and moved it?
A: Yeah and to clarify I didn't run toward the closet, I ran down the hall right after I rolled away from him, and that's completely possible and that's an idea I've entertained also, but I didn't see anything. I just kinda didn't look back.
124)Could that also explain the delay in his arrival and his anger at the closet door threshold?
A: Would that be the camera related
J: Yes
A: It certainly could, the delay, maybe the floor was wet and I don't know if it was just the traction of him getting down the hallway, I don't know, but the camera, I don't even remember how the camera ended up where it did so I don't know if he picked it up and inspected it or how it got kicked around or if it got kicked around, that kind of thing.
A: Probably, well none that I've seen that have been recovered but there would be some in text messages, I texted Daryl a lot, I texted my little brother.
M: Objection
J: Approach, please
Did you call any men you did not have romantic interest in hottie biscotti in text messages, emails, or instant messages?
A: Yes, in text messages, not the other
J: In text messages?
A: Yes
111) If you were not going to marry Travis because of the Jan 21, 2008 and Jan 22, 2008 events, why stay with him at all?
A: It was difficult to stay away from him it was difficult to break away from him and when he would invite me over it was very hard to stay no. He was persuasive and he still had an effect on me that when I came over when he was in a good mood it made me feel good and I enjoyed being with him during those times. And that's something I was familiar with
112) Do you feel the guys in your life cheated on you because you were controlling?
A: I feel it was just the opposite. I feel they cheated on me because I was too tolerant. I was very trusting, implicitly trusting and very naive. I gave them the freedom to do what they wanted when they wanted and I think they took advantage of that.
113) Were you mad at Travis when you were stabbing him?
A: I don't recall fear being a prominent, I mean sorry, I don't recall angry being a prominent
M: Objection, she said she can't remember if she does remember she should tell us
A: I remember the emotions, Judge
J: Alright, the question is were you mad at Travis while you were stabbing him?
A: I don't remember being angry that way, I remember being terrified
M: Objection
J: I'm going to sustain the objection, I think you've answered the question
114) How is it that you remember so many of your sexual encounters including your ex-boyfriends, but you do not remember stabbing Travis and dragging his body?
A: Well as far as what happened on June 4th, I don't know how the mind works necessarily, but I know that was the most traumatic experience of my life and outside of those blanks and the ones that I've mentioned as being alcohol related when I was a teenager, I don't have other blackouts that I can call when memories get foggy when I get stressful. I think actually that I have a very good memory. I can remember tons of things, but when I'm under a stressful situation it's like my mind, if you can imagine a computer that freezes, it's turned on but it's not functioning you can hit the keys, nothings happenings. Just like the sound waves are hitting my ears but the brain is not computing, it's kind of like that. So I don't blackout during those time but my mind is not processing the English words that are being said to me, or screamed at me, or whichever.
115) During cross examination, you were asked if you were crying when you stabbed Travis and you said no. How do you know that if you had a memory gap at that time.
A: I think that was misunderstood, I said I don't know and I know that I was crying when I said that and maybe I didn't speak up clearly enough but I said I don't know, not no.
116) You stated you bought a gun to commit suicide, but never ended up doing it. What stopped you from doing so?
A: I was going to wait until I left Yreka and got to Selenas or Monterey area so that it didn't happen right in my families own backyard so to speak and I was leaving for that area the morning I was arrested actually
117) You stated you would not want kids with Travis because you would be worried about them. If that is the case, why did you tell Leslie you couldn't wait until your kids and Travis's kids could play together at future PPL events?
A: Um, I wanted Travis to be viewed in a positive light and I know that he wanted to be viewed in a positive light. I didn't want to de-edify him, especially at the moment when I made those statements. And also, prior to June 4th, that was a hope of mine. It wasn't that I couldn't wait, it's just that sometimes PPL events would be family oriented and I would hope that our families would be able to be cordial and kind, not that we would ultimately be very close, but that was a hope that someday we could be happy for each other in our respective marriages and I didn't want to say anything bad about him.
118) A lot of your answers to the questions you were asked made it seem like you put Travis's feelings and priorities before your own. If that were true why didn't you call for help after you shot Travis?
A: Usually his priorities went before mine when it was something that he wanted. When the gun went off, I didn't know that I had shot him, I thought it hit a wall. So as far as not calling 911, immediately after it was not an option. He lunged at me and we fell and wrestled for a quick second before I broke away. And then as far as not calling 911, like I said I can't explain my state of mind immediately following, it was basically fear based as far as not calling any authority, telling any authority at all.
119) Why did you decide to tell the truth 2 years after the killing?
A: It took two years um because I was very deeply ashamed of what had happened, I used to consider people who were violent in any form, somewhat unevolved, that's how I looked at it, and now I was that kind of person to a very extreme degree and I was horrified with myself and very ashamed. And it wasn't the kind of person I was trying to portray to the world, as well as who I believed I ever could be inside or out. However as time went on and I evolved and I matured and gained more perspective as things get farther away. There were a lot of people that reached out to me and offered support because they believed in my stupid story and I felt very bad for that because they were there for me and they wanted to offer moral support and I felt fraudulent the more, the farther things got. At first it was like, yeah, okay I'm gonna be dead soon so I don't have to answer that and then it started off as a secret I wanted to take to the grave with me and then it became one that I didnt want to keep anymore. It wasn't an overnight decision, it was a very gradual and it just, and it just I felt fraudulent, you start just feeling, I mean obviously I did from the beginning but it becomes a really yucky feeling inside, it doesn't feel good.
120) What made you change your mind and tell everyone about Travis's secret: the child picture?
A: Well, the first time I decided to was when I was talking to a psychologist from California and we were exploring the dynamics of our relationship. And it took me a long time but several months beyond that I told other people. It became, I had made a promise to him that I would never say anything. He made a promise the he would get help. I wanted to keep my promise. I didn't want to throw mud on him, he was it's not like he was a threat that anything was gonna happen to any children at this point why even go there, why tell anyone, but it was such a huge part of our relationship and that everything thereafter changed, everything. So When I realized in retrospect I don't even think he upheld his end of the bargain, I felt less obligated to keep that secret and also it changed everything in our relationship and leaving that element out, it's like a huge missing piece of the puzzle of how things ultimately evolved the way they did.
121) You said you were sick to your stomach when you saw Travis with child pictures, so why did you sleep with him again?
A: Well, after throwing up a few times that day, I wanted to talk to him and give him a chance to explain what was going on and so we ended up getting together later on after FHE, much later in the evening and he gave me a tearful explanation and I felt more sympathetic toward him than disgusted at that point because of how he explained it to me.
122) Would you classify your relationship with Travis Alexander as a love-hate relationship?
A: It certainly had all the emotions of a love-hate relationship, but I never felt that I hated Travis. I screamed it out one time when he wasn't present after a really mean phone call, but I never felt hatred toward Travis although we had those ups and downs that were pretty extreme.
123) On June 4 2008 after you got up and ran toward the closet is it possible that Travis picked up the camera on the bathroom floor and moved it?
A: Yeah and to clarify I didn't run toward the closet, I ran down the hall right after I rolled away from him, and that's completely possible and that's an idea I've entertained also, but I didn't see anything. I just kinda didn't look back.
124)Could that also explain the delay in his arrival and his anger at the closet door threshold?
A: Would that be the camera related
J: Yes
A: It certainly could, the delay, maybe the floor was wet and I don't know if it was just the traction of him getting down the hallway, I don't know, but the camera, I don't even remember how the camera ended up where it did so I don't know if he picked it up and inspected it or how it got kicked around or if it got kicked around, that kind of thing.
KMouse
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Additional Jury Questions from March 7, 2013
Why would you hypothesize about filling a third gas can?
You stated today that you did not have professional help when dealing with your issues yet yesterday you mentioned talking to a psychiatrist about Travis' child issues.
You say you waited two years to tell the truth because you were ashamed. Does that mean you are no longer ashamed?
Did you look into a possibility of renting a GPS system when renting the rental car?
In the story of the man and woman attacking Travis you mention talking to him and also mention was T being on all fours. Do you in fact rmember any of those things?
You claim that everything happened so fast and you didn't have time to think so why did you grab the gun from the closet?
How can you say that you don't have memory issues when you stabbed him so many times and slit his throat?
Did Mr. Martinez cause you to shake during his questioning?
Can you please provide an estimate of how many times during the current trial?
After all the lies you have told, why should we believe you now?
What happened to the suicide letters you wrote to your Grandmother?
How can you kiss another man when you knew what you just did to Travis?
Were you in the fog when you were kissing Ryan?
Would you agree that you came away from the June 4th incident unscathed while Travis had a gunshot, his throat cut and stab wounds? (last part is paraphrased)
Nurmi Followup
KN:you were asked about receiving the book of Mormon from T and you had said you read a chapter a day, and there are some other questions that brought up the visits from the missionairies, the basis of some of these questions related to the law of chastity, one of the things you talked about as it related to the book of Mormon, does that contain a sort of list, as it related to premarital sex, activites that are okay or not okay?
JA: it's broad, ????
KN: for example the book of Mormon does not say that oral sex is okay or not okay. It does not spell it out.
JA: correct
You mention the missionairies being younger men that came to your house. And this kind of do's and don'ts list that wasn't in the book of Mormon did they give you anything of that nature?
JA: no, I had pamphlets and as far as the law of chastity goes that was not broken down
KN: when they explained to you from your answers that your take away was penile/vaginal
JA: I considered all kinds of sex, sex but when T explained it, vaginal sex was a place to not go until marriage.
KN: and in terms of going to this place of penile/vaginal intercourse, after these missionaries coming over were you still engaging in sex with DB?
JA: no
KN: part of what he heard in your questioning is that T served to provide you with elaboration if you will on the law of chastity.
JA: yeah he delineated it more
KN: so using oral sex as a continued example, oral sex is okay or not okay, he kind of provided that checklist for you
JA: yes
KN: and based on his teachings if you will, you came away from that, that the law of chastity only prevented penile/vaginal intercourse. after Travis taught you these things
JA: the law of chastity prohibited vaginal intercourse between a man and a woman and that it should be saved for marriage
KN: we heard as you answered these questions, that a guiding principal in your life was the law of attaction, and one of the things that came up, you also started talking about the secret. Is the secret part of the law of attraction?
JA: the secret is a film that came out in 2006. it's exactly the same thing. (book and movie)
KN: is that something you and Travis watched together?
JA: yes, he introduced me to the movie.
KN: but the law of attraction was something you were familiar with before?
JA: yes
KN: now we talked a little bit yesterday about your breakups with your boyfriends and I want to go back through that a little bit. You began with Bobby Juarez, you were 15?
JA: yes
KN: and you said you broke up with him and got back together a few times over the years. Can you explain that?
JA: I broke up with him because I felt the relationship was getting too serious and then after a few years I called him and then he called me back and then...there as a girl that came from Louisiana. and we were always breaking up and getting back together. When I went to Costa Rica that was 8 days I thought that was enough but he came to my job.
KN: and this conversation you just spoke of when you were in a phone booth, how old were you?
JA: I was 19, almost 20
KN: you spoke about this occasion when you gave him groceries after you broke up. Was this before this phone call or after?
JA: it was during one of the several break ups we had. it was before the phone call.
KN: after the phone booth call, you didn't make any other attempts
KN: You were asked about Victor Arias. It sounds like Victor was a gentleman sometime when you were in an off time with Juarez.
JA: it was during a time when I thought I would never see Bobby again
KN: you were asked about a trip you made to spend time with Victor's family in Costa Rica, what were the circumstances? You met Victor in Costa Rica?
JA: I met Victor when I was 16. It was right after my sophmore year and there were posters at the school, I told my parents I was going to Costa Rica and I worked at my Dads restaurant
it was an exchange program, they have some kind of rotating semester system and did extra curricular activities on the weekend.
met Victor during that time
KN: and so when you went to visit, we talked about the continued correspondence with Victor, was there continued communication with his family?
JA: yes, we would email. Victor would email my Mom.
KN: when you went back to Costa Rica was that to rekindle things with Victor?
JA: I was interested in maintaining a friendship, not romantic
KN: you also had a breakup with MM, and we heard about the conversation you had with Bianca and how he was unfaithful to you, that breakup then you had a conversation with MM after you spoke to Bianca.
JA: ummm I went to his father's house and when I show...arrived we...and we went into my car that was parked on the street and had a conversation, we both hugged and cried, we were both sad. it wasn't volatile.
KN: as far as after that conversation when you broke up did you disconnect yourself from MM for a while? did you still converse?
JA: after I sent him a really long email, part of the way I processed it was by writing everything down, I sent him the email about our relationship and how I felt. we talked on the phone but that was after a month.
KN: and afterwards a friendship built?
JA: I don't remember rekindling but he was looking for work and when he knew I was going to be staying in a campground he came with me, not as an intention to get back together with me, he was looking for work.
KN: you mentioned and it was questioned of you yesterday this idea that eventually, this man you were involved with sexually, was more like your brother, is h
JA; with time progressing and the separating, in spring 2002, the restuarant closed and MM's income went away so he moved to Vale Colorado, so I stayed there to earn a little bit of money and then when the season...MM came back to Ventana, and with that space I think he had a trailer and I went over there and we laughed and joked and he thought my blonde hair,
***we don't even really hug..or then we didn't***(slip up there???)
that was then and we are different now
and we are able to maintain a friendship.
LUNCH RECESS
Why would you hypothesize about filling a third gas can?
You stated today that you did not have professional help when dealing with your issues yet yesterday you mentioned talking to a psychiatrist about Travis' child
issues.You say you waited two years to tell the truth because you were ashamed. Does that mean you are no longer ashamed?
Did you look into a possibility of renting a GPS system when renting the rental car?
In the story of the man and woman attacking Travis you mention talking to him and also mention was T being on all fours. Do you in fact rmember any of those things?
You claim that everything happened so fast and you didn't have time to think so why did you grab the gun from the closet?
How can you say that you don't have memory issues when you stabbed him so many times and slit his throat?
Did Mr. Martinez cause you to shake during his questioning?
Can you please provide an estimate of how many times during the current trial?
After all the lies you have told, why should we believe you now?
What happened to the suicide letters you wrote to your Grandmother?
How can you kiss another man when you knew what you just did to Travis?
Were you in the fog when you were kissing Ryan?
Would you agree that you came away from the June 4th incident unscathed while Travis had a gunshot, his throat cut and stab wounds? (last part is paraphrased)
Nurmi Followup
KN:you were asked about receiving the book of Mormon from T and you had said you read a chapter a day, and there are some other questions that brought up the visits from the missionairies, the basis of some of these questions related to the law of chastity, one of the things you talked about as it related to the book of Mormon, does that contain a sort of list, as it related to premarital sex, activites that are okay or not okay?
JA: it's broad, ????
KN: for example the book of Mormon does not say that oral sex is okay or not okay. It does not spell it out.
JA: correct
You mention the missionairies being younger men that came to your house. And this kind of do's and don'ts list that wasn't in the book of Mormon did they give you anything of that nature?
JA: no, I had pamphlets and as far as the law of chastity goes that was not broken down
KN: when they explained to you from your answers that your take away was penile/vaginal
JA: I considered all kinds of sex, sex but when T explained it, vaginal sex was a place to not go until marriage.
KN: and in terms of going to this place of penile/vaginal intercourse, after these missionaries coming over were you still engaging in sex with DB?
JA: no
KN: part of what he heard in your questioning is that T served to provide you with elaboration if you will on the law of chastity.
JA: yeah he delineated it more
KN: so using oral sex as a continued example, oral sex is okay or not okay, he kind of provided that checklist for you
JA: yes
KN: and based on his teachings if you will, you came away from that, that the law of chastity only prevented penile/vaginal intercourse. after Travis taught you these things
JA: the law of chastity prohibited vaginal intercourse between a man and a woman and that it should be saved for marriage
KN: we heard as you answered these questions, that a guiding principal in your life was the law of attaction, and one of the things that came up, you also started talking about the secret. Is the secret part of the law of attraction?
JA: the secret is a film that came out in 2006. it's exactly the same thing. (book and movie)
KN: is that something you and Travis watched together?
JA: yes, he introduced me to the movie.
KN: but the law of attraction was something you were familiar with before?
JA: yes
KN: now we talked a little bit yesterday about your breakups with your boyfriends and I want to go back through that a little bit. You began with Bobby Juarez, you were 15?
JA: yes
KN: and you said you broke up with him and got back together a few times over the years. Can you explain that?
JA: I broke up with him because I felt the relationship was getting too serious and then after a few years I called him and then he called me back and then...there as a girl that came from Louisiana. and we were always breaking up and getting back together. When I went to Costa Rica that was 8 days I thought that was enough but he came to my job.
KN: and this conversation you just spoke of when you were in a phone booth, how old were you?
JA: I was 19, almost 20
KN: you spoke about this occasion when you gave him groceries after you broke up. Was this before this phone call or after?
JA: it was during one of the several break ups we had. it was before the phone call.
KN: after the phone booth call, you didn't make any other attempts
KN: You were asked about Victor Arias. It sounds like Victor was a gentleman sometime when you were in an off time with Juarez.
JA: it was during a time when I thought I would never see Bobby again
KN: you were asked about a trip you made to spend time with Victor's family in Costa Rica, what were the circumstances? You met Victor in Costa Rica?
JA: I met Victor when I was 16. It was right after my sophmore year and there were posters at the school, I told my parents I was going to Costa Rica and I worked at my Dads restaurant
it was an exchange program, they have some kind of rotating semester system and did extra curricular activities on the weekend.
met Victor during that time
KN: and so when you went to visit, we talked about the continued correspondence with Victor, was there continued communication with his family?
JA: yes, we would email. Victor would email my Mom.
KN: when you went back to Costa Rica was that to rekindle things with Victor?
JA: I was interested in maintaining a friendship, not romantic
KN: you also had a breakup with MM, and we heard about the conversation you had with Bianca and how he was unfaithful to you, that breakup then you had a conversation with MM after you spoke to Bianca.
JA: ummm I went to his father's house and when I show...arrived we...and we went into my car that was parked on the street and had a conversation, we both hugged and cried, we were both sad. it wasn't volatile.
KN: as far as after that conversation when you broke up did you disconnect yourself from MM for a while? did you still converse?
JA: after I sent him a really long email, part of the way I processed it was by writing everything down, I sent him the email about our relationship and how I felt. we talked on the phone but that was after a month.
KN: and afterwards a friendship built?
JA: I don't remember rekindling but he was looking for work and when he knew I was going to be staying in a campground he came with me, not as an intention to get back together with me, he was looking for work.
KN: you mentioned and it was questioned of you yesterday this idea that eventually, this man you were involved with sexually, was more like your brother, is h
JA; with time progressing and the separating, in spring 2002, the restuarant closed and MM's income went away so he moved to Vale Colorado, so I stayed there to earn a little bit of money and then when the season...MM came back to Ventana, and with that space I think he had a trailer and I went over there and we laughed and joked and he thought my blonde hair,
***we don't even really hug..or then we didn't***(slip up there???)
that was then and we are different now
and we are able to maintain a friendship.
LUNCH RECESS
Juror Questions 124-144
(This is my second # 124 but since it is 124 on hellinor's question list, I'm going to stick with that to make things less complicated. Thanks, hellinor!)
124: Given that there are guiding principles such as the law of attraction and practices like passing down journals to future generations do you feel the Mormon religion encourages burying the truth about issues that may be considered embarrassing?
A: Encourages bearing (burying? I can't tell) the truth?
J: Yes
A: Well to be clear, the Law of Attraction and the Mormon Church are two separate animals. They intertwine in some ways in certain scripture, but they are completely separate. In Mormonism, being a religion, um I felt there was an unspoken undercurrent in the church which puts pressure on members to present a squeaky clean image, however, I know that's not church policy, even though you feel that pressure when you're in the church, my understanding of official church policy is if you have transgressed in anyway no matter how embarrassing, and if it's a serious transgression, it's dealt internally within the church, internally inside but also with any church authority such as your bishop or any other appropriate church authority. The Law of Attraction, the way I embraced it four or five years ago, I was in denial. I didn't want to deal with the negative things I was going through because I felt that by dealing with them, I would be focusing on them and then that would attract more of them, rather than dealing with them in a healthy way to eradicate them. So...I kind of lost track of the question.
J: The question was do you feel the Mormon church encourages burying the truth about issues that may be considered embarrassing?*
A: The Mormon religion, yes, you are encouraged always to tell the truth no matter how bad it is. That doesn't mean broadcasting it, but going through the appropriate channels for repentance.
125: Can you give a few examples of what might be considered negative other than those already discussed?
A: Negative experiences
J: It says negative information through journals.
A: Well, I don't know that that means specifically to me, but other than violating the chastity, violence, that kind of thing. Words that you speak, um there's doctrine in the church which says that every word that flows from our mouth we will be held accountable for those words one day, um, so that's an example of something negative. I know some Mormon's that drink, that's an example of something negative. I know gay Mormons and homosexuality is prohibited in the church, that's something the Church considers negative, it's not my philosophy. Um, there are things to that effect, plenty of things that are going on, so I mean I guess there would be an example as far as the homosexuality goes because Travis wanted to have a threesome with another woman and I wasn't, I mean I'm not gay, but it was something I was contemplating going along with, so that, obviously, in addition to the sexual sin depending on what interaction I may or may not have had with that woman could also be a violation of another law in that regard.
126: How do you determine when you will tell the truth and when you will not tell the truth? What are the determining factors?
A: Anything that related back to my involvement in Travis's death or de-edifying him in any way, I covered up, or I attempted to cover up. So the lies that I told after all this happened were directly related to those two main things.
127: When did you find Travis's gun?
A: It would have been October, November sometime in the fall, it was before Christmas 2007, I know it was before Christmas I don't remember the exact time in the fall
J: Was it kept loaded in the closet?
A: He told me
M: Objection, hearsay
A: He assured me
M: Objection, hearsay
J: Sustained Wait for another question
128: Today, March 5, 2013, you stated before lunch that you think you filled the car up first. If you did have the third gas can, as we saw in several hypothetical situations after lunch, do you see if possible to put 8.301 gallons of gas in the car (exhibit 237.011) and the 9.59 gallons and 2.774 gallons for a total of 12.368 gallons in the remaining three gas cans. Exhibits 237.011, 237.012 and 237.013?
A: Okay that was a lot of elements to that question. First, I didn't have three gas cans
M: Objection,
J: Overruled
A: I didn't have three gas cans, I believe we were discussing hypothetical if I had three gas cans, no it wouldnt make sense to put only 2 gallons and change into only one gas can while filling up the others. And as far as whether I think I filled up the car first or not, I honestly don't know what came first. I do remember having the fear of filling the gas can, overfilling them because I didn't want overflow because it's a highly flammable substance, so I remember that so I can't say that I filled them all the way to their maximum capacity or not. Um, but I wouldnt have only put two gallons in one if I filled up two more, I only had two anyway, so there were never three on that trip when I pulled out of Salinas.
129: You initially testified that sex was a way for Travis to relieve stress and later testified it was a way for him to relieve anger, which is correct?
A: Both are correct, um, anger was stressful and he used the term de-stress and sex was a way to de stress and it seemed like after he climaxed that he felt a lot more calm.
J: How do you know that?
A: Based on his demeanor and conversations we had regarding that and requests that he's made specifically to that of that nature and the term de-stressed.
130: Would a screwdriver be required to take of the license plates?
A: I heard
M: Objection, hearsay
J: Sustained. Would a screwdriver be required to take of the license plates.
A: I believe so because Ryan had to borrow a screwdriver to
M: Objection, hearsay
J: Sustained, sustained
131: Did you find it strange that only your license plate was messed with in that parking lot?
A: I don't know that only my license plate was messed with.
132: IF you were driving to a place that you had never been before, meaning Utah, why wouldn't you map out the different towns that would have gas stations or rest stations?
A: I did go to mapquest to determine the number of hours it might take and I printed out mapquest directions and I also printed out mapquest directions from San Diego to West Jordan as well as Pasadena or Los Angeles whichever area to West Jordan. Um, I wouldn't know what website to even visit, I guess I just could have gone to google and typed in where are the gas stations on I5 to bring all that up, I'm not aware of a website that specifically shows those things, that's for that purpose, I only know of mapquest and I printed directions that way because I relied on my GPS all these years, but I wasn't going to be taking that car with the GPS which usually just guided me and could tell me where the gas stations were.
133: Did you ever see a doctor for your memory issues?
A: I don't believe that I have memory issues that are really persistent, I just have trouble processing things under special circumstances. And June 4th is kind of in a class of it's own. And outside of those things I feel like I have a really good memory and I never thought to seek medical help or any kind of professional help for that.
134: If you were scared of Travis's anger and violence, why would you go upstairs while he was banging his head knowing he was already mad?
A: Well, Travis had never, one I didn't know he was banging head, I just knew what the steadying noise was, it was kind of a pounding, not incredibly loud, but loud enough to hear it from downstairs and two he had never been violent prior to that. I mean it wasn't violent, the only time he'd been physical was when he grabbed my wrist at the convention, so I didn't really fear physical harm from him at that point in time.
135: Did Travis ever tell you he kept his gun loaded?
A: He told me at one time that he did consider loading it, but he assured me that it was unloaded
136: If you did not think the gun was loaded, why chance grabbing a gun that may not be loaded instead of just running outside?
A: I grabbed the gun, not because I intended to shoot him, I grabbed the gun because my thought is that if a gun is pointed, you stop, whether it's loaded or not, I've always been taught you don't point guns at people, period, just as a safety precaution. So I can only imagine what I would do in that situation, if a gun were pointed at me, I would stop, and I was hoping that it would have that effect on him.
137: You stated that when you walked out of Starbucks you did not notice anything wrong with the car. How is it that the back license plate ended upside down?
A: I didn't see anyone turning anyone turning my license late upside down, nor did I notice the license plate when I walked out. What I noticed was kids skating away from my car. It's possible it could have happened
M: Objection
A: It's possible it could have happened at any point on my trip, I could have even rented the car that way
M: Objection
J: Sustained
138: Why did you plan on going to see John Dixon when you were on your way to Utah to see Ryan?
A: John Dixon was a friend, um, although there was somewhat of an interest there is was something that I never let grow because he wasn't a church member so it would be kind of a poor investment of my heart to get attached to somebody that wasn't a member of the church. What I was going down there for was he had a friend who either owned a gallery or ran a gallery where he hung some of the greats which is Van Gogh and Monet and when I told him I painted he said We could make a space in this gallery for you, I could hang it right next to a Monet and Van Gogh. It sounded like a very big, it sounded like a very exciting thing for me because one of my goals at that time was to get my paintings into galleries.
139: How many men are you willing to be involved with at the same time?
A: Well, it depends on the level of intimacy. As far as a boyfriend, I have one boyfriend at a time, an intimate partner, one at a time. In the church
M: Objection, unresponsive, N: Explaining about her beliefs
J: Overruled
A: In the church you're encouraged to date around and find somebody you might be compatible with and not to get too serious with somebody that you don't think you would be very compatible with. So Mormons are encouraged to go on group dates and not spend too much time together with only one person unless you are certain you are going to get serious with that person.
140: Did you ever seek medical help for you mental condition?
A: I'm not sure what mental condition that refers to.
J: Have you ever taken medication for your memory issue?
A: No
J: Did you ever tell anyone about your condition prior to the killing?
A: I don't really thing I had much of a condition prior to the killing. Just, I mean, I have ADD I think because I space out
M: Objection
J: Sustained
141: You told us you weren't able to make out the license plate leaning up against the curb because you are nearsighted and did not get glasses until 2010. What is your prescription in each eye?
A: My understanding is my prescription is -2.5 and -2.25
142: Is there anyone who saw you shaking during a fight with Travis?
A: Dan, Dan saw me visibly upset after, um, but I don't think anybody say us fighting during, at least to the level of fights where it would cause me to shake.
143: Do any of your journal entries or any other items discuss you shaking, or blacking out or getting scrambled?
A: Possibly illusions to getting scrambled, but I have not blacked out, except like I said those two times, when I, that were alcohol induced. One time I did induce blacking out with some friends but it was earlier than that and that was a one time incident, but I didn't journal blacking out because there were no incidents during those times that I was journaling and shaking, I shoe but I wrote, but I didn't write that I was shaking, so probably only when I got scrambled, there were times that I would write things.
144: You claim to have memory lapses or gaps during times of stress such as when you're being yelled at or grilled. How is it you have such vivid and specific memories of violence and yelling by Travis such a long time ago if this is the case?
A: With the violence it's not that I have to process the English language, I feel those things. I know he broke my finger because it's still broken, well it's healed but it's crooked. I know he choked me out because I woke up from being unconscious. As far as him yelling, I know he's yelling because there's a loud volume and it has an effect on me, I don't know all the things he said, for example, the night he was, said disparaging things about my grandfather and my brother, those stand out, that's all I can remember of the three hour session of him screaming at me before I was able to leave. So many things were said. Mean things. And I didn't process them all some I wrote down and that's when he made me tear them out, so I didn't write them after that.
(This is my second # 124 but since it is 124 on hellinor's question list, I'm going to stick with that to make things less complicated. Thanks, hellinor!)
124: Given that there are guiding principles such as the law of attraction and practices like passing down journals to future generations do you feel the Mormon religion encourages burying the truth about issues that may be considered embarrassing?
A: Encourages bearing (burying? I can't tell) the truth?
J: Yes
A: Well to be clear, the Law of Attraction and the Mormon Church are two separate animals. They intertwine in some ways in certain scripture, but they are completely separate. In Mormonism, being a religion, um I felt there was an unspoken undercurrent in the church which puts pressure on members to present a squeaky clean image, however, I know that's not church policy, even though you feel that pressure when you're in the church, my understanding of official church policy is if you have transgressed in anyway no matter how embarrassing, and if it's a serious transgression, it's dealt internally within the church, internally inside but also with any church authority such as your bishop or any other appropriate church authority. The Law of Attraction, the way I embraced it four or five years ago, I was in denial. I didn't want to deal with the negative things I was going through because I felt that by dealing with them, I would be focusing on them and then that would attract more of them, rather than dealing with them in a healthy way to eradicate them. So...I kind of lost track of the question.
J: The question was do you feel the Mormon church encourages burying the truth about issues that may be considered embarrassing?*
A: The Mormon religion, yes, you are encouraged always to tell the truth no matter how bad it is. That doesn't mean broadcasting it, but going through the appropriate channels for repentance.
125: Can you give a few examples of what might be considered negative other than those already discussed?
A: Negative experiences
J: It says negative information through journals.
A: Well, I don't know that that means specifically to me, but other than violating the chastity, violence, that kind of thing. Words that you speak, um there's doctrine in the church which says that every word that flows from our mouth we will be held accountable for those words one day, um, so that's an example of something negative. I know some Mormon's that drink, that's an example of something negative. I know gay Mormons and homosexuality is prohibited in the church, that's something the Church considers negative, it's not my philosophy. Um, there are things to that effect, plenty of things that are going on, so I mean I guess there would be an example as far as the homosexuality goes because Travis wanted to have a threesome with another woman and I wasn't, I mean I'm not gay, but it was something I was contemplating going along with, so that, obviously, in addition to the sexual sin depending on what interaction I may or may not have had with that woman could also be a violation of another law in that regard.
126: How do you determine when you will tell the truth and when you will not tell the truth? What are the determining factors?
A: Anything that related back to my involvement in Travis's death or de-edifying him in any way, I covered up, or I attempted to cover up. So the lies that I told after all this happened were directly related to those two main things.
127: When did you find Travis's gun?
A: It would have been October, November sometime in the fall, it was before Christmas 2007, I know it was before Christmas I don't remember the exact time in the fall
J: Was it kept loaded in the closet?
A: He told me
M: Objection, hearsay
A: He assured me
M: Objection, hearsay
J: Sustained Wait for another question
128: Today, March 5, 2013, you stated before lunch that you think you filled the car up first. If you did have the third gas can, as we saw in several hypothetical situations after lunch, do you see if possible to put 8.301 gallons of gas in the car (exhibit 237.011) and the 9.59 gallons and 2.774 gallons for a total of 12.368 gallons in the remaining three gas cans. Exhibits 237.011, 237.012 and 237.013?
A: Okay that was a lot of elements to that question. First, I didn't have three gas cans
M: Objection,
J: Overruled
A: I didn't have three gas cans, I believe we were discussing hypothetical if I had three gas cans, no it wouldnt make sense to put only 2 gallons and change into only one gas can while filling up the others. And as far as whether I think I filled up the car first or not, I honestly don't know what came first. I do remember having the fear of filling the gas can, overfilling them because I didn't want overflow because it's a highly flammable substance, so I remember that so I can't say that I filled them all the way to their maximum capacity or not. Um, but I wouldnt have only put two gallons in one if I filled up two more, I only had two anyway, so there were never three on that trip when I pulled out of Salinas.
129: You initially testified that sex was a way for Travis to relieve stress and later testified it was a way for him to relieve anger, which is correct?
A: Both are correct, um, anger was stressful and he used the term de-stress and sex was a way to de stress and it seemed like after he climaxed that he felt a lot more calm.
J: How do you know that?
A: Based on his demeanor and conversations we had regarding that and requests that he's made specifically to that of that nature and the term de-stressed.
130: Would a screwdriver be required to take of the license plates?
A: I heard
M: Objection, hearsay
J: Sustained. Would a screwdriver be required to take of the license plates.
A: I believe so because Ryan had to borrow a screwdriver to
M: Objection, hearsay
J: Sustained, sustained
131: Did you find it strange that only your license plate was messed with in that parking lot?
A: I don't know that only my license plate was messed with.
132: IF you were driving to a place that you had never been before, meaning Utah, why wouldn't you map out the different towns that would have gas stations or rest stations?
A: I did go to mapquest to determine the number of hours it might take and I printed out mapquest directions and I also printed out mapquest directions from San Diego to West Jordan as well as Pasadena or Los Angeles whichever area to West Jordan. Um, I wouldn't know what website to even visit, I guess I just could have gone to google and typed in where are the gas stations on I5 to bring all that up, I'm not aware of a website that specifically shows those things, that's for that purpose, I only know of mapquest and I printed directions that way because I relied on my GPS all these years, but I wasn't going to be taking that car with the GPS which usually just guided me and could tell me where the gas stations were.
133: Did you ever see a doctor for your memory issues?
A: I don't believe that I have memory issues that are really persistent, I just have trouble processing things under special circumstances. And June 4th is kind of in a class of it's own. And outside of those things I feel like I have a really good memory and I never thought to seek medical help or any kind of professional help for that.
134: If you were scared of Travis's anger and violence, why would you go upstairs while he was banging his head knowing he was already mad?
A: Well, Travis had never, one I didn't know he was banging head, I just knew what the steadying noise was, it was kind of a pounding, not incredibly loud, but loud enough to hear it from downstairs and two he had never been violent prior to that. I mean it wasn't violent, the only time he'd been physical was when he grabbed my wrist at the convention, so I didn't really fear physical harm from him at that point in time.
135: Did Travis ever tell you he kept his gun loaded?
A: He told me at one time that he did consider loading it, but he assured me that it was unloaded
136: If you did not think the gun was loaded, why chance grabbing a gun that may not be loaded instead of just running outside?
A: I grabbed the gun, not because I intended to shoot him, I grabbed the gun because my thought is that if a gun is pointed, you stop, whether it's loaded or not, I've always been taught you don't point guns at people, period, just as a safety precaution. So I can only imagine what I would do in that situation, if a gun were pointed at me, I would stop, and I was hoping that it would have that effect on him.
137: You stated that when you walked out of Starbucks you did not notice anything wrong with the car. How is it that the back license plate ended upside down?
A: I didn't see anyone turning anyone turning my license late upside down, nor did I notice the license plate when I walked out. What I noticed was kids skating away from my car. It's possible it could have happened
M: Objection
A: It's possible it could have happened at any point on my trip, I could have even rented the car that way
M: Objection
J: Sustained
138: Why did you plan on going to see John Dixon when you were on your way to Utah to see Ryan?
A: John Dixon was a friend, um, although there was somewhat of an interest there is was something that I never let grow because he wasn't a church member so it would be kind of a poor investment of my heart to get attached to somebody that wasn't a member of the church. What I was going down there for was he had a friend who either owned a gallery or ran a gallery where he hung some of the greats which is Van Gogh and Monet and when I told him I painted he said We could make a space in this gallery for you, I could hang it right next to a Monet and Van Gogh. It sounded like a very big, it sounded like a very exciting thing for me because one of my goals at that time was to get my paintings into galleries.
139: How many men are you willing to be involved with at the same time?
A: Well, it depends on the level of intimacy. As far as a boyfriend, I have one boyfriend at a time, an intimate partner, one at a time. In the church
M: Objection, unresponsive, N: Explaining about her beliefs
J: Overruled
A: In the church you're encouraged to date around and find somebody you might be compatible with and not to get too serious with somebody that you don't think you would be very compatible with. So Mormons are encouraged to go on group dates and not spend too much time together with only one person unless you are certain you are going to get serious with that person.
140: Did you ever seek medical help for you mental condition?
A: I'm not sure what mental condition that refers to.
J: Have you ever taken medication for your memory issue?
A: No
J: Did you ever tell anyone about your condition prior to the killing?
A: I don't really thing I had much of a condition prior to the killing. Just, I mean, I have ADD I think because I space out
M: Objection
J: Sustained
141: You told us you weren't able to make out the license plate leaning up against the curb because you are nearsighted and did not get glasses until 2010. What is your prescription in each eye?
A: My understanding is my prescription is -2.5 and -2.25
142: Is there anyone who saw you shaking during a fight with Travis?
A: Dan, Dan saw me visibly upset after, um, but I don't think anybody say us fighting during, at least to the level of fights where it would cause me to shake.
143: Do any of your journal entries or any other items discuss you shaking, or blacking out or getting scrambled?
A: Possibly illusions to getting scrambled, but I have not blacked out, except like I said those two times, when I, that were alcohol induced. One time I did induce blacking out with some friends but it was earlier than that and that was a one time incident, but I didn't journal blacking out because there were no incidents during those times that I was journaling and shaking, I shoe but I wrote, but I didn't write that I was shaking, so probably only when I got scrambled, there were times that I would write things.
144: You claim to have memory lapses or gaps during times of stress such as when you're being yelled at or grilled. How is it you have such vivid and specific memories of violence and yelling by Travis such a long time ago if this is the case?
A: With the violence it's not that I have to process the English language, I feel those things. I know he broke my finger because it's still broken, well it's healed but it's crooked. I know he choked me out because I woke up from being unconscious. As far as him yelling, I know he's yelling because there's a loud volume and it has an effect on me, I don't know all the things he said, for example, the night he was, said disparaging things about my grandfather and my brother, those stand out, that's all I can remember of the three hour session of him screaming at me before I was able to leave. So many things were said. Mean things. And I didn't process them all some I wrote down and that's when he made me tear them out, so I didn't write them after that.
nursebeeme
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wenwe4
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Juror question
how many times in total did you see TA' ?
3 times . . . once shown, once cleaning, once on June 4
missed second
were you and Matt McCartney living in separate city when you saw Bianca ..
yes he was in crater lake - national park
were you broken up at that time
I guess - we didn't break up - he still came to my house for sex and stuff - I don't know what he was thinking
TA . . . the knife
You don't remember the knife
you say you remember putting the knife in dishwasher but you say you heard it drop on the tile floor
I have a vague memory of doing that . . . I remember hearing it hit floor but I did dishes - same knife used in rope cutting.
did you take photo of yourself . . . .in the truck
I took picture with makeup on to hide bruises . . . .makeup not make a record of them . . .it was to not make a record of them
how many phone calls . . . texts . . . #362, #366,
texts, and emails on the 3rd and 4th. . .
Jodi reviews records counting them. . . .
how many times in total did you see TA' ?
3 times . . . once shown, once cleaning, once on June 4
missed second
were you and Matt McCartney living in separate city when you saw Bianca ..
yes he was in crater lake - national park
were you broken up at that time
I guess - we didn't break up - he still came to my house for sex and stuff - I don't know what he was thinking
TA . . . the knife
You don't remember the knife
you say you remember putting the knife in dishwasher but you say you heard it drop on the tile floor
I have a vague memory of doing that . . . I remember hearing it hit floor but I did dishes - same knife used in rope cutting.
did you take photo of yourself . . . .in the truck
I took picture with makeup on to hide bruises . . . .makeup not make a record of them . . .it was to not make a record of them
how many phone calls . . . texts . . . #362, #366,
texts, and emails on the 3rd and 4th. . .
Jodi reviews records counting them. . . .
AngelWings444
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"In retrospect, it probably wasn't a good idea," Arias said. "But I felt that it would be more insensitive to not do anything at all."
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