The Pineapple

mjak · #1 10-23-2005, 11:16 AM

I have never been able to figure out when Jonbenet ate this pineapple.
I don't think a monster who has broken into the house to abuse and/or murder this child is going to take this child down to the kitchen and give her a snack.
If the Pineapple had been posined I would think forensics would have determined that by now. An innocent late night snack seems unlikely to me. As these children had probably been consuming christmas goodies all day and had a holiday dinner and desert. they went to bed late and with what I would imagne were fully stomachs. Not the night I would expect the kids to get up for a midnight snack. Were fingerprints ever found on the bowl or spoon? This is one of those things that tends to make me question the Ramseys description of what went on in that house that night. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

mjak

BlueCrab · #2 10-23-2005, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjak

I have never been able to figure out when Jonbenet ate this pineapple.
I don't think a monster who has broken into the house to abuse and/or murder this child is going to take this child down to the kitchen and give her a snack.
If the Pineapple had been posined I would think forensics would have determined that by now. An innocent late night snack seems unlikely to me. As these children had probably been consuming christmas goodies all day and had a holiday dinner and desert. they went to bed late and with what I would imagne were fully stomachs. Not the night I would expect the kids to get up for a midnight snack. Were fingerprints ever found on the bowl or spoon? This is one of those things that tends to make me question the Ramseys description of what went on in that house that night. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

mjak

mjak,

My guess is, based on the condition and location of the pineapple in the small intestine, JonBenet ate the pineapple about one hour before she died. JonBenet was in full rigor when carried upstairs from the basement at 1:05 PM on the 26th, which means she likely died approximately 12 hours prior, or 1:00 AM. This in turn suggests she ate the pineapple around midnight.

Other than the pineapple, there was no other food in JonBenet's stomach or small intestine, suggesting she hadn't eaten anything since the cracked crab meal she consumed at about 7:00 PM at the White's house. The cracked crab meal had been digested and was represented by soft green fecal matter in her large intestine.

The fingerprints of Patsy Ramsey and Burke Ramsey were found on the small bowl containing the pineapple left out all night on the breakfast room table. A giant over-sized serving spoon stuck out of the small bowl. Fingerprint test results from the spoon were never released. In addition to the bowl of pineapple, a waterglass containing a spent tea bag, and a large box of Kleenex napkins were on the table. Burke was the resident tea drinker. Fingerprint test results from the waterglass were never released.

The breakfast room table arrangement had four chairs, each of them assigned to a Ramsey. The pineapple was close to JonBenet's normal place at the table, and the waterglass was near Burke's normal place at the table.

BlueCrab

capps · #3 10-27-2005, 11:33 AM

Quote by BlueCrab:
"The fingerprints of Patsy Ramsey and Burke Ramsey were found on the small bowl containing the pineapple left out all night on the breakfast room table. A giant over-sized serving spoon stuck out of the small bowl. Fingerprint test results from the spoon were never released. In addition to the bowl of pineapple, a waterglass containing a spent tea bag, and a large box of Kleenex napkins were on the table. Burke was the resident tea drinker. Fingerprint test results from the waterglass were never released.

Why would they give the information that fingerprints of Patsy and Burke were on the bowl,but hold back about fingerprints,(if any),on on the spoon or tea glass?

I think there's a lot more evidence out there,that we do not know about.

Zman · #4 10-29-2005, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capps

Quote by BlueCrab:
"The fingerprints of Patsy Ramsey and Burke Ramsey were found on the small bowl containing the pineapple left out all night on the breakfast room table. A giant over-sized serving spoon stuck out of the small bowl. Fingerprint test results from the spoon were never released. In addition to the bowl of pineapple, a waterglass containing a spent tea bag, and a large box of Kleenex napkins were on the table. Burke was the resident tea drinker. Fingerprint test results from the waterglass were never released.

Why would they give the information that fingerprints of Patsy and Burke were on the bowl,but hold back about fingerprints,(if any),on on the spoon or tea glass?

I think there's a lot more evidence out there,that we do not know about.

Of course LE never stated they were the "only" fingerprints found on the bowl.

Brefie · #5 10-29-2005, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zman

Of course LE never stated they were the "only" fingerprints found on the bowl.

Perhaps - but it don't take 2 people to put one bowl away......

capps · #6 10-29-2005, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brefie

Perhaps - but it don't take 2 people to put one bowl away......

Brefie,

You have to admit though,that there was "selective" information going out. Seems strange that they surely got or leaked out the prints on the bowl,which happens to be Patsy's and Burke's,but no mention or leaks of what was found on the spoon or glass.

Holdontoyourhat · #7 02-05-2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueCrab

mjak,

My guess is, based on the condition and location of the pineapple in the small intestine, JonBenet ate the pineapple about one hour before she died. JonBenet was in full rigor when carried upstairs from the basement at 1:05 PM on the 26th, which means she likely died approximately 12 hours prior, or 1:00 AM. This in turn suggests she ate the pineapple around midnight.

Other than the pineapple, there was no other food in JonBenet's stomach or small intestine, suggesting she hadn't eaten anything since the cracked crab meal she consumed at about 7:00 PM at the White's house. The cracked crab meal had been digested and was represented by soft green fecal matter in her large intestine.

The fingerprints of Patsy Ramsey and Burke Ramsey were found on the small bowl containing the pineapple left out all night on the breakfast room table. A giant over-sized serving spoon stuck out of the small bowl. Fingerprint test results from the spoon were never released. In addition to the bowl of pineapple, a waterglass containing a spent tea bag, and a large box of Kleenex napkins were on the table. Burke was the resident tea drinker. Fingerprint test results from the waterglass were never released.

The breakfast room table arrangement had four chairs, each of them assigned to a Ramsey. The pineapple was close to JonBenet's normal place at the table, and the waterglass was near Burke's normal place at the table.

BlueCrab

A "giant over-sized serving spoon" is inherently suspicious. Normally, a bowl of cut pineapple would be put in the refrigerator when finished, and normally a regular-sized spoon would be used.

Voice of Reason · #8 02-05-2006, 10:51 PM

To me, the setup of the oversized spoon, combined with the glass with the teabag is just screaming CHILDREN!!! No adult would do this, and Patsy said so herself in the interviews. I think it is perfectly normal for a youngster to grab the first spoon and glass he/she found and not be concerned with the size of spoon or type of glass.

So JB had a midnight snack! And Burke, with his prints on the bowl, in all likelihood joined her. Patsy's prints are from unloading the dishwasher, IMO. While the pineapple may have been eaten earlier than the midnight estimate, it makes most scientific sense if it was eaten around midnight due to its location in the stomach. Combine this with the first paragraph which suggests children sneaking downstairs for a snack, and the pineapple makes good sense.

As one more point on the pineapple, assuming Patsy and/or John did know about this, I think Becba's response above is right on. Patsy and/or John didn't realize this would be an issue. They gave their "JonBenet was asleep when we got home" story from day one. Once the pineapple came into the picture, they had a problem. But it was easier to stick to the story and plead ignorance. Besides, they got themselves an expert to tell everyone the pineapple could have been eaten some other time.

KatherineQ · #9 02-05-2006, 11:27 PM

Is it possible that JonBenet came downstairs in the night in search of a snack, ate some pineapple with her fingers out of the bowl, and encountered the murderer in the house?

Holdontoyourhat · #10 02-06-2006, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

To me, the setup of the oversized spoon, combined with the glass with the teabag is just screaming CHILDREN!!! No adult would do this, and Patsy said so herself in the interviews. I think it is perfectly normal for a youngster to grab the first spoon and glass he/she found and not be concerned with the size of spoon or type of glass.

So JB had a midnight snack! And Burke, with his prints on the bowl, in all likelihood joined her. Patsy's prints are from unloading the dishwasher, IMO. While the pineapple may have been eaten earlier than the midnight estimate, it makes most scientific sense if it was eaten around midnight due to its location in the stomach. Combine this with the first paragraph which suggests children sneaking downstairs for a snack, and the pineapple makes good sense.

As one more point on the pineapple, assuming Patsy and/or John did know about this, I think Becba's response above is right on. Patsy and/or John didn't realize this would be an issue. They gave their "JonBenet was asleep when we got home" story from day one. Once the pineapple came into the picture, they had a problem. But it was easier to stick to the story and plead ignorance. Besides, they got themselves an expert to tell everyone the pineapple could have been eaten some other time.

It seems the oversize spoon, bowl without JBR's prints, and cut pineapple left out are telling a different story than that. Evidence suggests the pineapple was injested near the time she was murdered. Beyond that, we don't know where she injested the pineapple or under what circumstances.

jubie · #11 10-27-2005, 12:38 PM

In the "Death Of Innocence" (Or rather 'The Defense of John and Patsy')
I don't recall them discussing the pinapple yet they seemed to defend or try to explain away so much else.... is it just me or is there no mention of it at all?

Thanks
Jubie

trixie · #12 10-28-2005, 09:00 PM

I don't know how many aspire to this idea but I have ALWAYS thought that Jonbenet never made it to bed that night at all. To me the bed doesn't look like it was slept in since Christmas morning. The pj top that Patsy "couldn't find" that night is clearly visible as if Jonbenet had peeled it off and thrown it on the bed when she got dressed Christmas day. The covers are thrown back as if she woke up excited on Christmas morning and jumped out of bed. I think somewhere Patsy said she didn't make the beds on Christmas day, I think it's in one of her police interviews but I couldn't tell you which one off hand. We know there was an argument on Christmas day about what Jonbenet should wear over to the Whites. I wonder if there was an argument that night about what Jonbenet wanted to wear to bed? Is that possibly how all this got started? BTW, back to the pineapple, obviously ,IMO, if she didn't make it to bed that night she was up when they got home. Plenty of opportunity to eat pineapple. OK, since I'm a thread killer I guess I should apologise to the thread starter. Sorry mjak.

narlacat · #13 10-28-2005, 09:48 PM

I tend to agree.

I don't think JonBenet went to bed that night either, if she did, working with the estimated time of her death, she wasn't in bed for long.
Which gave her plenty of time for the snack of pineapple.

Linda7NJ · #14 10-29-2005, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trixie

I don't know how many aspire to this idea but I have ALWAYS thought that Jonbenet never made it to bed that night at all. To me the bed doesn't look like it was slept in since Christmas morning. The pj top that Patsy "couldn't find" that night is clearly visible as if Jonbenet had peeled it off and thrown it on the bed when she got dressed Christmas day. The covers are thrown back as if she woke up excited on Christmas morning and jumped out of bed. I think somewhere Patsy said she didn't make the beds on Christmas day, I think it's in one of her police interviews but I couldn't tell you which one off hand. We know there was an argument on Christmas day about what Jonbenet should wear over to the Whites. I wonder if there was an argument that night about what Jonbenet wanted to wear to bed? Is that possibly how all this got started? BTW, back to the pineapple, obviously ,IMO, if she didn't make it to bed that night she was up when they got home. Plenty of opportunity to eat pineapple. OK, since I'm a thread killer I guess I should apologise to the thread starter. Sorry mjak.

Wasn't Burkes bed made that morning?

narlacat · #15 10-29-2005, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda7NJ

Wasn't Burkes bed made that morning?

Apparently FW made it.

trixie · #17 10-29-2005, 06:36 PM

Yes, supposedly Fleet made Burkes bed that morning when he went up with John to wake him up. Now where did I read that......?

aussiesheila · #18 02-06-2006, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjak

I have never been able to figure out when Jonbenet ate this pineapple.
I don't think a monster who has broken into the house to abuse and/or murder this child is going to take this child down to the kitchen and give her a snack.
If the Pineapple had been posined I would think forensics would have determined that by now. An innocent late night snack seems unlikely to me. As these children had probably been consuming christmas goodies all day and had a holiday dinner and desert. they went to bed late and with what I would imagne were fully stomachs. Not the night I would expect the kids to get up for a midnight snack. Were fingerprints ever found on the bowl or spoon? This is one of those things that tends to make me question the Ramseys description of what went on in that house that night. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

mjak

I don't think anyone broke into the house. I think a person was let in by Patsy who was expecting him around 11 pm after John had fallen asleep. I think that someone was Santa and he brought the fresh pineapple in a plastic bag and emptied it into the bowl that Patsy got out of the cupboard.

I think the whole purpose of the pineapple was that it was drugged and that JonBenet was supposed to eat some to render her more amenable to the planned sexual abuse session that was to follow, although Patsy did not know this. I expect she just thought how kind Santa was to bring around some of JonBenet's favorite food as a snack before the photo shoot she had been told was planned for the evening.

I think the drug was not detected in the body because the testing was not done until about 36 hours after death by which time the drug had been degraded.

sandraladeda · #19 02-06-2006, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussiesheila

I think the whole purpose of the pineapple was that it was drugged and that JonBenet was supposed to eat some to render her more amenable to the planned sexual abuse session that was to follow, although Patsy did not know this. I expect she just thought how kind Santa was to bring around some of JonBenet's favorite food as a snack before the photo shoot she had been told was planned for the evening.

I think the drug was not detected in the body because the testing was not done until about 36 hours after death by which time the drug had been degraded.

Aussiesheila, do you have a link to evidence that such a drug as you mention would/could degrade in such a way as to be undetected? If this is the case, I would find it surprising that toxicolgy is done at autopsy at all.

imo

capps · #20 02-06-2006, 07:18 PM

I wonder if they could have gotten some kind of a time frame,from looking into the "spent tea bag"?
Tea drinkers may know ... have you ever left a spent tea bag on a tea plate? After several hours it looks drier,but still some what moist.If it should be left over night,it is dried up,withered and has almost a sepia hue to it.

At least it would break down the time frame some what? Any teabag experts around? lol.

aussiesheila · #21 02-07-2006, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandraladeda

Aussiesheila, do you have a link to evidence that such a drug as you mention would/could degrade in such a way as to be undetected? If this is the case, I would find it surprising that toxicolgy is done at autopsy at all.

imo

No I don't have a link. It is just a theory.

But I imagine they would have to have a specific test for each drug they thought might be present and we don't even know what what drugs they did test for other than ethanol.

The autopsy just said no drugs detected, it doesn't say what ones were tested for. It is all very unsatisfactory.

But when all is said and done, I do not think you can deduce from what is stated in the autopsy, that there were definitely no drugs given to JonBenet in the hours immediately prior to her death.

Maybe I should be asking you what link you have as to what drugs were tested for in the autopsy. Which you probably can't because that information has not been made public as far as I know. We are just groping in the dark.

capps · #22 02-07-2006, 06:37 PM

Okay,nix my previous post about the spent tea bag. After re-reading the post I realized how ridiculous it was! It's just that we keep going round and round about the same things,I thought a fresh look at something else might help.

I know .... I was grasping at straws!

tipper · #23 02-07-2006, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capps

Okay,nix my previous post about the spent tea bag. After re-reading the post I realized how ridiculous it was! It's just that we keep going round and round about the same things,I thought a fresh look at something else might help.

I know .... I was grasping at straws!

I didn't think it was that crazy.

Kind of like the melted icecream in the OJ case.