Do you think a Stungun was used?

[Jayelles]

If it could be proved that a stungun HAD been used, then it would make it very unlikely that the Ramseys were involved in Jonbenet's murder.

However, it has not been proved that a stungun was used. According to the leading expert on stunguns (Robert Stratbucker), the marks do not resemble stungun marks. He did extensive tests on humans and his expertise goes back for a few decades.

Stratbucker was deposed in Wolf vs Ramsey case, but Lin wood's questioning focused more on his professional ties to Taser Inc who hired him because of his expertise in stunguns.

The Ramsey expert, Michael Doberson proved himself NOT to be such an expert when it was revealed that in fact, he FAILED to spot stungun marks in a murder case where a stungun had in fact been used. He also famously said that you "cannot tell" from a photograph.

I did my own tests using a computer graphics program, a steel ruler and the best quality images I could find of Doberson's pig experiment and Jonbenet's autopsy photos. I scaled them all to real size then printed them out on acetate and overlaid them. The pig marks matched the stungun prongs exactly but jonBenet's marks did not - they were much smaller and closer together. I documented my methodology and urged others to replicate it so that they could dispute or corroborate my findings. To the best of my knowledge, no-one has taken me up on that although many criticised my experiment and one person stated that it had "many flaws in logic". That person refused to say what these flaws were - despite being asked 6 times by me.

I also take issue with the apparent lack of a second mark on Jonbenet's face. Stunguns need to make two contact points to work. Ramsey supporters say the second prong landed on the duct tape and that is why there is only one mark. I asked a physician about this and he said that it is possible that duct tape would act as insulation and that the stungun would not work if one prong landed on duct tape. He conceded that he'd need to know more about the duct tape and the stungun before he could say with absolutely certainty.

RST also say that there is a little spot of glue on Jonbenet's face and this was where the second prong of the stungun laned - melting the glue on the sticky side of the duct tape. However, the issue I take with this (apart from the possibility that teh duct tape would act as insulation) is that it would be quite compelling if this were the case. So why didn't Lou Smit shout it from the rooftops in defence of his stungun theory? Tests to that glue - even tests to the duct tape would reveal whether heat had been applied to it.

So here we are - none the wiser. It's almost certainly too late to exhume and perform tests on her tissues.

So are you convinced by the stungun theory or not?

[Linda7NJ]

Originally Posted by Jayelles

If it could be proved that a stun gun HAD been used, then it would make it very unlikely that the Ramseys were involved in Jonbenet's murder.

However, it has not been proved that a stun gun was used. According to the leading expert on stun guns (Robert Stratbucker), the marks do not resemble stungun marks. He did extensive tests on humans and his expertise goes back for a few decades.

Stratbucker was deposed in Wolf vs Ramsey case, but Lin wood's questioning focused more on his professional ties to Taser Inc who hired him because of his expertise in stunguns.

The Ramsey expert, Michael Doberson proved himself NOT to be such an expert when it was revealed that in fact, he FAILED to spot stun gun marks in a murder case where a stungun had in fact been used. He also famously said that you "cannot tell" from a photograph.

I did my own tests using a computer graphics program, a steel ruler and the best quality images I could find of Doberson's pig experiment and Jonbenet's autopsy photos. I scaled them all to real size then printed them out on acetate and overlaid them. The pig marks matched the stun gun prongs exactly but jonBenet's marks did not - they were much smaller and closer together. I documented my methodology and urged others to replicate it so that they could dispute or corroborate my findings. To the best of my knowledge, no-one has taken me up on that although many criticised my experiment and one person stated that it had "many flaws in logic". That person refused to say what these flaws were - despite being asked 6 times by me.

I also take issue with the apparent lack of a second mark on Jonbenet's face. Stunguns need to make two contact points to work. Ramsey supporters say the second prong landed on the duct tape and that is why there is only one mark. I asked a physician about this and he said that it is possible that duct tape would act as insulation and that the stun gun would not work if one prong landed on duct tape. He conceded that he'd need to know more about the duct tape and the stun gun before he could say with absolutely certainty.

RST also say that there is a little spot of glue on Jonbenet's face and this was where the second prong of the stun gun laned - melting the glue on the sticky side of the duct tape. However, the issue I take with this (apart from the possibility that teh duct tape would act as insulation) is that it would be quite compelling if this were the case. So why didn't Lou Smit shout it from the rooftops in defence of his stun gun theory? Tests to that glue - even tests to the duct tape would reveal whether heat had been applied to it.

So here we are - none the wiser. It's almost certainly too late to exhume and perform tests on her tissues.

So are you convinced by the stun gun theory or not?

I have never been convinced of the:

stun gun theory

the enhanced 911 call

garrote as a AE device

chronic sexual abuse

or any intruder theory.

[Nuisanceposter]

I'm not convinced about the stun gun either way.

[tipper]

I thought this was an interesting case where both Doberson and Stratbucker testfied for the prosecution. The body was cremated so their testimony was based on photographs.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...dex.php/t-5544

Source: http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/
ny-lipelo1125,0,2828577.story?coll=ny-topstories-headlines



Riverhead
Prosecution rests in Pelosi case

BY ROBIN TOPPING
STAFF WRITER

November 24, 2004, 9:33 PM EST

Theodore Ammon was repeatedly zapped with a stun gun and the killer may have held him from behind in a choke hold while applying the gun directly to his neck, a Colorado coroner suggested in testimony Wednesday.

That testimony from Michael J. Dobersen, the medical examiner for Arapahoe County, provides foundation for the prosecution's theory that Daniel Pelosi used a stun gun before killing Ammon in October 2001 in the master bedroom of the millionaire's East Hampton home.

Dobersen said the stun gun's use and the choke hold scenario was supported by a line of small red marks on Ammon's left lower back, a larger Y-shaped wound on the right side of Ammon's neck and severe fractures to Ammon's larynx.

Pelosi bought a stun gun in March 2001 and turned one over this year to police. Assistant District Attorney Janet Albertson, who finished presenting her case Wednesday six weeks after testimony began, said Pelosi used such a weapon to incapacitate the larger Ammon before beating him to death.

Dobersen's testimony backed up prosecution witness Robert Stratbucker, who testified Tuesday. Both men have presented themselves as experts on the effects of stun guns. But Pelosi's defense attorney, Gerald Shargel of Manhattan, sharply attacked Stratbucker's credibility, especially in light of Stratbucker's position as medical director of a company that manufactures stun guns.

Dobersen, a forensic pathologist who has performed stun-gun experiments on animals with Stratbucker, said he has worked on a half-dozen cases involving the weapons. He said the gun leaves characteristic red points from the gun's twin electrodes and bigger wounds from random arcs of electricity when applied intensely to larger areas.

Although Stratbucker testified that the Y-shaped wound on Ammon's neck was from the stun gun being held there for several minutes, Dobersen said it was caused by the stun gun moving over the area just above the skin.

In his cross-examination, Shargel tried to imply that Dobersen was influenced by Stratbucker's conclusions and by prosecutors saying a stun gun was suspected in the case.

But Dobersen, who has testified in hundreds of murder cases and remained unruffled on the stand, insisted that no matter what anyone told him, "Stun gun would be number one on my list of possibilities."

Still, he acknowledged that he had differed with Stratbucker on whether a stun gun was used in the case of JonBenet Ramsey, a 6-year-old girl whose 1996 murder in Boulder, Colo., remains unsolved. In that case, Stratbucker said a stun gun was not used, but Dobersen said, "I felt very strongly that these were stun gun wounds."

Like Stratbucker, Dobersen came to his conclusions on the Pelosi case after reviewing photos of the body and crime scene. He was the last witness before the prosecution rested, with the defense case to begin Wednesday before State Supreme Court Justice Robert W. Doyle in Riverhead.

[…]

[BlueCrab]

I am convinced that a stun gun had been used on JonBenet (I don't like the use of "100%" in the poll question but, based on the evidence, that designation comes closest to what I think).

There were three areas on JonBenet's body that were likely injuries from stun gun hits. These were on the right side of the face; on the lower-left back; and on the lower left leg near the ankle. The marks on the back were the clearest to diagnose.

The size and shape and distance apart of the twin rectangular marks, especially on JonBenet's back, clearly matched the metaL prongs of a Taser brand stun gun.

I'm not a member of the RST but I'm convinced that JonBenet had been tased. Moreover, I'm convinced that a Ramsey family member was involved in the tasing and the stun gun disappeared with the rest of the missing physical evidence from the crime scene (the tape, the cord, etc.).

Here's how the coroner described the little rectangular marks in his autopsy report:

"Located on the right side of the chin is a three-sixteenths by one-eighth of an inch area of superficial abrasion."

"On the left lateral aspect of the lower back, approximately sixteen and one-quarter inches and seventeen and one-half inches below the level of the top of the head are two dried rust colored to slightly purple abrasions. The more superior of the two measures one-eighth by one-sixteenth of an inch and the more inferior measures three-sixteenths by one-eighth of an inch."

"On the posterior aspect of the lower left leg, almost in the midline, approiximately 4 inches above the level of the heel are two small scratch-like abrasions which are dried and rust colored. They measure one-sixteenth by less than one-sixteenth of an inch and one-eighth by less than one-sixteenth of an inch respectively".

Meyer, after reviewing additional evidence, later agreed that the marks are consistent with stun gun injuries.

BlueCrab

[tipper]

I agree about the 100%. If it had said "more likely than not" I would have voted for the stun gun being used.

[aussiesheila]

Originally Posted by BlueCrab

I am convinced that a stun gun had been used on JonBenet (I don't like the use of "100%" in the poll question but, based on the evidence, that designation comes closest to what I think).

There were three areas on JonBenet's body that were likely injuries from stun gun hits. These were on the right side of the face; on the lower-left back; and on the lower left leg near the ankle. The marks on the back were the clearest to diagnose.

The size and shape and distance apart of the twin rectangular marks, especially on JonBenet's back, clearly matched the metaL prongs of a Taser brand stun gun.

I'm not a member of the RST but I'm convinced that JonBenet had been tased. Moreover, I'm convinced that a Ramsey family member was involved in the tasing and the stun gun disappeared with the rest of the missing physical evidence from the crime scene (the tape, the cord, etc.).

Here's how the coroner described the little rectangular marks in his autopsy report:

"Located on the right side of the chin is a three-sixteenths by one-eighth of an inch area of superficial abrasion."

"On the left lateral aspect of the lower back, approximately sixteen and one-quarter inches and seventeen and one-half inches below the level of the top of the head are two dried rust colored to slightly purple abrasions. The more superior of the two measures one-eighth by one-sixteenth of an inch and the more inferior measures three-sixteenths by one-eighth of an inch."

"On the posterior aspect of the lower left leg, almost in the midline, approiximately 4 inches above the level of the heel are two small scratch-like abrasions which are dried and rust colored. They measure one-sixteenth by less than one-sixteenth of an inch and one-eighth by less than one-sixteenth of an inch respectively".

Meyer, after reviewing additional evidence, later agreed that the marks are consistent with stun gun injuries.

BlueCrab

Yes I am convinced that a stungun was used too, Bluecrab, thanks to all the information you have posted and I was able to read.

I think though, that the mark on her chin was from some other injury, since there is only one mark and it is larger than all the others.

If you think about it, the face would not be a good place to apply a stungun shock anyway, because the victim could see the stungun coming towards their face and anticipate something nasty about to happen. Even if tied up the victim still has the ability to move the head and make the stunning difficult. Besides, sexual abusers try not to leave obvious marks on their victims and marks on the face are always very noticeable, abusers prefer to leave their marks where they would normally be covered by clothes.

PS Bluecrab, how heavy are stunguns?

[SisterSocks]

Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter

I'm not convinced about the stun gun either way.

Ditto

[loyalalways]

I saw the pictures of the marks on her neck. I don't know what else could have caused those marks other than a stun gun. Also, if the person didn't want to alert any other family members of his presence he would have to use something to keep JonBenet quiet, IMO.

I don't think the parents had anything to do with her death. IMO, I think that it was possibly someone that JonBenet knew. However, I also wonder if there was a pedophile/killer in the area, because within 9 months of JonBenet's murder, another girl that went to the same dance school as JonBenet was attacked in her own room by a stranger. The police are saying that it couldn't be the person that killed JonBenet because this other girl wasn't murdered. The reason she wasn't murdered is because her mother heard something and interrupted the person before he could do anything harmful. If she hadn't heard anything, I really think that Boulder would have had another child murdered.

The Boulder police are the reason this case hasn't been solved. They are determined to pin it on the parents and won't look at anything else. That's the impression I've been getting from reading different articles on this case.

Poor little JonBenet. She went through more in her six years of life than most people go through in their whole life. When I saw the autopsy pictures I couldn't believe that a human being could do that to an innocent little child. The thought of what she went through that night makes me cry. Whoever did this should be put in the yard at the prison and let all the other murderers have a field day with him.

[Jayelles]

I put the 100% in intentionally. I wanted to see who was totally convinced by the evidence as it stands.

The results will be more interesting that way.

If you aren't sure about the 100% thing, think of it this way - if you had to incriminate someone on the basis of those marks being made by a stungun - would you feel positive enough to incriminate?

[Jayelles]

Originally Posted by loyalalways

I saw the pictures of the marks on her neck. I don't know what else could have caused those marks other than a stun gun. Also, if the person didn't want to alert any other family members of his presence he would have to use something to keep JonBenet quiet, IMO.

I don't think the parents had anything to do with her death. IMO, I think that it was possibly someone that JonBenet knew. However, I also wonder if there was a pedophile/killer in the area, because within 9 months of JonBenet's murder, another girl that went to the same dance school as JonBenet was attacked in her own room by a stranger. The police are saying that it couldn't be the person that killed JonBenet because this other girl wasn't murdered. The reason she wasn't murdered is because her mother heard something and interrupted the person before he could do anything harmful. If she hadn't heard anything, I really think that Boulder would have had another child murdered.

The Boulder police are the reason this case hasn't been solved. They are determined to pin it on the parents and won't look at anything else. That's the impression I've been getting from reading different articles on this case.

Poor little JonBenet. She went through more in her six years of life than most people go through in their whole life. When I saw the autopsy pictures I couldn't believe that a human being could do that to an innocent little child. The thought of what she went through that night makes me cry. Whoever did this should be put in the yard at the prison and let all the other murderers have a field day with him.

Welcome loyalalways! Could I ask a wee favour? I have a problem with my eyes and I can't read text in lighter colours. I either have to jumpt through some hoops to adjust my Internet browser Accessibility settings to read them - or scroll by them.

[DeeDee249]

I think a stun gun was used on JBR. I've always felt that the use of the stun gun and the parents' involvement were not mutually exclusive. Some believe that if a stun gun was used, that it would have to point to an intruder. I disagree. Anyone cruel enough to strangle a child, sexually assault her with a broken, sharp paintbrush handle, and punch out a gaping hole in her skull with a flashlight/log grabber/golf club/baseball bat would have NO problem using a stun gun, parent or not.

[SuperDave]

Then let me hit you with this:

What do you make of an instructional video on stunners being in the home?

[DeeDee249]

To me, it indicates that the stun gun was used by a family member, as I said. The R's camp seemed to embrace the idea of a stun gun because they felt it pointed to an intruder. They felt no one would think one of the parents would ever use a stun gun on their child.
But I feel that line of thinking is flawed. A parent that can murder their child is certainly capable of using a stun gun during the crime.
Many of you are very good at pulling up R quotes- I recall JR discussing the stun gun video during an interview, and saying it was for something else, like they were THINKING of getting one, somethink like that...
He did say it was in Spanish, as if to imply that he couldn't have understood how to use it anyway because he didn't understand Spanish.
How ridiculous. I also think it's ridiculous that JR expects people to believe that he only had the video and not the actual stun gun just because it was in Spanish. I've seen BIC lighters that come with instructions in Spanish- that doesn't mean I couldn't figure out how to use it.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

To me, it indicates that the stun gun was used by a family member, as I said. The R's camp seemed to embrace the idea of a stun gun because they felt it pointed to an intruder. They felt no one would think one of the parents would ever use a stun gun on their child.
But I feel that line of thinking is flawed. A parent that can murder their child is certainly capable of using a stun gun during the crime.
Many of you are very good at pulling up R quotes- I recall JR discussing the stun gun video during an interview, and saying it was for something else, like they were THINKING of getting one, somethink like that...
He did say it was in Spanish, as if to imply that he couldn't have understood how to use it anyway because he didn't understand Spanish.
How ridiculous. I also think it's ridiculous that JR expects people to believe that he only had the video and not the actual stun gun just because it was in Spanish. I've seen BIC lighters that come with instructions in Spanish- that doesn't mean I couldn't figure out how to use it.

LOL..good point. Why would they keep instructions that were written in Spanish ANYWAY?? Were they planning on taking Spanish lessons? I believe that John probably COULD read Spanish, and like you said, even if he couldn't....a stun gun wouldn't be that hard to figure out. (I have watched COPS...way too many times)...all you have to do is place it on the skin and push the button....doesn't seem that difficult.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by SuperDave

Then let me hit you with this:

What do you make of an instructional video on stunners being in the home?

I still believe that Patsy flew into a rage induced frenzy and harmed her daughter...to the point of no return, and then the staging began. I wonder if the stun gun (if one was used) could have been used afterward, as part of the staging...to make it APPEAR that the invisible intruder did it??

[JMO8778]

Originally Posted by Ames

I still believe that Patsy flew into a rage induced frenzy and harmed her daughter...to the point of no return, and then the staging began. I wonder if the stun gun (if one was used) could have been used afterward, as part of the staging...to make it APPEAR that the invisible intruder did it??

possibly,but they pushed the stun gun theory pretty hard, and then wouldn't let JB be exhumed to determine for sure if it was a stun gun or not,so I have to wonder about that.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by JMO8778

possibly,but they pushed the stun gun theory pretty hard, and then wouldn't let JB be exhumed to determine for sure if it was a stun gun or not,so I have to wonder about that.

Yeah, I know. The fact that they pushed the stun gun theory so hard....imo....means that it wasn't the cause of those marks. Somebody said..."those look like stun gun marks"...and John and Patsy said...."Uhhhh...stun gun marks? Ummmm....YEAH, we bet that the intruder used a stun gun. Uhhhhhh....yeah, now that we think about it....ummm...they couldn't have been made with anything else. Yeah, stun gun....that's the ticket". PLUS...as you have said....THAT and the fact that they didn't want to have her body exhumed. I have always thought that those marks were made by Patsy's rings....but, I just thought that I would throw the Stun gun marks being made as maybe part of the staging out there. Another thing, a stun gun would cause burn marks....the autopsy calls them "abrasions".

[DeeDee249]

These are interesting points. I was thinking whether the killer would know that the autopsy would show erosion of the hymen, vaginal hyperemia, etc. Would the killer be thinking about that right after the crime. The adrenaline is surging, thinking is clouded and rushed, a million thoughts racing, what to do with the body, how to stage it, all those many details that took place in a short period of time. Would they really be ticking off in their minds the things that may or may not show up on an autopsy. I think the paintbrush stab was part of the assault, not part of a coverup. There was evidence of blood wiped off her thighs at the autopsy. She had to be alive to bleed. I just don't think it was done after she was dead to hide an assault. The paintbrush part to make the garrotte and the part used to assault her were meant to "go together" in the mind of the perp. The key to the whole crime could come down to the missing part of the paintbrush. We still don't know if the entire 3rd piece was left inside her vagina, do we? There is mention of "birefringent" material- I have read various explanations for that- talc (from latex gloves) or paint flakes from the brush handle, or cellulose (wood). Are some brushes made with beaver fur? I know some use sable. That might be one explanation for the beaver fur that I believe was found in JBR's hands. She may have tried to grab the brush. And the part with the fur is the missing part, right? What a piece of evidence that would be if that fur matched the fur on her hands!
PR's beaver boots - were they ever tested? Or was that one of the items that walked out the door with the Rs that night or with Auntie on her police "supervised" (yeah, right) trips to collect clothes for the funeral.
That reminds me, didn't PR say that a local department store had sent some things so the family could choose clothes for the funeral? I believe PR was discussing her decision to wear that Jacquie Kennedy-like veil and she mentioned that. I think she even mentioned choosing a black suit. If so, why did little sis have to go back to the house (creepy at best) to get funeral clothes?

[UKGuy]

Originally Posted by DeeDee249

These are interesting points. I was thinking whether the killer would know that the autopsy would show erosion of the hymen, vaginal hyperemia, etc. Would the killer be thinking about that right after the crime. The adrenaline is surging, thinking is clouded and rushed, a million thoughts racing, what to do with the body, how to stage it, all those many details that took place in a short period of time. Would they really be ticking off in their minds the things that may or may not show up on an autopsy. I think the paintbrush stab was part of the assault, not part of a coverup. There was evidence of blood wiped off her thighs at the autopsy. She had to be alive to bleed. I just don't think it was done after she was dead to hide an assault. The paintbrush part to make the garrotte and the part used to assault her were meant to "go together" in the mind of the perp. The key to the whole crime could come down to the missing part of the paintbrush. We still don't know if the entire 3rd piece was left inside her vagina, do we? There is mention of "birefringent" material- I have read various explanations for that- talc (from latex gloves) or paint flakes from the brush handle, or cellulose (wood). Are some brushes made with beaver fur? I know some use sable. That might be one explanation for the beaver fur that I believe was found in JBR's hands. She may have tried to grab the brush. And the part with the fur is the missing part, right? What a piece of evidence that would be if that fur matched the fur on her hands!
PR's beaver boots - were they ever tested? Or was that one of the items that walked out the door with the Rs that night or with Auntie on her police "supervised" (yeah, right) trips to collect clothes for the funeral.
That reminds me, didn't PR say that a local department store had sent some things so the family could choose clothes for the funeral? I believe PR was discussing her decision to wear that Jacquie Kennedy-like veil and she mentioned that. I think she even mentioned choosing a black suit. If so, why did little sis have to go back to the house (creepy at best) to get funeral clothes?

DeeDee249,

The definition of "birefringent" material is explicitly known, e.g. it is a measure of a materials ability to bend light according to direction, as it passes through the material, think of stain-glass windows, or place a spoon, fork or knife in a tall glass of water, stand to one side and note how the utensil appears to be distorted in the glass, this is due to the refractive properties of the glass bending the light, if it varies according to direction then its termed as birefringent.

Since each materials refractive index is known, the investigators will know explicitly whether the "birefringent" material refers to it as originating from the paintbrush handle or not. Since this aspect has never been expanded upon, I suspect it has significant forensic importance, to the point of speculating whether the missing piece of the paintbrush handle was left inside her?


.

[goddess]

Nope. No stun gun.

[Chrishope]

Here are some taser videos from Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Qog10mZ5Q&NR=1

The first one, you can hear the taser gun go off. It's loud enough to hear, so immagine the same amount of noise at night in a quiet home with everyone asleep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkfkQcb45Lo

In the second video, you hear how much the woman screams. You also notice how quickly she recovers. Had JBR been tasered, she'd have screamed, and when the shock stopped, she'd have yelled for her parents.

I think we can dismiss the idea that a stun gun was used.

[SuperDave]

Originally Posted by Chrishope

Here are some taser videos from Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Qog10mZ5Q&NR=1

The first one, you can hear the taser gun go off. It's loud enough to hear, so immagine the same amount of noise at night in a quiet home with everyone asleep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkfkQcb45Lo

In the second video, you hear how much the woman screams. You also notice how quickly she recovers. Had JBR been tasered, she'd have screamed, and when the shock stopped, she'd have yelled for her parents.

I think we can dismiss the idea that a stun gun was used.

Ain't the Internet wonderful?

[LI_Mom]

My child is brutally murdered....

My husband & I are suspects.....

some detective tells me he thinks a stun gun was used....

That could PROVE an intruder theory & it could be the evidence that one day helps convict her killer.... but the body has to be exhumed.


I say, 'Oh forget it.... it's just not that important to find out for sure.... if it's a false lead & LE wastes time pursuing this avenue.... oh well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.'

[Ames]

Originally Posted by LI_Mom

My child is brutally murdered....

My husband & I are suspects.....

some detective tells me he thinks a stun gun was used....

That could PROVE an intruder theory & it could be the evidence that one day helps convict her killer.... but the body has to be exhumed.


I say, 'Oh forget it.... it's just not that important to find out for sure.... if it's a false lead & LE wastes time pursuing this avenue.... oh well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.'

Right. Only the Ramsey's would not allow their child to be exhumed, even if they thought that it may help catch her killer. Why? Because they know who the killer is. Only a fruitcake (or the Ramseys...need I say more?) would not allow their child to be exhumed for that purpose. John says...that she is at rest now, or something like that...and that they didn't want her body disturbed. If that were my child, and the killer was still on the loose...I would say...disturb away. My aunt and uncle were going to allow their child's body to be exhumed, when the person that killed her, tried to say that she had committed suicide. This person also tried to make the prison officials think that he was crazy, (and let him out early)....by picking up rocks. DUHHHH....