NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 4

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Peabody Peabody is offline
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Just a Reminder to watch 20/20 Fri March 17 @ 10 PM EST
Just a reminder to mark your calendars to watch the ABC News 20/20 Special featuring missing college coeds, Maura Murray and Brooke Wilburger, tomorrow, Friday, March 17th at 10 PM EST

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Bring Maura Home!
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Read about Maura on Websleuths:

She has three threads: one each under Missing Persons Info and Support, Missing but not Forgotten, and Missing/Located Forum Discussion.

I was wondering if anybody thinks that there will be some questions answered on 20/20. Or, just what questions would you like to see answered from this show,(accept where Maura is)? I think it is important to keep this thread going.

nnglas said:

I was wondering if anybody thinks that there will be some questions answered on 20/20. Or, just what questions would you like to see answered from this show,(accept where Maura is)? I think it is important to keep this thread going.

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Another reminder to mark your calendars to watch the ABC News 20/20 Special TONIGHT, Friday March 17th at 10 PM EST.

The show will feature missing college coeds, Maura Murray and Brooke Wilburger.

that struck me were:

1. That LE from the beginning believed(and STILL believes) that Maura went missing voluntarily

2. That the Murray and Rausch families have done the majority of the "discovery" in Maura's case-and that if not for their efforts Maura's case would simply be another file in the NH LE database languishing for lack of REAL interest!

3. That LE is getting to "have their cake and eat it too"-because they are treating her case a "runaway/voluntarily missing person" they don't have to expend much in the way of investigative resources-but yet-LE is being allowed to NOT divulge any info to the family that MIGHT assist them in learning Maura's fate!

Watching the program-a radical thought came to me-what would happen if Fred Murray requested the courts declare Maura "legally deceased"? In such a circumstance, would LE be FORCED to divulge any info they have to the contrary?(And I am not saying this to be mean or to cause the Murray and Rausch families any more pain-but since LE and the court have, to date, been unwilling to share info with the families, this may be ONLY way to get the info out in the open!)

My fervent hope is that tonite's show will generate renewed interest in Maura's case-and possible bring some good, solid info that may aid in answering the question


WHERE IS MAURA????

I just watched 20/20, and I had never before read anything about Maura's disappearance.
It is positively baffling!

A few things I don't quite understand:
1. If she did go missing voluntarily, HOW could she possibly have not
been found in 2 years? Someone would have to have seen her.
She had very little money, no car and no resources.
WHERE could she be?

2. It seems HIGHLY unlikely that "foul play" could have occurred in the
"10 minutes" time that it took the police to arrive.


3. I don't understand why she would have taken off without telling anyone and driven hundreds of miles from home. She was a smart, together girl.
My niece is 24, and she would never do that. Neither would I.
Meaning, Maura, obviously had some problems that no one knew about...
maybe her boyfriend did, but he isn't talking.

So many unanswered questions.....

gatetrekker44 said:

that struck me were:

1. That LE from the beginning believed(and STILL believes) that Maura went missing voluntarily

2. That the Murray and Rausch families have done the majority of the "discovery" in Maura's case-and that if not for their efforts Maura's case would simply be another file in the NH LE database languishing for lack of REAL interest!

3. That LE is getting to "have their cake and eat it too"-because they are treating her case a "runaway/voluntarily missing person" they don't have to expend much in the way of investigative resources-but yet-LE is being allowed to NOT divulge any info to the family that MIGHT assist them in learning Maura's fate!

Watching the program-a radical thought came to me-what would happen if Fred Murray requested the courts declare Maura "legally deceased"? In such a circumstance, would LE be FORCED to divulge any info they have to the contrary?(And I am not saying this to be mean or to cause the Murray and Rausch families any more pain-but since LE and the court have, to date, been unwilling to share info with the families, this may be ONLY way to get the info out in the open!)

My fervent hope is that tonite's show will generate renewed interest in Maura's case-and possible bring some good, solid info that may aid in answering the question


WHERE IS MAURA????

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My husband and I had the same response you did regarding law enforcement's attitude about the case.

It is just absurd that they have officially and repeatedly stated that Maura is an adult that left of her own free will, that no foul play was involved and they do not consider her to be "missing"....Yet they refuse to share what information they do have that has led to this conclusion.

That is the very least they could do for the family at this point. I feel that if they truly believe Maura has begun a new life some where, a detective should be put on the case full time to find her.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49328

Serial killer behind 'disappearing' women?
Frustrated parents of 2 girls suspect cases connected, killer on the loose

I had a slightly different take on the comments by NH detective John Scarinza who was the only LE person directly involved in Maura's case to be quoted on 20/20 last night.

He talked about thousands of hours being spent on the case--and yes there were considerable belated search efforts made as we know.

And yes it appears from the context that he still believes she both left UMA voluntarily and went missing voluntarily.

However he was not asked directly what he thinks about Maura's fate today. He did at least make some kind of lukewarm sympathetic statement about the frustration and concerns of Maura's family and friends.

Aside from the lack of amity between police and the family that was displayed as quickly as eight or nine days after Maura went missing, the clearest failure by police (compare to Brooke Wilberger) was the two day delay to do any real searching at the Swiftwater scene and to send immediate notices to nearby towns about a missing girl.

This failure has to be attributed to the Haverhill local police that night and then next day to NHSP. There was a state trooper named Monahan on the scene as well sometime after 8pm on 2/9/04, but it is my impression he did not do any cursory searching for Maura as did Haverhill officer Cecil Smith and the busdriver Butch Atwood.

I believe we would know more if a search dog had been brought to the scene next morning on Tuesday and given items from her clothes and bags--her running shoes?--for scent instead of the little used little worn new gloves.

There is much more detail on the Maura site about the failures of police in this case for those who are interested, especially officer Smith not admitting on Wednesday night to family that he knew a young girl had been driving the abandoned car (because Atwood had told him and then they searched). He claimed all he knew after running the MA license plate was that the car was registered to and owned by Fred Murray and that he assumed the driver (Fred?) had got a ride from someone. And Fred Murray's house was not called by police about the car until after 4pm on Tuesday nearly 24 hours later.

I just wanted to let the family know my thoughts. I think 20/20 did an outstanding presentation of the story. I can see even from my little corner of the world that people are very interested in the story. The hits to the blog from Google and other searches for Maura are quite high. I even received a sympathetic email from a viewer.

I have met Sharon (and Fred) previously when we were in NYC to film Montel. Sharon looked lovely as ever, but the pain in her eyes was evident. I know Fred is critized by some for his actions, but he is justified. I know full well about LE inaction and what that can mean to a case like this.

For Maura and Jason, wherever you are. You are loved and missed.

I really thought that 20/20 did I nice job.


I personally do not understand the critisism of parents in these cases.
I understand that many are non confrontational and perhaps would not approach authority figures in such a way .. IMO to the detriment of the missing loved one.
I would think that many would react they very same way as Fred has. I know I would.

The thing that didnt make sense to me is maura telling the bus driver she called AAA then them saying cell phones dont work out there and he calls the police for what???probably to justify if anyone seen him why he was around that area in the first place to throw people off .I feel like they should be looking at the guy driving the bus a LOT more closely.also if she voluntarilly left,she wouldnt have crashed her transportation on the road and what walked???highly unlikely unless someone was waiting for her which again seems unlikely I still think the bus driver may know more I mean if I saw a lady on the road and she said she called AAA and seemes O>K I would not call the police to her..just my opinion...

I watched 20/20 last night also. It appeared to me that Maura left voluntarily to go to New Hampshire because she had e-mailed her professors there was a death in the family and that she was leaving. Her dorm room had been packed up. I think an unforseen accident happened and she was accosted by a stranger. Why did she tell the bus driver she had called AAA when her cell phone wouldn't work in the area? And what is in the documents that the police have that they won't show Maura's father? The police are just adding to the mystery.

What is interesting is that Maura left West Point before finishing and left the nursing program at U of Mass before finishing it also. Probably doesn't mean anything, just a fleeting observation.

Just to clarify... if I remember right, the show last night on 20/20 stated that not only did the bus driver call 911 when he got home, but the house directly across from where Maura crash ALSO called 911.

So, IMO, the bus driver wasn't trying to cover up any nefarious plot... he was trying to help a stranded young lady by getting her help that she needed because HE knew that cell service wasn't available in that area.

cynpat2000 said:

The thing that didnt make sense to me is maura telling the bus driver she called AAA then them saying cell phones dont work out there and he calls the police for what???probably to justify if anyone seen him why he was around that area in the first place to throw people off .I feel like they should be looking at the guy driving the bus a LOT more closely.also if she voluntarilly left,she wouldnt have crashed her transportation on the road and what walked???highly unlikely unless someone was waiting for her which again seems unlikely I still think the bus driver may know more I mean if I saw a lady on the road and she said she called AAA and seemes O>K I would not call the police to her..just my opinion...

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cynpat2000 said:

The thing that didnt make sense to me is maura telling the bus driver she called AAA then them saying cell phones dont work out there and he calls the police for what???probably to justify if anyone seen him why he was around that area in the first place to throw people off .I feel like they should be looking at the guy driving the bus a LOT more closely.also if she voluntarilly left,she wouldnt have crashed her transportation on the road and what walked???highly unlikely unless someone was waiting for her which again seems unlikely I still think the bus driver may know more I mean if I saw a lady on the road and she said she called AAA and seemes O>K I would not call the police to her..just my opinion...

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Here is a quote from a previous thread:
Maura had been recruited by many schools to run track and cross country. She competed in Track and Cross Country for both West Point and UMass Amherst until the fall of 2003. Weather was not a consideration for Maura and her love of running. She ran no less than 5-6 miles each day. She was dedicated to daily running in spite of hot or cold temps, rain or snow. Maura routinely ran 5 kilometers in just over 18minutes, and still holds competitive both Track and Cross Country records. Tom Zamagni, one of her soccer and basketball coaches when she was in elementary school,l said that when Maura Murray broke the girl's two-mile track record at Whitman-Hanson High School, she did so by 40 seconds. The record still stands.

So, she probably didn't "walk" away from the scene.

They (20/20) didn't mention anything about the phone call Lt Rausch received from Maura 2 days after she went missing or that she made a big withdraw from her bank account the day she went missing or about the construction worker that saw her an hour or so after the accident running down the road.

Also, the comment made by cynpat about the SBD is probably the main reason people don't come forward with information. He was just trying to help and all of a sudden people look at him as a POI.

Cynpat, your absolutely right that it doesn't make sense Maura telling the SBD that she had called AAA when she had not.......why would Maura not want him to call for help???

If Maura was running away and didn't want to be found, it is logical that she did not want the bus driver to get help for her.
I have NO idea how she was going to get help for herself to fix her car, so you can add that to one of the dozens of unanswered questions.

Also, *why* didn't 20/20 report the phone call to Lt. Rausch?

What did Maura say in that phone call?

I just read the following quote:
" According to Murray's family, specially trained dogs used in the search followed her scent from her car to the beginning of bus driver Atwood's driveway, about 100 yards away, before losing it. "

Obviously, she either accepted a ride from a stranger, or she was abducted by the bus driver. It IS rather odd that the dogs lost her scent at his driveway.

Thoughts anyone??

Czechmate,

you are offering what I have called, I believe correctly, the track star theory of Maura's leaving the Swiftwater crash scene.

As recently as a few weeks ago there was a post by Sharon on<modsnip - no longer a working website>, Lt R's Mother who appeared on 20/20, describing how Maura would get up early and take off for long runs without leaving any note or telling anyone where she was going and would then say she could outrun anyone who tried to catch her.

As the PI said the temp that night was 30 or higher (not 10-12), it was bright moonlight, Maura was wearing light sole sport shoes (not her track shoes still in the bags in the car), and if she was not injured from the airbag having deployed, many people including her Dad believed from the get-go that she could gone a long distance on foot from the scene even as long as the sixteen or seventeen miles to Lincoln on 112 east let alone back to Wells River on 112 west.

Tristan,

the last person to see Maura, I believe, was the construction worker who was belatedly contacted by police (he had talked to neighbors, he did not himself go to police, he had claimed no knowledge of Maura's disappearance on Feb 14 and Feb 19 when interviewed--see Case Info on the Maura site) in late April of 2004 giving a story of a youngster "hurrying...at a fast clip about four miles east on 112 near its merge split with 116 seeing around 8.15 as he returned from his work site in Franconia.

This guy lived right across the street from Atwood and still does to my knowledge while the Atwoods have moved to Florida.

There has been a great deal of abuse of Atwood on the Maura site. I believe he was a totally honest and helpful passerby whose offer of help would have been accepted by Maura under normal circumstances but it is clear she wanted to keep going that night and to avoid police.

Finally, the search dog did not arrive till 36 hours later and was only given a little worn glove for scent. See post by Peabody many miles back on this site, but the point is that if the dog had been there the next morning with one of her running shoes for scent, the result would likely have been more useful.

Amraann said:

I really thought that 20/20 did I nice job.


I personally do not understand the critisism of parents in these cases.
I understand that many are non confrontational and perhaps would not approach authority figures in such a way .. IMO to the detriment of the missing loved one.
I would think that many would react they very same way as Fred has. I know I would.

Click to expand...

I would too. I would be flipping out, and nobody would stop me. I would be persistant and angry that the police would not let me see what they have. Everyone reacts different, I can only say what I would do and it would not be pretty.

Let me ask just a few questions to those of you who have been follwing this case from day one, I have not.
1st Could Maura have hit her head and had some type of amnesia?
2nd Could she have wondered off on her own and got lost in the woods to never be found? That has happened.......
I know its possible that somebody could have snatched her as well, we see that all too much. I am just brainstorming here, I know by all accounts Mauras family said she would have never ran off or done anything of that sorts, but it is very weird that she packed up and told her teacher there was a death. Was someone maybe stalking Maura?

No one answered my question about the phone call.
WHAT was said in that phone call a few days after th accident?

Also, how well was Atwood investigated? I'm not saying he took her, only that every possibilty should be looked into. People don't just "disappear."
They are always somewhere....we just don't know where.