Woman, 3 Children Found Dead in SUV - Page 7

nanandjim · #**151** 06-17-2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoMom

...To me, the big question to ask him is: what were you doing between the time your family was murdered and the time you were found?

Yes, hopefully, the ME can narrow down their time of death from stomach contents.

I think that this crime was probably well planned. I just don't believe that she shot at his thigh. I guess that he can say that they wrestled with the gun and that's where the shot landed.

I can't help but think that if she suddenly went off the deep end while he was fastening the luggage rack that she would have shot him in the chest or head.

Of course, I just do not buy the story. I feel certain that LE doesn't either.

calidreamin · #**152** 06-17-2007, 01:19 PM

Hi everyone, this case has really bothered me too. I think it is because not only do I believe this guy killed his wife and children but to blame the kids murder on their mom is such a low blow

. I am really worried that with his line of work he might have covered his tracks well.

Amraann · #**153** 06-17-2007, 03:19 PM

I don't see how he could cover his tracks...
If she shot that gun as many times as reported then their will be a lot of gun residue on her hands.

There is no way he could mimic that without holding her hand as he fired everyshot and I think that would leave some residue on him.

calidreamin · #**154** 06-17-2007, 03:50 PM

I know what you mean about the gun residue Amraan and that is a very good point. Does anyone know if gun residue can be washed off easily or not?

Amraann · #**155** 06-17-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calidreamin

I know what you mean about the gun residue Amraan and that is a very good point. Does anyone know if gun residue can be washed off easily or not?

I don't know why I think this.... but... I think it is not.
Maybe something I read somewhere.. But I don't think it does..

southcitymom · #**156** 06-17-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amraann

I don't see how he could cover his tracks...
If she shot that gun as many times as reported then their will be a lot of gun residue on her hands.

There is no way he could mimic that without holding her hand as he fired everyshot and I think that would leave some residue on him.

I agree with this. My understanding is that gun residue is NOT easily removed. The wife would have it all over her if she fired those shots.

I have also been giving more thought to the idea of a suicide pact that went wrong. There are just too many unanswered questions to really make a call yet. I still lean towards the husband's story as being the truth, but there is so much we just don't know yet.

meowy · #**157** 06-17-2007, 05:32 PM

This has "future Law and Order episode" written all over it.

curves · #**158** 06-17-2007, 06:10 PM

I thought gun residue is undetectable within about 4 hours? I could be wrong but there was a case in New Zealand - the Bain family murders and one of the problems with saying whether the son or father did it was that they didn't test the son's hands (the only surviving member) or the fathers hands for gun residue straight away and then it was too late. Maybe that explains the delay and why he didn't call the police as soon as he could?

twinkiesmom · #**159** 06-17-2007, 06:24 PM

I don't know if the water park in Springfield is crappy or not, but it's really doubtful you would go all the way down there on a day trip with no accomodations reserved, and no arrangements made to take care of the dogs (as far as we know).

nanandjim · #**160** 06-17-2007, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amraann

I don't see how he could cover his tracks...
If she shot that gun as many times as reported then their will be a lot of gun residue on her hands.

There is no way he could mimic that without holding her hand as he fired everyshot and I think that would leave some residue on him.

You bring up something very interesting. Perhaps, the children were first shot by him and then he used his dead wife's hand to shoot them again in order for her hand to have gun residue on it.

I believe that he could have washed his hands thereby eliminating gun residue on his hands.

soobs · #**161** 06-17-2007, 06:31 PM

This whole scenario is not passing the smell test. Great point about gun residue Curves. I was also thinking how his background would help him cover up a crime IF he did it. And it looks suspicious that he pulled a SP, setting up a romantic weekend to look like the perfect husband, similar to SP leaving lovey dovey messages on Laci's answering machine. Why not just run off to Mexico and leave the kids alone. Gotta sob here, too sad.

My next question is, was she unstable? Were things crumbling and she couldn't bear to see her children suffer? Make him suffer instead? Lots of unanswered questions.

JMHO

soobs · #**162** 06-17-2007, 06:33 PM

He could have used gloves, right?

soobs · #**163** 06-17-2007, 06:34 PM

Maybe it took him "hours" to get up the nerve to shot himself!

JMHO

southcitymom · #**164** 06-17-2007, 06:41 PM

Even if the residue issue could be covered up, I can't imagine that HIS bullet wound could be staged to seem that she shot him when he really shot himself.

From what I've read - he was coming back around to get into the driver's seat when he says she shot him from her passenger-sde side...I can't think of a way he could shoot himself in such a manner that would replicate this.

fran · #**165** 06-17-2007, 07:23 PM

I don't think we're going to hear about the 'results' of this investigation overnight. IMHO, because of the amount of forensics involved, plus the additonal info needed, the background info (ie their life and financials, etc), it's going to be a couple of weeks before the results are in. Even then it could be merky, imo.

It seems simple as whatever happened that night, it happened within a 60 second period, imho. Once the 'shooting' began, it had to have taken place quickly, or someone else would have been able to get away, just like the husband managed to.

I stick by my 'gut instinct' in that I don't think it was the wife. I believe this was a premeditated act on behalf of the husband. I could be wrong and IF proven such, I'll be the first to admit it. But,.............I don't think so.

What makes me believe that? The husband took waayyy too long to report the incident. IF it had happened as he said, he would have either tried to save the kids, unless he's a complete COWARD (which I feel he is because I believe he killed his defenseless family) and he would have summoned help hours earlier than he did.

IF he did it, imho, he took that time to stage the scene to make his WIFE look like the perp. He may even succeed at that endeavor too. About the only evidence, within the vehicle that could be looked at under a microscope is the gun residue and the tragectory of the bulletts.

If done in a certain way, it COULD look as if the wife is the one who discharged all the bulletts. Say she was sitting there with her window down and the husband comes up behind her, kills her first, leans over her, shoots the kids, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam,.............all of the shots would appear to come from the wife's sitting position. Then all he'd need to do is use her dead hand to fire off the shot that struck him in the thigh. IF the LE handling the case misses anything, it COULD look as if she did it.

The study of the gun residue is merky at best. I've been reading up on it and if LE didn't handle this with the utmost of care, this case will end with the wife coming in as the guilty party. I pray that while LE is looking into the gun residue on the wife's hands and clothing, they also take into account the # of times the gun was fired, do SEVERAL test runs with a technician, and see just HOW MUCH RESIDUE is on the tech's hands after dispensing the gun that many times. THAT might be a detail not taken into consideration, should the husband turn out to be the perp.

But.....................fwiw, and IF it was the husband who did this, he may not have done all of his homework, and let's hope that's the case here. You see, if it happened as he said, he would have been sitting in the driver's seat as she shot at him, or he was rolling out of the car to get away from her. Well, the gun residue doesn't just appear on the perp and their clothing, it also appears splattered out in the direction of the shot as well; which would mean gun residue coming towards the driver's side, maybe on the door, the driver's seat, and the steering wheel as well as the steering column, must be present and coming from the proper direction.

There's also the sticky little thing called finger prints. Not just prints on the handle of the gun, but the bulletts, the casings, the trigger. Because of the multiple of shots fired, I'm assuming this HAD to have been an automatic, which, IF I'm not mistaken, takes a mechanism that you pull back to begin firing. Face it, if her prints or palm print aren't on that and there are NO prints on it, the gun was 'wiped.'

I still say IF the husband did this, he had plenty of time to wash himself off and change his clothes. IF he changed his clothes, I hope LE checked his luggage and IF nothing found there, they have search dogs go into that area and LOOK for his clothes he MAY have been wearing when the crime occurred.

Like they say, 'the devil is in the details.'

JMHO
fran

JanetElaine · #**166** 06-17-2007, 07:27 PM

Great post, Fran!

becklynn · #**167** 06-17-2007, 07:36 PM

It keeps sticking in my mind that the drivers door was open and the back passenger door was open. He may have gotten out, went around and come up from behind, open the door to where the kids were and shoot everyone from there. Or the rear passenger door may have been opened by someone checking on the welfare of the family after the shooting.

greeneyz · #**168** 06-17-2007, 08:29 PM

I keep thinking about this case trying to figure the "whys" and the "hows". Has it been proven yet as to what time they left home? I know I have read a neighbor saw thier SUV in the driveway at 3 a.m. and it was also reported that someone in Channahon heard gunshots at 10 p.m. and I have also read 2:30 a.m. So we really have no solid facts just media reports with timelines that aren't matching. I have gone as far as to wonder if they were in fact shot in Channahon or somewhere else then he drove the van to that area...until the timelines make sense to me I am really on the fence on this. When all the test results comeback from forensics and the ME I think it will be much clearer as to what really happened in that vehicle. Also we don't know if the family had mentioned thier plans to the friends they had over to dinner or if the mother had mentioned thier plans to her sister? I haven't seen it mentioned one way or the other. Or have I missed something??? What a sad story, I feel for both families, I can't even imagine how confused and hurt they must feel at this time.

i.b.nora · #**169** 06-17-2007, 08:57 PM

Where the SUV was Found

This is an aerial shot of the cell tower where the SUV was parked.
You can change the view to get a better idea of the nearby houses, roads, etc.
His story is very suspect, imo.

hollyjokers · #**170** 06-17-2007, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoMom

To me, the big question to ask him is: what were you doing between the time your family was murdered and the time you were found?

Another would be when was this trip to the waterpark planned. Kimberly spoke to her sister at 8:55pm & she did not mention anything about it. Her mother who knew about the weekend getaway did not know, nor did the Camp Invention staff (Cassandra was named Camper of the Day on Wednesday).

So reminiscent of a certain solo fishing trip...

Cubby · #**171** 06-17-2007, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollyjokers

Another would be when was this trip to the waterpark planned. Kimberly spoke to her sister at 8:55pm & she did not mention anything about it. Her mother who knew about the weekend getaway did not know, nor did the Camp Invention staff (Cassandra was named Camper of the Day on Wednesday).

So reminiscent of a certain solo fishing trip...

Could have been "spontaneous" , did they frequent water parks? Maybe they already hit the Dells (water park capital) and other local water parks so they decided on visiting the one in Springfield. Did they take spontaneous short trips? Questions my moms SO brought up when we were discussing this...... he's a very long since retired Chief of Police from Sandwich IL.

Camper · #**172** 06-17-2007, 11:44 PM

Thinking that a second honeymoon on the weekend that included Fathers Day was maybe sort of not a nice gesture for the dad. Most likely the couple would have been back sometime on Fathers Day, but. Hmmm.

Wonder what day their wedding anniversary fell on, OR would have fallen on?

We must have a public record sleuth reading that can dig that up maybe, huh?

.

fran · #**173** 06-18-2007, 12:01 AM

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/b...NGS_S2.article

Experts say Vaughn slayings don't fit profile

June 17, 2007
By ANDRE SALLES Staff Writer

Two national experts on mothers who kill their children say the case of Kimberly Vaughn of Oswego does not fit the usual profile.

Cheryl Meyer, an associate professor at Wright State University's School of Professional Psychology in Dayton, Ohio, and Michelle Oberman, a professor of law at Santa Clara University in California (and formerly of Chicago's DePaul University), co-authored the book Mothers Who Kill Their Children in 2001. Together, they have researched thousands of cases of filicide -- parents killing their children -- and they are often contacted for their expertise.

And when asked separately, each had similar questions about the early Thursday incident, in which Vaughn and her three children were found dead in the family's SUV, parked off the side of the road near Interstate 55. The children -- Abigayle, 12, Cassandra, 11, and Blake, 8 -- were shot multiple times, while Vaughn herself was shot once in the head, police said.

..............................snip................ ................

Meyer said that stories of a mother's troubled life will usually surface immediately after a tragedy of this sort -- and that has not happened yet in the Vaughn case. Neighbors and friends describe the Vaughns as "a great family." The couple planned to visit Missouri this weekend to celebrate their 13th wedding anniversary.

These inconsistencies led Meyer to express her doubts -- she said that the story does not fit "99 percent of the cases I've seen."

"I've seen thousands of these," she said. "Once you start reading, they start quickly looking alike. I can tell within three sentences which category they fit into. This just doesn't fit anything."

more at link.........

fran · #**174** 06-18-2007, 12:13 AM

In response to the above news article where this story doesn't fit,.........I AGREE!!

It doesn't fit a woman who's unhappy. She'd just gotten a DEGREE! for crying out loud. Why would she kill her entire family?!

No way Jose!

IMHO, they may have been heavily in debt. I know that hasn't come out yet, but I'm tellin' ya, that's it. The husband probably was hiding it from the wife.

Their mortgage was with a subprime lender,(you don't have to verify your income), they got a FULL PRICE mortgage. They just got their new TAX BILL. She was attending Phoenix Online. Do you know how expensive that is?

The wife was outgoing, the husband was quiet. The husband was adoring and he also went out of town a lot. He operated his business out of his home.
It seems everyone knew her well, but he, being quiet, probably wasn't as well known by the neighbors.

Something is NOT right here, IMHO. I'm not worried though, LE will figure it out. I hope!

JMHO
fran

greeneyz · #**175** 06-18-2007, 12:26 AM

Don't know if this has been posted yet...so sad for the children that were thier friends

"Behind the home of the Oswego mother and her three children who were found shot to death Thursday morning, three neighborhood kids tried to drown the somber mood with squeals and giggles.
But in between games with the water hose on a sunny Friday morning, they paused to wonder why anyone would want to harm the nice children who played in the adjacent back yard."

More here: http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/b...NGS_S1.article