This thread is for the posters that believe Caylee is still alive # 3

christine2448 · Sep 12, 2008

This thread is for those THAT BELIEVE THERE IS A POSSIBILITY CAYLEE MAY STILL BE ALIVE.

Do not come in here and argue why she is dead. This is set up for those that do not believe Caylee is dead to support one another and sleuth w/o having to defend themselves every other post.

They have a right to have this 'spot' as our members just as those that believe she is no longer with us have threads relating. You can come here, they can go there, everyone just stay on topic, respectfully.

I have seen a few attacks on members w/the theory of this topic get bashed for posting in other threads....."we can't come in yer thread, stay outta ours"....NOT. They wouldn't need this thread and to be moderated this way if you all could stay on topic and be respectful...stayin on topic of THIS thread. Nuff said, this is clear.

No one is trying to hush anyone's opinions by having this specific thread, I just feel the people who DO have this opinion should be able to discuss w/o being attacked.

There are plenty of threads to debate this issue..dead or alive...not here.

If you post here, do so respectfully, staying on topic of the thread.

There are a gazillion threads discussing Caylee's death (honestly, as an investigator, until we have the whole story, all the facts, anything is possible, ANYTHING....what if, just what if, she is alive....we have posters w/pics of Caylee with wings, rest in peace....IMO, it's better to be positive and hopeful, we have no clue the evidence right now, no clue, the media gets a lot of things wrong, I did 2 interviews the last few weeks for a recent case, 85% of the facts were off....I want them to be wrong!)

keeponsearching · Sep 12, 2008

thanks christine!

AutomaticAuttie · Sep 12, 2008

Thank you!

keeponsearching · Sep 12, 2008

I am not sure if this has been posted. But I am sure this should be posted somewhere else but I wanted to see if you all had seen it. On ww myspace in his who i like to meet.

Who I'd like to meet:
i meet you a short while ago but you are on a little vacation rigt now. but will see you soon we all hope

I was snoooping in his to look at his friends to try to figure out what Casey could possible be doing all day. Anyways that was posted.. Made me wonder what he is talking about.

Rose Mom · Sep 12, 2008

:Banane21:
(I love this one)

Ditto :

Thank-you for all you do......

Nice Avatar !!!!

Addicted2CSI · Sep 12, 2008

JustInCase said:
I'll just continue ...

Another ODD thing (or two, or three, etc.) about KIO's statement,

"Yes I met the father of Caylee ... "

LE skipped over that statement as if it were never made ... not one single question of her to elaborate on that matter ...

IF it was JO, as Casey and the Anthonys have said, then of course Kio met him. They were in the same graduating class. :wink:

Rose Mom · Sep 12, 2008

Originally Posted by ladytexan
Greetings from Texas!

I am responding to the many questions a day late from a thread which is now closed.

First of all, proper protocol was followed by me in calling in my tip to crimeline. Yes, it would have been extremely helpful to have pictures, sketches you name it from the LE and/or the Anthony family out there in public view, so I could see for myself who I was looking at. I only had one picture and that was Caylee. Without anything else, there was nothing I could do.

For instance….the Jeff Hopkins son who Casey says ZG babysat for and who referred her to this ZG babysitter…what is his approximate age? Does anyone know? If I knew the answer to this question along with a description of this child, I might be able to fit more pieces of my puzzle together.

I can’t just take it upon myself to play detective! That’s absurd!

It’s obvious to me either way, dead or alive, Casey doesn’t want her daughter to be found. I believe there are endless possibilities in this case.

Cindy spoke out many times saying Casey know who has her daughter, but doesn’t know where she’s at. Does Cindy know something? Could there be an ounce of truth to this?

Maybe things got out of hand after Cindy called 911 and Casey had to keep up her cherade. Cindy was going to file for custody of Caylee and Casey was getting kicked out of the house. I believe Casey would have done anything to keep Caylee away from Cindy who had taken her place and became the princess in the family.

Maybe Lee knows something? One posibilty IMO, IF she gave Caylee to her brother Lee who in turn gave her to someone else in order to keep Caylee away from Cindy. Remember, Casey and Lee are close. Why else was Lee the only one to speak out against taking a lie detector test after Cindy and George said they would take it? What does he have to hide?

I for one am not 100% certain she is alive or dead. In the Good Ol USA a person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law no matter what we think here. We certainly don’t hear now what will come out at trial.

I saw on Fox news a few days ago a Full interview with Judge Napolitano who says LE leaks lies to the press/public to try to get to the truth.
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/My...1&locale=EN-US

For me there is too much doubt in my mind to have her convicted of murder right now. Anything is possible.

Casey Anthony’s behavior in any scenario is not normal, the way you and I think is normal behavior after a child goes missing. Who said Casey is normal? I am not a psychiatrist who can diagnose Casey, but one thing I do know she is a pathological liar who steals from her family and friends.

The inconsistent. circumstantial evidence is overwhelming in this case. Just for starters:
Caylee last seen dates: Cindy’s very first date she claimed she last saw Caylee was
June 7. I believe you can hear it in her 911 call. Casey said she dropped off Caylee at Sawgrass Apts. with ZG and last saw Caylee June 9. Then Cindy her last seen date to June 9. Then the June 15 fathers day video was released and Cindy says oh yeah then it’s June 15, (that is if the date was correct on their camera) Then George says he saw her last on June 16.
Did George Anthony really last see his granddaughter Caylee on June 16, 2008? Or June 6, 2008 as the Search Warrant states? His Own Signed Statement to LE.

On top of all this go to www.HelpFindCaylee.com “Have You Seen Me?” the date is June 9, 2008.

Little did Casey know she would get busted for stealing money from her friend and it all get this far out of control.

I hope the final DNA tests are released soon and we will know one way or another.

IMHO

__________________________________________________________________________
I wanted to bring this over as I think so much thought went into posting this ... I hate to lose it on the closed thread

christine2448 · Sep 12, 2008

FYI....please read original post, I added to it, after thought.

JustInCase · Sep 12, 2008

JustInCase said:
Kio once again ...

LE should have said:

"So you said it's been a couple years since you last saw Casey ... Since Middle School right? ... [And yes that was one more of her contradicting statements] ...

... but you are now what, 22 ... oh wait nevermind, you changed your statement to say you and Casey worked together at Universal ... Are you upset w/ Casey that she did not allow you to adopt her Caylee?

There a couple of circumstantial dates I can come up with, that she is not on line and has not been on the phone.

It of course would be more helpful if we had her incoming calls, [which for some unkown reason we don't] on the dates LE released. We only have the "finger pointing" outgoing calls.

I feel there was at least one or two obvious incoming calls ... since she did check her VM!

Sorry for those of you who don't seem understand that we've been given ... fed ... what easily establishes guilt in this case.

I understand that Casey's statements and behavior stand alone, however, if I was on jury that wouldn't do it for me...

I'm not exluding, the media's DNA leaks, and the use of "likely to" "implies" and "leads us to believe" by LE either ...

I'm simply taking in ALL angles ... If that hurts your "feelers" and you want to argue with me and say malicious things even when I post on other threads, that's your perogative.

You, who are non-believers, that Caylee may be alive, want to come and question us to point you [somehow] in the right direction, an A-symetrical direction. There is no direction, we are not near sighted, nor far sighted, we are just seeking every geometrical angle that we can. We WILL continue to seek those angles with or without your support.

The name of this thread is not "Prove Casey is telling the truth!" NO one has said or implied that Casye is telling the truth. But that goes without saying, why should everyone else's word be taken at face value? Because they said it, that makes their statements true?

Their are many angles that simply cannot be posted here on WS's due to TOS. Angles that just cannot and will not be shared here. Questions that cannot be answered ... Things just aren't always that black and white.

Seranade · Sep 12, 2008

Thank you so much Christine for such wise comments.

I wanted to repost here some of my reasons for having reasonable doubts

sorry it's so long)

Here is my thinking on the case, which I hope to be able to articulate without offending anyone. I am not sure if Caylee is dead or alive. I agree that it looks bad. However, I have a huge mountain of reasonable doubt. There are four things about this case I know for sure:

1- Caylee is an adorable Angel and she will always be in my heart, no matter what happens.
2- Casey is a liar and a thief.
3- Caylee is missing.
4- There was a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car.

Now, here is why I have reasonable doubt:

Many people here on this board, in the media, and in the general public have made the statement "I trust LE 100%".

This is a dangerous attitude for citizens of a democracy to take. Trusting authority completely is just asking for tyranny. There are many reasons to take the pronouncements of LE skeptically, not least of which they have made many honest mistakes, or mistakes born of incompetence and a desire to quickly close a case, high profile or otherwise.

But in many instances LE have made corrupt "mistakes". Remember the Riley Fox case? I bet the Sheriff in that case told the media many lies about Kevin Fox in a corrupt desire to be re-elected. Kevin Fox is sitting home today, innocent as can be while the real murderer has had years of freedom while the evidence grows cold.

LE has said that there are "indications" "suggestions" that Caylee was in the trunk, dead. There is no reason, if they have the reports back from the labs and they show Caylee to be dead, for them NOT to come right out and say: "Caylee was dead in the trunk. No question". Forensic science of this sort does not 'indicate' anything. Caylee is either dead or alive. Period.

Lies, distortions, and spin in the media-(remember "WMD"?)

Chloroform

Media reports have taken the leaks about chloroform and run with them. According to NG and the rest of the media the trunk had "significant amounts" of and the air was "saturated" with chloroform. The whole world now thinks Casey either used the chemical to drug Caylee or to murder her. But could that possibly be true?

Chloroform is an ingredient in many pesticides. If Casey had used it on Caylee, there would have been NO INSECT ACTIVITY in the trunk of her car at the tow yard. But according to the testimony of the tow yard employee, we know that there was. If the trunk was "saturated" at the time of testing, how much moreso must it have been at the tow yard?

ZG/Samantha/the script

How do we know that Casey ever changed her story on this score? First, LP said that Casey told him the script story in the living room of the Anthony home. When he told NG about it, he added that he told Casey he didn't want to know from ZG. Casey then told him to get out of her house. NG was outraged that she would have the gall to tell him that about her parents home.

Then, someone must have pointed out to LP that he had earlier said that Casey never said ONE WORD to him about the case while he was down in Orlando. So then RD comes out with the story that Casey told him the story as they rode alone to her attorney's office.

That version must not have worked out too well either as LP NOW says (on Fox the other afternoon) that CINDY told him the story. How are we to find this supposed change in Casey's story credible? I don't think we can until we have proof.

Now, many people on this board and in the general public have said "Presumption of Innocence only applies in a court of law!! The public can think/say whatever they want"

Technically, that is true. But *who* in a court of law is it most crucial that they apply this principle? The jurors, of course. And where do the jurors come from? The public. If it is ok, if it is allowed, if the public *allows* themselves to presume the guilt of every person LE investigates or even arrests for crimes then how is any accused person to ever hope to receive a fair trial from an untainted jury?

Remember Sam Shepherd? The US Supreme Court overturned a guilty verdict saying pre-trial publicity had tainted the jury's deliberations.

Remember Richard Jewel? The FBI had him tried and convicted and the media went right along with the witch hunt. Some of them are very sorry they did that but it hasn't seemed to have changed the way they operate.

All I am saying is things are not always as they seem. Authorities can lie, authorities can make mistakes and the public has a solemn duty not to turn into a lynch mob and convict a person of murder before all of the facts are laid bare, before the accused has a chance to confront and cross-examine the evidence against her, and certainly not on the word of sensationalist media who seem in many instances to have a blatant disregard for the truth.

Evan's Mom · Sep 12, 2008

I'm bring this over from the other thread in case anyone wants to add or edit the spreadsheets in order to keep track of everyone and tips we think are important to remember.

Okay, I think I have the spreadsheet set up so that anyone can view and edit it. Please everyone, feel free to make it better.
I'm trying to keep up with the board and fool with the spreadsheets all while I'm working and trying to hide what I'm doing from my boss.

Here are the published links:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...JH_wGwlUu9zOUQ

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...JH-zH8j1SGvxHg

Anyone can view and anyone can edit.
The originals are at the gmail address and it seems they are easier to edit there.

Again, here's the login info:

findcayleeanthony@gmail.com
12341234

I hope you guys don't mind, but I'm going to bump this post up periodically.

christine2448 · Sep 12, 2008

Seranade said:
Thank you so much Christine for such wise comments.

I wanted to repost here some of my reasons for having reasonable doubtssorry it's so long)

Here is my thinking on the case, which I hope to be able to articulate without offending anyone. I am not sure if Caylee is dead or alive. I agree that it looks bad. However, I have a huge mountain of reasonable doubt. There are four things about this case I know for sure:

1- Caylee is an adorable Angel and she will always be in my heart, no matter what happens.
2- Casey is a liar and a thief.
3- Caylee is missing.
4- There was a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car.

Now, here is why I have reasonable doubt:

Many people here on this board, in the media, and in the general public have made the statement "I trust LE 100%".

This is a dangerous attitude for citizens of a democracy to take. Trusting authority completely is just asking for tyranny. There are many reasons to take the pronouncements of LE skeptically, not least of which they have made many honest mistakes, or mistakes born of incompetence and a desire to quickly close a case, high profile or otherwise.

But in many instances LE have made corrupt "mistakes". Remember the Riley Fox case? I bet the Sheriff in that case told the media many lies about Kevin Fox in a corrupt desire to be re-elected. Kevin Fox is sitting home today, innocent as can be while the real murderer has had years of freedom while the evidence grows cold.

LE has said that there are "indications" "suggestions" that Caylee was in the trunk, dead. There is no reason, if they have the reports back from the labs and they show Caylee to be dead, for them NOT to come right out and say: "Caylee was dead in the trunk. No question". Forensic science of this sort does not 'indicate' anything. Caylee is either dead or alive. Period.

Lies, distortions, and spin in the media-(remember "WMD"?)

Chloroform

Media reports have taken the leaks about chloroform and run with them. According to NG and the rest of the media the trunk had "significant amounts" of and the air was "saturated" with chloroform. The whole world now thinks Casey either used the chemical to drug Caylee or to murder her. But could that possibly be true?

Chloroform is an ingredient in many pesticides. If Casey had used it on Caylee, there would have been NO INSECT ACTIVITY in the trunk of her car at the tow yard. But according to the testimony of the tow yard employee, we know that there was. If the trunk was "saturated" at the time of testing, how much moreso must it have been at the tow yard?

ZG/Samantha/the script

How do we know that Casey ever changed her story on this score? First, LP said that Casey told him the script story in the living room of the Anthony home. When he told NG about it, he added that he told Casey he didn't want to know from ZG. Casey then told him to get out of her house. NG was outraged that she would have the gall to tell him that about her parents home.

Then, someone must have pointed out to LP that he had earlier said that Casey never said ONE WORD to him about the case while he was down in Orlando. So then RD comes out with the story that Casey told him the story as they rode alone to her attorney's office.

That version must not have worked out too well either as LP NOW says (on Fox the other afternoon) that CINDY told him the story. How are we to find this supposed change in Casey's story credible? I don't think we can until we have proof.

Now, many people on this board and in the general public have said "Presumption of Innocence only applies in a court of law!! The public can think/say whatever they want"

Technically, that is true. But *who* in a court of law is it most crucial that they apply this principle? The jurors, of course. And where do the jurors come from? The public. If it is ok, if it is allowed, if the public *allows* themselves to presume the guilt of every person LE investigates or even arrests for crimes then how is any accused person to ever hope to receive a fair trial from an untainted jury?

Remember Sam Shepherd? The US Supreme Court overturned a guilty verdict saying pre-trial publicity had tainted the jury's deliberations.

Remember Richard Jewel? The FBI had him tried and convicted and the media went right along with the witch hunt. Some of them are very sorry they did that but it hasn't seemed to have changed the way they operate.

All I am saying is things are not always as they seem. Authorities can lie, authorities can make mistakes and the public has a solemn duty not to turn into a lynch mob and convict a person of murder before all of the facts are laid bare, before the accused has a chance to confront and cross-examine the evidence against her, and certainly not on the word of sensationalist media who seem in many instances to have a blatant disregard for the truth.

EGGSCELLENT POST!!!!!!!!! imo, fwiw

:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

eta...I'd like to recopy this in a couple of other threads??

Evan's Mom · Sep 12, 2008

Seranade said:
Thank you so much Christine for such wise comments.

I wanted to repost here some of my reasons for having reasonable doubtssorry it's so long)

Here is my thinking on the case, which I hope to be able to articulate without offending anyone. I am not sure if Caylee is dead or alive. I agree that it looks bad. However, I have a huge mountain of reasonable doubt. There are four things about this case I know for sure:

1- Caylee is an adorable Angel and she will always be in my heart, no matter what happens.
2- Casey is a liar and a thief.
3- Caylee is missing.
4- There was a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car.

Now, here is why I have reasonable doubt:

All I am saying is things are not always as they seem. Authorities can lie, authorities can make mistakes and the public has a solemn duty not to turn into a lynch mob and convict a person of murder before all of the facts are laid bare, before the accused has a chance to confront and cross-examine the evidence against her, and certainly not on the word of sensationalist media who seem in many instances to have a blatant disregard for the truth.

*Respectfully snipped

One of the best posts I've read on this forum.

Seranade · Sep 12, 2008

christine2448 said:
EGGSCELLENT POST!!!!!!!!! imo, fwiw

:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

eta...I'd like to recopy this in a couple of other threads??

THANK you! All I ask is that people withhold judgement until all the facts are known.

And of course you can copy it wherever you like.

Evan's Mom · Sep 12, 2008

suspicious mind said:
hey, I have aquestion. How would you all feel about a seperate thread for casey supporters. B/C I am of the opinion just b/c you believe Caylee is alive, doesn't mean you support KC. I could be wrong, it's happened before.

Yikes, that's a little scary.
Are there any of those?

Seranade · Sep 12, 2008

suspicious mind
snipped

great post, serenade :clap: though it mostly consists of reasons you believe kc is innocent. even if we find Caylee alive, that doesn't mean kc is innocent. just means she didn't kill her. people wouldn't be angry at kc if they didn't believe she were hiding something. if Caylee doesn't show up soon, you might want to send a copy of that post to baez, IMO he will probably need the help!

Lol! Well first of all if Caylee is alive, ipso facto Casey is innocent of murder!(at least of her daughter)
Second, my post DOES NOT consist of reasons why I believe Casey is innocent. The whole post is a cautionary essay on why people should not presume guilt. I was pleading with people to withhold judgement for the time being as things are not always as they seem and I gave examples of that very thing.

Presumption of innocence is not a foreign concept, it is as All American as apple pie. If I am wrong I will not be ashamed of doing my duty as a citizen and as a fellow human being by refusing to join in the vitriol. If I am wrong I have not done anything wrong. If I am wrong I have hurt nothing and no one.

christine2448 · Sep 12, 2008

suspicious mind said:
hey, I have aquestion. How would you all feel about a seperate thread for casey supporters. B/C I am of the opinion just b/c you believe Caylee is alive, doesn't mean you support KC. I could be wrong, it's happened before.

If you think it's good topic and peeps will discuss with you, sure...make sure there isn't one somewhere relating first on the forum, it's pages long w/topics.

JustInCase · Sep 12, 2008

suspicious mind said:
hey, I have aquestion. How would you all feel about a seperate thread for casey supporters. B/C I am of the opinion just b/c you believe Caylee is alive, doesn't mean you support KC. I could be wrong, it's happened before.

NO ONE here has said we support Casey! NOT ONE! What we have done is seek every angle and declined to take part in the disparage of Casey and her family on threads that find this case laughable

Because we seek other angles and have hope ... that makes us a target? Because we explore other aspects and don't assume that Casey is the only one being mendacious in this case ... you expect explicit WE ask ... then WE deliver, kind of answers?

We are merely on a quest .... putting into practice what pops up in our inquistive minds ... trying to answer the controversial questions, that LE themselves should have at the very least ... ASKED! YET they didn't.

This thread is not about ... Casey is telling the truth.

It's more about having a standpoint ... no matter how beveled.

There is always the possibilty one might be able to find this SWEET child ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!! Gracefully hoping!

Now ... what angle might you take in hopes of finding Caylee?

suspicious mind · Sep 12, 2008

JustInCase said:
NO ONE here has said we support Casey! NOT ONE! What we have done is seek every angle and declined to take part in the disparage of Casey and her family on threads.

Because we seek other angles and have hope ... that makes us a target? Because we explore other aspects and don't assume that Casey is the only one being mendacious in this case ... you expect explicit I ask/you deliver answers?

We are merely on a quest .... practicing that what pops up in our inquistive minds ... trying to answer the controversial questions, that LE themselves should have at the very least ... ASKED! And they didn't.

This thread is not about ... Casey is telling the truth, but about any standpoint no matter how beveled ... one might be able to . find this SWEET child ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!

Now ... what angle might you take in hopes of finding Caylee?

I hope u feel better, might wantto take a breather!

jeannebreault · Sep 12, 2008

JustInCase said:
There a couple of circumstantial dates I can come up with, that she is not on line and has not been on the phone.

It of course would be more helpful if we had her incoming calls, [which for some unkown reason we don't] on the dates LE released. We only have the "finger pointing" outgoing calls.

I feel there was at least one or two obvious incoming calls ... since she did check her VM!

Sorry for those of you who don't seem understand that we've been given ... fed ... what easily establishes guilt in this case.

I understand that Casey's statements and behavior stand alone, however, if I was on jury that wouldn't do it for me...

I'm not exluding, the media's DNA leaks, and the use of "likely to" "implies" and "leads us to believe" by LE either ...

I'm simply taking in ALL angles ... If that hurts your "feelers" and you want to argue with me and say malicious things even when I post on other threads, that's your perogative.

You, who are non-believers, that Caylee may be alive, want to come and question us to point you [somehow] in the right direction, an A-symetrical direction. There is no direction, we are not near sighted, nor far sighted, we are just seeking every geometrical angle that we can. We WILL continue to seek those angles with or without your support.

The name of this thread is not "Prove Casey is telling the truth!" NO one has said or implied that Casye is telling the truth. But that goes without saying, why should everyone else's word be taken at face value? Because they said it, that makes their statements true?

Their are many angles that simply cannot be posted here on WS's due to TOS. Angles that just cannot and will not be shared here. Questions that cannot be answered ... Things just aren't always that black and white.

I love your posts...especially this one!

There is so much more than meets the eye (or ear)!

I think Caylee might be alive because we haven't been given official evidence that she's dead!

My motto right now is: Stay Tuned!

This thread is for the posters that believe Caylee is still alive # 3

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