2011.05.16 -War Room map

[freefallzzzz]

Another thought.... would be the numbers shown on the notebooks in the War Room, do they relate to that?

As they have found so many items during searches and SAR's have to fill out "search completed forms" or whatever you call them when they are done with a section/grid,.... wouldn't those go in a notebook?

 

[scandi]

Many thanks to Chili Fries for this map! It deserves it's own thread! What can we glean from this map?

Yes, Thanks Chili Fries for those Eagle Eyes. :rocker:

TH placed herself driving on Hwy #30 that morning and was also seen by that witness on the Hwy. The RUMOR that might not be one since it looks like there was a ping from SI, happened at 11am when supposedly a report was phoned into LE. We have no way to check that out as dispatched calls aren't trackable here like they are in Europe. LE also placed TH {or their truck} at 10:30am at Skyline and Germantown Rd. I think it is entirely possible she was on SI that morning, IMO.

 

[Peliman]

Looks to me the center of the rings is located at. Believe it or not google earth has street view pics of this dirt road. NW Rentenaar rd.

N 45.7574
W 122.78804

No idea what the circles with call numbers mean. The circles are imposed on a topographical map. The circles would not normally appear on the original map, they were drawn/placed there.

 

[freefallzzzz]

Looks to me the center of the rings is located at. Believe it or not google earth has street view pics of this dirt road. NW Rentenaar rd.

N 45.7574
W 122.78804

No idea what the circles with call numbers mean. The circles are imposed on a topographical map. The circles would not normally appear on the original map, they were drawn/placed there.

Yes, you are right. After that the road curves and it's not graded like the straight part of the road. I'm not sure how often that road is open, obviously it was for the google car.


Side note to all that are looking at streetviews in our area...
Just remember, that on those side roads, that are out of the way, they are OLD streetview google maps. I've seen so many searched areas on google streetview that look so different than they looked this summer in real life due to the streetview being such old images. (doesn't make sense to have mr/ms google car driver go down roads that are not traveled regularly..) =)

Even the road I live on has not been updated since 2007...

 

[Peliman]

Yes, you are right. After that the road curves and it's not graded like the straight part of the road. I'm not sure how often that road is open, obviously it was for the google car.


Side note to all that are looking at streetviews in our area...
Just remember, that on those side roads, that are out of the way, they are OLD streetview google maps. I've seen so many searched areas on google streetview that look so different than they looked this summer in real life due to the streetview being such old images. (doesn't make sense to have mr/ms google car driver go down roads that are not traveled regularly..) =)

Even the road I live on has not been updated since 2007...

Hmm streetview ends at the curve in the road. Maps may have been updated, I'm showing an image date of Aug. 15, 2010

 

[freefallzzzz]

Hmm streetview ends at the curve in the road. Maps may have been updated, I'm showing an image date of Aug. 15, 2010

I can't see the date? But I believe you. =)
I was out there in Oct/Nov 2010.. It would look a bit diff than in August..


I am surprised, my street (which is well traveled) isn't updated on google (the main road that my street feeds onto is) but this basically obscure road is updated.. interesting.. =)

I've never understood when/why they update maps, I just know that in some areas they are WAY out of date =)
I'd love to know how you find out the date if that doesn't throw the thread off topic =)

 

[scandi]

I wouldn't discount that yet.. I wish I could see more maps with those rings to see if they are just in locations (dead end roads, parking lots, etc) or what..

Could be a ping..??

My immediate thought was they look like rings of sound. Could that be construed as the sound of a ping?

 

[bessie]

I think it's a SAR map. Just before we see the image of the map, the reporter says, "Sgt. Goldberg is part of the SAR team, and this is their room". (Not her exact quote, but close) So, I did a little googling. Range rings are used in current topgraphy software with SAR applications.

Here's one I did with a free online software at this site. (Thanks to Peliman for the coordinates.)

http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/calculators

Here's an article from another site that explains how range rings are used in SAR maps.

http://maptech.mytopo.com/land/searchandrescue/docs/tnt.pdf

I don't know what the numbers mean, but I would think they are designated points within the search range.

 

[loves2bmom]

I think it's a SAR map. Just before we see the image of the map, the reporter says, "Sgt. Goldberg is part of the SAR team, and this is their room". (Not her exact quote, but close) So, I did a little googling. Range rings are used in current topgraphy software with SAR applications.

Here's one I did with a free online software at this site. (Thanks to Peliman for the coordinates.)

http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/calculators

Here's an article from another site that explains how range rings are used in SAR maps.

http://maptech.mytopo.com/land/searchandrescue/docs/tnt.pdf

I don't know what the numbers mean, but I would think they are designated points within the search range.

Thanks for the link. Great info. My question would be, if it's a SAR map, what led them to that exact spot? A circle around the school would make sense. A circle around the Horman house would make sense. But a circle in the middle of Sauvie Island? Something had to point them there. Pings is a logical explanation. The only other thing I can think of is an email or chat room correspondance linking that area and like Freefallzzzz said, it was near a parking lot so an easy starting point. Just rambling this morning....

Thanks again for the SAR link.

 

[overtherainbow]

Hi all... I really know nothing about SAR and pings (disclaimer) but I tend to lean toward this being a ping just because they showed SAR maps with overlays indicating areas searched and the type of search teams used in this segment as well. If it is solely a SAR map it was significant enough to warrant its own map.

So very glad to see that LE is still working to find Kyron!

 

[Peliman]

I can't see the date? But I believe you. =)
I was out there in Oct/Nov 2010.. It would look a bit diff than in August..


I am surprised, my street (which is well traveled) isn't updated on google (the main road that my street feeds onto is) but this basically obscure road is updated.. interesting.. =)

I've never understood when/why they update maps, I just know that in some areas they are WAY out of date =)
I'd love to know how you find out the date if that doesn't throw the thread off topic =)

Sorry, fell asleep last night. I'm surprised myself because almost every google earth map I've seen is a couple years dated. A couple years dated is usually what current GPS runs in GPS units.

I suspect the newer map images of Sauvie are the result of a request by LE to use the latest updated maps of the area to assist LE in searching. The date of images is displayed at the bottom of google earth for the area one is looking at. Other information at the bottom of Google earth is latitude, longitude and elevation. It's a great mapping tool but doesn't do topographical maps.

 

[Oriah]

Thanks for the link. Great info. My question would be, if it's a SAR map, what led them to that exact spot? A circle around the school would make sense. A circle around the Horman house would make sense. But a circle in the middle of Sauvie Island? Something had to point them there. Pings is a logical explanation. The only other thing I can think of is an email or chat room correspondance linking that area and like Freefallzzzz said, it was near a parking lot so an easy starting point. Just rambling this morning....

Thanks again for the SAR link.

I only have a couple of minutes at the moment, but thought I'd pop in to see if I could help. Looks like ya'll already figured this out, but just to clarify: that is indeed a SAR map- probably. It could also be a mapping program used for other purposes but in this instance, seems likely. SAR mapping programs have a very wide range of capabilities, but most employ the same basics; which is to try and identify what is know as a POD (please forgive me if ya'll already know these things- I am just jumping in here.)
A POD is A Probability of Detection (very basically): http://www.eri-online.com/uploads/TheBriefing-PODConnection.pdf

Then typically software becomes involved (as you can see from the above map.) There are many different types of SAR software available; for example, we typically use DXMapGIS http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=10701&minisite=10020, but not always.

Regarding satellite updating (and why certain areas are updated at different times, you can go here:
http://neo.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/Search.html
and it will bring up options to be searched when linked to your mapping program. You can also search for current updates.

Then these are coordinated with your area of highest POD (or sometimes lowest, if you're 'flying blind'...) and hopefully you get a maximized target area.

Now as to WHY LE may have picked a specific area- that depends on a lot of things, including things like cell pings, eyewitnesses, etc.
Then you will note shaded areas on your mapping system- those are the areas that your software will denote with highest POD based on terrain, weather, distance traveled, bodies of water, hazards, etc. From there, you can grid search out.

Hope this helps make some sense- I know it is kind of technical. :waitasec:

 

[Chili Fries]

Thanks for all the SAR info. Does seem to be a very targeted area, something led them there. But we don't know if this was just a small part of a larger search area, is that right Oriah?

 

[nursebeeme]

If it were military time, it would mean near midnight. 11:18 in the a.m. is simply 11:18.

1100 is 11 am
2300 is 11pm
0000 or 2400 is midnight

hope that helps

 

[matou]

Here is the end/gated part of Rentenaar Rd. I am standing up on the berm/levee shooting the camera behind the gate looking down Rentenaar Rd which then goes straight down to Reeder Rd.
You can see vehicles parked in the parking lot, this is a popular place to come look at wildlife.


There is a road that goes beyond the gate but on the map in the first post of this thread, that circle is centered at the gate area parking lot (public).

Searchers were seen by me off this road (there are some dirt roads that go off Rentenaar Rd where they were seen) and search tape was seen w/grids marked right near the gate at the end of Rentenaar off into a field.

If you are in picture above (click to make bigger) grid search tape was seen to left and on the "open" side of the road just before the parking lot and searchers were seen by me down to the right and down the road closer to Reeder Rd.

I don't think this area is of interest anymore, my guess from being out there is IF it was a cell ping it was from the parking lot - public - OR this was just a location they picked due to the parking lot at the end of the road and it fans out so many feet in each direction..

I have one photobucket album link below just of Rentenaar Rd and some other pictures of searchers in one of my other albums I'll have to dig them up if anybody wants.

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/10 03 2010 search kyron off renteaar rd/

Thank freefallz! It's interesting that this is a small parking area and seems so isolated and you can probably see other cars coming from far away. This area could be a perfect place to move a person from one car to another, IMO. Also noticed from your pics that the big tree at the end of Rentenaar Road is gone now. Is that a port-a-potty at the parking area?

xo matou

 

[Oriah]

Thanks for all the SAR info. Does seem to be a very targeted area, something led them there. But we don't know if this was just a small part of a larger search area, is that right Oriah?

That's correct, Chili Fries. And sometimes what appears to be a 'smallish' targeted area is much more challenging than it looks on a map. Satellite imagery will bring up other challenges, such as vegetation, weather, fire activty, water levels, etc which can make even small very pinpointed areas difficult to work.

 

[Oriah]

1100 is 11 am
2300 is 11pm
0000 or 2400 is midnight

hope that helps

Or it's "what the he** time zone are you in again, honey?? It's 1800 hrs here"" lol

(Totally O/T, but couldn't help it, nurse. )

 

[gwenabob]

1100 is 11 am
2300 is 11pm
0000 or 2400 is midnight

hope that helps

I think that is what I said. Isn't it?

 

[freefallzzzz]

Thank freefallz! It's interesting that this is a small parking area and seems so isolated and you can probably see other cars coming from far away. This area could be a perfect place to move a person from one car to another, IMO. Also noticed from your pics that the big tree at the end of Rentenaar Road is gone now. Is that a port-a-potty at the parking area?

xo matou

Actually the parking lot area seems "wide open" but yes driving down the road, there are little roads that branch off Rentenaar Rd that you can go down.
That is where I actually saw searchers.
One weekend they had horses, another weekend they were on foot ( Just what I saw, I'm sure there was a lot more)


Here I was standing behind the gate looking looking down Rentenaar Rd which comes out on the paved Reeder Rd.
If you click on it you can see searchers coming out of one of the side roads..


Here is a picture of one of the roads that branches off Rentenaar Rd, where searchers were seen.
Gives you an idea of the thick brush and when you are back on THIS road yes it is secluded.


Yes that is a port-a-potty, I even took a picture of the maintenance sticker inside the door, with the date written in of 6/4. I talked to a LEO on the island (not directly related to the searches) about the port-a-pottys, he said that yes that all has been checked out and they probably knew more about them than they ever wanted to know =)

 

[pdx]

gwenabob, your photos reminded me of <scratch scratch> something else. I found out last night why the mosquitoes were SO HIDEOUSLY BAD last year. Apparently a water control device on Government Island malfunctioned, creating the city's hugest wetland swamp for a significant period of time.. trap collections went from an average 200-300 to +8000. Mosquitoes! bah.

Side note to all that are looking at streetviews in our area...
Just remember, that on those side roads, that are out of the way, they are OLD streetview google maps. I've seen so many searched areas on google streetview that look so different than they looked this summer in real life due to the streetview being such old images. (doesn't make sense to have mr/ms google car driver go down roads that are not traveled regularly..) =)

Even the road I live on has not been updated since 2007...

Another point well worth noting about google maps and SI in particular... the address numbers are just flat wrong. Use address data from google with caution because things in reality are not necessarily where google maps tells you they are. I experienced this several times last summer.

Also noticed from your pics that the big tree at the end of Rentenaar Road is gone now. Is that a port-a-potty at the parking area?

I guess ff just answered this for me ... I was going to ask, is this the portapot that had the special message inside of it? I think so.

Did we ever time the drive from the bridge to Rentanner? It's got to be a good 30 minutes, yeah? Maybe more like 20? I'm just not sure.