Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

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Emma Peel said:
Jerry Holeman Interview 2018 WRTV Indianapolis
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I'd posted this link to the 2018 TV interview earlier - a few page back - link to a Holeman interview. I meant to timestamp it to save everyone some time. I'll do that now and also provide a quote from Holeman acknowledging early investigation "chaos".

Timestamp: Beginning through 1:19 minutes. BBM

"It (the murder) took awhile to set in. Then it was just total chaos. The investigation, with all the help we got, it was just total chaos. And we were able to get that down to controlled chaos. And then I joke around about becoming an oiled machine. And now I think it's a well-oiled machine where I think its very manageable and we're making a lot of progress."
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I found this relevant as Holeman confirms the first months of the investigation were total chaos.

IMO, 7-some years later, we're seeing the results of that early "total chaos".

JMHO
 

FrostedGlass said:
With no cameras in the courtroom and no docs to read, who knows what goes on behind closed doors?
We can be like ostriches with our heads in the sand, living happily ever after whatever verdict is reached.
Life is certainly easier that way. IMO
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Is it possible some are keeping their heads in the sand concerning the potential guilt of the defendant?
 
katydid23 said:
Is it possible some are keeping their heads in the sand concerning the potential guilt of the defendant?
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I doubt it. Even that guy at JC's bar that had nothing but nice things to say about RA didn't seem like he had any kind of feeling about the arrest other than surprise. Maybe wife & lawyers? Certainly no one I've seen here or IRL has expressed anything resembling allegiance, let alone blind allegiance, to some guy they never met that's accused of the most evil things imaginable.
 
katydid23 said:
Is it possible some are keeping their heads in the sand concerning the potential guilt of the defendant?
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Good question! I often wonder if I'm one of those people. It would be much easier to believe he's guilty. Most of us probably did think so in the beginning.

In every motion the P files, I hope to find something in it that turns my thinking around but there's never anything there that's straightforward and solid.

Both of RA's sets of attys have seen the discovery.
They have stated publicly they believe he's innocent.
That's a hard point for me to argue.
 
FrostedGlass said:
Good question! I often wonder if I'm one of those people. It would be much easier to believe he's guilty. Most of us probably did think so in the beginning.

In every motion the P files, I hope to find something in it that turns my thinking around but there's never anything there that's straightforward and solid.

Both of RA's sets of attys have seen the discovery.
They have stated publicly they believe he's innocent.
That's a hard point for me to argue.
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i don’t place any stock on that these days.

iris Eytan says Barry Morphew is innocent as well. ditto in McStay.
 
FrostedGlass said:
Good question! I often wonder if I'm one of those people. It would be much easier to believe he's guilty. Most of us probably did think so in the beginning.
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Some people have what they need to convict RA .
Some people haven't got what they need yet.
Soon we'll know; either they have the goods or they don't.
Or they erased them
 
layer said:
I doubt it. Even that guy at JC's bar that had nothing but nice things to say about RA didn't seem like he had any kind of feeling about the arrest other than surprise. Maybe wife & lawyers? Certainly no one I've seen here or IRL has expressed anything resembling allegiance, let alone blind allegiance, to some guy they never met that's accused of the most evil things imaginable.
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Most people mistake "pro Constitutional rights" for "pro Richard Allen." And I agree with Frosted Glass.....it would be easier to be on the "RA is guilty! He confessed!" train. Much easier! It doesn't require a deep dive.

I did not think he was guilty at first, though. I've changed my opinion to think there's a high likelihood he's involved in some way. But definitely not a lone wolf. And probably not even the actual murderer.

IMO, MOO
 
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FrostedGlass said:
Good question! I often wonder if I'm one of those people. It would be much easier to believe he's guilty. Most of us probably did think so in the beginning.

In every motion the P files, I hope to find something in it that turns my thinking around but there's never anything there that's straightforward and solid.

Both of RA's sets of attys have seen the discovery.
They have stated publicly they believe he's innocent.
That's a hard point for me to argue.
Click to expand...

And let's not forget about Lebrato's face and demeanor when talking about how he thinks RA is innocent also.
 
WildHuncher said:
Bridge Guy Number The Other hid from everyone else, did the murders, planted the bullet, discarded his outer jacket, and kidnapped the Three Extra Girls.

It all ties together except for the goat.
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It was a meat goat, so…

Really I haven’t watched the animation and don’t know about this BG-other. Is it Flannel Shirt Guy (FSG)?
 
layer said:
Some people have what they need to convict RA .
Some people haven't got what they need yet.
Soon we'll know; either they have the goods or they don't.
Or they erased them
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And at least one of us are waiting to see the evidence at the trial before we decide. Until his confessions I thought it was a very weak case. But until I hear the confessions I won’t be able to decide if they are real or the result of 6 months of solitary confinement with his guards and companions (the prisoners who watch him) telling him what a he is for killing the girls, how everyone hates him, how’s he’s never going to see his family or friends again except at the trial or through plexiglass.
 
Pyrite said:
And at least one of us are waiting to see the evidence at the trial before we decide. Until his confessions I thought it was a very weak case. But until I hear the confessions I won’t be able to decide if they are real or the result of 6 months of solitary confinement with his guards and companions (the prisoners who watch him) telling him what a he is for killing the girls, how everyone hates him, how’s he’s never going to see his family or friends again except at the trial or through plexiglass.
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Make it two. Those are my thoughts, almost verbatim <modsnip: Don't be rude>
 
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mrjitty said:
But in these cases I feel it's simply a tactic. They don't have evidence clearing their clients. Guilt or Innocence is actually something they don't know
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This confuses me. Is there any reason (other than delayed discovery) that the defense doesn't know everything the prosecution knows? If the state has proof positive that RA is the killer, wouldn't they know he's guilty?
 
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

... I never gave much thought to defense attys until I learned of the uphill battle attorney Elliot Slosar fought to free innocent Andrew Royer.
I developed a deep respect for the job they do.

Imo B&R believe in RA's innocence and it's not just a tactic. I'm pretty sure they are aware of the hatred toward them promoted on the net. Undoubtedly their families and their clients are disgusted and hurt at the horrible comments made.

If I ever need a defense attorney, I hope mine will fight as hard for me as Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin are fighting for Richard Allen.
 
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FrostedGlass said:
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

... I never gave much thought to defense attys until I learned of the uphill battle attorney Elliot Slosar fought to free innocent Andrew Royer.
I developed a deep respect for the job they do.

Imo B&R believe in RA's innocence and it's not just a tactic. I'm pretty sure they are aware of the hatred toward them promoted on the net. Undoubtedly their families and their clients are disgusted and hurt at the horrible comments made.

If I ever need a defense attorney, I hope mine will fight as hard for me as Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin are fighting for Richard Allen.
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Considering the charges against him you would hope they would have compassion towards the families involved and understand where people are coming from. Especially when the man in question has confessed multiple times to this horrific crime.

He has not shoplifted here , he has been accused of killing two children hence why the subject is so emotive for people.

Moo
 
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Salah11 said:
Considering the charges against him you would hope they would have compassion towards the families involved and understand where people are coming from. Especially when the man in question has confessed multiple times to this horrific crime.

He has not shoplifted here , he has been accused of killing two children hence why the subject is so emotive for people.

Moo
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I'm sure they have compassion for the families but their job is to defend RA to the best of their ability. It's hard to understand sometimes, I know. But that's the way our system works.

Unfortunately some families are put in the position of having to sit on both sides of the court at some point. So the loathed defense attorney in one case becomes the staunch defender in another. I'm certain that's tough.

BTW, the families aren't the ones who are saying horrible things, as far as I know.
 
FrostedGlass said:
I'm sure they have compassion for the families but their job is to defend RA to the best of their ability. It's hard to understand sometimes, I know. But that's the way our system works.

Unfortunately some families are put in the position of having to sit on both sides of the court at some point. So the loathed defense attorney in one case becomes the staunch defender in another. I'm certain that's tough.

BTW, the families aren't the ones who are saying horrible things, as far as I know.
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You are right, Frosted. BP made a compassionate and emotional post in 2022. It’s contained in this article.

www.wrtv.com

'I'm just confused': Libby's grandmother says seeing Richard Allen for the first time in court was emotional

Seeing the man arrested in the murders of Libby and Abby for the first time came with emotions Becky Patty says she wasn't sure how to feel.
www.wrtv.com www.wrtv.com
 
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