Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #183

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes I guess I misinterpreted and can't edit! So under the shoe.

Agreed. Furthermore I think any court of appeals will uphold the Judges ruling. So they can appeal away.
Maybe.

This case isn't the first where the Supreme Court ruled against her. They did so in this case too. She allowed discovery in at the last minute then denied a continuance the D asked for. I believe the case ended up being dismissed, which is sad because it was a child molest case.
(excerpt)
However, because the court abused its discretion when it denied Ramirez’s continuance request, we reverse and remand for a new trial.
 
I don't think a speedy trial request means they compromise the right to a fair trial at all. I would think a defense attorney requesting a speedy trial (I believe that means within 70 days of the request date) means the defense is READY for trial. The judge isn't there to interprte weather they are or are not ready, she just set the date for the trial which she allotted 3 weeks for. She notes that she doesn't know what the defense is going to be or how long they will need. I think if the defense needed more time they would have said that at some point after the trial dates were set and 3 weeks was allotted for it. If they see that they need more time than that, why would they not say something right away or even a week or so after that? The judge can't read their minds and they haven't said anything so she is letting both sides know that this is the time we have so have witnesses ready, no games with needing a witness to come next week because they can't get there and so on.

I've watched trials where days were cut short due to witness scheduling issues from both sides. This jury is sequestered so there is no cutting short on days and dragging the trial out. This is their notice that isn't going to happen. That is what I took from the letter. I think maybe she expected someone to have a concern with the time frame and because nobody did she wrote t

Yes.
I think it’s kinda shocking that for all these weeks after they were granted a speedy the defense never noticed or questioned any aspect of its schedule.
This is on them.
 
I'm not sure I ever heard of setting time limits on murder trials. Is that normal?
Based on the Indiana ones I've followed, it seems pretty normal. Usually they have pretrial conferences, final pretrial conferences, atty conferences so they all know where they stand.

This one is a bit unique in that the jury will be sequestered for the duration. Hotel rooms, meals, entertainment, transportation, etc must be considered. mOO
 
I'm going to leave a link to a good research paper on use of third party responsibility (SODDI), but with a twist. It directly addresses the issue we have in this case:

 
@AugustWest

If a client tells their attorney that they are guilty, does that attorney have to go forward with a guilty plea or are they allowed to advise their client that they should move forward with a not guilty plea?
@Ravenmoon

If a client tells an attorney they are guilty, then the attorney can no longer represent the client, as the attorney would not be able to be truthful with the court. The accused would need to find another attorney. See:

 
If a client tells their attorney that they are guilty, does that attorney have to go forward with a guilty plea or are they allowed to advise their client that they should move forward with a not guilty plea?
For clarification, does the client wish to plead guilty, or are they asking the lawyer to (in effect) help them get away with it? Or does it matter?
I know next to nothing, but I bet there are very few defense attorneys that would take pride in getting a guilty man off. Likewise, I bet there are very few prosecutors that would take pride in getting an innocent man convicted.
I'm probably naive
 
For clarification, does the client wish to plead guilty, or are they asking the lawyer to (in effect) help them get away with it? Or does it matter?
I know next to nothing, but I bet there are very few defense attorneys that would take pride in getting a guilty man off. Likewise, I bet there are very few prosecutors that would take pride in getting an innocent man convicted.
I'm probably naive
Undoubtedly, there are attorneys who break the rule.
 
Get out of my head!!!!! :eek:
I have wondered about that forever.
I've thought this before! That it may have been that someone at the scene deleted things off her phone, and it was recovered via the cloud or some other way (eg: if she sent to a friend, they may have got it from a friend who still had it on their device).
 
I wonder if Libby or Abby put the phone in the shoe as one laid there dying.

Let’s not forget Libby had the foresight to record RA so she would of know the phone was important.

Why would RA leave the phone behind if he knew what was on it and placing it in the shoe would be weird imo.
With the injuries described in the FM released by the Defense (don't ask me which FM)... I doubt highly that AW was going to have the ability / strength / foresight to even think about getting / moving / hiding the phone. I'm not elaborating on the injuries suggested by the FM out of respect for the loved ones of AW and of our members who may not want to read about them.
 
I've long thought that this would never make it to trial and RA, if guilty, would eventually plead out. With the trial apparently imminent, what are the odds he ends up making a plea within the next two (?) weeks. Is it too late to be offered a plea? What would that look like?
 
Perhaps we're being punked about pings.

Perhaps these were events internally generated that awakened the phone. Incoming calls/texts. Scheduled updates.

A stretch to describe that as the phone being somehow in transit. Phone may have had its reasons for trying to ping off one tower or another.

The D is trying to delay the time of death to a point in time where RA has a locked alibi

But I suspect the actual data will show that, at a point that afternoon, Libby's phone didn't move but did continue communicating with towers, none of which was generated by Libby herself. And the cessation of human driven contact on her phone indicates TOD, close to 2:13 and nowhere near 5 pm on 2/13 or 4 am on 2/14.

Think about what happens to one's phone when left on a charger overnight. It doesn't move but apps are updated. Emails and messages are received. Busy phone, no one in possession of it.

It's only the Defense trying to manipulate the timeline.

JMO

"Pings" in this context are not incoming calls/texts, scheduled updates, nor are they internally generated events that awakened the phone.

"Pings" in this context refers to a signal sent by a cellular provider for the purpose of trying to locate a specific phone, initiated after law enforcement contacts a cellular provider (AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, Verizon) and asks that provider to help find that given phone's location.

The provider then sends out a signal from its tower(s) with the express purpose and intention to try to locate that phone's location. Based on different techniques and data (like triangulation and time-on-arrival), the cellular provider can then infer certain information about that phone's present location and provide that information to Law Enforcement.

These services from cellular providers intended to assist Law Enforcement are called "Location Based Services".

That is what is being referred to when this motion discusses "pings". This is not just texts and missed calls.

This process is initiated at the behest of law enforcement, and conducted specifically by the network carrier.

les.jpg

The table above is from the FBI's Cellular Analysis Survey Team (CAST) unclassified Cellular Analysis & Geo-Location Field Resource Guide.

In this instance, the provider LE contacted was AT&T.

From that same Field Resource Guide:

"AT&T — Mobile Locate: Triangulated coordinates of device based on Timing Advance or Time on Arrival (TOA) and suspected radius e mailed every 15 30 min. Use event based mobile locate."

Source — FBI's Cellular Analysis Survey Team (CAST) unclassified Cellular Analysis & Geo-Location Field Resource Guide
Link to Source — Document Detail

That's why the motion filed today specifically mentioned the 15 minute interval of these "pings".

If they were incoming calls/text, scheduled updates, or internally generated events, these would not correspond to a 15 minute interval. Instead, if what you're suggesting is true, these events would be more clustered together in their timing, and not spread out evenly across 15 minute intervals.

So these are not just random text messages. These are not just random calls. These are not just random app updates. This is not a cellphone only weakly connecting to a tower with a flakey connection strength.

The filing today suggests the phone was consistently "pinged" by the provider in 15 minute intervals, until for some reason, the provider and law enforcement no longer received any information back from these "pings". This missing gap in the location-based service data suggests that the phone was either 1) physically at a location far beyond the reach of the provider's location based service signal, or 2) the phone was powered off, then much later powered back on.

In either event, it blows up the State's timeline.
 
I've long thought that this would never make it to trial and RA, if guilty, would eventually plead out. With the trial apparently imminent, what are the odds he ends up making a plea within the next two (?) weeks. Is it too late to be offered a plea? What would that look like?
I only know one time when I was a juror we went to lunch after the opening arguments and when we came back the trial was over. That wasn't in Indiana, though
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
134
Guests online
2,400
Total visitors
2,534

Forum statistics

Threads
594,304
Messages
18,002,411
Members
229,362
Latest member
undefined.value
Back
Top