Alaska Airlines flight makes emergency landing after window blows out

[nerosleuth]

Why can't you go further in detail about this? Not in MSM?

According to this article:

The nation’s top accident investigator says warning lights were triggered on three flights, including each of the two days before the brand-new Boeing 737 Max 9 suffered a terrifying fuselage blowout Friday night.

Jennifer Homendy, chair of the National Transportation Safety Board, said maintenance crews checked the plane and cleared it to fly — but the airline decided not to use it for the long route to Hawaii over water so that it “could return very quickly to an airport” if the warning light reappeared.

Alaska Airlines’ decision not to ground Boeing jet despite warning signs comes under scrutiny

Alaska Airlines' decision not to ground Boeing jet despite warning signs comes under scrutiny

The decision by Alaska Airlines to stop flying one of its planes due to warnings — yet keep flying it over land — is raising questions.

apnews.com

I do wonder if the mechanics couldn't determine what was wrong with the airplane from the warning lights, simply just push reset to clear the warnings, and said the airplane was OK to fly.

 

[LinasK]

On Flight 1282, no one was in the seat directly next to the blowout, but a 15-year-old was sitting in the window seat directly ahead of the hole as the air rushed out of the passenger cabin. His mother, sitting in the middle seat next to him, described to The Seattle Times seeing her son’s seat twisting backward toward the hole, his seat headrest ripped off and sucked into the void and her son’s arms jerked upward. She held on to her son tightly, hooking her arms beneath his arms and wrapped around his back. It wasn’t until after the flight, she said, that she noticed his clothing had been torn off his upper body. more at link: Alaska Airlines flight at a higher altitude could have been ‘catastrophic’

 

[acutename]

I do wonder if the mechanics couldn't determine what was wrong with the airplane from the warning lights, simply just push reset to clear the warnings, and said the airplane was OK to fly.

the warning lights were about the pressure- maybe in the air, some sensors noted pressure loss around that door area but on the ground it could not be duplicated ?

 

[PrairieWind]

the warning lights were about the pressure- maybe in the air, some sensors noted pressure loss around that door area but on the ground it could not be duplicated ?

From what I have read so far, the pressure warnings were just general in nature, noting that cabin pressure was not being maintained where it was supposed to, but nothing indicating the door plug itself.

 

[mickey2942]

Yes, my husband was a passenger. No one was sitting by the window where the door was.

Wow, glad he is okay! Makes you think twice about sitting in an exit row. I know Alaska flies often to Anchorage and other cities in Alaska and follows the flight path along the coast, many airlines do this, in 737 aircraft. I am not sure why. I used to fly that route, Seattle to Anchorage and back, turn arounds in the summer. And we were in some old, ancient 737s. Maybe they were better, only 6 exits, with one exit over each wing.

 

[ElizB]

From what I have read so far, the pressure warnings were just general in nature, noting that cabin pressure was not being maintained where it was supposed to, but nothing indicating the door plug itself.

I think you are right. That’s why they removed it from ETOPS.

I think they had it scheduled for maintenance. In that situation, I wonder if they would have checked the plug door then?

 

[Charlot123]

Q&A: Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 passengers likely would have died if blowout occurred above 40,000 feet, says physicist

If the Alaska Airlines plane that lost a portion of its fuselage while ascending after takeoff Friday had been flying at normal cruising altitude, its passengers and crew would probably have died from the depressurization event, according to a Northeastern expert.

phys.org

Here is the comment what could have happened at a higher altitude.

I am always thinking of the pilots. I feel very sorry for them, because we the passengers so much depend on them, and it must have been a huge, huge shock and stress. They - managed!

Honestly? I don't think much of the student who sues the Alaska and Boeing, his deal but in the scope of the country, it won't help with safety. It won't help us the next time we fly. We are asking for safety, whatever it takes. Likewise, suing Alaska takes money from the company and decreases the safety.

But I think that both Alaska and Boeing, as well as the passengers themselves, should make some monetary prizes to the crew and to the ATCs who worked that day. Putting myself in these people's
shoes, god forbid...I'd probably not meddle with but simply buy vouchers from Amazon and write something on all postcards, something good that the people might write, and send to them. Suing for money is not always good karma. Thanking the people who saved you - is.

And I also think of what depressurization at high altitude means for the pilots cabin...

 

[Charlot123]

Here we go.... more to come !

Passenger plans to sue Boeing, Alaska over blown out door incident

PORTLAND Ore. -- It has been less than a week since the Alaska airlines flight 1282 incident.Already, there is at least one lawsuit looming.An attorney in Seatt

katu.com

While I feel very sorry for all passengers, they are alive. It is hard to support lawsuits that would end up in cutting more costs, be it Boeing, Alaska or the airport. I am incredibly happy that all survived. But next time I fly, I just need better safety. I think more transparency from all involved parties won't hurt, because transparency usually involves changes. But lawsuits usually decrease transparency.

Hugs to all Oregonians! Your family - and all. ))

 

[PrairieWind]

Boeing's design of a part that blew off a jetliner is being investigated by the federal government

The FAA said Thursday that the investigation is focusing on door plugs like the one that came off an Alaska Airlines Boeing jetliner over Oregon.

www.kgw.com

"Federal officials are investigating whether Boeing failed to make sure a panel that blew off a jetliner in midflight last week was properly designed and safe to use.
The Federal Aviation Administration said Thursday that the investigation is focusing on plugs used to fill spots for extra exits when those doors are not required on Boeing 737 Max 9 jetliners."

This really interests me. This was a plug door. So it seems to me that it shouldn't even be possible for it to blow out like this.

 

[mmeynstyn]

I do wonder if the mechanics couldn't determine what was wrong with the airplane from the warning lights, simply just push reset to clear the warnings, and said the airplane was OK to fly.

I suspect you are right. It was a "deactivated" door. So, from the passenger cabin, the mechanic most likely would not even know there was a door behind the sidewall panel. Unless, of course, they read about the configuration in their manuals.

 

[mmeynstyn]

This really interests me. This was a plug door. So it seems to me that it shouldn't even be possible for it to blow out like this.

It was a "deactivated" door. Thus, it does not have the same lock/latch mechanism like active plug doors.

 

[PrairieWind]

It was a "deactivated" door. Thus, it does not have the same lock/latch mechanism like active plug doors.

Yes. It is not really a door at all.

 

[LinasK]

Yes. It is not really a door at all.

I fail to understand how it's safe not to be a door. These bolts clearly weren't effective. I'd have kept it as a door, or stopped using this type of plane.

 

[Mirabel091]

I fail to understand how it's safe not to be a door. These bolts clearly weren't effective. I'd have kept it as a door, or stopped using this type of plane.

I think that's the question a lot of people are asking.

As I understand it this model of fuselage always gets manufactured with a hole in this location so airlines can choose the seating configuration later. Then it either gets a proper emergency door fitted, or the "plug", depending on the seating layout. This also means it's possible for an aircraft fitted with a "plug" to have an emergency door fitted later on if more seats are added, e.g. if sold to a different airline.

I suspect Boeing will have thought there is no need to design and fit (and certify!) two separate types of fasteners around the hole when they can just design a plug that fits in the same way as the door. And from that point of view it might seem safer to only have one base door frame structure and one way to attach it.

And to be fair, older 737-900 (not Max) have been using the same door/plug for decades without any incidents or questions being raised, so it seems it is possible for that plug to be installed safely.

But I do wonder if they have been thinking about that the wrong way all along, because a door is supposed to open when needed and the plug is not really supposed to open at all. The history of flight is littered with things that appeared to be designed just fine, right up until there was a problem.

As traumatic as it must have been to be on that flight I'm so thankful that everyone landed safely.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Q&A: Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 passengers likely would have died if blowout occurred above 40,000 feet, says physicist

If the Alaska Airlines plane that lost a portion of its fuselage while ascending after takeoff Friday had been flying at normal cruising altitude, its passengers and crew would probably have died from the depressurization event, according to a Northeastern expert.

phys.org

Here is the comment what could have happened at a higher altitude.

I am always thinking of the pilots. I feel very sorry for them, because we the passengers so much depend on them, and it must have been a huge, huge shock and stress. They - managed!

Honestly? I don't think much of the student who sues the Alaska and Boeing, his deal but in the scope of the country, it won't help with safety. It won't help us the next time we fly. We are asking for safety, whatever it takes. Likewise, suing Alaska takes money from the company and decreases the safety.

But I think that both Alaska and Boeing, as well as the passengers themselves, should make some monetary prizes to the crew and to the ATCs who worked that day. Putting myself in these people's
shoes, god forbid...I'd probably not meddle with but simply buy vouchers from Amazon and write something on all postcards, something good that the people might write, and send to them. Suing for money is not always good karma. Thanking the people who saved you - is.

And I also think of what depressurization at high altitude means for the pilots cabin...

I mean, yes, they should thank the pilots. But monetary prizes should come from Alaska Airlines and the billions they saved by not having an airplane full of passengers die.

As for the lawsuit, my thought is good! These companies have to be held accountable for their decisions. They are literally holding people's lives in their hands and while no one died -- thank goodness -- the emotional trauma some of the passengers walk away with is just as significant as serious physical injuries would be. We can't minimize the psychological toll, anxiety, avoidance behavior, nightmares, and years of therapy ahead just because no one died. They should be compensated for what they went through and Alaska Airlines should be financially liable for not taking sensible measures to prevent a catastrophic event. If they knew there was a problem over ocean, then there is no reason to let the plane fly at all until the maintenance issue is figured out.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

I mean, yes, they should thank the pilots. But monetary prizes should come from Alaska Airlines and the billions they saved by not having an airplane full of passengers die.

As for the lawsuit, my thought is good! These companies have to be held accountable for their decisions. They are literally holding people's lives in their hands and while no one died -- thank goodness -- the emotional trauma some of the passengers walk away with is just as significant as serious physical injuries would be. We can't minimize the psychological toll, anxiety, avoidance behavior, nightmares, and years of therapy ahead just because no one died. They should be compensated for what they went through and Alaska Airlines should be financially liable for not taking sensible measures to prevent a catastrophic event. If they knew there was a problem over ocean, then there is no reason to let the plane fly at all until the maintenance issue is figured out.

MOO

I was thinking of what I personally would do as a passenger. The company, no doubt. But, a pilot's worktime is not that long. I also thought that later, when old, it would be nice for them to read through letters telling about each person they saved.

What I am asking for is more transparency. If pressure sensor was showing malfunction, during three flights, the decision to fly above ground was wrong anyhow, as the article I have linked states. High-altitude depressurization might be catastrophic. I don't understand why they couldn't figure out the source of the problem. Portland is not that far from Everett with Boeing mechanics.

I remember a situation when we were flying from Boston to Seattle. Something was wrong, and finally the mechanics figured out the source of malfunction. Thry borrowed the detail from another Boeing, installed it, then ran it for several hours and then had to cancel the flight because the crew would be up for too long. Alaska has no hub in Boston. So instead of 11 AM, we arrived home at midnight and on Delta. But, safely.
So even if it is a newly emerging issue in an airport "foreign" to your company, there are rules and regulations. How come they were not applied now? Locally? Alaska has five hubs and headquarters in SeaTac. It flies from Payne Field which is in Everett. They are as local as local can be. I love them; many pilots they employ are from the military and geniuses. What didn't work and prompted the company to make a wrong decision?

( I am thinking about the chain of small events happening worldwide. Is it Covid brain factor? I have noticed incredible tiredness. Are we grossly deficient in Vitamin D? Is there something new that's interfering with people's thinking, some system factor that is being missed? You know, I am always about prevention).

 

[Charlot123]

I think that's the question a lot of people are asking.

As I understand it this model of fuselage always gets manufactured with a hole in this location so airlines can choose the seating configuration later. Then it either gets a proper emergency door fitted, or the "plug", depending on the seating layout. This also means it's possible for an aircraft fitted with a "plug" to have an emergency door fitted later on if more seats are added, e.g. if sold to a different airline.

I suspect Boeing will have thought there is no need to design and fit (and certify!) two separate types of fasteners around the hole when they can just design a plug that fits in the same way as the door. And from that point of view it might seem safer to only have one base door frame structure and one way to attach it.

And to be fair, older 737-900 (not Max) have been using the same door/plug for decades without any incidents or questions being raised, so it seems it is possible for that plug to be installed safely.

But I do wonder if they have been thinking about that the wrong way all along, because a door is supposed to open when needed and the plug is not really supposed to open at all. The history of flight is littered with things that appeared to be designed just fine, right up until there was a problem.

As traumatic as it must have been to be on that flight I'm so thankful that everyone landed safely.

Yes. Sounds logical that if the plug can not be fitted correctly, just install the door. I think that the case calls for inspection of that Boeing contractor and their hiring practices. Where were nuts and bolts tightened, why can't it be done correctly? Bad automation or human factor?
On the other hand, the happenstance of no one sitting at that very window, does it mean that there were already suspicions about that plug? All I know that the flights to Seattle are usually overbooked, but that was one from Portland to Ontario. How full are they?

 

[ElizB]

Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 737 MAX 9 Update
Two of the hosts are former NTSB. This covers the safety management system at Boeing. They also look at the door plug and how it works.

 

[Charlot123]

Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 737 MAX 9 Update
Two of the hosts are former NTSB. This covers the safety management system at Boeing. They also look at the door plug and how it works.

Excellent YouTube!
(I hardly watch TV or listen to podcasts because it is such a lengthy way of presenting information as opposed to reading, but these guys really did a good job).

 

[ElizB]

Excellent YouTube!
(I hardly watch TV or listen to podcasts because it is such a lengthy way of presenting information as opposed to reading, but these guys really did a good job).

John Goglia was an airline mechanic prior to joining the NTSB. I can’t remember if it’s this episode or the one before, he discusses losing experienced mechanics during covid. He thinks this will be an issue moving forward.