Crime Scene Animation by Websleuths Member grayhuze

May I ask how we've gone off-topic in this thread? Am I mistaken in believing that no poster who touts themselves as a professional or expert is above skepticism and question?

I have to say that I'm not particularly impressed by an expert who becomes defensive/deflective when disagreed with and boasts the cost of a 3D model that was used, claims to have no knowledge or experience in certain areas that should be considered very important when forming and illustrating their conclusions, and uses "because it just makes sense" as supporting evidence. And essentially accusing the PT and its experts (ones with real credentials and experience in their fields) of perjury IN his videos rather than simply focusing on evidence.

Retrofitting evidence to a conclusion does not science make. Buying an expensive toy does not an expert make. Perhaps the proper term is "data scientist."

I do not believe Grayhuze is presenting the videos as an expert in medical or forensic investigations, just on his opinion regarding what could have happened. Since there is no real information all we can use is what has been presented at court. Opinions are something entirely different. Hope that is clear.
 
That would be the first shooting of a decapitated head in history.

His throat was deeply slashed but Travis wasn't decapitated. And I'm sure plenty of murderer's have shot last, as a coup de grace or simply for 100% certainty that their victim is dead. Or (as was perhaps the case with Arias) to end the nasty noises.
 
I am an expert animator. Whatever someone who hires me to make I will make. These videos I made on my own. I am not sure what your point is. The topic wasn't about the dura mater. I actually wanted to make animations for people using my models.

My point is this. How can you make an accurate animation of something when you don't know anything about the subject you're animating? For example, if you don't know anything about horse anatomy, and I ask you to animate what happens to an unshod hoof under full stress at a gallop...how can you accurately animate that? So if you know little or nothing about how a bullet's trajectory might change as it passes through varying bone and other structures, and you know little or nothing about those structures to begin with, how can you accurately animate that? And if you can't, does that or does that not call into question any of the conclusions you've made based on inaccuracies?
 
I do not believe Grayhuze is presenting the videos as an expert in medical or forensic investigations

He was introduced as a professional crime scene animator in the first post of his very own thread.
 
He was introduced as a professional crime scene animator in the first post of his very own thread.

Yes, that is correct. However he has stated he is not a crime scene expert, medical expert or forensic expert. He just does animations.
 
Its no different than other posters who sleuth or agg posters who question aspects of the crime. Its his opinion. An opinion held by some experts like forensic pathologists who have written about this case. I'm not sure why the open hostility towards the OP for sharing his opinion..
 
And further, it was noted that his animations were merely his interpretation of the evidence; i.e, a professional crime scene animator giving his interpretation of what may have happened.
 
Ive been researching if people can sometimes function even if that shot did enter the space in question and I have concluded that since the bullet was relatively small, that under just the right conditions, i think it is possible he could have gotten up after the shot. Below is just 1 article along these lines. There are many other examples of severe brain injuries where people had mobility after the injury. So IMO, I think its possible in this case that Travis had mobility even if the shot glanced the area in question.

"Valadka, chief of neurosurgery at Houston's Ben Taub General Hospital.....did not work on Hayman's case, but said a few years ago he handled the case of a teenager who recovered from a nail gun wound to the brain."

"Medical and popular literature contains other examples of people who lived through such wounds, and in many cases remained lucid and functioning during their injuries."


http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=116626&page=1

There are certainly plenty of examples of people surviving and functioning with penetrating wounds to the head but, as Dr. Horn explained on the stand, gunshot wounds are entirely different.

Bullets are not inert, like nails, arrows, etc. They are hot, typically tumbling and disseminating energy, and gaseous, creating a large cavity in their path, many times the size of the bullet, which as well as damaging tissue directly, also compresses the brain and generates shock waves throughout the cranial cavity.
 
Its no different than other posters who sleuth or agg posters who question aspects of the crime. Its his opinion. An opinion held by some experts like forensic pathologists who have written about this case. I'm not sure why the open hostility towards the OP for sharing his opinion..

Other posters aren't getting their own welcome threads and being introduced as experts in anything related to crime scenes. If they were, I would have the reasonable expectation that they, too, would be held to a higher degree of scrutiny than an "average" poster. It's not a good feeling when you find out that your computer expert is just a sound guy. Ask the DT.

And as far as I'm concerned, when your "opinion" is that the PT is lying (committing perjury), you'd better have some really solid evidence and knowledge to back it up.
 
Its no different than other posters who sleuth or agg posters who question aspects of the crime. Its his opinion. An opinion held by some experts like forensic pathologists who have written about this case. I'm not sure why the open hostility towards the OP for sharing his opinion..

Well, it wouldn't surprise me if the drawn out circus this case has become hasn't worn on the emotions of those closely following it. I personally have kept it at arm's length when it became pretty clear (imo) what went down. The rest has simply been The Jodi Arias Show, starring Jodi Arias as Jodi Arias. I can't imagine what the Alexander family is going through still unable to put it behind them nearly eight years after TA's murder.
 
View attachment 69578
when I look at images of the skull I can see how the bullet, even while perforating the dura -mater would miss the brain, perhaps traveling through the dura mater and the Subarachnoid space. Imagine a downward angled shot in this image. It breaks through the bone then goes straight down then enters the face again but misses the brain.
something like this.
View attachment 69579

There are two problems with your graphics.

1. They are seriously out of scale.
2. The entry angle and straight direction of travel are purely speculative.

And, regardless of the actual entry angle, it is simply not possible for a bullet to pass through the frontal skull and miss the brain.

Why? Because there's nowhere else for it to go. It most certainly cannot travel through the dura mater, or subarachnoid space. The dura mater is only about 0.3 mm to 0.5 mm thick. The entire meninges (everything between the skull and the brain) are only about 2.5 mm (1/10") thick.
 
That's one of the images I would like to see. I heard that described at trial but haven't seen the image of it. I would like to place a rod from the entry point down through that skull an see how that lines up with the brain. to me it looks like the bullet went under the frontal lobe.
This does not answer my question, so I'll try again. There was an exit hole in the cranial plate - that's on the autopsy report, testified to at trial and a picture of it exhibited at trial. Those are facts. Your answer saying what it looks like to you (somehow going under the frontal lobe) is not supported by that evidence. If it exited that area, it had to enter it, right? So how does it get out of the area that contains the brain without going through the brain?

I saw this video and it's too blurry and I think irresponsible to accept the arrows someone uses as fact on such a blurry image. I would like to see the actual photographs. clearly and then a rod from the entry hold through the hole when the bullet reenters the face.
Understood, and now that you are acknowledging that exit point, we know that the original bullet path is unknown without that information. As Horn said: "It may have been deflected by the bone, since it's passing through the skull. So, it's position in the cheek may not be the- the actual trajectory at the beginning of its path." Would still like to hear how it could have missed the brain though, since it had to have been in that cavity.


I do see that the frontal lobe would be settling in that area and Horn does say there is and entry and an exit point I wish we had where he put the arrows not the one making the video. Anyhow, I too, believe the bullet traveled into the skull, I just think it either only grazed the brain or missed it, going right under it like the arrows even suggest. Horn said the brain was symmetrical and that there was no signs of a bullet track (althought the brain was "somewhat" decomposed" Somewhat means mild.
The arrows on that picture are not suggesting that is the actual entry point - it's simply there to show about where on the skull the bullet entered as related to the exit point.

The word "somewhat" in the text is not describing the level of decomp, as you keep saying. It is describing his ability to examine the brain being somewhat limited because of the decomp. Since the brain was "pudding" like, the wound track had disappeared, IOW. But he was able to determine little bleeding and no foreign objects, etc. He describes the level of decomp at trial in several places when he's describing the autopsy pics on direct, using terms of mummification, discoloration, marbling, slippage and bloating which were shown on the pictures. He also talked about it on cross during surrebuttal. He describes it as at the medium level of decomposition, and tells Willmott "that's pretty far along".

You might also notice that the image that Kevin Horn is talking about isn't the image that the producer of the video chose to put arrows on. If you notice juan is about to put this image on the overhead. the image horn was discussing was already on the overhead. So, this image is not accurately depicting what horn was talking about. unless there is another projector over there.
I think you've already found the answer to this, but just FTR, the image capture was taken from Juan's closing, not from Horn's testimony where he is describing what damage it shows.
 
grayhuze, I did find several of your videos helpful, especially for the room layout, dimensions, etc. so thank you for doing them and making them available. You invited discussion in that gunshot theory video, and argue it here as well, so while I obviously take issue with that one, your ability as an animator is impressive. Again, thank you for sharing them and also for being here to discuss them with us.
 
There was an exit hole in the cranial plate - that's on the autopsy report, testified to at trial and a picture of it exhibited at trial. Those are facts. Your answer saying what it looks like to you (somehow going under the frontal lobe) is not supported by that evidence. If it exited that area, it had to enter it, right? So how does it get out of the area that contains the brain without going through the brain?

Exactly this, and to help people visualize what it is you're saying here, we should look at actual anatomy rather than drawings/artistic interpretation of anatomy. In fact, the first thing that should be noted in this video that the cut made at the front of the skull was done slightly lower than the entry wound on TA's skull, and the brain is filling that entire space.

[video=youtube;CXGMDdJ06HQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXGMDdJ06HQ[/video]
 
Gray. I was watching your videos and came across a photo I've never seen. It appears to me travis has blood coming out of his auditory canal. I tried to find information in the report on Why it appears in the picture but it isn't addressed. Do you know of any info on whether that was residual bleeding from his neck wound or ..?
 
Its no different than other posters who sleuth or agg posters who question aspects of the crime. Its his opinion. An opinion held by some experts like forensic pathologists who have written about this case. I'm not sure why the open hostility towards the OP for sharing his opinion..

Maybe because the OP has little respect for some posters who have different opinions, and gives responses that the mods need to delete, because they are totally inappropriate.

Other posters aren't getting their own welcome threads and being introduced as experts in anything related to crime scenes. If they were, I would have the reasonable expectation that they, too, would be held to a higher degree of scrutiny than an "average" poster. It's not a good feeling when you find out that your computer expert is just a sound guy. Ask the DT.

And as far as I'm concerned, when your "opinion" is that the PT is lying (committing perjury), you'd better have some really solid evidence and knowledge to back it up.

Thank you, my exact same thoughts.
 
Here is another reference link.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/04/25/will-martinez-end-his-rebuttal-bang

Also does anyone remember the discussion about the stripling. Dr. Horn said there was none at the entry point which means she had to be at least a foot or more away when she fired the gun. There was a discussion about the further away she was would significantly affect the path of the bullet. So if she were two foot away and shot him in the forehead the bullet would not have angled downward. Even with a foot away wouldn't she have to have been significantly higher than he was to get that angle? Anyone remember that?
 
There are certainly plenty of examples of people surviving and functioning with penetrating wounds to the head but, as Dr. Horn explained on the stand, gunshot wounds are entirely different.

Bullets are not inert, like nails, arrows, etc. They are hot, typically tumbling and disseminating energy, and gaseous, creating a large cavity in their path, many times the size of the bullet, which as well as damaging tissue directly, also compresses the brain and generates shock waves throughout the cranial cavity.

Right, I just don't think the bullet hit the brain...if it did it grazed it.
 
Exactly this, and to help people visualize what it is you're saying here, we should look at actual anatomy rather than drawings/artistic interpretation of anatomy. In fact, the first thing that should be noted in this video that the cut made at the front of the skull was done slightly lower than the entry wound on TA's skull, and the brain is filling that entire space.

[video=youtube;CXGMDdJ06HQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXGMDdJ06HQ[/video]

thanks! This video shows exactly what I was thinking. awesome!
 
His throat was deeply slashed but Travis wasn't decapitated. And I'm sure plenty of murderer's have shot last, as a coup de grace or simply for 100% certainty that their victim is dead. Or (as was perhaps the case with Arias) to end the nasty noises.
right, just goofing around. Yes his head was still connected to his body.
 

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
191
Guests online
1,644
Total visitors
1,835

Forum statistics

Threads
594,867
Messages
18,014,513
Members
229,540
Latest member
E.Layne
Back
Top