Damien Echols' occult motives

[UdbCrzy2]

Just in case some of you are wondering if the jury considered any occult motives during deliberations, they did not.

Here are the jury notes during Echols/Baldwin trial - see for yourself.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/jury_charts.html

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Just in case some of you are wondering if the jury considered any occult motives during deliberations, they did not.

Here are the jury notes during Echols/Baldwin trial - see for yourself.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/jury_charts.html

Yeah, thanks for the resource but it would be nice if people were more specific with their links. No time to search.

I don't know what they considered in their head or what made an impression on them. Some things are subconscious and at the time there was a huge anti occult movement in the US and it was on TV, talk shows, news and everything.

So I am not sure I buy that it was not at all considered.

 

[Miranda!]

Just in case some of you are wondering if the jury considered any occult motives during deliberations, they did not.

Interesting. Some things can be so very obvious that people do not even bother to make a note of it. Do you keep a note to remind you of your own birthday??

It is perfectly feasible that the whole jury felt that the satanic element was so obviously a justification for conviction, that they did not need to go through the pros and cons of debating it. The community, and even further afield, were all so hyped up about this crime and finding it hard to 'comprehend'.

Most religions or spiritual beliefs stemmed from a need to be able to 'explain' the inexplicable and in this part of the Bible Belt the only way to come to terms with this crime was to lay it at satan's door. A combination of mass hysteria and mass hypnosis! In my opinion.

 

[primitivefuture]

Just in case some of you are wondering if the jury considered any occult motives during deliberations, they did not.

Here are the jury notes during Echols/Baldwin trial - see for yourself.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/jury_charts.html

It says "Satanic follower -A. Lavey -A. Crowley" in juror's notebook. Thank you for the link.

Edited to add that it says the same thing in the jury chart about Echols.


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[UdbCrzy2]

It says "Satanic follower -A. Lavey -A. Crowley" in juror's notebook. Thank you for the link.

Edited to add that it says the same thing in the jury chart about Echols.


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They considered Griffis testimony as biased. You can clearly see that in this jury note.

http://callahan.8k.com/images2/jury_charts/d_griffis.jpg

 

[primitivefuture]

They considered Griffis testimony as biased. You can clearly see that in this jury note.

http://callahan.8k.com/images2/jury_charts/d_griffis.jpg

It seems to me that a notation that they found Griffis biased toward occult following isn't enough to prove that the jury didn't consider any occult findings. Especially since they made notations about Echols being a "satanic follower" and listed Lavey and Crowley as influences in at least 2 places.


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[Ausgirl]

Omg, all this debate raging around my words and I didn't even know.

Look, here's the gist of it all - Crowley was only raised at trial with the intention of proving Echols' 'occult motives' by linking him with Crowley, because Crowley has a passage in a book regarding 'child sacrifice'. (which I suppose does make Crowley marginally significant)

I was attempting to point out that by 'perfect male child' Crowley actually meant 'sperm', and backed that up by pointing out that in his diaries, Crowley professed to making 150 such 'sacrifices' a year -- which makes no sense when applied to small boys, but makes a LOT more sense when applied to sperm.

I also said the explanation in the footnote to the oft-quoted passage in 'Magick' was by Crowley himself, and WHOOPS got that wrong - big deal? It doesn't one bit change the fact that Crowley didn't sacrifice kids, that this is a well known fact in occult circles -- and nor was Crowley a Satanist. And because these are facts that are verifiable with a little bit of research - I wondered why nobody had bothered to research them, if they were to be used in a murder trial.

All that they were essentially 'proving' is that Echols was a bit of a tosser. With which I must agree.

 

[Cappuccino]

They considered Griffis testimony as biased. You can clearly see that in this jury note.

http://callahan.8k.com/images2/jury_charts/d_griffis.jpg

They also considered him knowledgeable and well read. That can be clearly seen in the jury note too.

Not to mention all the nonsense about Crowley, Never on a Broomstick, etc.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

They also considered him knowledgeable and well read. That can be clearly seen in the jury note too.

Not to mention all the nonsense about Crowley, Never on a Broomstick, etc.

Also considered both Baldwin and Echols guilty of murdering 3 eight year old cub scouts too, don't forget that.

I thought it was interesting to read the notes and I like how they had them listed Pros/Cons. Honest or loyal on some. Any of us here cannot know what they jurors saw because we were not there. It really makes a difference when you are actually there and seeing the actual evidence.

I think they came to the right conclusion with their guilty verdicts.

 

[primitivefuture]

They also considered him knowledgeable and well read. That can be clearly seen in the jury note too.

Not to mention all the nonsense about Crowley, Never on a Broomstick, etc.

They also considered Jessie's confession, which they definitely were not supposed to do.


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[kyleb]

Look, here's the gist of it all - Crowley was only raised at trial with the intention of proving Echols' 'occult motives' by linking him with Crowley,

Rather, the prosecution found evidence of Echols linking himself to Crowley, as confirmed by Echols on the stand:

Q. Just one more thing. This sheet that I handed you – are you willing to admit that you wrote this while you have been in jail?

A. I wrote it, but I don't know when I wrote it.

Q. That’s another part where your memory is just kind of gone bad?

A. (No verbal response)

Q. Ok. The people that are listed on here – you got your name on here, right?

A. Um Hmm.

Q. And then Jason Baldwin, which is your best friend, right? And then you’ve got Damien Seth Azariah Echols, that’s your son?

A. Yes it is.

Q. Ok. And then the only other name on this document, besides yourself, your best friend and your son is Aleister Crowley?

A. The only names in English.

And regardless of many people choose to believe Crowley's writings on human sacrifice are noting more than euphemism for masturbation, Echols didn't express any such belief in the questioning just prior to being presented with the aforementioned evidence:

Q. But Alister Crowley is a guy that based on his writings believes in human sacrifice, doesn't he?

A. He also believed he was God so --

Q. He also had writings that indicated that children were the best type of human sacrifice, right?

A. Yes, sir.

That said, Of the Bloody Sacrifice and Matters Cognate is an entire chapter on blood sacrifice in which he declares "A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim" among many forms of blood sacrifice, as anyone who cares to can read for themselves.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Damien has continued to network with people involved in the occult post release, and has covered his body in occult tattoos. His beliefs remain as they were at the time of the murders, and he has continued to develop along the same lines as he was then.

 

[Ausgirl]

.... so what?

"The occult" doesn't necessarily make you a bad person filled with malevolent intent. I have "occult" -ish friends who are exemplary people, parents and citizens.

I do not care much for Echols, but I am deeply offended by the insinuation that his beliefs are something people can feel free to openly sneer at and associate by default with negative behaviour.

- Aus (former occultist)

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Damien has continued to network with people involved in the occult post release, and has covered his body in occult tattoos. His beliefs remain as they were at the time of the murders, and he has continued to develop along the same lines as he was then.

He has said that he likes to drink blood because it gives him power. I wonder if he has ever approached Lorri with that proposal?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

He has said that he likes to drink blood because it gives him power. I wonder if he has ever approached Lorri with that proposal?

Oh god, part of me feels sorry for that woman really, god knows what she has to put up with from Damien now that he is free.

 

[Miranda!]

Damien has covered his body in occult tattoos. His beliefs remain as they were at the time of the murders, and he has continued to develop along the same lines as he was then.

First off, I have never seen this character naked, nor would I want to! Can you provide the link to the evidence that convinced you that he 'has covered his body in occult tattoos'?

I guess anything that is not on the OT is considered 'satanic' by some. So, for those, then, yes, the I-Ching is 'satanic'!

I doubt I would find I had much in common with DE and do not find him a sympathetic character. However, I would defend his right to a fair trial and Justice. That is so not dependant on 'liking' him!

Are people in the US really allowed freedom of religion, belief systems and speech? Or is it only OK if those views are the ones held by everyone in the community???

How many kids has Johnny Depp murdered? He has a similar 'satanic tattoo'!

I guess some people feel the need to assign blame on satan when they cannot grasp something beyond their ken.

 

[kyleb]

I guess anything that is not on the OT is considered 'satanic' by some.

Sure, but nobody is making such a ridiculous argument here, and I for one consider portions of the Bible as satanic as anything, the slaughters celebrated throughout Book of Joshua being one notable example.

 

[reedus23]

I guess some people feel the need to assign blame on satan when they cannot grasp something beyond their ken.

This. Further, IMO, when there is nothing else to discuss of substance relating to the case, people will fall back to attacking things they view as negative, whether it has relevance to the case or not.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

First off, I have never seen this character naked, nor would I want to! Can you provide the link to the evidence that convinced you that he 'has covered his body in occult tattoos'?

I guess anything that is not on the OT is considered 'satanic' by some. So, for those, then, yes, the I-Ching is 'satanic'!

I doubt I would find I had much in common with DE and do not find him a sympathetic character. However, I would defend his right to a fair trial and Justice. That is so not dependant on 'liking' him!

Are people in the US really allowed freedom of religion, belief systems and speech? Or is it only OK if those views are the ones held by everyone in the community???

How many kids has Johnny Depp murdered? He has a similar 'satanic tattoo'!

I guess some people feel the need to assign blame on satan when they cannot grasp something beyond their ken.

Did I call the I-Ching satanic, or even suggest the Occult was?

You are misunderstanding me, I am not a god botherer and 'blaming satan' well, I certainly do not believe in either him or the sky wizard. However, there are occult symbols and practises that Damien involves himself in. Now Damien doesn't hide his occult practices or interest either. Funnily enough, I actually do think Damien did do the crime, but I share many of his interests and even though I don't actually believe in the power of magick I have certainly taken time to enjoy much of the history the art, and have even practiced of some of it for many years, especially Tarot.

Many of Damien's Tattoos come from the world of the Occult, and he still studies and practices along those lines, I don't think he would deny it himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z5D-Qg2bLE

This video show some of the tattoos and their meaning. Even though the common understanding of the Occult seems to point to something akin to satanism, or the dark arts, in reality the Occult refers to the pagan religions which had to go underground and be practiced 'in secret' after christianity entered Europe for fear of persecution, there is nothing particularly 'evil' about the occult.

occult
ɒˈkʌlt,ˈɒkʌlt/Submit
noun
1.
mystical, supernatural, or magical powers, practices, or phenomena.
"a secret society to study alchemy and the occult"
synonyms: the supernatural, the paranormal, supernaturalism, magic, black magic, witchcraft, sorcery, necromancy, wizardry, the black arts, Kabbalah, cabbalism, occultism, diabolism, devil worship, devilry, voodoo, hoodoo, white magic, witchery, witching, orenda, mysticism; makutu; raretheurgy
"his sister was a spiritualist with a strong interest in the occult"

 

[Compassionate Reader]

<respectfully snipped>

Funnily enough, I actually do think Damien did do the crime, but I share many of his interests and even though I don't actually believe in the power of magick I have certainly taken time to enjoy much of the history the art, and have even practiced of some of it for many years, especially Tarot.

BBM

This, IMO, simply proves how totally irrelevant to the crime Damien's supposed "occultist beliefs" and/or practices are! Unless everyone who practices any form of occult is a suspect in every crime with possible "occult trappings" there simply is no connection between such beliefs or practices and this (or any other) crime.