ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 12

[SyraKelly]

A YouTuber who inserts herself into cases by traveling throughout the country to suspects’ houses (deservedly or not) and literally uses a bullhorn outside their residences.

Thank you. I hope someone told her it's probably not a good idea..

 

[guestwriter]

I am sure they do. That is really sadistic, and therefore very satisfying to a narcissistic psycho.

How could a person have been blocking the door if the killer was the last one out? Unless they were clinging to life, crawling towards the door? Doesn't make sense.

We don’t know if they would have survived if they hadn’t bled out..

 

[Emerald1328]

I'm beginning to wonder if one of the girls had wounds to the face. Intentional wounds. Maybe? This might be why police are so convinced it's targeted.
Again targeted can mean many things. And one person having more wounds/body showing greater ferocity of attack would also infer that the killer had more anger for that particular person. It'd be Interesting to see the autopsy reports.

I’ve been a bit concerned about this as well, because of this:

“Mabbutt also told NewsNation that each victim suffered multiple stab wounds from a “pretty large knife.”

“It has to be somebody pretty angry in order to stab four people to death,” Mabbutt told NewsNation. The victims were stabbed in the chest and upper body, the coroner

So we have chest AND upper body. Which, IMO, means upper back, shoulders, upper arms, neck, face and head. Of course it could be any one of those but it was a thought that crossed my mind too.

Coroner: Slain Idaho students were likely asleep

Cathy Mabbutt, the Latah County coroner, ruled all four deaths a homicide and said the students died from stabbings.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[SkyBoomer]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

The survivors are definitely not useless. You may be surprised what could be learned by knowing where they were before and what they did before bed. We don’t even know that they were asleep before the roommates got home.

From the little information we have, as far as we know, it’s possible every single roommate could have been awake together from 2-3. Meaning they might have witnessed k and ms phone calls and know what they were for. That’s just one example.

It’s possible, but I get super uncomfortable reading suggestions on other forums that the survivors know more about what happened that early morning and that their later movements/reactions are sus. I think those poor young women are traumatized and IMO they have already given LE everything they can— shared all they know.

I don’t think they are “useless” as the other poster said, but I do not think they are holding back valuable info from LE. They don’t know anything, IMO.

 

[DizzyB]

I was looking at the supposed layout of the house again. Was X’s room next to a bathroom and laundry room? Could the killer have been in one of those rooms and heard X or E stir in the bedroom?

 

[Lyanna]

If Murphy was let out but not walked on a leash, one or both of the girls could have let him out and gone upstairs for a bit. Murphy was chased off by the killer who took that opportunity to enter the unlocked, possibly open sliding door and hide. When they came down to let him in, he did not come when called, instigating the phone calls, maybe for help to find the dog. They may have given up, or even passed out depending on intoxication state.

Also possible Murphy was let out, then in (or walked) and the sliding door left unlocked. When killer entered, Murphy went out.

My take was that he was found later on the 13th, the day of the incident. Maybe even that evening.

Agree - how murderer entered the property was because Murphy was let out. Opportunity arose that they couldn't resist. K's sister said they were careful and took their personal safety importantly

Moo

 

[ShadyLady]

There is no log of a Welfare Check to that address here on the Moscow Police Log

MPD Press Log 11/13/2022

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Ops, now I dont remember where I heard it. It was a 911, but for unconscious person. Or someone that would not wake up, not for a crime. I thought it was on one of the LE briefs.

 

[JSTANOVICE]

It's not useless now that they are using genetic genealogy to figure out who the murderers are

Doesn’t That take A long time, genetic genealogy?

 

[wary]

Is it possible to get a list of phone numbers who pinged off the closest cell tower between certain times, say midnight to 6 am?

That would be a geofence warrant. It’s possible in some states, but there’s considerable debate about how, and when, and if it should be used at all.

I don’t know Idaho’s position on the subject

 

[JSTANOVICE]

I read that book too and remember the 'creepy-crawling' incidents. I was going to post about it, but you beat me to the punch. It makes me wonder if the perp had entered the house on a previous occasion to scope it out.

I read That book Helter smelter creepy is an understatement, Another one Was Zodiac

 

[MntnHiker]

I personally am not putting much of any importance on the calls to J from ~230-3. I forget the exact wording used, but at the second presser when LE essentially said that the calls were cleared and had nothing to do with this, it solidified to me that this was likely drunk dialing of an ex about something mundane - wanting him to come over, etc. This could have possibly even happened on other nights when she had some drinks and was not a one-off, either. We don't know that, but police would with her phone records. I also don't believe it's because they lost the dog. I am a dog owner and if I just discovered my dog was nowhere to be found at 230 AM, there's no way I could go to sleep within the next hour. I'd be out looking for the dog in the neighborhood and would enlist all my roommates to help. I know that what I would do is not necessarily what these women would do, but I just have a hard time believing if the dog was lost, they'd try J for a half an hour and then just go to sleep. IMO of course. I guess it's possible it WAS lost while they were calling and then they found him, but I'm still unsure of this angle.

Someone had mentioned that we know a lot more about K and M's night than X and E's. I honestly believe that's mainly because they happened to be caught on a Twitch video at the food truck. If K and M had not been on that video or if the food truck hadn't been live streaming, all we'd really know about K and M was that they went to a bar and possibly might know they stopped at a food truck if family released their credit card receipts. But a lot of the discussion around these two women involves this video they were caught on. Without it, we would probably not be discussing them as much. MOO

 

[CityKid]

My head has been all over the place as far as theories go. But a few things that I've noticed that make me wonder.
-all of the victims Instagram have remained public. Except for Ethan.
-the 2 surviving roommates (understandably) switched their Instagram to private or deactivated their account. Ethan's surviving triplets also switched to private. So did the frat. Neither of the sororities all roommates belonged to did this.)
-Surving roommates and ethan's siblings were all on scene (roommates confirmed/siblings possibly per parents interview saying they "were there" depending on how you interpret) when police arrived.
-we've received little to no information on Ethan/Xana at or after the frat party.
-witnesses have come forward that saw Maddie & Kaylee and given interviews. We've seen them on camera, know who brought them home and when, etc).
-no one that saw Ethan or Xana that night have spoken publicly. The police have released 0 details on their night.

All of the above has me thinking E and/or X were the target. Something happened at that party involving E or X. Someone came to the house and confronted them while M & K we're still awake. Person got kicked out and yelled at/insulted by all 4 of them. Person left feeling slighted, possibly embarrassed/rejected because the girls piled on him, all on E's side. Went and got a weapon, came back when everyone was asleep to make them all pay.
- media and everyone else is focused on K & M. Police are feeding into that theory to keep the media/social media out of their investigation.
- fraternity holds the key, and Ethan's siblings and maybe even the 2 surviving roommates know there was an altercation. They are all MIA because they know the police are doing their thing. Frat is locked down on social, and their members, because when this comes out, the publicity for the frat will be a nightmare on a national level and they are getting their ducks in a row to combat the hellstorm of negative press that will be coming there way. What's worst for a fraternity than a hazing death? Admitting a sociopath that goes on to murder 4 Greek students. And maybe there were warning signs the frat ignored.

All just IMO and wild speculation. I just feel a little like we're being told to look left so we don't see what's happening to the right. JMO. I need to take a break from thinking about this tragedy. Hoping the families get answers soon.

Your opinion is what I've settled on in the past week or so. IMO something went on during the time gap in E and X's time line. Being at his own house's party for only an hour strikes me as odd (I went to a frat-heavy uni). Pure speculation, but I wish I knew whether they left voluntarily or there was beef, whether they met others for some reason (something nefarious?) in those hours...just anything.

 

[tokyorose]

Agree - how murderer entered the property was because Murphy was let out. Opportunity arose that they couldn't resist. K's sister said they were careful and took their personal safety importantly

Moo

I don't necessarily agree. I have also heard speculation that the lock on the slider did not work, Murphy may have had nothing to do with how the killer entered. I believe the sister was just going on past behavior or routine and not because she had specific information about that night. MOO

 

[Quiche]

I'm really hoping that the co-workers at the Mad Greek are all being thoroughly interviewed-- seems to me a very solid link between 2 victims on both floors of the house that were "targeted." Xana and Maddie.

MOO

 

[Diddian]

For those who've followed multiple cases where FBI behavioral analysis unit becomes involved:

How long is it typically before their involvement becomes apparent in LE press conferences and appeals to the public? I've seen in other cases where LE asks members of the public to think about if an acquaintance, coworker, roommate, or family member made some recent changes to appearance - cut or colored hair, removed or changed facial hair, stopped wearing commonly worn clothing, stopped or began wearing glasses instead of contact lenses - or had recently changed habits - terminated employment or schooling, kept to himself/herself, drinking or abusing drugs more than usual, insomnia, etc. And also, whether they might have skipped work or not shown up for something they'd been expected to on the night of the murders or they show up unusually late.

So far, there has been no apparent FBI guidance in this respect. That could mean they have narrowed focus to one or a few individuals or that they are still forming their profile based on the evidence gathered to date or even that they are waiting to employ the profile until after the Thanksgiving break (or that they are employing the profile in individual interviews rather than through a public press conference given that so many students have departed).

 

[stmarysmead]

My head has been all over the place as far as theories go. But a few things that I've noticed that make me wonder.
-all of the victims Instagram have remained public. Except for Ethan.
-the 2 surviving roommates (understandably) switched their Instagram to private or deactivated their account. Ethan's surviving triplets also switched to private. So did the frat. Neither of the sororities all roommates belonged to did this.)
-Surving roommates and ethan's siblings were all on scene (roommates confirmed/siblings possibly per parents interview saying they "were there" depending on how you interpret) when police arrived.
-we've received little to no information on Ethan/Xana at or after the frat party.
-witnesses have come forward that saw Maddie & Kaylee and given interviews. We've seen them on camera, know who brought them home and when, etc).
-no one that saw Ethan or Xana that night have spoken publicly. The police have released 0 details on their night.

All of the above has me thinking E and/or X were the target. Something happened at that party involving E or X. Someone came to the house and confronted them while M & K we're still awake. Person got kicked out and yelled at/insulted by all 4 of them. Person left feeling slighted, possibly embarrassed/rejected because the girls piled on him, all on E's side. Went and got a weapon, came back when everyone was asleep to make them all pay.
- media and everyone else is focused on K & M. Police are feeding into that theory to keep the media/social media out of their investigation.
- fraternity holds the key, and Ethan's siblings and maybe even the 2 surviving roommates know there was an altercation. They are all MIA because they know the police are doing their thing. Frat is locked down on social, and their members, because when this comes out, the publicity for the frat will be a nightmare on a national level and they are getting their ducks in a row to combat the hellstorm of negative press that will be coming there way. What's worst for a fraternity than a hazing death? Admitting a sociopath that goes on to murder 4 Greek students. And maybe there were warning signs the frat ignored.

All just IMO and wild speculation. I just feel a little like we're being told to look left so we don't see what's happening to the right. JMO. I need to take a break from thinking about this tragedy. Hoping the families get answers soon.

This is my theory too or a variation thereof. The 4 were in a common area. The killer came by and either arrived angry or the argument developed quickly.

Kand M were inebriated and may have inserted themselves rather vehemently in defense of friends. In the killers mind, all 4 had wronged him, insulted him …but not the sleeping roommates on the lower level.

 

[Txbarfly]

New to this, first post. I found WS after madly googling for any additional info on the Moscow murders. I lived there and attended UI, and am having a hard time wrapping my head around it. I know that it isn’t the usual, but this feels more than bungling to me by police. Even the coroner has conflicting statements. I get why they want to keep certain info close, but it doesn’t seem like they even know what they’ve got and how to interpret it.

That 911 call. Seriously so convoluted. Unconscious person, made with a surviving roommates phone but not the surviving roommate? Oh yeah, and there were other people present. Maybe it was a surviving roommate who was unconscious.

It’s targeted but we’re not going to tell you who or what is the target but don’t worry everyone and then walk that back a few days later, you lost the community’s confidence there. If this is a stand alone case, then it sure feels like the target is women, Ethan happened to be there. And if that is the case, half of the population doesn’t need to worry.

Also not searching the woods behind the house for a week? Really?

My profile says white male 18-35, lives alone or with parents. Has hunting or military experience. Is a psychopath. Lives nearby. I think he watched from the woodsy part behind the house, didn’t know the downstairs contained two more bedrooms, methodically went room to room killing, then left on foot back up the hill and possibly cut through the arboretum to a waiting vehicle (car/bike) on Palouse River Drive.

Has any information been released about how many people were summoned over by the two surviving roommates and how long they were there before the 911 call was made? I saw comments elsewhere (that could be 100% speculation) suggesting these friends had been there for an hour or more. It still bugs me on several levels, one being the integrity of the crime scene. For some reason, MPD has been very tight-lipped about the circumstances surrounding the 911 call. Maybe that’s something I need to move past.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

MOO, I've been all over the place with this one, but now after reflecting on all the info...

I feel it's the simplest explanation, it was someone closest, deeply intimate to the target. And whoever was one of the closest to the target felt he had a lot to lose. Obsessed, became resentful and stewed about it. Blaming everyone around her for what he was going to lose. And there's the timing of it.. JMO

 

[stmarysmead]

Curious whether anyone knows the story behind the comment made at the beginning of this MSNBC piece, about 5 days ago:

"a physical struggle took place before the murders happened" (@ 17 seconds in).

This was never repeated again as far as I know. I just chalked it up to an unfortunate wording of "there were defensive wounds found on some of the victims".

An earlier ‘visit’ by the Killer ended in a ‘physical struggle” perhaps. That could account for the ‘targeted’ description. Or maybe it is just a rumor they were investigating.

 

[AngTxGal]

Doesn’t That take A long time, genetic genealogy?

Not necessarily, first they have to get the DNA profile from a sample.
This case is high profile, so anything and everything may be rushed and $ may not be an issue.

Comparisons to victims and housemates- if it is male that narrows it
Comparisons to databases of known criminals
Comparisons to databases of familial DNA- that is ancestry type databases

One issue is sex offenders, lots of rape kits sit on shelves in states and take months to years to run. There is a huge backlog- The Jogger Fletcher in Memphis was the murder victim of a guy who should have been linked to a rape he committed, but the rape kit of his victim was sitting on a shelf. He should have been in prison.

Rape victim sues City of Memphis claiming negligence in 2021 case allowed Eliza Fletcher’s death

The victim who says she was raped by Eliza Fletcher’s alleged killer 11 months ago filed a lawsuit on Tuesday against the City of Memphis for failing to investigate the 2021 case and subsequently failing to prevent Fletcher’s death.

www.actionnews5.com

JMO MOO