I'm so angry part 2

[JBean]

I am getting angrier the more and more I see that photo of all those school buses on that parking lot floodd to their roof tops. If the plan for the state was put into action, hundreds and maybe thousands of people could have been saved .... there were a LOT of buses on that lot ... what a waste.

you should be mad. according to my sister there were hundreds of unused buses that could have saved people with advanced planning at the local level.

 

[less0305]

you should be mad. according to my sister there were hundreds of unused buses that could have saved people with advanced planning at the local level.

And if they couldn't get people out before the storm....why weren't they moved so they could have been used AFTER the storm to get people out?? Who leaves their fleet of transportation like a sitting duck?? Now, some disasters I can understand, tornado, earthquake, etc. But it wasn't like the Mayor didn't see the hurricane coming for a few days. He made some mistakes obviously.

The president and federal agencies will be held accountable through the many, many investigations and congressional hearings to make sure of that. I doubt there will be any kind of formal review at the city and state levels...other than the possibility of being voted out in the next election.

 

[kgeaux]

kgeaux, have you noticed how the towns that are taking in the evacuees are immediately getting the kids into schools? I think this is great!

They started placing the evacuated children in school out here today, and in San Diego I think they start next week. I think they're making sure all the kids have their immunitizations first and school clothes.

Yes, the communities are really moving to try to bring some normalicy into the lives of these children. I don't think my district is even worried about immunizations at this point, those are required in every district in the state so I guess it's assumed that if they were in school in the NO area, the shots are up to date. We've got people giving uniforms out, too. Most of us had some to give, some people with more resources are able to purchase and donate brand new uniforms. A couple of families I know had kids with 5 uniforms and gave up 2. They've just made a commitment to wash uniforms more often, and pray for the displaced kids everytime they have to wash.

We've got some kids that have already started in classes, some will start today, and all by Monday. They are staggering and trying to fit in. School board is struggling to find enough text books, but we'll get it.

**As an aside: A school board member yesterday stated 4000 new registrations, the newspaper this morning is saying 2800! That's quite a little difference! I am wondering what is true!!

And if they couldn't get people out before the storm....why weren't they moved so they could have been used AFTER the storm to get people out?? Who leaves their fleet of transportation like a sitting duck?? Now, some disasters I can understand, tornado, earthquake, etc. But it wasn't like the Mayor didn't see the hurricane coming for a few days. He made some mistakes obviously.

The president and federal agencies will be held accountable through the many, many investigations and congressional hearings to make sure of that. I doubt there will be any kind of formal review at the city and state levels...other than the possibility of being voted out in the next election.

State and local responses are being investigated! No one is going to be able to sweep this under the rug.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Deputy, I don't think anyone here doubts there is great heroism going on throughout the devastated regions. Many of the survivors have said as much.

It's the upper management we're faulting, not those who put their lives on the line.

Hi Nova,

Actually I have never felt anyone was faulting the rescue workers themselves. Exactly the opposite. I posted that primarily for two reasons: 1) to show that even in one public service agency, there is great procedures, plans and staff, and yet confusion, tempers, opinions, still affect us everyday, without losing sight of the purpose; and 2) to give another kudos to any improvements/rescues and help given, no matter how small. I don't like losing sight of that. Guess I like reading/seeing the good, and like to mix it in with the negatives.

I look at this agency of 7,000+ as just a small community of our larger community of the US.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Our schools here in Central TX are having the evacuees show up in greater numbers on a daily basis. Today, my daughter's school will start with 2. Not a large number, but the kids at the HS made welcoming banners, etc. yesterday. That just gives me GOOD chills - can you imagine being one of the evacuees, having no normal or routine life that you knew, showing up to a new school with welcome banners, etc. hanging out in front for you? Awesome. :clap:

ETA: And kgeaux, you're right, why am I posting this on a "I am so angry" thread. Sorry to all :doh:

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Okay, back to being angry, to stay on topic, LOL

On Fox today, I think it was the Lt. Commander or similar for the Army National Guard being interviewed - and there was still confusion on who is in charge of them, the Governor or General Honore, if I heard it correctly. Did anyone else see this interview (about 6:40am CST)? What is it that's still not clear, who's in charge?

Ugh. :doh:

 

[TexMex]

And if they couldn't get people out before the storm....why weren't they moved so they could have been used AFTER the storm to get people out?? Who leaves their fleet of transportation like a sitting duck?? Now, some disasters I can understand, tornado, earthquake, etc. But it wasn't like the Mayor didn't see the hurricane coming for a few days. He made some mistakes obviously.

The president and federal agencies will be held accountable through the many, many investigations and congressional hearings to make sure of that. I doubt there will be any kind of formal review at the city and state levels...other than the possibility of being voted out in the next election.

The mayor was asked about the buses yesterday and had "no comment" :banghead:

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

The mayor was asked about the buses yesterday and had "no comment" :banghead:

It'll be interesting to hear from City employees later - who was supposed to be driving the buses, etc. What were they told?

 

[JBean]

It'll be interesting to hear from City employees later - who was supposed to be driving the buses, etc. What were they told?

I wonder if it says in that city plan who is supposed to man the buses? Surely they would have thought of that in advance? I will check the manual.

 

[less0305]

Okay, back to being angry, to stay on topic, LOL

On Fox today, I think it was the Lt. Commander or similar for the Army National Guard being interviewed - and there was still confusion on who is in charge of them, the Governor or General Honore, if I heard it correctly. Did anyone else see this interview (about 6:40am CST)? What is it that's still not clear, who's in charge?

Ugh. :doh:

Deputy....I heard that. I think it still has a little something to do with maybe the Governor still hasn't signed executive orders allowing the federal government to take charge. So I think the State National Guard troops are still under command of the Governor. I'm not sure I have that right, but that was my thinking anyway.

Speaking of being angry and ridiculous comments:

Did you hear the Mayor's comment regarding sending police officers on vacation (many of whom are "reportedly" not wanting to go anyway)? Britt Hume asked him how he could justify sending law enforcement on a mandatory vacation when there are still people to rescue and much work to be done - Mayor Nagin said these words... "This is a party city. Get over it."

Loved that one!!

And another thing I wondered if anyone saw....

Last night on MSNBC show Oberman (I believe it was) he does a "Worse, Worser, Worst" segment or monologue and he gave the "Worst" award to Geraldo Rivera because it is claimed that Geraldo staged some footage of him helping "rescue" a woman and her dog. Said the scene was set up and filmed and then filmed again because something wasn't right with the first shot. By the way, Michael Jackson was the "worser" award. I can't remember who was the "worse."

 

[Dara]

CNN has reported that last night on Capitol Hill a "contentious closed door meeting" took place. They said a steady stream of Republicans and Democrats ripped into the federal government's response. And Michael Chertoff said conditions in the SuperDome weren't as bad as reported, despite, CNN pointed out, the images that were reported over and over. His comments were not well received.

I guess he didn't read the headlines (imaginary headlines?) in the newspaper about that.

It's nice to know in a national disaster, the man in charge of Homeland Security will blame state and local government for not telling him how bad things were while they were going on and then later, claiming they weren't as bad (thought he didn't know) as is being widely reported.

Kind of explains the stories of fireman sitting around and not being properly allocated while victims are still waiting for help.

 

[TexMex]

It'll be interesting to hear from City employees later - who was supposed to be driving the buses, etc. What were they told?

Article from The Telegraph (UK)




Consider the signature image of the flood: an aerial shot of 255 school buses neatly parked at one city lot, their fuel tanks leaking gasoline into the urban lake. An enterprising blogger, Bryan Preston, worked out that each bus had 66 seats, which meant that the vehicles at just that one lot could have ferried out 16,830 people. Instead of entrusting its most vulnerable citizens to the gang-infested faecal hell of the Superdome, New Orleans had more than enough municipal transport on hand to have got almost everyone out in a couple of runs last Sunday.

Why didn't they? Well, the mayor didn't give the order. OK, but how about school board officials, or the fellows with the public schools transportation department, or the guy who runs that motor pool, or the individual bus drivers? If it ever occurred to any of them that these were potentially useful evacuation assets, they kept it to themselves.

So the first school bus to escape New Orleans and make it to safety in Texas was one that had been abandoned on a city street. A party of sodden citizens, ranging from the elderly to an eight-day-old baby, were desperate to get out, hopped aboard and got teenager Jabbor Gibson to drive them 13 hours non-stop to Houston. He'd never driven a bus before, and the authorities back in New Orleans may yet prosecute him. For rescuing people without a permit?
__________________


Morning Dawg

 

[TexMex]

CNN has reported that last night on Capitol Hill a "contentious closed door meeting" took place. They said a steady stream of Republicans and Democrats ripped into the federal government's response. And Michael Chertoff said conditions in the SuperDome weren't as bad as reported, despite, CNN pointed out, the images that were reported over and over. His comments were not well received.

I guess he didn't read the headlines (imaginary headlines?) in the newspaper about that.

It's nice to know in a national disaster, the man in charge of Homeland Security will blame state and local government for not telling him how bad things were while they were going on and then later, claiming they weren't as bad (thought he didn't know) as is being widely reported.

Kind of explains the stories of fireman sitting around and not being properly allocated while victims are still waiting for help.

The mayor pointed out yesterday that as bad as things were at the Dome at least the majority of people there are alive. Those that refused evacuation--the majority are dead.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Article from The Telegraph (UK)




Consider the signature image of the flood: an aerial shot of 255 school buses neatly parked at one city lot, their fuel tanks leaking gasoline into the urban lake. An enterprising blogger, Bryan Preston, worked out that each bus had 66 seats, which meant that the vehicles at just that one lot could have ferried out 16,830 people. Instead of entrusting its most vulnerable citizens to the gang-infested faecal hell of the Superdome, New Orleans had more than enough municipal transport on hand to have got almost everyone out in a couple of runs last Sunday.

Why didn't they? Well, the mayor didn't give the order. OK, but how about school board officials, or the fellows with the public schools transportation department, or the guy who runs that motor pool, or the individual bus drivers? If it ever occurred to any of them that these were potentially useful evacuation assets, they kept it to themselves.

So the first school bus to escape New Orleans and make it to safety in Texas was one that had been abandoned on a city street. A party of sodden citizens, ranging from the elderly to an eight-day-old baby, were desperate to get out, hopped aboard and got teenager Jabbor Gibson to drive them 13 hours non-stop to Houston. He'd never driven a bus before, and the authorities back in New Orleans may yet prosecute him. For rescuing people without a permit?
__________________


Morning Dawg

wow, 16,830 people. what a damn shame.

thanks for posting this.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I wonder if it says in that city plan who is supposed to man the buses? Surely they would have thought of that in advance? I will check the manual.

Surely!!! But were they properly trained, were they properly communicated to in the days leading up to the hurricane? Surely (!) they were given direct instruction as to who would be doing what. Or did they all just abandon their duties? I'd like to hear whose direction they took. To me, the bus situation should be one of the easiest ones to get to the bottom of...what WAS the plan? Did they go out into the neighborhoods in the days leading up to it and try to rescue those who didn't have the means to evacuate themselves? We get conflicting info on that, yes they did, no they didn't.

 

[Dara]

The mayor pointed out yesterday that as bad as things were at the Dome at least the majority of people there are alive. Those that refused evacuation--the majority are dead.

That is true. That is also quite different than saying things were not as bad as was and is being reported, as Chertoff did. It's damage control. Thank goodness it sounds like his audience was not interested in revisionist history and excuses.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Surely!!! But were they properly trained, were they properly communicated to in the days leading up to the hurricane? Surely (!) they were given direct instruction as to who would be doing what. Or did they all just abandon their duties? I'd like to hear whose direction they took. To me, the bus situation should be one of the easiest ones to get to the bottom of...what WAS the plan? Did they go out into the neighborhoods in the days leading up to it and try to rescue those who didn't have the means to evacuate themselves? We get conflicting info on that, yes they did, no they didn't.

yeah, we may never know the truth.

Just like the story I read the other day about the police officers abandoning their duties and not showing up either. What's the truth behind that?

a lot of people failed to do their jobs and let a lot of people down. luckily there were so many others who DID their jobs.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Deputy....I heard that. I think it still has a little something to do with maybe the Governor still hasn't signed executive orders allowing the federal government to take charge. So I think the State National Guard troops are still under command of the Governor. I'm not sure I have that right, but that was my thinking anyway.

Speaking of being angry and ridiculous comments:

Did you hear the Mayor's comment regarding sending police officers on vacation (many of whom are "reportedly" not wanting to go anyway)? Britt Hume asked him how he could justify sending law enforcement on a mandatory vacation when there are still people to rescue and much work to be done - Mayor Nagin said these words... "This is a party city. Get over it."

Loved that one!!

And another thing I wondered if anyone saw....

Last night on MSNBC show Oberman (I believe it was) he does a "Worse, Worser, Worst" segment or monologue and he gave the "Worst" award to Geraldo Rivera because it is claimed that Geraldo staged some footage of him helping "rescue" a woman and her dog. Said the scene was set up and filmed and then filmed again because something wasn't right with the first shot. By the way, Michael Jackson was the "worser" award. I can't remember who was the "worse."

Less, you're killing me. Interesting, but sad quotes. It is no longer a party city. Get over it? Oh my.

And I'm glad you saw that Fox interview as well. So, we're all angry about the right hand not talking to the left hand in the first 24-48 hours of this disaster. But here, over a week later, there is STILL confusion over who is in charge of the different Guard units? I just don't understand. And yes, shouldn't or can't Bush step in and stop the power struggles or whatever? :doh: I know I don't know all the story and the behind the scenes actions...but DANG!

 

[JBean]

Surely!!! But were they properly trained, were they properly communicated to in the days leading up to the hurricane? Surely (!) they were given direct instruction as to who would be doing what. Or did they all just abandon their duties? I'd like to hear whose direction they took. To me, the bus situation should be one of the easiest ones to get to the bottom of...what WAS the plan? Did they go out into the neighborhoods in the days leading up to it and try to rescue those who didn't have the means to evacuate themselves? We get conflicting info on that, yes they did, no they didn't.

This is the part I just cannot get passed. Officials of the city and state knew the potential for danger for their own people, yet it seems almost as if they did nothing. I just cannot reconcile this in my head. IT's like me not fending for my own family and just assuming the locals will pick up the slack for me. It's just outrageous.

 

[TexMex]

That is true. That is also quite different than saying things were not as bad as was and is being reported, as Chertoff did. It's damage control. Thank goodness it sounds like his audience was not interested in revisionist history and excuses.

But who told those people to go to the Dome, bring their OWN food and water---then LEFT them there without generators, police protection or even water. I believe it was the Mayor. He put them there. He knew they were there. Did he visit the Dome, post flood? Did he do a damn thing to help them?
Talk about damage control. What happened to those folks should haunt him every night. He could have put them all on buses Sunday--before the Hurricane hit. :doh: