Identified! KY - Owensboro, Pleasant Valley Rd, WhtMale 25-40, UP87, curly hair, eyeglasses, Jan'90 - William Dennis Mathews

[Cubby]

I agree on the ears and pointy nose, and I'll add eyebrows and browline. Although the eyebrowns are not quite as bushy as the drawing suggests, they are the same shape, and at the nose, they extend inward past the vertical plane of his eyes.

The only thing is that I've dealt with Emily Craig (i.e., the Kentucky ME) on one other occasion, and I know how she operates. If you don't spoonfeed her the fingerprints, dentals or DNA info, she won't lift a finger to try to obtain it herself. She has told me that she doesn't see it as her job to go seek out these things. As she sees it, it's the job of LE on the MP side.

I saw the same things with the eyebrows and brow line, and the shape at the nose. Exactly what I saw Carl.

The Dentals for this doe, IIRC, are listed at NamUs. Would that be good enough for Emily? Maybe contact LE for his missing persons case first and see if you can coordinate the info?

 

[Cubby]

Okay, I won't get off on a tangent about the lack of coordination of both agencies, so to get results, it is best to play stupid and cheerful, stroking the ego of both and get them connected. Yeah, its all about politics and ego but it can be done.
So have you determined if you can get what she wants? Most older cases won't have any DNA samples or tissue to get from. As you know many won't have fingerprints. As to the dentals, (forgive me if this seems obvious) having a dental chart is not a guarantee. A chart can rule OUT a person but will not yield positive results for a match. So, what is needed are x-rays or microfilm of the dentals. I will go read the cases now. You are correct on the brow structure. Prominent.

Thank you for the info. I was hoping you would chime in on this thread Mensch. I agree with your suggestion on the ego stroking. BTDT and have used that approach myself. :floorlaugh: Sometimes even a little bit of humiliation doesn't hurt either -depending on the circumstances but I usually use that to try and get LE a bit more interested in cold cases. In other words embarrass 'em a little to get them on the list of super duper awesome jurisdictions solving cold cases. hee hee. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Can still try.

 

[Mensch]

Thank you for the info. I was hoping you would chime in on this thread Mensch. I agree with your suggestion on the ego stroking. BTDT and have used that approach myself. :floorlaugh: Sometimes even a little bit of humiliation doesn't hurt either -depending on the circumstances but I usually use that to try and get LE a bit more interested in cold cases. In other words embarrass 'em a little to get them on the list of super duper awesome jurisdictions solving cold cases. hee hee. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Can still try.

LOL...We have little cooperation so we have to get 'creative'! I usually start with how excited I am that (the investigating officer) can bring closure to the family and solve a cold case at the same time and how thrilled he must be to be in a position to something so rewarding.....yadyaydayada. Only sometimes.... but worth it!

 

[Mensch]

Carl,
I can't find another photo of MP Keays. He is a war veteran so I am betting on dental xrays on microfilm and another photo. The reporting agency seems very receptive to information AND they utilize and promote NamUS (see website). That always cuts time in explaining why the interest or how important it is the ME have certain pieces of info.
http://www.co.jackson.or.us/Page.asp?NavID=965

 

[Cubby]

LOL...We have little cooperation so we have to get 'creative'! I usually start with how excited I am that (the investigating officer) can bring closure to the family and solve a cold case at the same time and how thrilled he must be to be in a position to something so rewarding.....yadyaydayada. Only sometimes.... but worth it!

Great idea! Thanks for the tip! I will keep that in mind.

 

[CarlK90245]

The Dentals for this doe, IIRC, are listed at NamUs. Would that be good enough for Emily? Maybe contact LE for his missing persons case first and see if you can coordinate the info?

The dentals on the UID side are not the problem. We will just have to get them on the MP side. There should be no problem making contact with the Oregon officials, and getting them to forward the records to Kentucky.

My point was only that normally, I call the authorities on the UID side and then they coordinate it with LE on the MP side. In this instance, it will have to be initiated on the MP side, and we will need to find out what identifiers they have on Keays before contacting Emily (or letting Oregon do so).

I was not saying that it would be a problem doing it that way, only that this is the way that Emily operates.

 

[Mensch]

Been thinking about this image of the UP. I noticed on NamUS there is not even an estimate of weight or height. This is usually the case when only part of the bones are recovered and yet there is nothing checked on the body parts inventory. I realize he was badly decomposed but if it was so bad as to preclude height and weight then I would not trust the accuracy of a real life depiction of this UP, which of course would give question to any possible match on photo alone. Just thinking...

 

[Cubby]

Been thinking about this image of the UP. I noticed on NamUS there is not even an estimate of weight or height. This is usually the case when only part of the bones are recovered and yet there is nothing checked on the body parts inventory. I realize he was badly decomposed but if it was so bad as to preclude height and weight then I would not trust the accuracy of a real life depiction of this UP, which of course would give question to any possible match on photo alone. Just thinking...

Or it could be the UID side just wasn't thorough with the data entry. In general I think that happens sometimes.

 

[CarlK90245]

Been thinking about this image of the UP. I noticed on NamUS there is not even an estimate of weight or height. This is usually the case when only part of the bones are recovered and yet there is nothing checked on the body parts inventory. I realize he was badly decomposed but if it was so bad as to preclude height and weight then I would not trust the accuracy of a real life depiction of this UP, which of course would give question to any possible match on photo alone. Just thinking...

From the looks of the drawing, it appears to be taken directly from a postmortem photo. If it was a skeletal reconstruction, it would have been straight-on and a little more generic in appearance, and he would have had a neutral or smiling facial expression.

ETA: The dentals say that he was missing his four upper front incisors postmortem, so those were added in by the artist.

ETA: The postmortem interval indicates "weeks", but he was found in January in Kentucky, so his body may have been somewhat preserved by the cold weather.

 

[Mensch]

From the looks of the drawing, it appears to be taken directly from a postmortem photo. If it was a skeletal reconstruction, it would have been straight-on and a little more generic in appearance, and he would have had a neutral or smiling facial expression.

ETA: The dentals say that he was missing his four upper front incisors postmortem, so those were added in by the artist.

ETA: The postmortem interval indicates "weeks", but he was found in January in Kentucky, so his body may have been somewhat preserved by the cold weather.

OY! Our posts just crossed and I was going to say that perhaps the teeth were an accurate form of identification on the image. Apparently that is not so.
Anyway, here is a better pic than the one on NamUS but I really don't know what is going on with the ears. I don't think this can be an artist rendition unless showing possibilities.
Hope the pic helps.
http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=1948

 

[zinc]

Vital Statistics
Estimated age: 25 - 35 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'6"-5'7"; 125-140 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Curly, medium brown hair with a little gray on the temples; greatest length of hair was 8 inches. Brown eyes; light skinned with tanned arms.
Dentals: Available. Natural teeth with some fillings.

Hi all, from the old Doe Network posting, his estimated height and weight.

 

[Mensch]

Hi all, from the old Doe Network posting, his estimated height and weight.

Thank you Zinc! that is very helpful info.

 

[Cymro]

Hi all, from the old Doe Network posting, his estimated height and weight.

And, for what it's worth, the suggested match fits nicely into this very narrow range.

There's a six month and 2,400 mile difference to account for, of course, but investigators indicated that they believed the Doe was from out of area.

 

[CarlK90245]

I just spoke with a woman from the Jackson County OR Sheriff's office. She took down my number, and says that she will pass it on to one of the detectives.

She was very friendly, and grateful for the call-in. I mentioned that since there was no rule-out listing on the decedent available, I was not sure whether Keays had been looked at. She replied that it was no problem - "we are willing to look at anything".

 

[Cubby]

I just spoke with a woman from the Jackson County OR Sheriff's office. She took down my number, and says that she will pass it on to one of the detectives.

She was very friendly, and grateful for the call-in. I mentioned that since there was no rule-out listing on the decedent available, I was not sure whether Keays had been looked at. She replied that it was no problem - "we are willing to look at anything".

Excellent Carl! I am so glad you got such a positive response!

 

[CarlK90245]

I just received my callback from Detective Jim Tattersall of the Jackson County Sheriff's office. I gave him the NamUs case number, and explained to him the details of the Kentucky case.

He sounded a little skeptical because of the geography, saying that they think that Keays was murdered and buried locally. He had a drug history, so they are speculating that he ran into foul-play in the course of interactions with people in the drug trade.

However, as we talked, he admitted that they have no evidence to back up that theory, and he very well may have left the area. They did not have any evidence, such as blood at the scene to suggest that he was murdered and buried locally.

While he was on the phone, he was trying to look up the case in NamUs, but he was having computer troubles and was unable to access the site. He said that he will call me back when he is able to see the UID case file.

 

[CarlK90245]

An interesting thing just caught my attention. In Keays' photo, there is a blemish below his lower lip at the right corner of his mouth. If you blow up the reconstruction, there is a similar blemish in exactly the same place.

I called up Det Tattersall, and reported this to him. He didn't seem too impressed, as he had been in contact with the Kentucky authorities, and they say that his face had been "badly abused" and decomposed, so the facial reconstruction may not be accurate, and what looks like a mole is probably something else.

He also reiterated his belief that Keays is probably buried locally. He said "I looked back in the case file and the investigators all agree that he is probably buried somewhere nearby".

However, they have DNA on both Keyes and the UID, and they will go forward despite the doubts to positively confirm or rule-out.

I didn't argue with him, but I disagree with his theory that the mole on the UID is some inadvertent artist's brush stroke. It clearly looks like a blemish to me. The caption on the photo indicates "Artist's enhancement of autopsy photo". And you can see based on the skin texture which portions are enhancements and which portions are brush strokes and alterations.

ETA: it also appears (although not clear) that Keays has the same vertical scar on his lower lip next to the mole.

 

[CarlK90245]

Don't even tell me that this is not him. (or that those blemishes are a slip of the artist's brush).

 

[Mensch]

Don't even tell me that this is not him. (or that those blemishes are a slip of the artist's brush).

Well, I am not sure this is even open for discussion considering your last post, but here goes:
Can you post your enlarged photos side by side? I think tat will make viewing them in perspective much easier. Also, I see what yoiu are calling vertical "scars" on the MP but follow the line up and it appears to be an aritfact of having enlarged the photo to the point of loosing sharpness. I do not see the bottom blur being a mole and if so, it is not placed correctly to match the MP. Your arrows even show the difference. Also note that if you look directly to the left of your arrow on the bottom of the lip of the UP, there is another 'mark' exactly the same as the one you are point to. It would help to see them side by side. Blemishes can be the single most important comp0onent of identification and yet the most difficult to prove.

 

[Mensch]

I will be out for the evening but will check in later. Just wanted to mention, that if you invert your colors the true skin blemishes show up better and then you can start evaluating what might be an "image" anomaly.