GUILTY MI - Renisha McBride, 19, shot while trying to get help, Detroit, Nov 2013

[Sonya610]

I have not posted --- just reading but since I haven't seen anyone mention this; he had to take off the safety before he fired. It was not an accident or reflex. Both the state and the defense firearms experts talked about the safety

That is an excellent point! Did the prosecution bring that up?

If he thought the gun was unloaded and only intended to "scare someone" why take the safety off? Why mess with the safety at all? And who on earth would put the safety ON an unloaded firearm? He also mentioned taking the safety off when he told his story on the stand. Why even mention it?

In my mind that is probably the most damning evidence so far that he is lying about it being an "accident with a gun he thought was unloaded". I don't like the lying part, especially really blatant stupid lies.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

ocean - i agree about the prosecutor, i didnt like her style from the clips i saw and can imagine her losing a few of the jurors, twisting words/facts like you say, and when she talked about brain matter, the body..

regarding another post quoted above - she hit a parked car, and i dont think the accident was that far from his house, 1.5 to 2 miles iirc let me see if i can find that out for sure...

It was just blocks away I think but it took her three hours before she finally showed up on his door.

I respect that others don't like his demeanor when he testifies although I had no problem hearing him when they showed clips on HLN. Perception is individual and will be seen differently. But as for as myself, I just think this is how Wafer is most of the time. A laid back unassuming person. Months have passed since the event happened so he is not going to act like he did when it first occurred when he was probably stunned that the entire thing had happened.

And I am not sure he is lying. All of this happened in a millisecond as things like this always does. It is hard to recall every little detail when you think someone is breaking in your home and what you did step by step. I can understand why he doesn't even remember taking the safety off the gun or knowing for sure at that time if it was loaded or not. A person's mind is confused and go ninety miles a minute. They can do things and never realize they did it.

I think he will be convicted. From all I have read about Detroit jurors they pretty much convict in this type of situation whether the state proves the case or not which, I am not sure they have.

But the one thing that has nagged me is why was Renisha really there? Imo, it was not to seek help and have 911 called for her. She may have mistaken it for her mother's home but that is speculation too. The jury does not have an answer to that question. There has been no evidence that she came there wanting help so we will never know the reason why she came or why she was banging so hard on both of his doors that it made his house shake. All the evidence entered shows the opposite and showed Renisha was fleeing from everyone she came in contact with that wanted and tried to help her. That cant be denied.

And another thing I didn't like about the prosecutor she kept trying to trip him up that he knew Renisha was a female when he said over and over again he didn't know the gender of the person. And the big deal she made about Renisha being unarmed as if he was somehow to know that beforehand. I thought a lot of it was nonsense and most of what the prosecutor did wasn't facts but was drama trying to get the jury to hate Mr. Wafer.

When it comes down to it there is just no way I believe Mr. Wafer wanted to mow Renisha down for the hell of it like the prosecutor likes to imply. Of course he was mad. When we had our home invader 25 years ago I was more than mad. I was livid and scared all at the same time. I don't even remember taking the safety off of our shotgun but I did it. So him being mad that someone was banging on his home at 4:30 am in the morning is understandable to me especially when he thought they were trying to come into his home. And it is commonly known that anger and fear are very much alike in emotional responses.

And they bring in the part were LE ask him about prostitutes. All that was intended to do is try to dirty Mr. Wafer up in the eyes of the jury. That is playing dirty pool. Not one prostitute ever testified they ever visted Mr. Wafer because he was truthful about that IMO and he doesn't partake. Bringing that in was totally irrelevant.

I believe he was totally confused by being awoken out of a deep sleep and to this day he really doesn't know what happened and how he shot Renisha. When she came rushing from the right side and came right up at him he thought this person was going to try to come in his home. I will always believe he thought they were trying to gain entry to his home and that is why he protected himself. Not one person testified that Mr. Wafer was known as a violent person who goes off half-cocked (pardon the pun).

I also have to agree with him. Why in the world would a stranger be pounding so hard on someone's home at both doors in the middle of the night if they really were there to seek help?" They would knock at the front door and wait... giving time for the homeowner to get up out of dead sleep so they could come to the door. That will never make sense to me.

While I feel he will be convicted I consider him a victim in all of this as well. He was in his own home bothering no one just like he had done for many years while living there. Then a person (gender unknown to him at the time and 11 times the legal limit for someone under 21) shows up at his home and both lives are changed forever.

IMO

 

[islandmixed]

Yeah that part struck me as odd too. He definitely is NOT the type of man anyone would want helping during a crisis.

He hides, goes to the kitchen, holds a bat for a while while listening, then drops the bat and and slowly crawls to the bedroom because he thinks they might "see him", messes around with light switches so they etc... and then finally gets the shotgun.

That just makes no sense to me unless he "forgot" he had a shotgun in the house. Any reasonable person would have immediately raced to the bedroom and armed themselves before the "attacker/s" had a chance to break into the house.

I also don't understand the point of telling that part of the story UNLESS it was supposed to make him seem harmless and inept.

LOL yeah very odd. I mean imagine all that time he took, he could have found his phone, made that call and be done with it. But since i have never been in that situation, its easy for me to judge...in his defense, that's his way and did what he thought would be safer.

Another thing about this case that kills me, is the non verbal exchange between the two. He never shouted or hollered out, and she never said a thing...Its very very strange lol When my dad thinks i am home, he goes around the back, throws damn stones at my window and shouts my name...lol Y no verbal exchange

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[oceanblueeyes]

the purpose of the pistol grip is not so you can fire it like a handgun at all, and have you ever fired it? if you think it wont fly out of your hands if it goes off unexpectedly with buckshot in it you are mistaken. the people you are watching in these videos are expecting to shoot the gun right?

I probably worded it wrong liljim. Sorry. Yes, I have fired this type of gun many times. It has a pistol grip because with a regular stock butt the gun is raised to the shoulder for support and fired to absorb the recoil. A pistol gripped shotgun can be fired without shoulder support and can be shot holding the gun lower down in the mid section of the shooter like one does when firing a handgun.

That's what I meant to say.

 

[Sonya610]

Another thing about this case that kills me, is the non verbal exchange between the two. He never shouted or hollered out, and she never said a thing...Its very very strange lol When my dad thinks i am home, he goes around the back, throws damn stones at my window and shouts my name...lol Y no verbal exchange

I think the failure to verbalize falls on her NOT on him. Like Wafer I live alone, if someone tried to enter my home at night I would not feel the need to "talk to them" because no one I know would dare think of doing something like that.

Grant it I live in a rural area where most every household has an AR and no one wants to be mistaken as a home intruder so folks are very polite about announcing themselves from a distance to ensure they aren't mistaken as a threat.

I also think she was very angry that she wasn't being let into "her house" and that is why she kept banging so loudly (even alerting the neighbor across the street). I think she felt she had he right to DEMAND to be let in without announcing herself which imo is odd even if you live there!

 

[Sonya610]

Holy sheeshers...apparently we are missing a LOT by not getting to watch live footage!

First—and it’s hard to believe this even happened, but numerous eye witness accounts attest to it—shortly before ending the cross-examination for the day Assistant Prosecutor Aritha Siringas picked up Wafer’s shotgun and pointed it directly at the jury, finger on the trigger.

One assumes this was done through negligence, rather than intentionally—it would be most awkward to see Prosecutor Siringas bring charges against herself for fourteen counts of aggravated assault with a firearm.

Nevertheless, the jury was sufficiently alarmed by being swept by the shotgun’s muzzle that there were audible gasps, one jury was seen with her hands clasped to her face, and Judge Hathaway was compelled to call a sidebar and order Siringas to keep the muzzle of the shotgun pointed downward, thank you very much.

(Snip)

Siringas’ excuses were, well, about what you’d expect. First, that he was not the only person who had handled the shotgun during the trial, plenty of others had done so, too. To which Carpenter noted that none of those others had swept the muzzle over the jury.

Then Siringas argued that it didn’t matter because the shotgun was not loaded. The irony—delicious. Wafer, too, had testified that the shotgun was “not loaded”—until he discovered that it was indeed loaded when it made a loud noise and wreaked havoc on the head of Renisha McBride. For that “mistake” Siringas had just moments ago demanded that Wafer be charged with gross negligence and involuntary manslaughter.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/0...-front-porch-murder-trial-closings-wednesday/

FYI I didn't realize Andrew Branca (Lawyer that runs that site) was doing daily coverage of the case, this has to be one of the best sources out there!

 

[liljim]

yeah that was a pretty big deal yesterday, although it was brought up in court today and im pretty sure the judge sided with the prosecutor on every thing regarding that incident. although she did initially say that the gun could not be handled during closing but them relented.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I just followed all of the tweets from the defense closing argument and imo, she did very well.

The problem the state has they did not prove that Mr. Wafer wasn't in fear for his life, imo. All they really did was mock him.

This tweet was also a good point that I had never thought about until she said it. The Prosecutors did seem to convey it would have been just fine if Wafer had shot the person standing on his air conditioner.

idabwellsinstitute @idabeewells · 34s
DEF pointing out inconsistency of PROS statement, footprint found on ac unit, could've been someone
trying to break in w/ #RenishaMcBride, PROS witness says that's the person who Wafer should've shot; DEF says PROS allows
for that scenario, but not for the shooting of #RenishaMcBride who broke screen door.

 

[HauntsForHope]

All I can say is God Help Me, if someone was banging and trying to get into my home in the middle of the night. I would surely shoot them in fear.
... hmm, actually, IIRC there have been cases where someone shot through the door at a robber and it was dismissed. I need to look up that case.

 

[HauntsForHope]

"It's not a very far reach to assume that if someone's forcing their way into your residence early in the morning, they're not there to wish you well," Hester said. "That's your castle that a reported intruder is coming into, so whether he was armed or not armed, when he failed to retreat, they certainly had a right -- if it turns out this way -- would have a right to defend themselves."

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/25180118/2014/04/07/police-homeowner-shoots-burglar-dead

 

[ohiogirl]

Verdict Watch. I wonder how long they will be out? My estimation, late tomorrow afternoon. Just a guess.

 

[Simply Caustic]

I've stayed somewhat clear of this case - I'm a gun-owner, in Chicago, and although I'm in a safe neighborhood....I'm only miles from the murder and mayhem that ravages this beautiful city.
It's just me and my 8yo DS, and I'll tell ya: If someone came banging and trying the doors - or climbing on AC units - or any of it...I would grab my gun from it's locked safe. I would be armed as I called 911. And if they walked through that door, I would shoot. I just feel it's my job as a Mom, to a little boy who already lost his father too early, that I will protect him and myself, and our home.
It's tragic that Renisha died, and my heart breaks for her family. I wish with all my heart that she would've stayed at the scene of the accident, and been treated and released.
But I also feel for this man whose life is ruined because he was afraid, and protected himself. That's JMO, and it's hard to put yourself in their shoes, unless you live in a city/burbs ravaged with gun violence.
Prayers for all involved, and thanks for respecting my POV, as I respect all of yours, too
Love,
SC

 

[annalia]

I just followed all of the tweets from the defense closing argument and imo, she did very well.

The problem the state has they did not prove that Mr. Wafer wasn't in fear for his life, imo. All they really did was mock him.

This tweet was also a good point that I had never thought about until she said it. The Prosecutors did seem to convey it would have been just fine if Wafer had shot the person standing on his air conditioner.

idabwellsinstitute @idabeewells · 34s
DEF pointing out inconsistency of PROS statement, footprint found on ac unit, could've been someone
trying to break in w/ #RenishaMcBride, PROS witness says that's the person who Wafer should've shot; DEF says PROS allows
for that scenario, but not for the shooting of #RenishaMcBride who broke screen door.

How was it the prosecutor who conveyed it? I thought it was the officer who was being questioned on the stand who said that?

 

[ilovewings]

the issue in this case is what would a reasonable person do in the same or similar circumstance. So it is 4:30 am, you fall asleep on the couch and hear knocking at your door. you are scared. so what do you do? you freakin call the police don't you? I don't believe he couldn't find the cell because he found it pretty quick after he shot her. And if you are frightened do you open the only thing protecting you from a potential assailant, that being the door? I don't think so. I don't think he is an evil man but I do think he made a really bad decision and he should pay for it. I think manslaughter would be appropriate. I believe she was looking for help. I think after she crashed her car she wandered off and fell asleep somewhere for awhile and when she awoke she decided to look for help. why she picked his house is a mystery. did that house look like her mother's home? possibly. In any event she did not deserve to get blasted away because she knocked or banged on his door.

 

[tlcya]

thank you caustic one. I feel that rather than fear there was anger, frustration, and a bit of I will show those A-holes that I am not to be messed with in this case but I do respect that many others hold another POV and theirs is just as valid as mine.

I live in what is considered a rougher neighborhood but not the worst in my town by far. I must say, if someone attempted to get into my home I would protect my children, my animals and my home. No question.

But this case and several other recent self defense, castle domain, etc case of national attention, have made me really examine my own emotions about what would be coursing through me at such a moment in varying circumstances similar to those of the recent cases.

I am learning about myself in that I am realizing that before those cases, I might have a bit of what I think the defendant may have felt. A certain fed up anger and resentment. Now, after seeing these cases play out and examining my own feelings, I think if NOW someone were to attempt to gain entry I would indeed do things differently than I think I would have before them.

Just some thoughts that I have been turning around in my own head about why I feel so strongly about these recent cases and how I feel my thought process has been evolving thanks to them.

 

[lonetraveler]

Been following this case but haven't posted very much. I'm a bit torn on this one. One thing that really bothers me is why didn't he shout out through the door and ask who was there? It just seems odd to me that he did not ask who was at the door before opening it. If he had shouted out "Who is there?" and if she had answered and he did not like the answer he could have then shouted out that he had a shotgun and would shoot if she did not leave his door.

I commented earlier that I did not care for his monotone way of talking. That however does not factor into his guilt or innocence. From his own account of what happened that night I feel that he was paranoid and did not have a just cause to pull that trigger. He could have just not opened the door. I do believe that he acted in a reckless manner resulting in the young woman's death. That said, I do not think that he will be found guilty of anything unless it is manslaughter.

 

[islandmixed]

thank you caustic one. I feel that rather than fear there was anger, frustration, and a bit of I will show those A-holes that I am not to be messed with in this case but I do respect that many others hold another POV and theirs is just as valid as mine.

I live in what is considered a rougher neighborhood but not the worst in my town by far. I must say, if someone attempted to get into my home I would protect my children, my animals and my home. No question.

But this case and several other recent self defense, castle domain, etc case of national attention, have made me really examine my own emotions about what would be coursing through me at such a moment in varying circumstances similar to those of the recent cases.

I am learning about myself in that I am realizing that before those cases, I might have a bit of what I think the defendant may have felt. A certain fed up anger and resentment. Now, after seeing these cases play out and examining my own feelings, I think if NOW someone were to attempt to gain entry I would indeed do things differently than I think I would have before them.

Just some thoughts that I have been turning around in my own head about why I feel so strongly about these recent cases and how I feel my thought process has been evolving thanks to them.

Applause, very very very honest of you to say this. Sometimes we have to hold our mouths, i sure do, as I hate to offend others. But as I say. Those who see what I see, see it, those who don't, then you just don't, it's okay!!

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[islandmixed]

I think the failure to verbalize falls on her NOT on him. Like Wafer I live alone, if someone tried to enter my home at night I would not feel the need to "talk to them" because no one I know would dare think of doing something like that.

Grant it I live in a rural area where most every household has an AR and no one wants to be mistaken as a home intruder so folks are very polite about announcing themselves from a distance to ensure they aren't mistaken as a threat.

I also think she was very angry that she wasn't being let into "her house" and that is why she kept banging so loudly (even alerting the neighbor across the street). I think she felt she had he right to DEMAND to be let in without announcing herself which imo is odd even if you live there!

No no no, I mean him shouting something along the lines of, who are you, go away, I am calling the feds etc. Anything to scare her off. I never heard him say anything to her when he testified. Which again makes me believe, you really was not scarred. Rather, you wanted that control.

As for her, same thing, if she thought she lived there, shout for your mom, brother etc. Very weird. And mind you, we are going by what he said only right? Nobody else seemed to hear a thing, so do we believe that no verbal exchange took place. I just do not know but it's weird on both parties to me.

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[tlcya]

Yes. Control. He wanted to re exert control over what he felt was his shrinking space from annoyance, vandalism, peaceful enjoyment of his own domicile, etc. That is simply MOO.

As I said, I can see myself having those same emotions prior to watching these cases recently playing out in the press, based on previous experiences and judgments I might come to based on those experiences.

I actually am very thankful that cases such as this have gotten national attention. They have caused me to really look at my own views. The PC ones I geniunely feel. The way I wish things would be or hope I can be, strive towards. And the darker more experience driven ones, that would probably have driven my reactions prior to that examination thanks to this and other recent cases of citizens shot by other citizens.

I hope I do not offend anyone with these thoughts. Just trying to explain why my POV on this one is where it is. I think this man used excessive force in a situation where it was not needed. He may have been scared, mad, or a combination but I feel he made wrong decisions that were not called for and took a life. I feel those actions and decisions were to reasonable and therefore cannot arrive at feeling this was accident or self defense.

 

[ckrdpast]

I've stayed somewhat clear of this case - I'm a gun-owner, in Chicago, and although I'm in a safe neighborhood....I'm only miles from the murder and mayhem that ravages this beautiful city.
It's just me and my 8yo DS, and I'll tell ya: If someone came banging and trying the doors - or climbing on AC units - or any of it...I would grab my gun from it's locked safe. I would be armed as I called 911. And if they walked through that door, I would shoot. I just feel it's my job as a Mom, to a little boy who already lost his father too early, that I will protect him and myself, and our home.
It's tragic that Renisha died, and my heart breaks for her family. I wish with all my heart that she would've stayed at the scene of the accident, and been treated and released.
But I also feel for this man whose life is ruined because he was afraid, and protected himself. That's JMO, and it's hard to put yourself in their shoes, unless you live in a city/burbs ravaged with gun violence.
Prayers for all involved, and thanks for respecting my POV, as I respect all of yours, too
Love,
SC

BBM
This is what a reasonable person would do. Wafer did NOT call 911 until after the shooting. And Renisha did NOT enter his house. Wafers actions were NOT reasonable, IMO.