MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83

[Dr.Strangelove]

Also, about the killer being local, the house was right next to the Delmar loop, which at least now is a very popular shopping area. Its also off of 1-70 which is a major highway. Could have been someone pulling off of 1-70 and driving around until they found a place to dump her.

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[Roselvr]

From research I've done, that area was blighted at that time, with abandoned buildings. Somewhere up thread, locals have posted that the area was kind of a dividing line between a "good" area & a "not so good" area. I find this interesting:

"DNA testing confirmed the profile St. Louis experts already had, but the mineral tests, or stable isotope analysis, revealed the child probably spent most of, if not all of, her life in one of 10 southeastern states: Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, Texas, Tennessee and the Carolinas."

Snipped. Full article: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_36de5a5c-b615-5292-b5aa-abb99a888a6c.html

I've thought for a long time that somehow that little girl made it to STL shortly before her death. LE was pretty thorough investigating in and around the STL area. My theory is that this little girl' parent(s) died and she was awarded to her next of kin (bio dad, older brother, uncle, etc) and that person is the perp. Nobody from her home area would know she was missing and nobody in STL would realize she was there to miss her.

Thoughts?

I'm on my cell so I have to do 2 posts. This is the original isotope results which got changed

 

[Roselvr]

At some point the Smithsonian redid her isotope testing to get different states, I haven't had a chance to look for an article but it's on her Doe net page. They did the same thing to another Jane Doe I follow. I am clueless how it goes from South to North.

Full Anthropology exam and isotope analysis completed by NCMEC and the Smithsonian. Advanced forensic testing of her bones has also suggested that the female was not originally from the local St. Louis area but possibly spent most of her childhood in the following states: Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Indiana, and West Virginia.

New results

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

New results

Thank you! I hadn't seen this update. So she was likely more northern

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[WyomingSkyAngel]

Forgive me if this has been suggested but could it be possible this girl was killed as an act of revenge between blood relatives? Maybe the head was removed with the idea of ensuring no identification but leaving open the possibility of proving the death to someone known to the killer. (As sick as it sounds some people are that evil.) If some of this girl's extended family members are aware of family problems that were followed by her going missing with a flimsy excuse, she could be identified.


edit to add- the mid-80s were the peak of the crack cocaine epidemic in America. It could be as simple as the victim being an unwanted child of addicts, exposed to harm because of that....& who ever took advantage of that situation took extra measures to avoid getting caught. "Crackhead" revenge is pretty ugly. The girl's parents might have been transient/ died not long after she did, resulting in no missing persons report.

 

[LittleHomemaker]

I agree that the best chance for this poor girl to get her name back is through a classmate or old friend. I did have a few thoughts that I didn't see mentioned on here, and if they were and I just missed them, sorry!

1- What if her isotopes results are pinging two areas because she moved? My grandmother moved back and forth from Tennessee and Michigan for most of her childhood. I imagine that could create confusing results? I don't know about the 70s and early 80s, but in the 50s, a lot of people moved North for jobs.

2- Maybe she was decapitated because of an easily identifying feature. A birthmark, for example. Maybe a scar?

 

[Roselvr]

I agree that the best chance for this poor girl to get her name back is through a classmate or old friend. I did have a few thoughts that I didn't see mentioned on here, and if they were and I just missed them, sorry!

1- What if her isotopes results are pinging two areas because she moved? My grandmother moved back and forth from Tennessee and Michigan for most of her childhood. I imagine that could create confusing results? I don't know about the 70s and early 80s, but in the 50s, a lot of people moved North for jobs.

2- Maybe she was decapitated because of an easily identifying feature. A birthmark, for example. Maybe a scar?

I can't explain why there are 2 different isotope areas, we are told the original is trash, she belongs to the new results.

She was decapitated probably to make it harder to ID her.

 

[LittleHomemaker]

I can't explain why there are 2 different isotope areas, we are told the original is trash, she belongs to the new results.

She was decapitated probably to make it harder to ID her.

That's odd. I contacted the Doe Network over summer to ask about the results, and mentioned the local article saying she was from a southern state. The woman checked and emailed me back saying the newspaper article was correct, and added that in. Not saying you're wrong! Seems even they aren't really sure what's going on there.

I just wonder if there was something that really stood out. I can't fathom doing that at all, but especially if she had a fairly average face and teeth. Of course by now, her head is unlikely to show distinctive superficial features. It just breaks my heart this girl is unknown, and there's so many possibilities on why she appears to have not been reported missing.

 

[Sierras]

Someone somewhere has to be missing this precious little girl. Someone somewhere has to be wondering what happened to her.

 

[Alleykins]

My take on this case is that the JD either hasn't been reported, or perhaps she had been reported but went missing years before and was kept all that time until she was killed.
I found one possibility, not sure if she's been suggested before.
Kelly Staples went missing in 1980 at age six from Chicago. It's not quite the isotope area, but close. She would have been in the target age range at the time the body was found. https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/2893/44
She doesn't have DNA, dental records or fingerprints available.
She doesn't appear on the rule out list.

 

[Earth]

I watched it on Investigation Discovery, he was gonna kill him not long after he took Shawn, but again your right, he said once the other boy was taken he knew his time was close. The way he described it was what do you do with your old car once you get a new one. I cried through the whole documentary, truly heart wrenching.

Maybe that's what happened with this girl.

I think that either her parents killed her or it was like the Suzanne Sevakis case when only one parent had custody. Remember, this is 1980s St. Louis. The courts would just ignore a black custody battle and go with the simplest option. Maybe it was a killer. What interests me is she was probably eleven - the age that puberty can begin. Her killer could have decided to kill her once she reached puberty, if he was holding her.

Either way, I think something on her lower chin or neck could have stood out. A cleft palate or maybe she had something inserted in her neck because of breathing problems. I heard something when I was small about a boy who had to have an operation in his neck because he smoked so much and there was a hole in his neck to help him breathe.

 

[Jigoku Dayu]

As with most unreported and unidentified children, I believe family members were responsible. If she were identified, they would be easily linked to the crime, hence the decapitation. And it's a lot easier to hide just a head where no one will find it than a whole body.

 

[Roselvr]

That's odd. I contacted the Doe Network over summer to ask about the results, and mentioned the local article saying she was from a southern state. The woman checked and emailed me back saying the newspaper article was correct, and added that in. Not saying you're wrong! Seems even they aren't really sure what's going on there.

I just wonder if there was something that really stood out. I can't fathom doing that at all, but especially if she had a fairly average face and teeth. Of course by now, her head is unlikely to show distinctive superficial features. It just breaks my heart this girl is unknown, and there's so many possibilities on why she appears to have not been reported missing.

I spoke to someone from doe net too who said the info they have is correct

 

[questfortruth311]

Has it ever been considered that Alton Coleman could be responsible for saint louis jane doe?
Normally Alton Coleman is not mentioned without Debra Brown, however, he had been in prison for the rape of a 14 year old girl prior top meeting her.
saint louis jane doe is said to not be from saint louis, Alton Coleman is known to take a child and travel the body across state lines, he was known to rape and strangle children of saint louis jane does age. she would also not be the only one found in a abandon building at least 200 miles from home, for example, Vernita Wheat was 9 years old from Wisconsin, Coleman raped and strangled her and left her body in a abandon building in Illinois. Vernita was found less than a year after the saint louis jane doe. he was also known to travel to southern states where it is presumed saint louis jane doe was from. Coleman killed other young girls in many different states, to me, everything about the saint louis jane doe case is telling me he was who killed her. it bothers me that even if he would have admitted this, and was willing to tell who she is, he is dead and I fear that her secret of her identity died with Coleman.

 

[Earth]

New results

I think she's one of these two girls or was never reported missing.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/magee_sherise.html - Sherise Magee, 20m, abducted by a family member from Las Vegas, NV, on August 1st 1975. Because she was quite young, she may have spent most of her life in one of the mentioned states. I have no idea which family member could have taken her, though.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/good_telethia.html - Telethia Goode, 7, disappeared while going to church on September 10th 1978 in Baltimore, MD. Maryland is close to West Virginia enough to show up as said state on isotopes.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I feel very strongly she is Telethia Goode. I tried to turn that match in a while ago and I have never heard anything back.Have they looked into Telethia Goode?

I think she's one of these two girls or was never reported missing.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/magee_sherise.html - Sherise Magee, 20m, abducted by a family member from Las Vegas, NV, on August 1st 1975. Because she was quite young, she may have spent most of her life in one of the mentioned states. I have no idea which family member could have taken her, though.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/good_telethia.html - Telethia Goode, 7, disappeared while going to church on September 10th 1978 in Baltimore, MD. Maryland is close to West Virginia enough to show up as said state on isotopes.

 

[Halibut]

Regarding isotope analysis and identifying political nationality (rather then race): isotope analysis is a broad science and is only as good as the data it's compared to and using other leads to support or reject claims. Before Karlie Peace Stevenson was formally identified the results from isotope analysis suggested she was not from Australia, and although her dental work was in tact the style also suggested a style not typical of Australian dentistry. In fact she had spent all of her life in Australia but in a less populated area far from where she was discovered with a very different climate and soil. Worth mentioning as this clues can throw sluethers off track. I'm not sure what measure they used to determine what states they presume she was from but if they can get continent of origin incorrect in Karlies case they could in this little Does case, too. References to the testing is in old posts in Karlie Pearce Stevensons WS thread when she was known as Belanglo Angel.

....She and her daughter were not reported missing as someone had assumed their identity and had even convinced family they did not want to be contacted.

Also worth mentioning the prepubescent changes happen earlier for afro American girls then caucasians (and the rate of this has also changed over the last century due to nutrition which may be why reference to her health is important, too) Overall puberty can take anywhere from 2-6 years from onset. Bone age can also vary depending on many factors, especially onset of early puberty and how it is interpreted ie through paediatric forensics with reference to race, etc. All these factors may just widen the parameters of matching missing girls to this little Doe.

For light reading: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/04/why-is-puberty-starting-younger-precocious

And a more detailed summary: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11928882

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[Halibut]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/54ufmo.html

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/6865/jd.html

On the morning of February 28, 1983, two men were rummaging through the basement of an abandoned apartment building at 5635 Clemens Avenue in St. Louis. They made a gruesome discovery, the body of a young black girl, between 8-11 years old. Her hands had been tied behind her and she was sexually assaulted and then strangled. After death, she was decapitated with a long, heavy knife. Her head was never discovered, and she remains unidentified to this day.

This case has always disturbed me. You'd think, someone that young, someone somewhere would be missing them, or know who they are.

The link to the Doe Network originally posted by Dexter back in 2005 has reported this little Doe has Spina Bifida. It potentially sounds like the mild form but a significant fact as she may have had physical and/or learning if not intellectual difficulties. Socio status would be significant as people with disability were often not as accepted in mainstream culture or included in family day to day activities. Often (but not always) children with special needs were adopted out or sent to specialist schools. (Not meaning to offend anyone. It's a harsh reality of our lived culture in decades past, close to my heart)

Significant is the fact that kids with spina bifida often experience precocious puberty. She could be in fact as young as 8 with curves. I knew there was something that jumped out here.

http://spinabifidaassociation.org/project/precocious-puberty/

Regarding isotope analysis and identifying political nationality (rather then race): isotope analysis is a broad science and is only as good as the data it's compared to and using other leads to support or reject claims. Before Karlie Peace Stevenson was formally identified the results from isotope analysis suggested she was not from Australia, and although her dental work was in tact the style also suggested a style not typical of Australian dentistry. In fact she had spent all of her life in Australia but in a less populated area far from where she was discovered with a very different climate and soil. Worth mentioning as this clues can throw sluethers off track. I'm not sure what measure they used to determine what states they presume she was from but if they can get continent of origin incorrect in Karlies case they could in this little Does case, too. References to the testing is in old posts in Karlie Pearce Stevensons WS thread when she was known as Belanglo Angel.

....She and her daughter were not reported missing as someone had assumed their identity and had even convinced family they did not want to be contacted.

Also worth mentioning the prepubescent changes happen earlier for afro American girls then caucasians (and the rate of this has also changed over the last century due to nutrition which may be why reference to her health is important, too) Overall puberty can take anywhere from 2-6 years from onset. Bone age can also vary depending on many factors, especially onset of early puberty and how it is interpreted ie through paediatric forensics with reference to race, etc. All these factors may just widen the parameters of matching missing girls to this little Doe.

For light reading: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/04/why-is-puberty-starting-younger-precocious

And a more detailed summary: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11928882

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[Jigoku Dayu]

She had not started puberty yet, she was simply tall for her age. (That's how LE initially realized she was still a child. They only thought she was older due to her height.) And she had spina bifida occulta, the mildest form. It's often asymptomatic and many people with spina bifida occulta don't even know they have it. Diagnosis usually occurs when the patient is x-rayed for an entirely different medical reason.

 

[Halibut]

She had not started puberty yet, she was simply tall for her age. And she had spina bifida occulta, the mildest form. It's often asymptomatic and many people with spina bifida occulta don't even know they have it. Diagnosis usually occurs when the patient is x-rayed for an entirely different medical reason.

Often undetected until an x-ray, but not always and we don't know if it was known or not.
It's all if, buts and a maybe. Not saying she had serious disabilities....but could have. It's worth considering, particularly IF she looked older but acted younger due to real age and/or potential intellectual disabilities. She has no one to quantify who she really is, describe her in any other way but through what facts we have.

Precocious puberty can alter bone age scans, usually based on how joints in hands are fused, a process triggered by pituitary responses undetecible to the eye. Puberty doesn't come on as a sudden flurry of hair and obvious development but there was reference by many others to her curves and height, which are often the first indictors of development, height particularly.

This doe has spina bifida and is Afro American - two factors that already put her in predisposition of precious puberty so it's a strong maybe and could alter perceptions of "who" we should be looking for.

We've just got to keep turning over stones until we find her name and reunite her with it.





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