Murder Charges

[cluciano63]

Am I the only one left who thinks it is highly possible this wasn't planned at all? I mean, we don't really know anything about SM at all, so maybe he really is a sick puppy, but we have nothing to show that. TM on the other hand, really appears, to me, to be over the top, and if she was being fueled by liquor/drugs on top of her already raging jealousy, I don't know what she might be capable of. But, IMO, at this point, to me, I don't feel strongly that it was planned, either before this night, or even on the night it happened. So, it's hard for me to believe these are two people, who have never really done anything terrible, to our knowledge, up to this point, and suddenly, they are plotting together to commit murder. Not saying it couldn't have happened, or that it's never happened before, but it just doesn't sit right with me. I still believe it definitely could have been a case of TM following SM, and the situation getting out of control. As cluciano has noted several times, there are no degrees of murder in SC (or something like that) so if he was there, unless there was compelling evidence that he didn't try to stop it, I could see them both being charged, even if it had been something that hadn't started out as it ended up.

I agree, since premeditation can be any amount of time, and does not equal pre-planned. Lol I just saw you mentioned me, that is not why I was agreeing. Also since SC does not seem to have degrees of murder or of culpability, charging them equally would make sense, as you say I say, lol...

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I'm trying to imagine this hypothetical call by SM (and assuming he and HE have not spoken for several weeks)

"Hi Heather. I know we haven't really talked lately, and here I am calling you, but please stop calling me!" "I mean it, stop calling!"

I'm going to assume that anyone who thinks Sidney told Heather to leave him alone, thinks that Heather tried to contact him after 11/5. There are ways to talk to someone that wouldn't be on record, such as in person.

 

[OkieGranny]

Yes, I know, but, something about the reason Sidney gave for calling Heather sticks in my mind. I think it's possible he did call with the intention of telling her to leave him alone. To me, that and an indifferent attitude are both logical explanations for Heather being upset. In any type situation, all the phone calls that morning seem a little excessive to me. The fact most were not answered speaks voumes to me. And no, I'm not saying BW was not telling the truth. Perhaps for some reason she was told Sidney was leaving his wife. :loser:

IMO

The last call Heather made to SM's phone that was answered was at 3:17 am, when location data indicated her phone was still at her apartment. She arrived at PTL at 3:38am and then made four more calls to SM's phone that were not answered. My take on that is maybe she expected SM to already be there when she arrived, so she was calling to make sure he was on his way and/or nothing had gone wrong with their plan to meet, and it worried her that he didn't answer so she kept trying.

I think the reason those last four calls were not answered is because either a) the phone was left at the M house while the Ms drove to PTL, or b) because they were only minutes away from PTL at that point and didn't feel the need to speak to Heather again until they were face to face with her.

So that's a possible explanation for nearly half of the nine or ten "excessive" calls that Heather made that night.

 

[ISWMLE]

Yes, I know, but, something about the reason Sidney gave for calling Heather sticks in my mind. I think it's possible he did call with the intention of telling her to leave him alone. To me, that and an indifferent attitude are both logical explanations for Heather being upset. In any type situation, all the phone calls that morning seem a little excessive to me. The fact most were not answered speaks voumes to me. And no, I'm not saying BW was not telling the truth. Perhaps for some reason she was told Sidney was leaving his wife. :loser:

IMO

BBM - if they had no communication between Nov 5 and Dec 17, why would SM call with the intention to tell Heather to leave him alone? she had already moved on

 

[Madeleine74]

Heather told her roommate (allegedly) that SM told her he was leaving his wife. I don't think Heather was lying about this. I think that is what she was told. It may be a complete fabrication by SM to lure her out. On its face value I do believe that's what she was told.

 

[ISWMLE]

I'm trying to imagine this hypothetical call by SM (and assuming he and HE have not spoken for several weeks)

"Hi Heather. I know we haven't really talked lately, and here I am calling you, but please stop calling me!" "I mean it, stop calling!"

right, so we have to get into Heather's mind as to why she would leave her home and go to PTL

he apologizes for the sexts that TM sent, which was stated in court were sent by TM, he hates that this wife is harassing Heather, and is embarrassed by it,

he spend two weeks on a trip, to appease his wife, he is not in love with her anymore, he wants out

i think whether he meant it or not, Heather is young and vulnerable, but not so that she didn't leave her home at the first phone call to meet him at the pay phone or somewhere else,

then all she knows is that she feels bad, or maybe still has feelings for him so she tries to call him back at the pay phone, thinking he may still be there

from whatever he told her, she did not think at first he would be back home but at the pay phone...he must have went home with his tail between his legs, thinking he had no choice but to be with his wife...

i am in no way excusing him, i'm trying to figure out what would lead Heather to finally meet him at PTL...4 minutes each phone call is a long time, and i do believe those were two very DIFFERENT calls

 

[magnolia]

I'm going to assume that anyone who thinks Sidney told Heather to leave him alone, thinks that Heather tried to contact him after 11/5. There are ways to talk to someone that wouldn't be on record, such as in person.

You assumed right.

 

[ISWMLE]

The last call Heather made to SM's phone that was answered was at 3:17 am, when location data indicated her phone was still at her apartment. She arrived at PTL at 3:38am and then made four more calls to SM's phone that were not answered. My take on that is maybe she expected SM to already be there when she arrived, so she was calling to make sure he was on his way and/or nothing had gone wrong with their plan to meet, and it worried her that he didn't answer so she kept trying.

I think the reason those last four calls were not answered is because either a) the phone was left at the M house while the Ms drove to PTL, or b) because they were only minutes away from PTL at that point and didn't feel the need to speak to Heather again until they were face to face with her.

So that's a possible explanation for nearly half of the nine or ten "excessive" calls that Heather made that night.

or if you are SM's attorney, SM was cuffed to the bed so he could not answer the phone and that would imply that Tammy went to PTL by herself...hmmmm

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm not comfortable trying to imagine or guess at conversations. It's not like I'm going to get confirmation of the correct answer. I'm okay with looking at the resulting actions and going from there; that's the best I'm going to get in terms of information anyway.

 

[magnolia]

The last call Heather made to SM's phone that was answered was at 3:17 am, when location data indicated her phone was still at her apartment. She arrived at PTL at 3:38am and then made four more calls to SM's phone that were not answered. My take on that is maybe she expected SM to already be there when she arrived, so she was calling to make sure he was on his way and/or nothing had gone wrong with their plan to meet, and it worried her that he didn't answer so she kept trying.

I think the reason those last four calls were not answered is because either a) the phone was left at the M house while the Ms drove to PTL, or b) because they were only minutes away from PTL at that point and didn't feel the need to speak to Heather again until they were face to face with her.

So that's a possible explanation for nearly half of the nine or ten "excessive" calls that Heather made that night.

BBM -Perhaps she was concerned he was not going to meet her period.

 

[Koshka]

I'm trying to imagine this hypothetical call by SM (and assuming he and HE have not spoken for several weeks)

"Hi Heather. I know we haven't really talked lately, and here I am calling you, but please stop calling me!" "I mean it, stop calling!"

I'm trying to imagine a phone call for this purpose taking place at 1:35 a.m. Why then?

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm trying to imagine a phone call for this purpose taking place at 1:35 a.m. Why then?

Let's go with what HE's roommate has said, which is all we know at this point. SM calls HE for whatever reason and tells her he's "leaving his wife." This is either true or untrue. If it's true then he wants to tell her. If it's not true then it's obviously for the purpose of getting her guard down so he can sweet talk and lure her out.

Whatever the reason is, it will never be good enough for some; only SM or TM can say why then, why that day, why that phonecall, why kill Heather if she had stepped out of their lives. We'll never know exactly why for any of these and many other questions unless they decide to tell us. I wouldn't hold my breath on that. It will never make sense because we don't know what they were thinking and why they were thinking it. Murder is not logical.

Bottomline: no one here can possibly know the answers to these questions and certainly not at this time. The questions can be asked over and over and over in a thousand different ways, but there will be no answers forthcoming because the answers lay entirely with the Moorers.

 

[Surfside]

Am I the only one left who thinks it is highly possible this wasn't planned at all? I mean, we don't really know anything about SM at all, so maybe he really is a sick puppy, but we have nothing to show that. TM on the other hand, really appears, to me, to be over the top, and if she was being fueled by liquor/drugs on top of her already raging jealousy, I don't know what she might be capable of. But, IMO, at this point, to me, I don't feel strongly that it was planned, either before this night, or even on the night it happened. So, it's hard for me to believe these are two people, who have never really done anything terrible, to our knowledge, up to this point, and suddenly, they are plotting together to commit murder. Not saying it couldn't have happened, or that it's never happened before, but it just doesn't sit right with me. I still believe it definitely could have been a case of TM following SM, and the situation getting out of control. As cluciano has noted several times, there are no degrees of murder in SC (or something like that) so if he was there, unless there was compelling evidence that he didn't try to stop it, I could see them both being charged, even if it had been something that hadn't started out as it ended up.

BBM: Nope. I'm right there with ya.

 

[Surfside]

The last call Heather made to SM's phone that was answered was at 3:17 am, when location data indicated her phone was still at her apartment. She arrived at PTL at 3:38am and then made four more calls to SM's phone that were not answered. My take on that is maybe she expected SM to already be there when she arrived, so she was calling to make sure he was on his way and/or nothing had gone wrong with their plan to meet, and it worried her that he didn't answer so she kept trying.

RSBM & BBM: Or maybe wondering if she should just leave.

 

[Madeleine74]

Or as simple as, "Hi I'm here." except he wasn't answering the phone for whatever reason. So she keeps calling because she wants to let him know she has arrived.

Seems straightforward to me. That's what I'd do, that's what I think most people would do.

 

[Surfside]

Or as simple as, "Hi I'm here." except he wasn't answering the phone for whatever reason. So she keeps calling because she wants to let him know she has arrived.

Seems straightforward to me. That's what I'd do, that's what I think most people would do.

Especially that time of night.

 

[magnolia]

Am I the only one left who thinks it is highly possible this wasn't planned at all? I mean, we don't really know anything about SM at all, so maybe he really is a sick puppy, but we have nothing to show that. TM on the other hand, really appears, to me, to be over the top, and if she was being fueled by liquor/drugs on top of her already raging jealousy, I don't know what she might be capable of. But, IMO, at this point, to me, I don't feel strongly that it was planned, either before this night, or even on the night it happened. So, it's hard for me to believe these are two people, who have never really done anything terrible, to our knowledge, up to this point, and suddenly, they are plotting together to commit murder. Not saying it couldn't have happened, or that it's never happened before, but it just doesn't sit right with me. I still believe it definitely could have been a case of TM following SM, and the situation getting out of control. As cluciano has noted several times, there are no degrees of murder in SC (or something like that) so if he was there, unless there was compelling evidence that he didn't try to stop it, I could see them both being charged, even if it had been something that hadn't started out as it ended up.

BBM - Nope, you are not the only one.

 

[magnolia]

I'm trying to imagine this hypothetical call by SM (and assuming he and HE have not spoken for several weeks)

"Hi Heather. I know we haven't really talked lately, and here I am calling you, but please stop calling me!" "I mean it, stop calling!"

Assuming Sidney and Heather had not spoken since October (month relationship was said to have ended), I'm trying to imagine an out of the blue phone call telling Heather he was leaving his wife. Same "Hi Heather". Just replace the haven't talked lately with in two months and the please stop calling me with....I'm leaving my wife.

 

[ISWMLE]

Assuming Sidney and Heather had not spoken since October (month relationship was said to have ended), I'm trying to imagine an out of the blue phone call telling Heather he was leaving his wife. Same "Hi Heather". Just replace the haven't talked lately with in two months and the please stop calling me with....I'm leaving my wife.

take a few steps back, associate the phone call with the sexts send to Heather from TM...that, imo, could have prompted him to make the phone call to Heather

i base that on no phone calls, text, etc from the M's since Nov 5...

 

[Madeleine74]

We don't know what time the sexts were sent. We don't even know the specific day (day before? day off? sometime before that?). Piecing together anything between IE texts and subsequent calls is impossible because there's nothing that lines all of it up for us right now and we do not have the information. You could make up 1,000 different permutations of possibilities. There's only 1 correct sequence but this will remain unknown until, at least, trial, and possibly be unknown forever exactly how each thing went down. There's a great need to know what happened minute-by-minute, where each person stood, what each person said, the look on their face, the inflection in their voice. We'll never know that.

Back to the subject of this particular thread (the murder charges). Those charges IMO are not going to be dropped. Whether some kind of "deal" is negotiated later is anyone's guess and we won't know that either until it's a fait accompli. LE has drawn the line in the sand. The charges are real and they are sticking right now.