musings on Hailey- have any?

[For The Kids]

Billie has alos said that Hailey and Clint were VERY close especially after the seperation. I am sure her parents know how close she was to her father more than we do. Incidentally has it been confirmed by her family about her staying with the other people?

 

[katydid23]

If he had been working hard the previous couple of days, that might be believable, but he hadn't been. It was the first work day after the christmas holidays.

People have said that she was close to her father, meaning that she wasn't distant. Obsessively close is a different thing. In his interviews CD has portrayed himself as obsesively close, but there is nothing to indicate that HD behaved the same way. What we do know is that HD spent a lot of time at CDs house to play with the baby. We also know that there was a period in HD's life where she was living with friends of the family, not HD or CD. What was the deal with that? If the parents were separated, and she was as close as everyone thinks, then surely issues in one household would mean that she would go and live with the other for a period.

As far as abuse allegations, if she was so afraid of telling her father (no evidence of that) for fear of him getting hurt, then why tell the grandmother? And why would the grandmother not tell the father? She wouldn't be afraid and apparently was not. She claimed that that they were trying to get HD out of there, but CD didn't seem to know anything about that. That whole story simply doesnt add up, IMO the allegations of abuse were made up by the GM. If the GM's allegations are true, then it implies that the relationship between CD and HD wasn't nearly as close that everyone thinks, and the GM was well aware of that. She just can't say it now that HD is missing.

I don't doubt that HD didn't like SA, she would have seen him as an intruder in her family and it would have taken her a long time to come to terms with it, but beyond that, I think the GM just extrapolated and exaggerated.

You can't have it both ways, the inconsistancy means that it is one way or the other.

You are conveniently ignoring the past violence involving Shawn and the 911 calls. Is that all a hoax and exaggeration too? Billie called the cops and asked them to protect her from her raging boyfriend. And DD was present for the fight between SA and Clint, IIRC. Why would he lie or exaggerate that?

And when did HD ever say she was abused by SA ? That is not what she told her GM. She said she felt afraid because she thought he was lurking outside her bedroom door. And Maybe she did mention something along those lines to Clint. He was on pain meds and lots of pot so he probably did not retain that info.

And they WERE trying to get Hailey moved in with Clint. So how do you know how close their relationship was or wasn't?

During the time she was living with a family friend Clint was about to have a new baby. She was probably hurt and upset by that. It doesn't mean they were not close. Quite the opposite. The parents were in the middle of a divorce. Kids often flee the scene during that emotional drama. Just because she did not move in with her dad then it does not mean they were not close.

Statistically, Shawn is a much more likely candidate for the perp than Clint is. imo.

 

[Tugela]

That's not true. If a woman is receiving housing aid because of her kids, and they find out a man is living there, she can be evicted. They sometimes warn her first and give her the chance to rectify the situation. All that can happen in one short day.

How do you know he left because he 'wanted to'? Do you know what is in his head?

Unless the constitution was been suspended in Texas, I'm pretty sure that due process has to be followed. Not to mention, it would be civil servants doing it, and we all know how swift they are.

And you are also forgetting that HD had just dissappeared. I doubt that the local authorites would be kicking them to the curb the next week. Certainly you would think that LE at least would have been strongly resisting that since it would contaminate a potential scene of interest.

 

[katydid23]

We know from MB's mother that she didnt want her daughter there because in the past, on sleepovers, the girls had in fact been running around town. If what MB's mother says in true, then it means that the level of supervision in BD's household was very low or non-existant. Based on what we have heard about BD and from what we have seen of her character on TV performances, that would not surprise me at all.

The kids would have had to give a cover story but it would never be checked on and they knew it.

You should not make the mistake of thinking HD would do what your daughter would do, because I'm pretty sure that HD wasn't raised in the same way your daughter would have been.

Well, this post I can agree with. All of it. :crazy:

 

[katydid23]

Unless the constitution was been suspended in Texas, I'm pretty sure that due process has to be followed. Not to mention, it would be civil servants doing it, and we all know how swift they are.

And you are also forgetting that HD had just dissappeared. I doubt that the local authorites would be kicking them to the curb the next week. Certainly you would think that LE at least would have been strongly resisting that since it would contaminate a potential scene of interest.

No due process is necessary to get the man to move out to attempt to save the housing deal. My friend manages a building that does Section 8 housing. When a single mom applies to live at reduced rent she signs a form saying it is just for herself and her children. Whenever my friend sees that a man has moved in, which often happens , she politely tells them to move out immediately or she will have to report them to the state. No due process, no bureaucracy involved at all. Now to actually evict them would take a lot of time. But that is not usually necessary. Just a friendly warning that they may lose the cheap housing rate.

And in fact, the housing authorities did warn him to leave the house, IIRC. It did not matter to them apparently that HD was missing. Clint's girlfriend was breaking the rules of her Section 8 housing and they were just doing their job.

 

[Tugela]

You are conveniently ignoring the past violence involving Shawn and the 911 calls. Is that all a hoax and exaggeration too? Billie called the cops and asked them to protect her from her raging boyfriend. And DD was present for the fight between SA and Clint, IIRC. Why would he lie or exaggerate that?

And when did HD ever say she was abused by SA ? That is not what she told her GM. She said she felt afraid because she thought he was lurking outside her bedroom door. Maybe she did mention something along those lines to Clint. He was on pain meds and lots of pot so he probably did not retain that info.

And they WERE trying to get Hailey moved in with Clint. So how do you know how close their relationship was or wasn't?

During the time she was living with a family friend Clint was about to have a new baby. She was probably hurt and upset by that. It doesn't mean they were not close. Quite the opposite.

Statistically, Shawn is a much more likely candidate for the perp than Clint is.

There was no evidence of violence or a raging boyfriend in the 911 call. All the raging was coming from BD, so much so that the local LE was becoming frustrated with her at the time. I don't doubt that they had an argument, and that words were exchanged, but that does not create a history of violence. Couples have disagreements and fight verbally all the time.

In any case from what I have seen of her on TV, I doubt BD lies down for anyone. I don't think there is a single submissive bone in her body. If SA were abusive she would not be sitting still about that, and he would not still be there. IMO the dynamic between them is that she is the dominant one and he does pretty much whatever she tells him to do. And IIRC, that is pretty much what SA's family was saying early on in this story as well.

The "violence" was created later by LE investigating HD's dissappearance and played up to provide probable cause so that they could get their search warrant. Under those circumstances it suited their purpose to play dumb.

There doesn't appear to have been a history of violence with SA at all. No criminal history, no reports of thuggish behaviour by his peers or LE during his youth, nothing. The only report of a physical fight came from CD's family, and by their account SA was spectaculary ineffective (meaning that it was the sort of thing he had no experience doing).

 

[Tugela]

No due process is necessary to get the man to move out to attempt to save the housing deal. My friend manages a building that does Section 8 housing. When a single mom applies to live at reduced rent she signs a form saying it is just for herself and her children. Whenever my friend sees that a man has moved in, which often happens , she politely tells them to move out immediately or she will have to report them to the state. No due process, no bureaucracy involved at all. Now to actually evict them would take a lot of time. But that is not usually necessary. Just a friendly warning that they may lose the cheap housing rate.

And in fact, the housing authorities did warn him to leave the house, IIRC. It did not matter to them apparently that HD was missing. Clint's girlfriend was breaking the rules of her Section 8 housing and they were just doing their job.

I don't doubt that they would have been kicked out, what I doubt is that it would have happened quickly.

My point was, if CD really was that obsessive about HD, he would have bent heaven and earth to stay there as long as possible or at the very least have the GF stay there as long as possible. He did not. Life apparently went on. That tells me one of two things: (A) The relationship was not as strong as we have been led to believe; or (B) He believed that she was either safe or would show up in due course.

Remember, this house was for the GF, if CD was being kicked out, and they had no where else to go, it would have made more sense for just him to leave.

 

[katydid23]

I don't doubt that they would have been kicked out, what I doubt is that it would have happened quickly.

My point was, if CD really was that obsessive about HD, he would have bent heaven and earth to stay there as long as possible or at the very least have the GF stay there as long as possible. He did not. Life apparently went on. That tells me one of two things: (A) The relationship was not as strong as we have been led to believe; or (B) He believed that she was either safe or would show up in due course.

Remember, this house was for the GF, if CD was being kicked out, and they had no where else to go, it would have made more sense for just him to leave.

bbm
I don't know why you keep using the word ' obsessive' about Clint's feelings for Hailey. She is his daughter. He loved her with all of his heart---no obsession involved, imo.

And yes, 'life' went on. They were struggling financially and legally, as LE found some pot when they first searched the house. Clint did not bother trying to clear anything out before LE arrived. He was focused on Hailey.

And who are we to say what made the most 'sense' for Clint to do the day after his beautiful daughter went missing. I think our speculation is pretty useless given the enormity of the situation he was left with.

You seem to be swinging back and forth between two assertions: one, that Clint was obsessed with Hailey. And two, that he was not that concerned with her situation at all. I think both are incorrect. imo

 

[ozazure]

You don't need to be submissive to lie for someone, the lies just have to suit your purpose. Plus people lie to themselves. If appearing sexually attractive, having a good looking younger man, being the queen bee all the time, is what floats Billie's boat, maybe her daughter becoming competition is threatening enough for that situation being taken care of permanently - even if it momentarily involves acknowledging/accepting Shawn having a clear interest in her daughter. The thought process doesn't even have to be conscious. Mothers with NPD will both do horrific things to their kids and allow them to be done.

I don't think it is unusual that Hailey may not have told her Dad about her fears of Shawn being outside her bedroom, and told her grandma instead. It might just be too much for her to bring issues up involving sexuality with her dad. She may be desperate to keep being just a little girl in his eyes. Who knows. I find the reports to her grandmother credible, her maternal grandmother seems like the ones with her head screwed on best after all.

 

[sreshowtime]

snipped -

........the level of supervision in BD's household was very low or non-existant........

me thinks that 's not the only household in town that's occurred in
:what:
pot meet kettle
cough cough ach hoo
grumble, shuffle

Okay...imposing myself a timeout, errr, going back to my quiet map starring, sorry my tongue needed a break from the biting.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Does anyone know if was it ever mentioned if Hailey ( or Billie rather) had a social security card and a certified birth certificate , and if so, were they still in the house after Hailey disappeared?

I think at this point your question is a very valid one. I too, am curious if a birth certificate and social security card for Hailey were in BD's possession at the time of her disappearance. JMO.

 

[Tugela]

You seem to be swinging back and forth between two assertions: one, that Clint was obsessed with Hailey. And two, that he was not that concerned with her situation at all. I think both are incorrect. imo

I know, that is what disturbs me. Both can't be right. It implies that we are not being told everything, that is the subtext. The question is which of those two is not correct, and what would be the point of that? It raises a credibility issue, when I look at this case I ask myself "can these people be believed? If I can't believe some of the things they say, can I believe anything they say?". This doesn't just apply to CD and his side, but also BD and her side. I think it is troubling and it must make things very difficult for LE, because they can never be sure if they are being sold a line for unrelated related reasons or not.

The only thing we can rely on is the physical evidence. We know where SA was and approximately when, we know where BD was and approximately when, we have limited information of where HD was part of the day, and we think we know where CD was (no independent means of verification for that). We have limited information on the whereabouts of DD, CD's GF and his mom. Everyone else we have no information on (this includes MB, SA's family, BD's family and CD's family). We have eye witness sightings, we have cell phone records for SA's calls/texts and we have HD's text. But that is really about it. All of the backstory for the players is of dubious accuracy because all of them (IMO) have a credibility issue.

I don't understand why these people can't just be truthfull about this stuff. No one expects them to be perfect parents, particularly when it is quite clear that the circumstances didn't lend themselves to that.

 

[For The Kids]

In all honesty i have never even got the impression that he wasnt worried about her situation. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Salem]

I muse about Hailey often - mostly I wonder where she is and WHY, OH WHY doesn't LE have something on this yet?

Praying she comes home soon,

Salem

 

[hollyblue]

This is one case I want solved...really bad...just because someone should be charged...with something... after the way BD & SA 'acted' throughout the whole investigation and the MANY loving and caring people (NOT) that this inspiring child was enveloped in. Horrendous is an understatement. God help the little ones that remain in this 'group'. IMO, JMO, etc.

ETA: And WHO is to be charged for the tons of child pornagraphy. There is still some nutball loose on those charges!!! AAARRRRGH!

 

[Tugela]

Reading between the lines of the afidavit, I don't think there was "tons" of CP. There was 100k images of *advertiser censored* on the computer found by the sheriffs department, but the CP was not among those. Instead, those were found in deleted images on the hard drive, and were found later by the FBI. So probably not that many, they were not part of the collection being stored on the computer.

 

[ozazure]

I agree Tugela, as much as I don't want to go to bat for Shawn Adkins, I think perhaps the child *advertiser censored* was exaggerated. The affidavit says the FBI found cp images on the slack space of Christina Walker's computer and that there was "voluminous" amounts of adult *advertiser censored*, deviant sexual behaviour and bestiality. Then on the grandmother's computer, in files that came from SA's email was adult *advertiser censored* and "one images that appears to me to be" CP that was similar to images on the other computer.

Is it actually CP or *advertiser censored* staged to look like minors? The wording is very careful that it appears to be CP. Did Shawn email himself those images or did someone else who had access to the first computer share them with Shawn? That is all information they'd have now that may means CP charges are not possible.

I do tend to believe they used some dodgy borderline images as leverage to search for more information for Hailey. Good on them if that's what it is and shame on them if this is another crime going unpunished.

 

[AppleGreen]

This is on our local news:

http://m.newswest9.com/default.aspx...mains-found-in-big-spring?clienttype=rssstory

 

[sreshowtime]

I haven't forgotten Hailey by a long shot...just in the background. Listen y'all, any one got any new thoughts, or even old ones that keep haunting you, so to speak? Any fresh ideas, or new folks with any thoughts after reading and getting caught up? What continues to bother you? Have you heard anything local, that might lend input? I know that recently a young girl was killed north of Abilene...apparently some young folks were out way toooo late , maybe some underage drinking, and possible high speed contributed to the accident. So I wonder, Any scuttlebutt on places young folks like to hang out, that maybe has never been mentioned for what ever reason??
Anything, throw me something else to chew on

Hailey- not...giving...up

 

[sreshowtime]

nobody? nobody have any other ideas on where to look?