Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #21

[jumpstreet]

The in laws are pushing for a psych test in Sept, they must not think he's going to be charged? If they are so sure he's the culprit then why demand a psych test near the end of September.

Perhaps it's a "contingency" plan, in case he doesn't get charged. I suspect the inlaws' priority is on the custody, and things "within their control" along that line (independent of the criminal investigation).

The inlaws may have their opinions, but for all we know, they themselves don't actually suspect BC, and yet they still don't want him to have custody (perhaps they don't think he's fit mentally, nor that it would be consistent with Nancy's wishes, even if they don't think he did it), hence the push for the exam.

It will be interesting to see how things transpire regardless. Of course, if he is charged much will be moot, but if not, then the psych test results (if we are privy), and the ultimate custody decision (in Oct) will be very interesting. Normally, I would think if he isn't charged, and passes the psych test (assuming the judge even orders one, which isn't guarantee anyway), then a judge would be hard pressed not to return custody.

 

[shack]

I see the autopsy as an essential piece but not necessarily the key to the case. The search warrants are also essential, and it seems from watching the videos and reviewing the photos - a significant number of items were removed from the residence. Can't see things being drug out in evidence bags if it apparently has no relevance. As to the cars, if evidence was found and it was of sufficient quantity to provide answers, it may not have been necessary to take the cars downtown. The 325 was in the garage - luminol could well have been performed on the spot. LE arrived at the house in the dark plus they had the distinct advantage of having already been in the home within 8 hours of Nancy having been reported as leaving it. There is no telling what was observed at that time, but no doubt observations were made. All elements are necessary.

For LE to serve a warrant on Cisco systems - it seems pretty obvious to me that some evidence was found in the home that opened this possibility.

Hey, I'm new here just passing through. I don't understand how you can say the autopsy report won't be important? My question is , if the autopsy report comes back that a complete stranger raped and killed this lady will these neighbors that have already convicted him sell their homes and move? Surely they would be ashamed to still live in the neighborhood with a man they have talked about so badly without just cause. Will he want his daughters anywhere near their children?

 

[Anderson]

Hey, I'm new here just passing through. I don't understand how you can say the autopsy report won't be important? My question is , if the autopsy report comes back that a complete stranger raped and killed this lady will these neighbors that have already convicted him sell their homes and move? Surely they would be ashamed to still live in the neighborhood with a man they have talked about so badly without just cause. Will he want his daughters anywhere near their children?

Hi Shack,

Welcome. I believe that RC would agree that the autopsy report will be helpful, but he is suggesting that we may learn more from the SWs. He will correct me if I am wrong.

We already know that the murder was not random, so it is unlikely that it was a stranger. Do you have another theory?

 

[ncnative]

Nancy would not have needed shade at that time of early morning. Where her body was found is way, way, way out from anywhere she'd run here. If she had to run on Holly Springs roadside to get to where she was dumped, she'd likely have a sprained ankle at the least. That roadside is terrible for even a walker. Try it out.

I will never feel "ashamed" for what I already know about Brad Cooper. Never. His daughters will someday, regardless of whether he killed his wife, their mother.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Hey, I'm new here just passing through. I don't understand how you can say the autopsy report won't be important? My question is , if the autopsy report comes back that a complete stranger raped and killed this lady will these neighbors that have already convicted him sell their homes and move? Surely they would be ashamed to still live in the neighborhood with a man they have talked about so badly without just cause. Will he want his daughters anywhere near their children?

Welcome Shack. The autopsy report will of course be important but it might not point to "who" did the crime. Unless the perp left his DNA on the victim or under her nails or somewhere then it won't establish guilt AS MUCH AS, say, if there were her DNA in the trunk of his car or blood somewhere in the house...something that ties the victim to the perp directly. Of course how NC was dressed when found is one thing to note, as well as where she was found. The chief of police said, twice, that based on what they've determined so far, this crime is NOT random and the community is safe. They haven't updated that statement to alert the community that a "random murderer/rapist is roaming the 'hood." They chose their words very carefully. They did it on two separate occasions. That tells me they strongly believe Nancy knew her murderer.

And then there are the things that can tie a perp to the crime...alibi or lack thereof, sightings, lies/inconsistencies in stories, etc, etc.

 

[jumpstreet]

Maybe I missed it (apologies if so), but normally is the ME's report and autopsy also entered into public record? I know we've (officially) heard from the ME that the report wasn't yet finished (in response to the early subpeona from BC in the custody case), but when it is finished, will it (normally) be made available (unless it is ordered by the court to be sealed)?

If it is normally made available, then do we know if the court has in fact ordered this one sealed or not? [ and if so, for how long, etc ]

[ Seems like in the Chapel Hill case, it was a big deal when that ME report was made available (to the public), and seems like the ME was previously under orders to keep that one sealed initially...but eventually the judge allowed it to be unsealed (perhaps also after some pressure from the media IIRC). This leads me to believe that the default is for these to be public-record. As far as we know, in the BC case, are we still on that path? ]

 

[SleuthyGal]

Yes it will be part of the public record unless it is sealed for a period of time (and I expect that will probably happen). Nothing has been said about the autopsy report status yet, other than "not ready yet."

 

[ncnative]

Well, *I'm* ready. I'm ready to have it all come out and solved, like everyone. I just wanted to say that, ha ha.

Sleuthy, I've almost finished the wreath. I'll let you know tomorrow. I'm going to put it out when it's dark outside, cause I'm askeered!

 

[SleuthyGal]

wow NC, you work fast! Can't wait to see it!

 

[FlowerChild]

Perhaps it's a "contingency" plan, in case he doesn't get charged. I suspect the inlaws' priority is on the custody, and things "within their control" along that line (independent of the criminal investigation).

The inlaws may have their opinions, but for all we know, they themselves don't actually suspect BC, and yet they still don't want him to have custody (perhaps they don't think he's fit mentally, nor that it would be consistent with Nancy's wishes, even if they don't think he did it), hence the push for the exam.

It will be interesting to see how things transpire regardless. Of course, if he is charged much will be moot, but if not, then the psych test results (if we are privy), and the ultimate custody decision (in Oct) will be very interesting. Normally, I would think if he isn't charged, and passes the psych test (assuming the judge even orders one, which isn't guarantee anyway), then a judge would be hard pressed not to return custody.

IF Brad is NOT charged in Nancy's murder then IF he wants his daughters back, he WILL get them. He is their bio father, whether Nancy's family likes it or not, those children are Brad's. And I do NOT believe a judge is going at ask a BIO father to undergo a Psych exam to have his daughters returned to him - he ALLOWED Nancy's family to take the children (for whatever reason) but legally speaking, Brad is still the custodial parent. The GP's just got him to agree they could have TEMPORARY custody of the girls until the murder investigation was completed.

Lot of "IFS" here. Brad must be cleared, and he must WANT his daughters - which is going to require a HUGE lifestyle change for him AND for the girls too. Full-time Day-Care or a nanny and if no full-time nanny, there will be no weekday activities or dance lessons (because Brad will have to work). No more Ironman triathalons, no more extended trips away from home (if any overnight trips at all) and Brad will have to hire a housekeeper or learn to cook, clean and do laundry. And ALL of them will need counseling - together and separately. Becoming an instant single parent in a place where you have no family and at this point, very little community support will be tough for ALL of them - Brad may decide the girls are better off in Canada - not likely - but it is a possibility.

I predict a "non-suspect" Brad will move - perhaps just to a different area or neighborhood, but maybe back to Canada. I don't think BC will stay in his current home if he is cleared, not with many of the neighbors openly hostile. And I have to agree with one point, IF Brad is NOT a suspect and is cleared if I were him I would NOT send my daughters to a school or day care where ANY of the children of friends of Nancy might attend. The affidavits made it clear their opinions of Brad and THAT could eventually harm the ONLY 100% innocents in all of this, the daughters. It is NOT right for ANY adult to make those girls pay in any way for something they didn't choose and cannot change - they are his daughters and they cannot be anything else.

My Opinion

 

[Star12]

It could be any of those three options. If TOD indeed is confirmed after 7:00 a.m., B&C.

I don't know how A scenario could work with Mr. Cooper being home with the kids and I have no idea how to hire a hitman. He has cooperated with the police, and given LE a timeline.

Speculatively, I'm certain I read somewhere in the affidavits that Mrs. Cooper was not feeling well.,we don't know to what extent. I know that I have ran when I was feeling SO-SO and I felt better afterwards. She could have just passed out, maybe she felt something coming on and needed to get in some shade....

She could have ran over to those new homes under construction and well you know...ran into someone who wasn't very nice. Construction workers do work on the weekend.

We could speculate 24/7.

The in laws are pushing for a psych test in Sept, they must not think he's going to be charged? If they are so sure he's the culprit then why demand a psych test near the end of September.

Nancy had Crohn's disease, and had been feeling the effects Friday night, not Saturday morning. And if she hadn't felt well, her typical running paths are very well shaded.

And why would she want to run in a construction site? She had beautiful running paths much more convenient to her. And BC outlined in his affidavit pretty much where she typically ran.

The inlaws are not pushing for a psychiatric evaluation in September. Their attorneys have requested a hearing date of September 22 on their previous motion for the psych eval in the custody case. It has nothing to do with whether they think he will be charged or not. The evaluation is for his emotional and mental fitness as a parent. They have asked for a choice of two specific doctors, if available, to do the testing. The testing can take a while, and then it takes more time for the results of the tests to be evaluated, before they can be presented to the court. IMHO, I would not be surprised if this action were to cause a further delay in the October 13 custody hearing date. There's only about 2-1/2 weeks between the motion hearing and the custody hearing.

 

[Star12]

Welcome Shack. The autopsy report will of course be important but it might not point to "who" did the crime. Unless the perp left his DNA on the victim or under her nails or somewhere then it won't establish guilt AS MUCH AS, say, if there were her DNA in the trunk of his car or blood somewhere in the house...something that ties the victim to the perp directly. Of course how NC was dressed when found is one thing to note, as well as where she was found. The chief of police said, twice, that based on what they've determined so far, this crime is NOT random and the community is safe. They haven't updated that statement to alert the community that a "random murderer/rapist is roaming the 'hood." They chose their words very carefully. They did it on two separate occasions. That tells me they strongly believe Nancy knew her murderer.

And then there are the things that can tie a perp to the crime...alibi or lack thereof, sightings, lies/inconsistencies in stories, etc, etc.

And then, of course, if there is nobody's else's DNA to be found...

(bolding is mine)

 

[jumpstreet]

The inlaws are not pushing for a psychiatric evaluation in September. Their attorneys have requested a hearing date of September 22 on their previous motion for the psych eval in the custody case. ...IMHO, I would not be surprised if this action were to cause a further delay in the October 13 custody hearing date. There's only about 2-1/2 weeks between the motion hearing and the custody hearing.

That's assuming the judge even grants the motion. Surely the plaintiffs have to present some compelling evidence (besides all the hearsay about suicide attempts) in order for a judge to order someone to submit to a probe. In the absence of any compelling evidence (which they may have - who knows), I would assume a judge would promptly deny this request.

[ Unless it is common in custody cases for any parties seeking custody to be ordered for psych probe upon request. If that's the case, then it may as well be "routine" for the court to order such a probe just as a prerequisite to requesting custody (out of an abundance of caution ) ]

My guess is it's not routine, and unless the plantiffs present something fairly compelling that indicates he isn't fit/stable (more than just the hearsay in those affidavits), he won't have to take the test.

[ Side bar: If a probe is ordered, wonder who has to pony up for it... ]

 

[chauncey7381]

Raisin, Flowerchild, Jumpst, and NCNative....

RC/FLowerchild, CISCO office---my belief is LE is checking out his timeline and from the affidavits regarding the phone disconnects etc., whats on the harddrive at work etc.

Jmpst, it's my understanding the GPs and Mr. Cooper settled this without an actual hearing. They negotiated custody, I personally was hoping the judge would let him keep his children, yet, in the same time it is likely best that they stay in a more stable environment away from public scrutiny here. If Mr. Cooper is not charged is cleared before October, I really don't see how the GPs have any right to request a psych evaluation. They might be jeopardizing their own future visitations if they keep this up. I don't see how a judge could rule in favor of the GPs if Mr. Cooper is cleared of any wrongdoing.

The in-laws clearly think he's mentally unstable, I also firmly believe they think he's responsible for her death. Sometimes, I think they are hoping he'll confess.

NCNative---I have not been to the site she was found, it does look off the beaten path from the pics which were posted. I know I would never run there alone. I usually run over at Regency/Koka (alone), Lake Crabtree and on Raleigh Greenway Trails with a friend. I was just thinking that because she wasn't feeling well the night before, that perhaps she got flushed/hot, clammy, nauseated.

 

[FlowerChild]

I know someone who has Crohn's and it isn't so much a "I feel bad and need to lie down" as it is, I feel bad and I need to find a bathroom RIGHT NOW". She (my friend) will NOT go anywhere new that she doesn't KNOW has a close bathroom. If her flare is bad enough, she must stay home, the problems are uncontrollable and sudden - she said she cannot imagine being out running when you were having a "flare" because activity can make it worse, the "urgency" to find a bathroom, cramps, pain etc. She also finds it interesting that Nancy might have been drinking the night before WHILE supposedly have a flare - it's kinda a #1 no-no with Crohn's as it can really irritate and inflame the colon and stomach more if you drink - but especially if you do so when you are already experiencing problems.

Here is some "official" info on symptoms.

Crohn's disease can cause a variety of symptoms of gastrointestinal distress. The three classic (though not specific) symptoms of inflammatory bowel disease are:

Persistent or recurrent diarrhea (possibly with blood, mucus)
Abdominal pain
Fever

A number of signs and symptoms that do not involve the gastrointestinal tract can occur with Crohn's disease

Reddening and inflammation of the eye (iritis)
Joint pain (usually in the large joints of the knees, ankles, elbows, wrists, and shoulders), which sometimes migrates from one joint to another (migrating arthralgia)
Skin lesions, including tender red nodules on the shins or calves (erythema nodosum)
Sores inside the mouth (aphthous ulcers)

http://www.ehealthmd.com/library/crohnsdisease/cd_symptoms.html

 

[maconrich]

It is NOT right for ANY adult to make those girls pay in any way for something they didn't choose and cannot change - they are his daughters and they cannot be anything else.

My Opinion

I agree with the above 100%. Too bad BC didn't think of that before he killed the mother of his children -- naturally IF he did it that is.

 

[jumpstreet]

Jmpst, it's my understanding the GPs and Mr. Cooper settled this without an actual hearing. They negotiated custody, I personally was hoping the judge would let him keep his children, yet, in the same time it is likely best that they stay in a more stable environment away from public scrutiny here. If Mr. Cooper is not charged is cleared before October, I really don't see how the GPs have any right to request a psych evaluation. They might be jeopardizing their own future visitations if they keep this up. I don't see how a judge could rule in favor of the GPs if Mr. Cooper is cleared of any wrongdoing.

The in-laws clearly think he's mentally unstable, I also firmly believe they think he's responsible for her death. Sometimes, I think they are hoping he'll confess.

Thanks. They've only temporarily settled it (until mid-October or so - 75 days from when the initial hearing was schedule to be). Meanwhile, the GP's have now re-requested the judge to officially rule on their psych evaluation request, and that hearing (just the psych evaluation part) is set for late September.

Agree he could have conceded the temporary custody for now (on the basis that it's probably temporary best). [ Though some of the terms, especially the visitation terms, strike me as somewhat one-sided, so not sure I totally buy that it was a "gift" (vs the plaintiffs having some real leverage ]

The mere fact that the original ex-parte hearing resulted in him (temporarily) losing custody immediately (BIO father not named as a suspect or POI!), makes me think there is some legitimate leverage somewhere for the plaintiffs (perhaps independent of the criminal investigation).

Either way though, as you say, unless the plaintiffs can offer this legitimate basis for the evaluation, I can't imagine it being granted.

[ and again, it's all moot if he's arrested... FWIW, that 75-day timeframe struck me as somewhat odd (like 60 days+2 weeks)... wonder which side suggested that specific time period... hmmm... ]

 

[momto3kids]

The GP's had something to present to the judge for the Ex Parte in order to do it so swift...
There is absolutely no way any family comes in from another country and says I think my son in law is unstable, I need my grandkids, not from a bio parent and gets it granted immediately.

IF you recall the Ex Parte was signed before the SW was even completed!

Believe me, it was because the LE had enough on BC by the time they left BC's home Saturday the 12th. All they wanted was to find NC so they could pursue the Ex Parte ASAP.

Now it is a matter of getting DNA and TOD to take mr BC to :behindbar

 

[carolinalady]

MT3K, since you seem to have access to lots of tidbits of info, have you heard anything about what articles were found in the woods? IIRC, there were early reports that some item(s) of clothing was/were found during the search.

 

[Star12]

[ Unless it is common in custody cases for any parties seeking custody to be ordered for psych probe upon request. If that's the case, then it may as well be "routine" for the court to order such a probe just as a prerequisite to requesting custody (out of an abundance of caution ) ]

It is fairly routine, or perhaps I should say, not uncommon. IMO, the judge will likely grant the request. It's a reasonable request, and they have every right to ask for an eval. And, again, it has nothing to do with the criminal investigation, The children's mother is dead. It is in the best interests of the children to have a stable environment in which to grown and be nurtured. Whether Brad Cooper committed a crime or not, he definitely is under an amazing amount of ongoing stress, and likely will be for a while. The children are removed from it all for the time being.

Children are little social people, and NEED to be around other little people, as well as adults, in order to become socialized and grow emotionally If you think about the environment they would be in here, it just would not be good for them.

And no, the judge had nothing to do with this. It was settled amongst the parties. Brad agreed. All the judge did was sign the order to make it binding.

The guiding star is always for the best interests of the children.