Prosecuting the Crime of Bigamy

[Leila]

I brought this over from another thread because it's about polygamy laws/Supreme Court Canada.

Both Canada and Mexico concern me on this issue because of the fact that the multinational corporations are trying to morph us into one big North American Economic Alliance, one big marketplace where profit is all that counts and "inconvenient" laws are ignored.

The link is to a story about the Canadian FLDS.
At least the kids there have tricycles!
But that fricken Prophet Winston Blackmore: " . . . wouldn't say how many children he has or how many wives. One of the children on his property said there are 116 Blackmore children.

Blackmore told CTV News that he has "plenty enough" children. When it comes to the number of wives, he said he has "just enough, so I don't chase anybody else's."

For some reason, that makes me feel like :sick:

I can't tell from that story what the polygamy laws currently are there, but I'm going to start researching that, too. Because these guys who run their little fiefdoms via labor from their harems' offspring are acting like they're just happy little clams without a qualm about their shameless use of other human beings for their own profit.

It's just wrong to force any individual to be a pawn in someone else's game, a baby factory or a beast of burden, relentlessly trained from birth that that's their proper place in the universe. I get sick just thinking about it! :furious:

A couple of weeks ago one of the major networks (CNN?) did an interview with Winston Blackmore at his compound in British Columbia. He was very evasive, not willing to discuss how many wives/children, and instead took the reporter on a horseback tour of his compound. One wife was interviewed and she was totally the opposite of the FLDS women we've seen in Arizona, Utah, and Texas. The wife wore jeans and her hair was shorter, pulled into a pony tail. But in the background you could see FLDS women in the pioneer dresses and typical hairstyles. There were a lot of children running around, but I didn't see any other adult men. It was obviously a propaganda piece for the FLDs.

From what I've read, Warren Jeffs was in control of the British Columbia community, with Winston Blackmore as leader of the community. There was a split between Blackmore and Jeffs, and Blackmore's followers are divided - some loyal to Jeffs, some loyal to him.

With the announcement that some Canadian children were among those removed from the YFZ ranch in Texas, a Canadian official was quoted as saying that they would be watching this closely as it may give cause to look into the Canadian FLDS.

I think the big unknown is Mexico. We've heard there's an FLDS community there, but there's been very little information about it.

 

[mysteriew]

Thanks for elaborating ..... I have to agree with your sentiment completely.

Except I am getting hung up on the word "crime." I agree it's a moral "crime," especially when deception (very destructive) is involved.

I'm gonna stick with "separation between church and state" on this issue. It's possible that marriage was created by men for the purpose of keeping better track of their children/heirs, even though before DNA they used to be able to deny "illegitimate" children any access to their estates. And I don't know which came first, the church or the state.

But since a lot of societies down through the ages have made actual marriage laws, I'm assuming they've done it because of believing those laws were beneficial to the smoother running of their societies.

I do agree with you that nobody who's ever taken a vow "until death do us part" and then gotten divorced and gone on to say the same vow to a second person, that person is a hypocrite because he/she knows darn well they didnt keep their promise the first time, so giving the same promise to someone else is completely meaningless.

But the legal piece of paper is not meaningless.
It's a social contract, and society enforces it for a reason.
It's enforced by law enforcement ..... usually.
Unfortunately, it's not being enforced by LE that's also polygamous (in places like Colorado City).

That's corruption, plain and simple.
I've even read that they don't allow females to get driver's licenses so that, in case a girl tries to escape in a car, any member of the community can call the police who will, thereby, have ready-made "probable cause" to stop the car when they see it.
The more I find out about the corruption that's a natural outcome of bigamy/polygamy, the more convinced I am that the laws against it need to start being enforced and the penalties increased because of its destructiveness on the lives of the children.

That may be the truth in some cases. But I think it was yesterday that I posted on Thread 5, the story of a woman who was driving and got distracted and had an accident. She had three 3 year olds in the car with her. There was no mention of her not having a license. So it seems that some can drive.

 

[FlowerChild]

From what i have read, there are TWO FLDS properties in Mexico. both VERY REMOTE and miles from even a rough road. And from being in TX I know that you don't need a passport to get INTO Mexico, just if you want to get BACK OUT into the USA. Wanna bet the FLDS people will disappear into the desert and we may never see them again ...OR THEIR KIDS??? If the kids don't have a BIRTH CERTIFICATE they can't GET A PASSPORT - they will be TRAPPED...just the way the FLDS wants them. And if Mom doesn't have a passport, it's pretty certain she isn't going to RUN...where would she run to? She is trapped in a foreign country with no Spanish, 100 miles from civilization and no money and no way to get away. And I know for a fact that Mexican LE CAN BE BOUGHT for a few pesos. If the FLDS can get their assets and their leadership into Mexico, it will be WORSE than Hilldale and Colorado City could have been on their worst day.

Canada isn't going to take our garbage - they WILL shut the FLDS down there - but Mexico is a whole different story.

My Opinion

 

[Seven]

That may be the truth in some cases. But I think it was yesterday that I posted on Thread 5, the story of a woman who was driving and got distracted and had an accident. She had three 3 year olds in the car with her. There was no mention of her not having a license. So it seems that some can drive.

yes, I believe that's true. In fact it's to their benefit, since their communities are usually so far from the town/Welfare/WIC payments, for the females to be able to drive, but without licenses they don't drive legally.

And that's where the corruption comes in. They're not stopped by the police for driving, but not having a license subjects them to the possibility of being stopped for cause if it's discovered they're trying to escape.

Also, as Carolyn Jessop found out, the gas tanks are kept purposefully low. If her brother hadn't agreed to meet her on the road, she would have been SOL when she ran out of gas as she tried to escape with her 8 children.

 

[Seven]

From what i have read, there are TWO FLDS properties in Mexico. both VERY REMOTE and miles from even a rough road. And from being in TX I know that you don't need a passport to get INTO Mexico, just if you want to get BACK OUT into the USA. Wanna bet the FLDS people will disappear into the desert and we may never see them again ...OR THEIR KIDS??? If the kids don't have a BIRTH CERTIFICATE they can't GET A PASSPORT - they will be TRAPPED...just the way the FLDS wants them. And if Mom doesn't have a passport, it's pretty certain she isn't going to RUN...where would she run to? She is trapped in a foreign country with no Spanish, 100 miles from civilization and no money and no way to get away. And I know for a fact that Mexican LE CAN BE BOUGHT for a few pesos. If the FLDS can get their assets and their leadership into Mexico, it will be WORSE than Hilldale and Colorado City could have been on their worst day.

Canada isn't going to take our garbage - they WILL shut the FLDS down there - but Mexico is a whole different story.

My Opinion

I've had all those same thoughts myself, and it's very scary. ..... I'm kinda wondering whether Canada's going to enforce their own anti-bigamy laws any better than some of the states in the U.S.

"In Canada, the Criminal Code (2007) at ¶290 (extract only):

"Every one commits bigamy who in Canada, being married, goes through a form of marriage with another person....

"No person commits bigamy by going through a form of marriage if that person in good faith and on reasonable grounds believes that his spouse is dead; the spouse of that person has been continuously absent from him for seven years immediately preceding the time when he goes through the form of marriage, unless he knew that his spouse was alive at any time during those seven years; that person has been divorced from the bond of the first marriage; or the former marriage has been declared void by a court of competent jurisdiction."


http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/B/Bigamy.aspx

So I'm going to be watching to see what happens in Bountiful, because that community seems unconcerned, despite this:

"B.C. Attorney General Wally Oppal says the government has been in contact with U.S. officials over Bountiful. He also says the B.C. government is considering its next legal move when it comes to dealing with the community.

Oppal says he needs someone to come forward with evidence of sexual abuse before charges can be laid. Their other option is a legal case against polygamy based on bigamy laws."

​

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/04/24/5379581-cp.html

In other words, he's talking a good game,
but I'll look forward to seeing any "legal case" actually happen!

 

[FlowerChild]

That may be the truth in some cases. But I think it was yesterday that I posted on Thread 5, the story of a woman who was driving and got distracted and had an accident. She had three 3 year olds in the car with her. There was no mention of her not having a license. So it seems that some can drive.

Some "Senior Wives" get to drive - somebody has to take the children to the dentist and run "female" errands when the men are working. I can assure you that new wives, wives without children or unmarried girls are NOT allowed to have a Drivers License.

The FLDS women in Utah and AZ do need to drive MORE, (the hi-way runs thru town, it isn't a fenced off compound like YFZ) - although again, the older/Senior women/wives are the ones that drive MOST.

At the YFZ ranch one of the people who speaks to insiders said clearly that only married "senior" women with children drive outside the property. And even the women that are trusted, must get the permission of AT LEAST their husband AND the Bishop running the property to leave. These women don't just go grab the car keys and run to the store when they feel like it - it must be an approved trip....and every other woman there would KNOW if you were permitted to go or not. I am sure they FIGHT for the chance to drive - it elevates you in status over the other wives.

They don't let the BOYS get licenses either --- again - married, with children, trusted, over 18 ONLY. Otherwise you must depend on the FLDS for transportation - it's just another way to control the members.

There is more than ONE reason the FLDS has bought up all those remote properties in SD and CO and TX....aside from privacy from the outside world, they want to be sure there is NO WAY someone running away can get to civilization in a day of walking.

My Opinion

 

[Peculiar Petunia]

Clueless about quoting here:
Some "Senior Wives" get to drive - somebody has to take the children to the dentist and run "female" errands when the men are working. I can assure you that new wives, wives without children or unmarried girls are NOT allowed to have a Drivers License.

Can you get a Driver's License in Texas without a birth certificate in hand? You sure can't in many of the northern states.

 

[FlowerChild]

Clueless about quoting here:
Some "Senior Wives" get to drive - somebody has to take the children to the dentist and run "female" errands when the men are working. I can assure you that new wives, wives without children or unmarried girls are NOT allowed to have a Drivers License.

Can you get a Driver's License in Texas without a birth certificate in hand? You sure can't in many of the northern states.

You can if you already HAVE a valid license from ANOTHER STATE - like one they got in Hilldale or Colorado City where the FLDS runs all the offices. And the older FLDS-ers HAVE birth certificates and SS#'s - I guess you get to get a SS# and a BC after you are 18 and have the required number of children? MANY of the Mothers DO collect WIC and Food Stamps and I think you have to have a SS# to be eligible for THOSE so the adults and SOME of the kids MUST have a BC/SS# on file somewhere. I think they probably hold off getting the BC and the SS# for the kids until they HAVE to get them - in the case of the GIRLS, I betcha they don't get EITHER until their 18th birthday - till then they I think many of the girls are pretty much "off the grid".

Did you read about the 16 year old saying she was 18 and had 2 kids and her stepsister ratted her out and said she was 16 and had 4 kids? These girls won't even tell how old they are or how many (or which) of the kids are theirs. No WONDER CPS won't release any info to these parents - they have no IDEA who's kids are who's. The parents DENY THEIR OWN CHILDREN to protect the FLDS --maybe the two kids the girl didn't claim were just "boys"?

My Opinion