Questions you'd like answers to... #2

[Big Mo]

You aren't missing anything. The family has been cleared. Tonight, I'm babysitting and for the first time in years, I watched several programs devoted to the murder, (I think the channel has something to do with either A&E or Court TV) including several done by Reporter Elizabeth Vargas. I was impressed with the depth and credentials of the lead investigator (former FBI) All medical experts interviewed share the same opinion: an unknown male killed JonBenet. As DNA analysis has advanced over the years, the DNA has been entered into CODIS. Detective Lou Smits continued to investigate up until he died in hospice a few years ago. His extensive files include a spread sheet with around 50 suspects still being excluded. The programs showed the lead investigator collecting DNA from some of the suspects, including going through their trash.

The medical experts all agree the child was conscious when the garrote was placed around her neck and there are her own nail marks above it showing she struggled and fought with her attacker. They presented several theories but none involve the family in any way. They believe it started as a kidnapping and she was murdered because she fought back. I have no reason to doubt their expert opinions.

JMO

They may be correct, but I'm afraid these experts are putting all of their eggs in one basket. Jonbenet was out of the home most of the day, into the late evening. She did not bathe upon returning home. The traces of DNA could have come from anywhere. Eliminating suspects based solely on that is ridiculous, but law enforcement has done exactly that.

 

[Big Mo]

Thanks for the reply. But this is what I mean...she's hit in the head, so they decide to then violently strangle her ON TOP OF THAT?

Why? She was hit in the head already, and she wasn't dead, why not fake an accident instead and call 911 saying she has a head injury?

I apologize if this is me just being slow, but the the family memeber(s) thought pattern is/are:

"Ok, she's hit in the head. Let's not call 911 and..."

And what? Drag her down stairs. Ok, Then what? Eventually they came to the idea:

"Well, we'll need to violently strangle her too."

And my question is why? If she's dead form the head injury, you don't need to strangle her, and if she isn't dead, why kill then her, and why with a violent strangulation?

This is the same person, presumably, that thought it was a good idea to write a very long ransom note.

 

[Jackal4752]

Getting hit in the head can happen to anybody conceivably. If Patsy thought Jonbenet was dead, or going to be brain damaged, she wanted to cover up what I assume Burke did.
It's odd that someone doesn't try to save their own child, but we don't know what condition she was in. It seems like duct tape on the hands and mouth would have been sufficient. The other details...maybe also occurred before Patsy got involved.

 

[Jackal4752]

Not impossible and if true
should have been proven.
A young emotional killer
would most likely made many
many mistakes. The problem
was all the leaks and mistakes
made during this investigation
would make a conviction all
but impossible.

 

[edpower]

Ok, so the more I read and listen to, the more I realize no one really knows much for real at this point. Like we all, myself included, and all the specials seem to grab what backs us up, but most people who disagree just explain why that's not true, and everyone reading this probably thinking "Yes. The other side does do that".

That said, there is more info here then most places.

I was always a RDI guy until last year, which then started me down the rabbit hole to find out what I thought I know vs what is true.

So, I thought I'd throw out random questions I have, and see what's come up with here.

Ssssoooo...

Questions:

1. How much pineapple was found during autopsy?

2. I read/heard the pineapple was an exact match for what was in the bowl (fresh with rind), that it was canned, and also that it's possible it was fruit salad. Which is true? It seems like when I read what seems to be the autopsy, it seems to just say a pineapple-like fruit substance.

3. Were there figerprints on the spoon? I know there were on the bowl, but I see in some places there were prints on the spoon, and it others that no prints were found on the spoon.

4. What's your opinions on the Annie Muss chats?

Anyway, let me know what you've seen, and from where you heard/read it if you remember. Thanks!

 

[edpower]

5. What, if any, would be the effect of the head injury JBR received on her digestion? Especially, if it happened right as she was digesting it?

Thanks.

 

[edpower]

Question 1, 3, and 5 are the ones I'm most interested in.

 

[Swirlz]

1. A small amount; like she'd eaten a small piece.
2. The pineapple in JBR's digestive tract matched the fresh cut pineapple that was in a bowl on the R's kitchen table.
3. I'm not aware of any prints having been found on the spoon.
4. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with Annie Muss.
5. This is an interesting question and I don't have an answer.

 

[DollMomma]

Ok, so if the parents did do it, I have one question....why did they stage a second cause of death?

To clarify, if John, Patsy, and/or Burke killed JonBenet (by accident or on purpose) by either strangling her or by a head injury, then why cover it up by either strangling her or hitting her on the head?

Ex:

* Family member(s) kill JonBenet.
* Family member(s) decides to cover it up that they did it.
* To cover it up, family member(s) then further brutalize the already dead body to make it look like it was murdered?

Why would they fake "re-kill" the already murdered body to make it look murdered if it was already murdered?

I feel like I'm missing something here.

Thanks.

This is just IMO.. I think that due to Patsey aiming for John and missing him and hitting JBR.. they ended her life instead of taking her to ER.. She had a history of issues w her private parts and they were terrified of her being examined for sexual abuse.. IMO.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

This is just IMO.. I think that due to Patsey aiming for John and missing him and hitting JBR.. they ended her life instead of taking her to ER.. She had a history of issues w her private parts and they were terrified of her being examined for sexual abuse.. IMO.

DollMomma,
It’s great you have your thinking cap on! We should consider this: JR and PR unreasonably placed JB in a situation which posed a threat of injury to her life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey” and rendered assistance to a person “knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death.”

 

[DollMomma]

DollMomma,
It’s great you have your thinking cap on! We should consider this: JR and PR unreasonably placed JB in a situation which posed a threat of injury to her life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey” and rendered assistance to a person “knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death.”

PR ignored years of ritual abuse.. But she herself is a red sparrow.. I have said this for a very long time.. this is a family business.. it wouldn't surprise me if JR passed her around in exchange for $$ .. Project Monarch.. but.. Everyone ignores the known for a long time.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

PR ignored years of ritual abuse.. But she herself is a red sparrow.. I have said this for a very long time.. this is a family business.. it wouldn't surprise me if JR passed her around in exchange for $$ .. Project Monarch.. but.. Everyone ignores the known for a long time.

DollMomma,
From evidence with NP stating all children are a little abused and talking about the size of her grandson’s privates to PP behind closed doors with BR telling people to go away ... I’m going to stick with the *@#* rolls down hill theory. PR was taking chemo when her family came to help take care of her and the children. At this time JB started her pageant life at age 3. Perhaps JR was an abuser but then I have to ask myself several questions. 1. He was gone from home a good deal of the time so how does that play into that scenario? Was he aware and took part, or ignored it; as your stated PR did? Perhaps.
I’m still leaning towards BR did it. How much and how far he went that night is of question. Whomever did this to JB which in my opinion started out with grab the red sweater by the neck, twist it hard enough to initially choke her, and when she was able to turn to get away she was struck by the blunt object. Who would be this angry? I don’t think it was a sex act gone bad. I think it was uncontrollable anger. BR was known for this display of character. Besides, the parents weren’t found to have committed first degree murder by the GR. That would mean only one thing, if they were guilty ... money talks.

 

[angelina1]

Regarding Annie Muss posts and answers - I personally do not believe it

 

[Swirlz]

Who is Annie Muss?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

5. What, if any, would be the effect of the head injury JBR received on her digestion? Especially, if it happened right as she was digesting it?

Thanks.

edpower,
According to Paula Woodward ... a forensic coroner consulted in the case stated that the food would have been in the stomach/intestine within 30 minutes, but digestion of the food would have stopped if she were traumatized by a stun gun or a blow to the head.
Also, in late December 1997 (10 months after JB autopsy) the BPD received a report from experts stating that grapes, grape skins, and cherries had been found with pineapple in JB body. These fruits were typical of fruit cocktail but the pineapple did match down to the rind with fresh pineapple found in the kitchen.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

This is interesting:

 

[Tobiano8th]

grunching....

as per the boulder grand jury and the charges suggested, 1) with a child involved (and maybe other criteria), first degree murder does not require planning/intent that we tend to think of (in colorado i'd add), 2) i couldn't understand how they could help with 1st degree murder when neither parent was going to be charged with that.

but the basic, important point is that apparently with a child's death and parents, the criteria for first degree murder are much more lax.

 

[Tobiano8th]

googling Annie Muss constituted 90 seconds of my life i will never get back.

just another mentally disturbed or fictitious person claiming credit for JBR murder or suggesting they know all about the crime..... the poster's paranoid schizophrenia was kicking in as he posted (he shared that info himself)

i think the count of people who claim to have done this crime or have been fingered by people is about 8 now........ they all can't have done it. and i have a very hard time believing some sex obsessed male pedophile wrote that ransom note (there was one candidate other than PR who was also a journalism major, but he seemed like a classic non-starter too)

 

[Tobiano8th]

is the ramsey house in boulder still there?... is it a minor tourist attraction?

OJ and paul bernardo houses are gone. maybe even the addresses. not sure about nicole's place. i think the townhouse is still there.

 

[edpower]

Thanks for all the responses!

1. A small amount; like she'd eaten a small piece.
2. The pineapple in JBR's digestive tract matched the fresh cut pineapple that was in a bowl on the R's kitchen table.
3. I'm not aware of any prints having been found on the spoon.
4. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with Annie Muss.
5. This is an interesting question and I don't have an answer.

Thanks. Do you know where you got the info on how much pineapple there was?

This is interesting:
View attachment 248497

Wow. That is interesting. Where is that from? Does it mean she ate other fruit earlier in the night, and the matching pineapple later?

So some more questions:

1. Does anyone know if it is usual that there are no prints on the spoon? Like, are they hard to get prints off of because of how we wrap our hands around them? I have no idea why I think anyone would know that. I guess maybe I'm hoping someone is a cop on here.

2. Possible stupid question, but what the heck...I keep reading the pineapple was the same "down to the rind". Does that mean she eat the pineapple chunk/s INCLUDING the rinds?

3. Does anyone know if when Burke hit Jonbenet with the golf club, were there any threats to them that'd he'd be taken away from them? Was it investigated by any state agencies? Or was it just treated like a typical kids/accident thing?

4. With Burke's alleged scatological issues:

* Him smearing feces on the wall of a bathroom during his Mom's first run in with cancer.
* The "grapefruit sized" poop on JBR's bed.
* Burke smearing feces on JBR's box of candy.

My understanding is the first 2 where stated by the housekeeper. Is she the only one who has mentioned these incidents? Were they officially mentioned to the police by her (or anyone else)?

I've heard the box of candy was a box of Christmas candy found in Jonbenet's room, and also read that it was a box of Valentine's chocolate found earlier in the year. I've also read this "box of chocolate" thing was only mentioned in one book, and not sourced. I've also read when asked the police have no recollection on this. How does this match what you've heard about this alleged incident?

5. In 1996, could someone from the security company be able to tell things like if the house alarm was off?

6. In 1996, could someone tell by looking at it if the alarm was only linked to the first floor or not?

I believe the security system was from a place in Boulder called "Safe Systems":

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-alarm-system.htm

Thanks again.