Sheila and Katherine Lyon-sisters missing since 1975 - #1

Status
Not open for further replies.
ShurlT said:
... Another composite was right next to it of a man with dark hair, dark skin and heavy beard but not an actual beard, more like 5 O'clock shadow. ... The funny thing is, the composite setup on DoeNet is almost the same as what I saw in the paper, except that, when you study it closer you realize the one on the right is a possible version of a younger TRM...
You are referring to three different drawings. The sketches of the Tape Recorder Man were done by PFC D. Morton of the Montgomery County Police. He was interviewed and quoted in the Washington Star artilce about "Jimmy" the 13 year-old boy who gave the witness description of TRM talking to the girls (posted on this board under TRM thread). The first drawing was made on 28 March 1975 and based totally on "Jimmy's" memory and his interaction with Officer Morton. It was published on 1 and 2 April, and appeared on all Washington DC (and probably Baltimore) TV stations.

Numerous phone call tips came in to police following publication of the origional sketch (the one on the left in the Doenet link). Police interviewed several persons who claimed to have seen the man. Each was asked if they thought the sketch was accurate, and if not, what changes should be made? Based on their input, very minor changes to the first drawing were made - mostly to the chin area. Also, I noticed that there were not as many wrinkles in the second version of the sketch. That second or "revised" sketch was issued and published on 4 April 1975.

I have never seen the two sketches published in any major newspaper side-by-side, and not after 17 April 1975, although I will concede that they may have been presented that way on a flyer or by some small newspaper that I have not seen.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that the Doe network received the two sketches from me and that I got them separately from different newspapers. They were of different sizes in the papers and were made the same size on my scanner. The website coordinator of Doenetwork simply chose to present them side-by-side, as you have observed.

The third "sketch" which you mention is in all likelyhood the Self Portrait of murderer Michael Edward Pearch. It looks exactly as you describe it. I have never seen it published next to either TRM sketch, but only as I described earlier, with Pearch on page C1 and TRM on the page behind it, C2 of the 17 April 1975 edition of Washington Post. It may be quite possible, since the Post published both pictures on that day, that another paper may have done the same but with both pictures on the same page. I would be very interested in seeing such a newspaper if you can find it.
 
Hmm. Thanks Richard. That's very interesting. I wondered if the description of the second man would match what you said. I'm glad I put it on here. Have been chastising myself for being long winded and determined to condense future postings if possible. I don't recall reading anything about the Pearch case back then but did read about it from your posting. I'm also grateful you had the composite of TRM put on the DoeNet. It helped a lot. I rejected it at first because it didn't look so clear and I guess I was looking for an exact copy of what I saw years ago. Much later I went back to it and took a good look - printed it and tried to compare it to Coffey's pic. I could force the forehead and receding hairline areas and possibly the chin but everything in between is just too far off. From the front as far as I can remember his chin didn't look as long as it did from the side to me yet if you know what you're looking for you can see it in the composite.
I'm pondering a question in my mind now as to whether everybody ages with some recognizable resemblance to their younger self and thinking they might not. Nothing to compare with yet. Nothing to grasp that I can say possitively, Yah, it's him. Either it's him or there was another man in the area, that being TRM. However, I've checked some images online for the long chin and found it in some people in the Coffey line or at least appears to be.
I prefer the composite on the left because it's him - the man I saw.
The one on the right makes him look younger and that's where all the confusion lies. .
Everything about him was contradictory and confusing when totally in the dark about his purposes but once the connection came from seeing the composite in the paper everything made sense concerning the way he was presenting himself to any strangers who might see him in the store. It was all an act to deceive.
Even when I was looking at him I pegged him in his 30's but when I was asked his age I struggled back and forth between what I sensed and what I was looking at and finally said, "About 50 because of the white hair." That was my initial phone call to MCP. At that time, I hadn't done any research yet except to find the Lyon sisters website information and hadn't found Coffey's pic on NC Dpt of Corr website. All I could say at that time was: "I have a face with no name and a name with no face" - so, I eventually went looking for a face and a name to match after that first phone call.
Even though I think it has to be Coffey there's not enough evidence to confirm yet to myself or anyone else, that TRM and Coffey are the same person. That's why I thought if I could get a pic of him from 1974 he had to look similar to what he looked like in '75 - IF-it was him. Now, even that's questionable since I've heard he kept changing his hair color back and forth from black to salt and pepper and in my sighting was pure white.

Here's a thought about the long chin: years ago my grandmother had 2 male cousins who were also cousins to each other, descendents from the same surname as her's. They looked enough alike to be brothers, almost twins and had similar sense of humor. Several years ago, I began emailing a man in the U.K. from a branch of the same surname and asked for a pic of him. I've never met the man face to face. To my surprise he looked very much like these two male cousins, indicating possible dominant hereditary features. Hence, in desperation I went looking for the long chin, not for facial resemblence. It was a stretch but it does seem to show up in some Coffey members. Nothing you can take to the bank, though. The search is still on for something to confirm it's the same person.
 
I did a search for Fred Coffey and this came up in a guestbook.

Name : Mel Dorsey City/St. : Cleveland, GA Comment : The Ajax was my first (and best) duty station. Came aboard as a SA and left as an SH2. Rode her back to San Diego from Sasebo. Anyone remember my pal Fred Coffey, OM3? Designator/Rate : SH Division : S-3 Years aboard, Example: 1964-66 : 1968-72 Email: : kf4buk@hemc.net
http://geocities.yahoo.com/gb/view?member=the_benjo_maru&.start=11
 
georgiagirl said:
I did a search for Fred Coffey and this came up in a guestbook.

Name : Mel Dorsey City/St. : Cleveland, GA Comment : The Ajax was my first (and best) duty station. Came aboard as a SA and left as an SH2. Rode her back to San Diego from Sasebo. Anyone remember my pal Fred Coffey, OM3? Designator/Rate : SH Division : S-3 Years aboard, Example: 1964-66 : 1968-72 Email: : kf4buk@hemc.net
http://geocities.yahoo.com/gb/view?member=the_benjo_maru&.start=11
Fred did serve a tour on the west coast about that time. I am checking into it.
 
georgiagirl said:
I did a search for Fred Coffey and this came up in a guestbook.

Name : Mel Dorsey City/St. : Cleveland, GA Comment : The Ajax was my first (and best) duty station. Came aboard as a SA and left as an SH2. Rode her back to San Diego from Sasebo. Anyone remember my pal Fred Coffey, OM3? Designator/Rate : SH Division : S-3 Years aboard, Example: 1964-66 : 1968-72 Email: : kf4buk@hemc.net
http://geocities.yahoo.com/gb/view?member=the_benjo_maru&.start=11
Good job Georgiagirl! I`m all over it. I Emailed Mel Dorsey to see if we`re talking about the same Coffey.
 
Jeb said:
Good job Georgiagirl! I`m all over it. I Emailed Mel Dorsey to see if we`re talking about the same Coffey.
Great Jeb! I am anxious to hear a reply!
 
georgiagirl said:
Great Jeb! I am anxious to hear a reply!
All indications are, he`s looking for a diffrent Coffey. I`m not satisfied yet, & will pursue.
 
Jeb, please check your messages. Hope I did it right. If missing, let me know.
 
ShurlT said:
After I sent the info about the two boys to MCP I was told they didn't talk to NJ police. I wonder if they would have more info and also all the other disappearances in PA that they have not published on the websites. I'm tempted to take a trip to Littlestown one of these days to see if there is more info available in old newspapers somewhere. If I'd have to go to Harrisburg to find them I don't think I can do that.
Send to me and I will forward it to teh Maryland Clearinghouse. Marylandmissing@yahoo.com
 
georgiagirl said:
I did a search for Fred Coffey and this came up in a guestbook.... The Ajax was my first (and best) duty station. ...
Here is what the man had to say when asked if his friend named Fred Coffey was the same Fred Coffey currently in a NC Prison:


Yeah, a lady contacted me and sent an image of the
guy your talking about. Definitely not the same chap.
The Coffey I knew would be about my age now, 56.
He was short and real curly headed. I am pretty sure
he was from Chicago, as I recall. Real nice fellow and
very good guitar player.
 
Richard said:
Here is what the man had to say when asked if his friend named Fred Coffey was the same Fred Coffey currently in a NC Prison:


Yeah, a lady contacted me and sent an image of the
guy your talking about. Definitely not the same chap.
The Coffey I knew would be about my age now, 56.
He was short and real curly headed. I am pretty sure
he was from Chicago, as I recall. Real nice fellow and
very good guitar player.
Thanks Richard! Guess that is not the Fred Coffey we are looking for!
 
I just discovered NC Dept of Corrections changed Coffey's birthdate from 3-20-1945 to 3-19-1945. If accurate it means he was born on Monday, not Tuesday. There were thoughts of possible connection/pattern that his birthday of Tuesday corresponded with the PA and MD abductions occurring on Tuesdays. My printout of 10-22-2004 shows the 20th. The printout of 8-10-2005 shows the 19th. I just rechecked the site and it shows the 19th. Wonder what happened here?
 
ShurlT said:
I just discovered NC Dept of Corrections changed Coffey's birthdate from 3-20-1945 to 3-19-1945. ... Wonder what happened here?
Maybe he complained about always receiving his birthday cards late. I wonder if he got a cake this year?
 
LOL, Richard. Cracked me up. Good way to start the day. Have a good one.
 
Richard said:
Maybe he complained about always receiving his birthday cards late. I wonder if he got a cake this year?
Hopefully not one with a file in it.
 
I had similar thoughts, Fronkensteen. Afraid I'd have to implode. Just kidding.
 
Yesterday's new thoughts:

1. IF TRM had taken my girls that night and IF he had something to do with the disappearance of the two boys in New Lisbon, NJ that would have been a total of 3 double abductions within a very short period of time.

2. Three abductions, NC, PA and NJ, not all in 1975, that Coffey may have been responsible for were children from some type of foster care home or in the case of the two boys - a state school. Is this significant or of no consequence?

3. If Coffey was responsible for Tracy King's disappearance, July 8 and Kathy Lynn Beatty's attack, July 24th, is this an indication that he had stepped up his activity or was it rage because he didn't get my girls?

4. I'm pretty sure I saw TRM a few weeks before Kathy's attack. Possibly the last week of June on either a Monday or Tuesday because I was in Murphy's specifically to pick up an invoice book that I should have bought over the weekend and failed to do so. Someone was going to pick up my work on Wed and I had pushed myself too close to the deadline. I expected to be able to just run in and pick up the book quickly and leave. To my dismay, the store had changed the books they were selling and increased the various types available. I spent a long time going through all of them to find the right type that would fit the kind of work I was doing. Hence it was daylight when we went in and dark when we left.

5. I have a picture of Fred Howard Coffey, Jr., now, that appears to be from a newspaper and has his name printed below it. Though it doesn't match the TRM composite exactly, there is something familiar around the eyes. Too much heavy shading around the nose, checks and chin prevents seeing other features clearly. The hair has been lightened which helps. At least, he actually looks 30 in this pic. The composite, on the other hand, is pretty close to an exact match of the TRM I saw. I had a frontal and side view of him about 7-8 ft away. Since I'm shorter than he was I got a look at part of his jaw from beneath. I may know someone who might be able to clear up the heavy shading. I'd have to send it away because they're not in the area and don't know if they would return it to me quickly.
There is some resemblance so if Coffey and TRM are not the same man, I now think they are either related or possibly in cahoots in some way. I recognize something but don't know what it is.
I don't know how it could be possible that Coffey would be working with another person since the Charlotte Observer stated he is a loner. I've wondered sometimes if his father might have been involved.

The other far fetched idea would be: Is Coffey clever enough to know how to change his features with make up or something to look a little older and his face to look flat a little around the eyes? He certainly changes his hair around enough. I don't remember anything about his mouth but the composite captures TRM's expression from eybrows to below the mouth so I know without a doubt it's the man I saw. It didn't seem to me that anything about his face was unusual or fake in any way.
The picture could be him but I'd rather be sure before I say without a doubt it's the same person.
 
ShurlT said:
Yesterday's new thoughts:.... Three abductions, NC, PA and NJ, not all in 1975, that Coffey may have been responsible for were children from some type of foster care home or in the case of the two boys - a state school. Is this significant or of no consequence?....

... the composite captures TRM's expression from eybrows to below the mouth so I know without a doubt it's the man I saw. It didn't seem to me that anything about his face was unusual or fake in any way. The picture could be him but I'd rather be sure before I say without a doubt it's the same person.
The fact that some of the missing children were from foster care/institiutinal settings is significant for a couple of reasons. First, they may have been more prone to "running away" for periods of time, and might have been more prone to accept a ride or attention of a stranger. Second, the person who abducted them certainly homed in on them for some reason, possibly because he sensed that they were easy targets.

I would not agonize too much about the sketch of TRM. Remember that it was only a representatation as described by a 13 year-old boy. Sometimes composite drawings turn out to be right on the mark, while other times they do not look at all like the person. Then you get anything and everything in between - maybe some resemblence is all you can hope for.

Frankly, a reason that some investigators do not like publishing composite sketches is that they make people focus on the drawing as an absolute. There might be people who would have turned in a suspect if they had NOT seen a composite and in their mind ruled out the person they might have suspected.
 
Richard, I also suspicioned there may have be a good reason for foster care/institional abductions like vunerability and also wondered if the abductor struck on the idea of snatching kids from these areas because he may have been in that situation himself at one time. I always want to understand why and how things happen.

The newspaper picture I now have appears to be of an actual photograph of F H Coffey, Jr. Possibly his Vitro picture. The hair matches the composite fairly close, ears close to head, forehead broad as I told Lt. Mandano and probably put into the above description I put on this site, similar eyebrows. Something I keep seeing around the eyes matches but, the heavy shading from below both eyes in the pic, across the nose, down both cheeks graduates from light heavy to very dark heavy preventing me from seeing the actual jaw line on either side and no expression around the mouth. He appears to have no upper lip as in the prison photo. I've been going around the house for days hiding my upper lip into my lower lip wondering if he did this to hide his lips. Since the same thing occurs in the prision photo it's either natural or he deliberately hides his lips in photos. I think you may have been the one who pointed out the man in the composite had thick lips. Since I have no recollection of his lips I have to by-pass that and stick to what is firm in my mind that I recall of TRM allowing that the composite may have areas in it that I have no memory about because my attention was on those areas that stood out and on his strange behavior.

Up to 1975 I had worked 20 years in what's now called Data Entry field but was not called that back then. My attention to detail had been pretty well honed by that time. It's still a part of my nature tho age is taking it's toll but I have to be sure it's the same man before I say positively it is. I don't want to mis-ID someone.

Now, we also have to keep in mind that the night I saw TRM his hair was possibly bleached pure white and could have been what's called "Styled" possibly by him and possibly at the in between hair cut stage where it would have been a little bit longer allowing it to be combed a little higher in the front, possibly teased, smoother waves on top (Coffey's hair looks kinky in the pic) and puffed out on the sides above the ears. All this puffy, standing up. wavy hair made his head look larger. That's another thing I see in the pic - he's big boned, appears to have good sized head and that's not to imply out of proportion. In fact, there's nothing "slight" or "frail" looking about him in this picture and it is Fred because it's labelled with his name and appears to be newsprint and not hand written.

The composite on the left - DoeNet - is on the mark for the TRM I saw. I'm questioning if he might have been sick or on drugs or alcohol that might have made the skin around his eyes look flat and drawn.

A nearby church had a video of an interview by Dr. James Robinson with Ted Bundy, at Bundy's request, the night before he was executed, I believe it was. In answer to a question about the need to drink prior to...Bundy told Dr. Robinson that in order for him to do the things he was doing he had to get drunk first. Dr. Robinson tried to sell this video to the news media but they wouldn't buy so it's never been seen by the public and is quite long and informative about what he was doing, how he got into it and how it progressed. I haven't been to this church in years and it has a new pastor I hear so couldn't say if they still have the video but I think there's a good chance they do. They have a small library in the church building. I have to assume it's still there. Anyway, that makes me wonder if TRM may have had another vice that might be causing facial changes. Just thoughts all over the place that don't solve anything. The answers would only give more info about the man, if positive. Not necessarily useful.

I emailed my cousin tonight who stopped last Wed to visit a couple hours on the way home to another state. She was telling me about two family members who know how to clean up photos and this was in relationship to some old family photos I had copied for her that came up badly messed up. Had nothing to do with Coffey. Anyway, I'll be looking for an answer soon as to whether I can send a copy of this newspaper photo to her to give to them and see if they can fix it for me. I made several copies of both the small pic and the enlarged pic not realizing I might need them but I've learned to do that for just that reason.

I've finally figured out what I'm having trouble with. The photo looks like a younger TRM, so, what's going on here?.

Thanks for helping me out Richard and please keep commenting. It helps.
 
Richard, there's another case in Frederick, MD, that as far as I know has not been solved. A young girl around 14 or 15. Her decomposing body was found in a field next to an area where homeless people camped somewhere in the city of Frederick. She had a boyfriend and I think she lived in Walkersville,

I worked at a mortgage company in Frederick at the time on second shift and one day when I got to work several police cars were at the back entrance. After things died down from shift changes a woman there, surname FISHER, kept walking around the department saying, "My son didn't do this. My son didn't do this," to everyone around. Sometime later that night she talked with me privately and told me the police had been there that afternoon because of the death of this young girl and that her son was boyfriend to the girl. That his lawyer said if the police found any evidence like some of his hair on her body he would be a suspect but because they had been together that day didn't mean he had killed her. She was a nice lady and I felt sorry for her.

Naturally, talk began to spread for several days after and a group of girls at lunch told some things they knew but I can't remember anything about that conversation. Some of it was speculation. One woman implied she knew something and had every intention of telling the police what she knew but she wouldn't divulge to us what she was talking about. She was pretty fired up about it. I don't recall who any of these ladies were. We all just happened to sit at the same table that day. I also think the fired up lady was getting ready to leave the company and maybe the area either that day or within the next few days but all this is vague memory. I just remember thinking how was she going to tell the police anything if she was leaving.

Some months later a young girl came to work on a temporary basis who knew the son and I think she said she went to school with him and had known him a long time. She told me privately that he was strange and that she had always thought he did it. I can't remember her name but I liked her.

The best I can do to place the time frame for this would be sometime between Sep 1996 to Aug 1997, give or take on both ends.

If you can find any information on this case would you put it up as a new thread on WebSleuths, please?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
117
Guests online
4,065
Total visitors
4,182

Forum statistics

Threads
593,598
Messages
17,989,703
Members
229,168
Latest member
SweetCandy
Back
Top