Somer Thompson POI Pre-Trial Discussion

[Kimberlyd125]

I guess if this topic is of no interest to some readers, then perhaps it should not be read.
JH knew that LE had his computer.

LE looked at Grandpa Watson's computer RIGHT AWAY!

I am mystified by many things LE did. Most of all why they did not release that she was sexually abused. Why not? I agree with Chicken Pants that if that had been released, people might have been looking harder .

If it wasn't for Rod B, I don't think this case would have been solved.

human: It's not about "this topic" it's about "these many topics" on one thread. If we were going to have a general discussion thread, why did we need a sub forum? If it is seperated by topic, it's better organized. You post on one topic, stay on that topic and it's organized. Normally when we have a sub forum, we don't discuss several topics on one thread.
That's why I'm confused.
It's not that I'm not interested, it's that it jumps around all over the place.

 

[ChickenPants]

I would be interested in anyone's views hypothetically; if today, this case went to trial, having ONLY the information we have, how would one prosecute the accused?

It seems largely a circumstantial case (the child peripheral to the murder), i.e. these are things that went down, as I understand them and please feel free to fill in the blanks of what I am forgetting:

1. We know that JH had child on his computer and other places; it has been alleged that he sexually molested and photographed his niece when she was 3 years old;

2. That he engaged in posing and manipulating minor girls to photograph them - this based on his hands being identified;

3. That he lived in the vicinity of Somer's walk to and from school and that she was a free spirit who roamed around and was friendly and affectionate to everybody;

4. That he had a dog she petted;

5. That she was seen near his home by at least one person petting his dog, and also seen sitting across the street on a curb looking sad;

6. She disappeared October 19 after disengaging herself from her siblings; found murdered; her autopsy revealed (?) or it has been established by other means - she was sexually battered before or after she was murdered;

7. Her body discovered in a dumpster in another state and there remain controversies over dumpsters and who found where when;

8. JH and his mother claim they were at the home, went out to eat and gas up vehicles as an alibi and JH's mother reminds him of this when he is freaking out later in jail;

9. LE had custody of computer, LE came to his house and him interviewed him early on in investigation, he was cooperative, he and the house raised no suspicions at that time and he remained in the area apparently unfazed, before he left for another state;

10. Months in, Buchanan reminds LE about computer and having seen JH in his house, he is tracked and arrested, the governor gets involved, and he is then extradited back to FL on those original child charges. JH refuses to give DNA and (in statements to his mother overheard) accuses LE of filling out the arrest report incorrectly, which delayed the process and made him unable to speak to an attorney until it was rectified;

11. At the time of the arrest, LE states publicly that the arrest no relationship to the child's murder, but a million dollar bond is ordered related to the computer charges and he is placed in solitary confinement. All of this is discussed in the media; the general perception that he is guilty and people are relieved that he is off the streets and he is named a POI.

12. At some point, LE
- re-entered JH's home and emerged with new evidence
- spoke to JH and he allegedly made "admissions" that indicate he was familiar with the victim; a DNA match is made.
- LE will not say that he confessed to the crime

13. After some time, LE comes forward with more specific information (cause of death) and releases to the public the charges. The charges specify other activities and that Somer was sexually battered. The attorney general places a gag on further information, details of manner of death are not released. JH becomes the number one Suspect, but LE refuses to make statement ruling out other suspects, JH pleads "not guilty" and has obtained a defense attorney.

Could he be convicted on the above? When I review it, I want to know how evidence was discovered at the second investigation of the home (after he had time to get rid of evidence), what statements he made that are not classifed as a "confession" and under what circumstances and witnessed by whom; how the DNA was collected and where it was found; when - as precisely as possible - the sexual battery occurred, and a very thorough explanation of how he managed to kill the child and dispose of the body within such a short timeline. Why LE will not rule out other suspects, is the investigation still open or is it technically closed? Otherwise, I cannot convict because there are "reasonable doubts". And every single one of those doubts can be removed by information from LE.

 

[Sunshine77]

It's not the job of LE to try this case in the media, but rather in a courtroom. I wouldn't convict JH on what has been released thus far. That is what a trial is for. The media is notorious for reporting incorrect/incomplete/sensational information.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

It's not the job of LE to try this case in the media, but rather in a courtroom. I wouldn't convict JH on what has been released thus far. That is what a trial is for. The media is notorious for reporting incorrect/incomplete/sensational information.

I agree. If they didn't think they had enough to get a conviction, they would not have charged him IMO.

Also, the fact they have not said other suspects are cleared is a no brainer IMO. I don't think, in any case I have followed, I have ever seen LE come out after they have charged someone with murder, and give a list of cleared people. They have charged JH, therefore, there are no other suspects, no one to clear. He went from POI to suspect to charged.
So I guess you can say, everyone except JH has been cleared.

JMO

 

[ChickenPants]

It's not the job of LE to try this case in the media, but rather in a courtroom. I wouldn't convict JH on what has been released thus far. That is what a trial is for. The media is notorious for reporting incorrect/incomplete/sensational information.

I agree with you. But the people seem to be trying the case because of the media. Not everyone knows, like you, or accepts, that the media is often innacurate. IMO this jeopardizes the case, pro or con...that's why I think word clarification would help.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I personally am going by what came out of LE's mouths, not the media.

 

[ChickenPants]

I agree. If they didn't think they had enough to get a conviction, they would not have charged him IMO.

Also, the fact they have not said other suspects are cleared is a no brainer IMO. I don't think, in any case I have followed, I have ever seen LE come out after they have charged someone with murder, and give a list of cleared people. They have charged JH, therefore, there are no other suspects, no one to clear. He went from POI to suspect to charged.
So I guess you can say, everyone except JH has been cleared.

JMO

That makes sense for sure. What has bothered me is that they have clarified some things and not others and I am sure they have their reasons.

For instance, when he was initially arrested, they went out and made sure everyone knew it was not connected with the murder. That may have been because they did not want people to think he was automatically being set up for it, or possibly as a way to get him to relax and let go of more information? IDK.

I remember way, way back when they released that criminal profile. They kept sending out messages that somebody knew something and was not coming forward - in fact, IIRC didn't sheriff say those words or similar words? At that time, I got the impression they were trying to make people look at friends or family members. That whole issue kind of died out. The sexual predator possibility was not commented on after the RSO's were ruled out. Not until JH arrested and then a lot of people said, "see? I THOUGHT it would turn out to be that".

Initially, Mary Justino and Beseler pointedly stated they were not going to discuss ANY particulars of the investigation. Then there was that bizarre issue of the pink lunch box and book bag - even putting a prototype out in the media. That, too, fizzled. It was strange because the first bookbag on the MPR was a black one, which changed to Miley Cyrus, etc. Then all of a sudden everybody was searching for the pink skull and crossbones. That caused all kinds of speculation on cults, etc. As people have said, this has all been gone over.

My point being that there has been a strong attempt to clarify some things and what seems to be an equally strong attempt to avoid others. As you say, certainly they have their reasons.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Here is a copy of the transcript from Sheriff Rick Besler's statement after JH was charged...

http://wokv.com/localnews/2010/03/read-the-sheriffs-statement.html

Snipped:

Harrell's name first surfaced not long after Somer's death as one of over 4,000 leads given to Team Somer in the days and weeks after the crime. As we began to scrutinize Harrell and his activities, he emerged as a person of interest. After obtaining a sample of DNA from Harrell, the tedious process of comparison analysis began. If it was apparent the public was impatient with how long the investigation was taking, just imagine the pressure on investigators. But the pressure to work fast never overshadowed the need to do it right and investigators proceeded carefully with their work.
While I know there is intense interest in knowing all of the details of the investigation and all of the evidence that has led us to this point, it is still necessary to protect the integrity of the future prosecution of this case.
I can tell you that in order to get to this point investigators have relied on statements from witnesses, admissions from the defendant, DNA technology results and evidence that Harrell was at the location on Gano Avenue when Somer disappeared along with other evidence.
I will also tell you that based on that evidence, along with our investigation, we are confident Jarred Harrell committed this crime; therefore we are bringing this murder charge today.


BBM


This is not from the media, this was a prepared statement.

 

[ChickenPants]

I personally am going by what came out of LE's mouths, not the media.

Exactly, my point, K. But what comes out of LE's mouth is either given directly via presser or quoted in or out of context by media. A lot has gotten mixed up that way. Consider the dumpster and who suggested it drama. Sheriff says this, media says that, Sheriff comes back and clarifies that, media reports this or that and everybody becomes dumpster disabled. If everybody was like you, that would be consistent. But a lot of people DO believe what the media says.

One impact of that is that LE is an elected office. They will have to depend on public support and satisfaction to hold office. It does not appear to have a connection, but realistically, politics are a part of the whole scene. If they were not, the LE would be appointed, not elected by the people. There is a reason the people are given the choice. A classic example is them needing the governor to extradite JH back to Florida. There were a lot of agencies involved, all to one extent or another, all held accountable for something, all will profit or lose by the outcome of the case to some degree.

Sheriff Beseler probably never dreamed he would be put into such a high profile case. It must be a source of anxiety and frustration to him personally.

 

[ChickenPants]

Here is a copy of the transcript from Sheriff Rick Besler's statement after JH was charged...

http://wokv.com/localnews/2010/03/read-the-sheriffs-statement.html

Snipped:

Harrell's name first surfaced not long after Somer's death as one of over 4,000 leads given to Team Somer in the days and weeks after the crime. As we began to scrutinize Harrell and his activities, he emerged as a person of interest. After obtaining a sample of DNA from Harrell, the tedious process of comparison analysis began. If it was apparent the public was impatient with how long the investigation was taking, just imagine the pressure on investigators. But the pressure to work fast never overshadowed the need to do it right and investigators proceeded carefully with their work.
While I know there is intense interest in knowing all of the details of the investigation and all of the evidence that has led us to this point, it is still necessary to protect the integrity of the future prosecution of this case.
I can tell you that in order to get to this point investigators have relied on statements from witnesses, admissions from the defendant, DNA technology results and evidence that Harrell was at the location on Gano Avenue when Somer disappeared along with other evidence.
I will also tell you that based on that evidence, along with our investigation, we are confident Jarred Harrell committed this crime; therefore we are bringing this murder charge today.


BBM


This is not from the media, this was a prepared statement.

Yes, I am familiar with this. It was quoted accurately in the media, from what I recall. Not too much you can do to spin this. There it is, plain and simple.

Now all they have to do is take that information and convince a jury. I am interested in that process. The investigation to this point and what comes after are the purpose of my starting the thread, discussing what may or may not occur based on what we know or do not yet know. Thanks.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Yes, I am familiar with this. It was quoted accurately in the media, from what I recall. Not too much you can do to spin this. There it is, plain and simple.

Now all they have to do is take that information and convince a jury. I am interested in that process. The investigation to this point and what comes after are the purpose of my starting the thread, discussing what may or may not occur based on what we know or do not yet know. Thanks.

Simple...what WE know...not much
what LE knows....a whole heck of a lot more.

And that's how it should be.

Just because LE has not told us EVERYTHING they have, does not mean they don't have it.

Again, if they did not think they could get a conviction, they would not have charged him. That's just that simple.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

My honest opinion on this is that so many people wanted to believe a certain person, not JH, was guilty or involved in this crime so now they are having a hard time believing JH could be the murderer. No matter how much LE gives them, they will not be satisfied.

Grasping at straws and wanting info we don't have does nothing for JUSTICE FOR SOMER.

Justice will be served by LE investigating and gathering evidence against him.

He was indicted and will stand trial for this. They must have a lot of evidence IMO.

 

[Sunshine77]

Yes, I am familiar with this. It was quoted accurately in the media, from what I recall. Not too much you can do to spin this. There it is, plain and simple.

Now all they have to do is take that information and convince a jury. I am interested in that process. The investigation to this point and what comes after are the purpose of my starting the thread, discussing what may or may not occur based on what we know or do not yet know. Thanks.

I guess that is why I'm confused by many of your posts on this thread. You seems to understand that only so much has been released, but still press on in questioning many aspects of the case that we don't have answers to yet. I, too, am very interested in the investigative process, others who may have been ruled out, and what evidence points to JH besides the scant details already given. But, until more is released, it just seems we are rehashing the same points over and over (not that I see anything wrong with this, as I'm participating in it lol). Maybe closer to or after his next court, more will be released.

 

[JBean]

closed til further notice. Please break the convo out into separate topic discussion. This looks like it is a general discussion thread, but I have not had a chance to review and will do so shortly.
BBL

 

[JBean]

I'm not being rude here, but all of this has been discussed over and over and hashed out and rehashed in 40 something threads.
I'm not real sure what this thread is for.

I was under the impression that when Somer got a sub forum, that we could open a thread on a specific topic and discuss that topic.

So far on this thread we have discussed at least 10 topics. Maybe we need to open a thread for each topic?

I thought that was how it worked. So everything would be more organized.

This post is exactly correct. We do not have general discussion threads anymore, but rather an entire forum. What this means is that each thread should be topic specific and posters should stay on that topic.
When the trial starts or as existing information develops or more is revealed, it is nearly impossible to pull the hard work and research that has already been done by other members if it is not broken into specific threads.

if there is a topic that already has a thread and you would like to continue the discussion, bump an old thread, or if no discussion on a specific topic exists, please start a thread. New members may want to discuss old information, so all they have to do is find a thread and continue the discussion.

Thanks.

 

[JBean]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99838"]Threadiquette ask your questions here - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[JBean]

Seems to be some confusion on this thread, so maybe I can help.
The thread was reported to me by another moderator the first day it was opened because it apeared to be a general discussion thread, which we don;t have anymore.
Unfortunately i was moving and without internet so I let it go until I could get to it. In the mean time there were a handful of alerts from different members on this thread, so I realized I needed to make time.
This thread is a general discussion thread. We have a forum now so we don't have general discussion threads because that is what we try to get away from when a forum is created.
I am not speaking to any specific topic on this thread,but if there is a specific topic you would like to discuss, please start a thread with that topic in the title and that is what members will discuss.
I linked the threadiquette thread which reviews this and that thread is located at the top of this forum.

I know transitioning from a single thread to a forum can be confusing at times, but please take a moment to review other forums for format. When the trial starts, you will be so happy to be able to retrieve all the hard work done by the many posters on this forum by searching topic specific threads.
Thanks.