The last person to have seen Kyron

[believe09]

June 6 News Conference -

http://www.kptv.com/video/23812286/index.html

- The last time he was seen was here at the school, and that was on Friday about late, a late hour in the morning was the last time he was actually seen here at the school. Since that time we've developed no other additional information that's indicated that he was here beyond that point after our interviews with the children.

- He was seen not, he was seen near his classroom, and the last point was down at the south entrance door of the school.

- Actually that statement came from one of the children that was here earlier this morning that was interviewed.

BBM-dont you wish he had finished this thought, lol? "late 10AM, late 11AM" what were you going to say???

 

[Morag]

Hi Jules,
Have you seen that photo of the janitor walking past Kyron's classroom ? If you have, the South exit door is located down the stairway,on the ground floor. In other words,Kyron's classroom is very close to the exit door, which IIRC,leads to the South parking lot of the school. Might explain any confusion ; I'm pretty sure he was seen by the door to his classroom.

Oy, the North/South question! Apparently the unmonitored door is on the North side. At any rate, the pix of the school make it look as though there is a door (with no window above-as in the janitor pic) on the South side where the bus lanes are. That would be the monitored door, I think. And if he was seen going toward his classroom, he would be headed North, away from the South side entrance where he may/may not have been seen.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...on_horman.html

Two of the doorways are near the main office and are monitored, while a third on the north side of the school is not. Kyron's classroom is adjacent to that door, which opens onto a rear parking lot.

I look at the picture of Skyline, and I see the door on the North (more like NW) side, which is apparently under the window which the custodian is walking toward on this picture (http://media.oregonlive.com/oregonia...m_665xauto.jpg).

My post #14 on the Skyline Elementary School thread has additional information about aerial views of the school (and other locations).

 

[Garden Variety]

Horman's Desk Mate Says Substitute Noticed Him Missing
Last Update: 6/09 11:30 pm

snip the first person to notice Kyron Horman was missing was a substitute teacher who was taking a head count as the second and third grade class was re-assembling after visiting other classrooms for a science fair at Skyline School last Friday.

"And she was like 'oh no where's Kyron there's only five' and Mrs. Porter was like it's okay calm down, calm down he's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she said alright I'm going to leave and she left, " says Tanner Pumala.

snip Tanner says Kyron was in school for at least an hour Friday morning and that he saw Kyron's step-mother leave the school without Kyron.

snip Upon hearing the substitute teacher noticing that Kyron was not present in the classroom, Pumala says the regular teacher said Kyron had probably gone to get a drink of water or to use the bathroom.

snip Pumala's grandmother says F-B-I agents and Multnomah County investigators have asked Pumala and his grandmother not to speak with the media, for reasons they did not divulge. Fuhrur says she decided to allow her grandson talk snip

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/n...itute-Noticed-Him/TVY3YTREG0SyCP3tb3MkZg.cspx

It's the first paragraph above that really jumps out at me if, in fact, the reporting child is accurate. This goes to the issue of the timeline as follows:

1. Reporting child says that the sub teacher was taking a headcount as the class was re-assembling after visiting other classrooms. "And she was like Oh no, where's Kyron".

Two things here. The word reassembling implies that this little group of 5 or 6 had previous assembled meaning that Kyron was with a little group when they went on their science fair viewing stroll. If this is accurate, then there must be other corroborating children and a corroborating sub teacher. Or there is no corroboration and the child is mistaken. LE knows the answer to this from speaking with other children and parents.

And clearly this "gathering of the small groups to view the science fair" HAD to take place AFTER SM's last alleged reported sighting of him at 8:45 as he allegedly went down the hall to his classroom. Either he was or he wasn't in the small group that the sub teacher took on the tour of the fair. If he was, and the group tour occurred after the alleged 8:45 goodby, then that may put a different spin on this case for me.

When the group of 5 or 6 returned (reassembled) in their own classroom, the sub teacher says "oh no, Kyron's missing" the implication being that she had seem him and was presumably with him when they went on their small group tour, knew his name, and therefore was rightfully alarmed when he didn't turn up in the "Home room" classrom with the rest of her charges. The implication made by the reporting child is that Kyron disappeared sometime between the departure to tour the science fair with the sub teacher, and the return to the homeroom. This strikes me as highly unlikely.

2. If the reporting child believed that Kyron was in school for an hour on the day he went missing, I have about 16 questions for the poor kid. Others would be able to corroborate sightings of Kyron.


3. The reporting child's claim that he saw Kyron's step mom leave without him strikes me as possibly suspect. I would be very curious to know the facts and circumstances around his claim. He would have to have observed the SM physically exit the building with the door closing behind her to make that a credible statement, in my view. How likely is it that a 7 year old, on the exciting day of the science fair just happens to watch a parent exit the building, and that parent just happens to be associated with a missing friend?

4. I am in no way suggesting that the reporting child is fabricating this information. I have no reason to believe that the child doesn't believe his statements to be true. I am only suggesting that the fine details, which are so critical here, may have been beyond the capacity of this child to accurately articulate.

5. And finally, the reporting child's grandmother's proffer of his account of the event to the press is pretty shocking and outrageous parenting, particularly in view of the LE's request to refrain from public disclosure of the child's account.

 

[mysticrose]

LE (Staton) stated at the presser that the last person to see Kyron was a child they had interviewed. Interviewed the morning of the presser, in fact. That child may or may not be Tanner. But according to LE, the last person to see him was not his stepmother.


June 6 News Conference -

http://www.kptv.com/video/23812286/index.html

- The last time he was seen was here at the school, and that was on Friday about late, a late hour in the morning was the last time he was actually seen here at the school. Since that time we've developed no other additional information that's indicated that he was here beyond that point after our interviews with the children.

- He was seen not, he was seen near his classroom, and the last point was down at the south entrance door of the school.

- Actually that statement came from one of the children that was here earlier this morning that was interviewed.

Thanks BeanE I know, but something doesnt feel right for me thats all If I am wrong it certainly will not be the first time, I'll pull my big girl panties up ...

 

[jessigirl]

I don't think it's odd he was wondering where his friend was at. I think it's odd the teacher or whoever was responsible for Kyron didn't wonder.

Above BBM. I too agree with your above statement. I believe it has been explained that the "substitute" was actually a parent or adult volunteer chaperone and it got misconstrued that it was a substitute. IMO this being the last recall of Kyron(that we know of)says to me that he did indeed make it back to his classroom after waving bye to SM in the hall and WAS PUT IN A GROUP of 6 to be chaperoned by an adult to visit the science fair projects. And that this "chaperone" upon returning to the Mrs Porter's classroom with her /his group she once again did a final head count and expresses concern that there are now only 5 and Kyron is missing(this seems to me to be proof that Kyron was with the group in the beginning when they started the tour with the students in small groups)But what I find to be very strange is Mrs. Porter's alleged reaction to the chaperones concern of where Kyron is?:waitasecorter simply explains it away that hes probly in restroom or at water fountain. Does anyone else find this suspicious(to say the least) as an adult chaperone has verified and expressed to the teacher that 1 student from her group is no longer present(therefore validating that he was still in school when the tour began) but the teacher explains her thoughts of where she thinks he is at, yet when Kyron obviously never returned to the classroom(from his supposed bathroom or water break) that Mrs. Porter never mentions this to anyone, nor reports it, or looks for him, that he is just assumed and marked absent when the roll is called sometime after 10am. Can someone help me if I am some how misunderstanding this because to me this is very suspicious and downright inappropriate and irresponsible behaviors that could have wasted an entire school days time before it finally being realized after 330pm that Kyron was indeed gone? Anyone know?

 

[Wendy101]

IMO, it was the two school officials who last seen Kyron. They seen him leave with SM.

The SM reported the last time SHE seen Kyron was at school.. not that that was the last time Kyron was ever seen...

I have a hard time with words ...lol.. Am I making any sense?

 

[amethyst221]

Above BBM. I too agree with your above statement. I believe it has been explained that the "substitute" was actually a parent or adult volunteer chaperone and it got misconstrued that it was a substitute. IMO this being the last recall of Kyron(that we know of)says to me that he did indeed make it back to his classroom after waving bye to SM in the hall and WAS PUT IN A GROUP of 6 to be chaperoned by an adult to visit the science fair projects. And that this "chaperone" upon returning to the Mrs Porter's classroom with her /his group she once again did a final head count and expresses concern that there are now only 5 and Kyron is missing(this seems to me to be proof that Kyron was with the group in the beginning when they started the tour with the students in small groups)But what I find to be very strange is Mrs. Porter's alleged reaction to the chaperones concern of where Kyron is?:waitasecorter simply explains it away that hes probly in restroom or at water fountain. Does anyone else find this suspicious(to say the least) as an adult chaperone has verified and expressed to the teacher that 1 student from her group is no longer present(therefore validating that he was still in school when the tour began) but the teacher explains her thoughts of where she thinks he is at, yet when Kyron obviously never returned to the classroom(from his supposed bathroom or water break) that Mrs. Porter never mentions this to anyone, nor reports it, or looks for him, that he is just assumed and marked absent when the roll is called sometime after 10am. Can someone help me if I am some how misunderstanding this because to me this is very suspicious and downright inappropriate and irresponsible behaviors that could have wasted an entire school days time before it finally being realized after 330pm that Kyron was indeed gone? Anyone know?

Sorry to just pop in from lurking, but you are reading this "reassembled" language the same way that I do. If true, it would mean that a teacher alerted to the absence and failure to reappear of a student just recently there took no action other than the offering of a hypothetical reason. That doesn't ring true somehow, especially since it would sort of pinpoint the actual time of disappearance and has gone unremarked. I'm speculating, though, since I know nothing of what LE knows about witness statements, conflicts, confusion, etc.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi Jules,
Have you seen that photo of the janitor walking past Kyron's classroom ? If you have, the South exit door is located down the stairway,on the ground floor. In other words,Kyron's classroom is very close to the exit door, which IIRC,leads to the South parking lot of the school. Might explain any confusion ; I'm pretty sure he was seen by the door to his classroom.

I actually think there are two witnesses that saw Kyron after his mom left.

1. Tanner who saw him at the door of the classroom.
2. Unidentified witness that saw him by the south door.

I have always wondered where the electric exhibit was located. Since the entire school was having science exhibits was the exhibit downstairs on the first level and Kyron went down the stairs on his way to where it was located?

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO, it was the two school officials who last seen Kyron. They seen him leave with SM.

The SM reported the last time SHE seen Kyron was at school.. not that that was the last time Kyron was ever seen...

I have a hard time with words ...lol.. Am I making any sense?

I dont think they saw him leave with his mother.

I think they THOUGHT (assumed) he had left with his mother.

IMO

 

[jessigirl]

IMO, it was the two school officials who last seen Kyron. They seen him leave with SM.

The SM reported the last time SHE seen Kyron was at school.. not that that was the last time Kyron was ever seen...

I have a hard time with words ...lol.. Am I making any sense?

Yes Zaha, you are making sense So, now what about this statement...
snip the first person to notice Kyron Horman was missing was a substitute teacher who was taking a head count as the second and third grade class was re-assembling after visiting other classrooms for a science fair at Skyline School last Friday.
**IMO ITS BEEN SHOWN THAT "SUBSTITUTE"WAS ACTUALLY AN ADULT CHAPERONE FOR THE SMALL GROUP OF 6 THAT KYRON WAS IN TO TOUR THE FAIR**
~cont'd snip~
"And she was like 'oh no where's Kyron there's only five' and Mrs. Porter was like it's okay calm down, calm down he's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she said alright I'm going to leave and she left, " says Tanner Pumala.

** So my question is if this above statement is true(&LE is fuilly aware at this point just who the chaperone was and if this is true)But if we are to believe this statement then Kyron wasnt last seen with SM by school employees. It would have been this chaperone that assembled the group of 6 with Kyron bcuz IMO for her to realize Kyron was missing upon returning to Porters classroom and doing the final headcount she would have had to originally seen and counted him as 1 of the 6 in her group when leaving out of classroom to tour the fair.. Right? ... Am I making any sense:crazy:?

 

[jessigirl]

Sorry to just pop in from lurking, but you are reading this "reassembled" language the same way that I do. If true, it would mean that a teacher alerted to the absence and failure to reappear of a student just recently there took no action other than the offering of a hypothetical reason. That doesn't ring true somehow, especially since it would sort of pinpoint the actual time of disappearance and has gone unremarked. I'm speculating, though, since I know nothing of what LE knows about witness statements, conflicts, confusion, etc.

YES! YES! YES! That is EXACTLY WHAT I WAS SAYING! So you are understanding it to mean exactly as I do. So, either this statement has to be false or if true then it gives a much smaller window of time that his disappearance occured(8:45-10am) and second, if true, this teacher should be held accountable for her downright flippant behavior about where Kyron was but MOST IMPORTANT that when he never returned from where she assumed he was (bathrm or water fountain)what is the explaination of why the child was simply marked absent and not reported that he had never returned from the bathroom and water fountain??

ETA: IIRC it was also brought to the teachers attention that Kyron's backpack and jacket were there in the classroom also..

 

[mommya]

I feel that the last person to see Kyron (the unidentified person at 9am)
- saw him with someone.

They were seen in the school building though and not specifically walking outside and getting into a car or anything.

LE can't say this person took Kyron as the link is just not direct enough.

You can bet they are checking this person out though.

I just can't believe they've kept a tight enough lid on their POI so that leaks have not occurred.

 

[Billylee]

It's the first paragraph above that really jumps out at me if, in fact, the reporting child is accurate. This goes to the issue of the timeline as follows:

1. Reporting child says that the sub teacher was taking a headcount as the class was re-assembling after visiting other classrooms. "And she was like Oh no, where's Kyron".

Two things here. The word reassembling implies that this little group of 5 or 6 had previous assembled meaning that Kyron was with a little group when they went on their science fair viewing stroll. If this is accurate, then there must be other corroborating children and a corroborating sub teacher. Or there is no corroboration and the child is mistaken. LE knows the answer to this from speaking with other children and parents.

And clearly this "gathering of the small groups to view the science fair" HAD to take place AFTER SM's last alleged reported sighting of him at 8:45 as he allegedly went down the hall to his classroom. Either he was or he wasn't in the small group that the sub teacher took on the tour of the fair. If he was, and the group tour occurred after the alleged 8:45 goodby, then that may put a different spin on this case for me.

When the group of 5 or 6 returned (reassembled) in their own classroom, the sub teacher says "oh no, Kyron's missing" the implication being that she had seem him and was presumably with him when they went on their small group tour, knew his name, and therefore was rightfully alarmed when he didn't turn up in the "Home room" classrom with the rest of her charges. The implication made by the reporting child is that Kyron disappeared sometime between the departure to tour the science fair with the sub teacher, and the return to the homeroom. This strikes me as highly unlikely.

2. If the reporting child believed that Kyron was in school for an hour on the day he went missing, I have about 16 questions for the poor kid. Others would be able to corroborate sightings of Kyron.


3. The reporting child's claim that he saw Kyron's step mom leave without him strikes me as possibly suspect. I would be very curious to know the facts and circumstances around his claim. He would have to have observed the SM physically exit the building with the door closing behind her to make that a credible statement, in my view. How likely is it that a 7 year old, on the exciting day of the science fair just happens to watch a parent exit the building, and that parent just happens to be associated with a missing friend?

4. I am in no way suggesting that the reporting child is fabricating this information. I have no reason to believe that the child doesn't believe his statements to be true. I am only suggesting that the fine details, which are so critical here, may have been beyond the capacity of this child to accurately articulate.

5. And finally, the reporting child's grandmother's proffer of his account of the event to the press is pretty shocking and outrageous parenting, particularly in view of the LE's request to refrain from public disclosure of the child's account.

snip the first person to notice Kyron Horman was missing was a substitute teacher who was taking a head count as the second and third grade class was re-assembling after visiting other classrooms for a science fair at Skyline School last Friday.

Is that Tanner saying the above that's bolded in that article? I take it as the reporter saying that, which sounds like it came from the sub teacher?

I totally agree on the re-assembling. If they were put into groups someone was counting heads when they were put in the groups. Which I'm guessing was at 9:00 a.m.

I am wondering if the "about an hour" means from the time Kyron got there, 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. Then Tanner's statement would make sense. As far as him seeing the step mom leave without him, he could have been standing in the hallway walking to class right next to Kyron. If what little Tanner is saying is what transpired, then it sounds to me like Kyron disappeared moments after they headed out to the science fair, and the chaperon didn't notice him missing until back in class at 10:00.

If this is the case, and I'm not saying it is, because they haven't made this very clear, then it could be one of the reason's that LE is not talking about who saw him last, because this chaperon is probably totally beside herself from letting the little guy out of her sight. Could you imagine the guilt and grief? You volunteer to help out at school, which means you're probably a pretty good person anyway, and then you lose a kid? Why put her through more agony by releasing her name? OMG

 

[rpipergirl]

I have read that there was NO substitute teacher .......I am very curious to find out who the person was that did the head count?????? Also.... why did Mrs. Porter have to tell Tanner to calm down? Just seems odd, that Tanner would have been worried THAT EARLY ON.

Mrs. Porter was telling the sub to calm down not Tanner. I find it odd that at that point the sub just said ok I'm leaving. :waitasec:
Why didn't the teacher go look for Kyron after a short time of him not returning to class. The teacher dropped the ball IMO. A lot of critical time was lost here.

 

[amethyst221]

YES! YES! YES! That is EXACTLY WHAT I WAS SAYING! So you are understanding it to mean exactly as I do. So, either this statement has to be false or if true then it gives a much smaller window of time that his disappearance occured(8:45-10am) and second, if true, this teacher should be held accountable for her downright flippant behavior about where Kyron was but MOST IMPORTANT that when he never returned from where she assumed he was (bathrm or water fountain)what is the explaination of why the child was simply marked absent and not reported that he had never returned from the bathroom and water fountain??

ETA: IIRC it was also brought to the teachers attention that Kyron's backpack and jacket were there in the classroom also..

I can't recall exactly where and, more importantly, when, someone actually found Kyron's belongings, so I can't comment on that. I think we've just reached that point at which LE is keeping everything close, isn't correcting errors, so they don't inadvertently give anything away, etc. I just feel as if they have a reason for what they're doing and saying/not saying.

 

[defender123]

I think the last person had Kyron go out the south door (when you see my car come around)! or when I come to get you,and we can go see the exibit.

 

[liz b.]

I believe that the last person to see Kyron sometime on the morning of 6/4 was his SM. I do not believe he ever made it to school that morning. The photo shown with his science project was either a) taken the morning before or b) cropped so as to show an image of Kyron in front of the science project.

I believe that Kyron's SM did go to the science fair,arriving very early,before anyone could notice that Kyron was not with her. She probably did tell his teacher he had an appointment that day. If anyone had asked her where Kyron was,I'm guessing that she would have said that he was in another area,looking at a certain project. I never thought that Tanner's story was accurate ; he couldn't have seen all the things he said he did.And besides, at around 9 :00, why wouldn't ALL of Kyron's classmates have spotted him, since they were supposedly in their classroom then ?

All JMO

 

[BeanE]

I believe that the last person to see Kyron sometime on the morning of 6/4 was his SM. I do not believe he ever made it to school that morning. The photo shown with his science project was either a) taken the morning before or b) cropped so as to show an image of Kyron in front of the science project.

I believe that Kyron's SM did go to the science fair,arriving very early,before anyone could notice that Kyron was not with her. She probably did tell his teacher he had an appointment that day. If anyone had asked her where Kyron was,I'm guessing that she would have said that he was in another area,looking at a certain project. I never thought that Tanner's story was accurate ; he couldn't have seen all the things he said he did.And besides, at around 9 :00, why wouldn't ALL of Kyron's classmates have spotted him, since they were supposedly in their classroom then ?

All JMO

How do you account for the head of the PTA and the two teachers having said they say Kyron that morning in the school?

 

[keeponsearching]

How do you account for the head of the PTA and the two teachers having said they say Kyron that morning in the school?

I don't want to get in trouble. But maybe they saw the sm and her holding his backpack and assume they did see him but really didn't. kwim?

 

[liz b.]

I don't want to get in trouble. But maybe they saw the sm and her holding his backpack and assume they did see him but really didn't. kwim?

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. A poster yesterday, I can't remember who, put it best. They wrote that "this is a case about illusion " it has to do with people making assumptions, as in the backpack in mom's hand example.On a very busy, out of the ordinary school day. This was a very clever crime.... IMO, and likely long in the planning.

All JMO