The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #6

[CaliMama]

To bring this case to the point were LE could make arrests and the PA obtain a conviction in a court of law requires a little more evidence. Only a few pieces seem to be missing but will they ever be found? I just don't know. At some point the PA may have to just take his best shot and that time may be near. But you don't throw the baby out with the bath water!

In no time the latest boogie man that everyone is trying to hook up for this 3MW case will be forgotten (as to this case anyway) and the drive-by posters who know little about the facts of this case will disappear, and those of us who do will be left to work the evidence as we always have. You work the evidence; not the suspect. "JMO"

Well, I'm here for the long haul Just because I don't always post, doesn't mean I don't lurk. I welcome any renewed interest in this case and look forward to the day when the PA takes his (or her) best shot!

 

[Missouri Mule]

Have followed this case for years and decided to reread some old material. Someone had recently contacted me with some new ideas so I decided to reread the media links and especially the thread about Robert Cox. I've never seen a compelling reason to exclude him although many seem to want to eliminate him.

I invite anyone to take a serious look at this thread here. There is at least one unnamed person who failed the polygraph. Might Cox be that person? There is some outstanding analysis of his letters. Well worth the read IMO.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83432&highlight=levitt

 

[jggordo]

Could you elaborate on this "new DNA"?

The "new DNA" that I'm speaking of is CMW's. I doubt seriously LE had his DNA back when this case happened. So, IF they have DNA from that scene possibly they could rule him in/out. JMO

 

[Hurricane]

... There is at least one unnamed person who failed the polygraph. Might Cox be that person?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83432&highlight=levitt

I don't have my files with me so I am working from memory. You can dig out the specifics if you need to. It was announced in the N-L around June 20th as I recall that LE had administered 21 polys and one person failed. That same info was revealed in the 48 Hrs program. Zellers has said that he did not call SPD about Cox until after the 48 Hrs program aired on TV and that SPD was not aware of Cox at that time. Therefore Cox could not have been the one to fail the poly. Since Cox has been incarcerated in TX he has refused to take one. Correct me if I am remembering something incorrectly.

 

[Hurricane]

The "new DNA" that I'm speaking of is CMW's. I doubt seriously LE had his DNA back when this case happened. So, IF they have DNA from that scene possibly they could rule him in/out. JMO

Well it's a given that SPD would run Wood's DNA thru the FBI's CODIS system and if there was a match to any DNA evidence nationwide we would know about it pretty quick. Since we haven't heard of a match to anything I am pretty sure you can forget about it by now. So virtually the only chance he could still be the perp in the 3MW case is if they don't have any DNA from the case. Otherwise he's eliminated.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I don't have my files with me so I am working from memory. You can dig out the specifics if you need to. It was announced in the N-L around June 20th as I recall that LE had administered 21 polys and one person failed. That same info was revealed in the 48 Hrs program. Zellers has said that he did not call SPD about Cox until after the 48 Hrs program aired on TV and that SPD was not aware of Cox at that time. Therefore Cox could not have been the one to fail the poly. Since Cox has been incarcerated in TX he has refused to take one. Correct me if I am remembering something incorrectly.

I will accept that as valid information. However, someone who is unknown to the public evidently did fail it.

This is pure speculation on my part but I have believed for some time that this took at least two male perpetrators to have carried out his crime. Assuming that it was "X" but Cox was in the van (I believe we can probably agree a van was used), Cox's DNA or prints would not have been left in or near the house especially if he took care to prevent anything left behind.

I know most people who have opined don't seem to like him for this crime. But in reading and rereading everything about this case I see nothing that could be said to exonerate him.

Whoever it was that flunked the polygraph must be a very closely guarded secret at the SPD although I have seen a name of someone who was believe involved. I have no idea why he would have been seen to have been a suspect but it can't be ruled out. The information I have seen is that he has been known for well over a decade. It was not Cox.

 

[Hurricane]

Being "unknown to the public" and the "public not knowing" who failed are two totally different things.

 

[CaliMama]

I will accept that as valid information. However, someone who is unknown to the public evidently did fail it.

This is pure speculation on my part but I have believed for some time that this took at least two male perpetrators to have carried out his crime. Assuming that it was "X" but Cox was in the van (I believe we can probably agree a van was used), Cox's DNA or prints would not have been left in or near the house especially if he took care to prevent anything left behind.

I know most people who have opined don't seem to like him for this crime. But in reading and rereading everything about this case I see nothing that could be said to exonerate him.

Whoever it was that flunked the polygraph must be a very closely guarded secret at the SPD although I have seen a name of someone who was believe involved. I have no idea why he would have been seen to have been a suspect but it can't be ruled out. The information I have seen is that he has been known for well over a decade. It was not Cox.

I have a question that might seem foolish to some, but I'm going to ask it anyway Does everyone agree that the person or persons involved in the abduction (and probable murder) of The Springfield Three more than likely had done something like this before 1992 and probably has done this again? What I mean is, this kind of thing isn't a once in a lifetime kind of crime. It takes a certain kind of person to do this and those kind of people usually do it more than once. Am I right or just misguided?

There was a guy that I knew in Nashville that was a serial rapist (but of course, I didn't know until he was arrested) that became more and more violent with his victims as time went on. After reading about how his acts of aggression escalated, it really made me feel that he was on the verge of transitioning from a serial rapist to a serial killer. He also didn't choose his victims based on age, they're ages ranged from 14 - 60 and he even raped a pregnant woman and also raped a mother and her daughter. He left his DNA at the scene of one rape and detectives followed him, waited for him to eat dinner at a restaurant, took his silverware and got his DNA that way...just on a hunch and BOOM - they got their man! I wish this could happen in this case...wouldn't that be so awesome! edited to add: He didn't leave his DNA at the scene of a rape, his victim bit part of his finger off and saved it!

It seems as though, maybe there was no DNA left at the scene on Delmar. It makes me think that everything happened elsewhere or outside of the house (at least).

 

[Missouri Mule]

My personal opinion: A one time deal unless Cox was involved. That's not worth much but it's what I happen to think. Whoever did this has to know that there would be no mercy given to the perp or perps. This was such and remains such a big case that anyone who wants to continue to have a life beyond 1992 would have had to keep their nose clean.

The exceptions would be those who are deceased or in prison. But I want to stress this is my own personal opinion.

 

[Hurricane]

It seems as though, maybe there was no DNA left at the scene on Delmar. It makes me think that everything happened elsewhere or outside of the house (at least).

There are multiple crime scenes. The only thing that happened at 1717 was entry and the abduction. That is most likely why there was little forensic evidence recovered that was not contaminated by the 18 on Sunday. The second crime scene is most likely where the rapes and murders occurred. It has never been found. It would have been extremely risky to have moved the victims to a third sight where they were murdered or to have kept them alive for long. But there could be a third evidentiary sight if their remains are not at the second sight and are buried elsewhere.

As far as perps I will only say that if this was a one time deal committed by a person or persons other than career criminals something would have broke by now.

 

[amber1]

I have a question that might seem foolish to some, but I'm going to ask it anyway Does everyone agree that the person or persons involved in the abduction (and probable murder) of The Springfield Three more than likely had done something like this before 1992 and probably has done this again? What I mean is, this kind of thing isn't a once in a lifetime kind of crime. It takes a certain kind of person to do this and those kind of people usually do it more than once. Am I right or just misguided?

There was a guy that I knew in Nashville that was a serial rapist (but of course, I didn't know until he was arrested) that became more and more violent with his victims as time went on. After reading about how his acts of aggression escalated, it really made me feel that he was on the verge of transitioning from a serial rapist to a serial killer. He also didn't choose his victims based on age, they're ages ranged from 14 - 60 and he even raped a pregnant woman and also raped a mother and her daughter. He left his DNA at the scene of one rape and detectives followed him, waited for him to eat dinner at a restaurant, took his silverware and got his DNA that way...just on a hunch and BOOM - they got their man! I wish this could happen in this case...wouldn't that be so awesome! edited to add: He didn't leave his DNA at the scene of a rape, his victim bit part of his finger off and saved it!

It seems as though, maybe there was no DNA left at the scene on Delmar. It makes me think that everything happened elsewhere or outside of the house (at least).

This is a good question I think if it was a once in a lifetime deal, the abductor(s) at least knew Sherrill, possibly the girls, making this a personal crime but I have always thought of the girls as being there the wrong place, wrong time. If it was some stranger, stalker, robber, serial killer who just chose her at random, there may possibly be other crimes out there related to this one. It's hard to think of someone carrying out a crime like this again if there was a personal connection, unless there was someone else out there who also knew the perps who was as unlucky as these three poor women that night JMO

 

[fullmoon]

This is a good question I think if it was a once in a lifetime deal, the abductor(s) at least knew Sherrill, possibly the girls, making this a personal crime but I have always thought of the girls as being there the wrong place, wrong time. If it was some stranger, stalker, robber, serial killer who just chose her at random, there may possibly be other crimes out there related to this one. It's hard to think of someone carrying out a crime like this again if there was a personal connection, unless there was someone else out there who also knew the perps who was as unlucky as these three poor women that night JMO

I agree. This crime always had the feel of the victims knowing their attacker(s). They opened the door in the middle of the night to someone who was non-threatening to them. For women, there's not a lot of people whom they would trust to open the door at that hour. It was someone they knew, in my opinion.

 

[gaia227]

There are multiple crime scenes. The only thing that happened at 1717 was entry and the abduction. That is most likely why there was little forensic evidence recovered that was not contaminated by the 18 on Sunday. The second crime scene is most likely where the rapes and murders occurred. It has never been found. It would have been extremely risky to have moved the victims to a third sight where they were murdered or to have kept them alive for long. But there could be a third evidentiary sight if their remains are not at the second sight and are buried elsewhere.

As far as perps I will only say that if this was a one time deal committed by a person or persons other than career criminals something would have broke by now.

Hi-I haven't posted in awhile but used to quite a bit and am very familiar with this case. I was twelve the summer the women disappeared from my hometown of Springfield, MO. I've been fascinated with it ever since.
In regards to the quoted post, I wouldn't be surprised if the police even swabbed for DNA. It was pretty new science at the time and I'm not sure that the police were looking at the disappearances as a possible crime. house as a possible crime scene upon I don't recall ever hearing LE has DNA on file from the Delmar house. Am I right about that?
As you said, the abduction scene was horribly compromised by the friends and family coming in and out. I've always wondered if police tested for prints on the women's purse. They were nearly lined up on the stairs--did the killer(s) arrange them like that or was it in Sherrill or Suzi's nature to organize them in such a way? Obviously, they weren't killed in the house so there is another crime scene out there and most likely their bodies are there too. I would bet almost anything that the women are buried within fifty miles of Springfield. I have always thought its most likely a singular event and that the killer (s) haven't killed again. I think they have just been lucky and have kept their mouth(s) shut and that's why they haven't been caught.
Personally, I've always liked entertaining the theory they were taken in the early morning from their beds and were roused from asleep as opposed to b shortly after the girls got home which is how I envisioned it for a long time. The beds looked like they had been slept in (was it normal for Sherril and/or Suzy to make their beds in the mornings)? The girls had had time to take of their make-up and get into pajamas. The sighting of the van was a little after 6am and only a few min from the house (if that's even.connected).. It seems like it would easier to abduct three women if you subdued them while they were sleeping which would explain the lack of a struggle. It seems plausible to me, if they were in bed, that they were taken out separately-the girls together and Sherrill by herself. I.tend to imagine abduction scenes as being full of screaming and the victim struggling but if they were asleep and caught totally unawares the perp may have been able to get them out quietly because of the element of surprise.

Anyway, I obviously don't have any new info to add, just wanted to.connect with people who are also invested in these women's fates.

 

[Hurricane]

Hi-I haven't posted in awhile but used to quite a bit and am very familiar with this case. I was twelve the summer the women disappeared from my hometown of Springfield, MO. I've been fascinated with it ever since.
In regards to the quoted post, I wouldn't be surprised if the police even swabbed for DNA. It was pretty new science at the time and I'm not sure that the police were looking at the disappearances as a possible crime. house as a possible crime scene upon I don't recall ever hearing LE has DNA on file from the Delmar house. Am I right about that?
As you said, the abduction scene was horribly compromised by the friends and family coming in and out. I've always wondered if police tested for prints on the women's purse. They were nearly lined up on the stairs--did the killer(s) arrange them like that or was it in Sherrill or Suzi's nature to organize them in such a way? Obviously, they weren't killed in the house so there is another crime scene out there and most likely their bodies are there too. I would bet almost anything that the women are buried within fifty miles of Springfield. I have always thought its most likely a singular event and that the killer (s) haven't killed again. I think they have just been lucky and have kept their mouth(s) shut and that's why they haven't been caught.
Personally, I've always liked entertaining the theory they were taken in the early morning from their beds and were roused from asleep as opposed to b shortly after the girls got home which is how I envisioned it for a long time. The beds looked like they had been slept in (was it normal for Sherril and/or Suzy to make their beds in the mornings)? The girls had had time to take of their make-up and get into pajamas. The sighting of the van was a little after 6am and only a few min from the house (if that's even.connected).. It seems like it would easier to abduct three women if you subdued them while they were sleeping which would explain the lack of a struggle. It seems plausible to me, if they were in bed, that they were taken out separately-the girls together and Sherrill by herself. I.tend to imagine abduction scenes as being full of screaming and the victim struggling but if they were asleep and caught totally unawares the perp may have been able to get them out quietly because of the element of surprise.

Anyway, I obviously don't have any new info to add, just wanted to.connect with people who are also invested in these women's fates.

At one time I looked into the state of DNA research in 1992 and made a post about it. That was probably in 2008 or 2009 when I was trying to determine what forensic evidence LE might have. That post was probably in thread #2 or #3 and is lost now, but could be in thread #4. Suffice it to say that DNA collection was common in forensic investigations at that time and I am sure they collected it. Whether they came up with anything suspiciously pointing to a suspect, I can't say but obviously they don't have enough. The SPD Command Center was set up in a trailer in the street in front of the house for days. They did a thorough state-of-the-art forensic investigation at that time.

It has been discussed at some length before where the purses were found and how they were moved around by the 18 that day as their friends looked for information as to where the 3 might be. If the purses were dusted & swabbed and I'm sure they were, the leather/vinyl/fabric of each one would determine to some extent what forensics could be recovered from them. But once again, contamination from handling might have made the printing & swabbing of the purses worthless.

I too believe the girls had time to get in bed but I believe they were not asleep. The TV was on and being played thru the VCR and the VCR served as a remote control for the TV. If the TV had been turned on by one of the perps just for noise they wouldn't have turned on the VCR for that purpose.

Whether the perps were already with Sherrill in her bedroom or whether they came in thru the sliding glass door in Suzie's bedroom, the girls were bull rushed as they lay in bed and the perps were on top of them before they knew what happened. According to Sherrill's step-daughter, Sherrill's room was not found like it would normally be kept; with shoes (and maybe clothing) from the closet scattered across the bedroom floor. Suzie's bedroom probably appeared as most any teenagers room would especially at that hour. If Sherrill was then brought to Suzie's room and the 3 were contained there while the van was moved into place from S. Kentwood what occurred would have been confined to just two rooms in the house.

A lot has been made of the pictures taken of Suzie's room as they appeared in the N-L but remember those are pictures allowed to be taken by the media after the forensic investigation and not crime scene photos taken by LE as the room was found.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Hi-I haven't posted in awhile but used to quite a bit and am very familiar with this case. I was twelve the summer the women disappeared from my hometown of Springfield, MO. I've been fascinated with it ever since.
In regards to the quoted post, I wouldn't be surprised if the police even swabbed for DNA. It was pretty new science at the time and I'm not sure that the police were looking at the disappearances as a possible crime. house as a possible crime scene upon I don't recall ever hearing LE has DNA on file from the Delmar house. Am I right about that?
As you said, the abduction scene was horribly compromised by the friends and family coming in and out. I've always wondered if police tested for prints on the women's purse. They were nearly lined up on the stairs--did the killer(s) arrange them like that or was it in Sherrill or Suzi's nature to organize them in such a way? Obviously, they weren't killed in the house so there is another crime scene out there and most likely their bodies are there too. I would bet almost anything that the women are buried within fifty miles of Springfield. I have always thought its most likely a singular event and that the killer (s) haven't killed again. I think they have just been lucky and have kept their mouth(s) shut and that's why they haven't been caught.
Personally, I've always liked entertaining the theory they were taken in the early morning from their beds and were roused from asleep as opposed to b shortly after the girls got home which is how I envisioned it for a long time. The beds looked like they had been slept in (was it normal for Sherril and/or Suzy to make their beds in the mornings)? The girls had had time to take of their make-up and get into pajamas. The sighting of the van was a little after 6am and only a few min from the house (if that's even.connected).. It seems like it would easier to abduct three women if you subdued them while they were sleeping which would explain the lack of a struggle. It seems plausible to me, if they were in bed, that they were taken out separately-the girls together and Sherrill by herself. I.tend to imagine abduction scenes as being full of screaming and the victim struggling but if they were asleep and caught totally unawares the perp may have been able to get them out quietly because of the element of surprise.

Anyway, I obviously don't have any new info to add, just wanted to.connect with people who are also invested in these women's fates.

I like your post and thoughts but would make a personal opinion. I tend to think the 6 AM sighting was probably not valid. I am much more inclined to believe in the alleged earlier sighting by the "Yard Sale Lady" who said that that van came out of Kentwood and nearly hit her vehicle at about 4:30 AM in the morning. I also believe it was alleged that she looked the driver squarely in the face. If that were true, that would have left a full hour and a half unaccounted for before the alleged 6 AM sighting. And images would have been clearly visible long before sunrise; perhaps about 5:15 AM or so.

My understanding is that the "Porch Lady" didn't come forth until about two weeks after the abductions (I stand to be corrected). According to one person who claimed to have witnessed the alleged hypnosis on this individual she became hysterical and the session was cut short by the detective in attendence. Her credibility was, however, enhanced by the assertion that she and her husband had a used car lot and she recognized the type of van used.

I wouldn't rule out either alleged sighting but there is that time discrepancy involved. Additionally there was the gentleman who saw some "suspicious" activity in a similar van over at a local grocery store. He wrote down the license plate and said he had discarded it.

One assumes these three individuals were thoroughly questioned about what they saw. But the results would only be in the police files.

 

[jggordo]

Well it's a given that SPD would run Wood's DNA thru the FBI's CODIS system and if there was a match to any DNA evidence nationwide we would know about it pretty quick. Since we haven't heard of a match to anything I am pretty sure you can forget about it by now. So virtually the only chance he could still be the perp in the 3MW case is if they don't have any DNA from the case. Otherwise he's eliminated.

While I agree with you that the CODIS system is there, I have respectfully disagree that it is a "given" that SPD would request a match be run. It is costly and time consuming. I would not say anything in LE is a "given". I have seen far too much to the contrary in my opinion.

I believe to this day there are untold thousands of DNA samples in rapes all over the country that have not been run due to backlog and lack of funds to do so. It is well documented but also my opinion.

JMO's

 

[gaia227]

I'll add more later.(I'm in the subway right note) but wanted to apologize for ALL the typos in my post yesterday! I was using my phone instead of my computer. I won't do that again!

 

[CaliMama]

I like your post and thoughts but would make a personal opinion. I tend to think the 6 AM sighting was probably not valid. I am much more inclined to believe in the alleged earlier sighting by the "Yard Sale Lady" who said that that van came out of Kentwood and nearly hit her vehicle at about 4:30 AM in the morning. I also believe it was alleged that she looked the driver squarely in the face. If that were true, that would have left a full hour and a half unaccounted for before the alleged 6 AM sighting. And images would have been clearly visible long before sunrise; perhaps about 5:15 AM or so.

My understanding is that the "Porch Lady" didn't come forth until about two weeks after the abductions (I stand to be corrected). According to one person who claimed to have witnessed the alleged hypnosis on this individual she became hysterical and the session was cut short by the detective in attendence. Her credibility was, however, enhanced by the assertion that she and her husband had a used car lot and she recognized the type of van used.

I wouldn't rule out either alleged sighting but there is that time discrepancy involved. Additionally there was the gentleman who saw some "suspicious" activity in a similar van over at a local grocery store. He wrote down the license plate and said he had discarded it.

One assumes these three individuals were thoroughly questioned about what they saw. But the results would only be in the police files.

I searched the previous threads for the answer to this question, but I guess I didn't go back far enough. Can you refresh my memory on how the "Yard Sale Lady" described the driver of the van? Also, I just re-watched "Disappeared" and it was stated that the "Porch Lady" didn't send in her tip until a month later (after she saw the poster of Suzie, Sherril and Stacy). Am I correct in remembering that the grocery store (wasn't it Dillon's?) sighting was mid morning?

 

[Missouri Mule]

I searched the previous threads for the answer to this question, but I guess I didn't go back far enough. Can you refresh my memory on how the "Yard Sale Lady" described the driver of the van? Also, I just re-watched "Disappeared" and it was stated that the "Porch Lady" didn't send in her tip until a month later (after she saw the poster of Suzie, Sherril and Stacy). Am I correct in remembering that the grocery store (wasn't it Dillon's?) sighting was mid morning?

Last question first. I believe the Dillon's store (not sure which one) was where it was seen. But I can't recall with specificity.

What I remember about the "Yard Sale Lady" was that the van was said to be driving "like a bat ...." and that (going strictly on memory) the driver seemed to bear the likeness of someone who has often been associated with certain illicit activities. (But that is going strictly on memory). I'd rather not put a name to this individual.

I have no idea if this woman was thoroughly questioned or if it was knocked down but in reading her comments on another forum or somewhere that is my recollection. Hurricane may be able to speak to both matters as he is the archivist of relevant facts on this case, I believe. He has done a lot of independent research on this case.

There is also another sighting of a conventional sedan in a service station nearby and some kind of a note in a Smitty's newspaper box as I recall.

Note of explanation: I used to have all of this information collection but sent it all to a national columnist who indicated she would look into it and perhaps write about the case. That never happened and I have not been able to recover those news clippings. However, so far as I know, the original newspapers are available in the Springfield City library. And the last I knew, the local circuit clerk's office had extensive files on cases and information not currently available on Missouri Casenet. I believe those are public documents.

 

[AnonymousD]

Regarding Craig Woods, what does anybody know about his physical appearance in June '92? How would that compare to the composite sketches that were done early on in the case of the 3MW? Can the infamous green van be attributed to CW somehow?

I'm sure my inquiry seems trivial compared to the vast amounts of research being poured into this case, but my curiosity comes from the six year old boy in me that moved to Springfield from Pleasant Hope in the summer of '92. I remember the posters everywhere, the various updates on the radio, the now yearly segment on the 10 o'clock news....and still nothing solid has emerged.

Praying for a breakthrough.

Welcome to WS chestnut&bypass!

:welcome6: