Tommy describes attack

Exactly. That confounds the whole thing right? Again, I doubt they recall what they actually DID DO AND SAY, so it makes it difficult to pull together a story without holes.

moo

It usually takes several lies to cover up for one and thus liars often trip over their own tongues.

There is only one version of the truth, and it never changes.
 
But the interesting aspect is that TN has come out as well as Shoemaker and Ron, IIRC TN's comments correctly--saying they don't believe the Jo theory. SO where does this leave us? :banghead:
For anyone who knows, attorneys, anyone... what happens if there is a crime, but some other crime turns up in the process of a witness revealing the true details of the initial crime or in the LE searching for evidence.

In other words, if LE is searching a home for a gun, knife, etc regarding a specific crime and in that search they come across.. oh I dont know... a certain amount of Lortabs, sans prescription. Is the person in the home on the hook for the Lortabs even tho LE was not looking for them per se? I guess Im trying to draw some analogies or conclusions about this gun story, but I cant articulate the exact question. Who here gets what Im trying to ask? (Iow, I could use some help splainin this one, Lucy.) tia
 
Hey, Em, I remember that. So let's look at those times again-

1:30a- we have a loud vehicle parked near dumpster area
2:00a- we have that loud vehicle leaving the area
2:13a- first call related to the case comes in (IMO, from the Croslins)
2:30a- Misty is seen and heard crying to someone on the phone on Green Ln
3:27a- 911 call "Haleigh is missing"

Let's not forget that someone over on Tyler St (Croslins) told police that Haleigh was last seen in/at her residence 1 to 1 1/2 hours prior to the 911 call at 3:27a. That would mean that one of the Croslins saw/or claimed to have seen Haleigh around 2a-2:30a. So the way I'm thinking is, if Tommy or anyone of the Croslins harmed Haleigh and disposed of her body, why not just say that they haven't seen Haleigh? They admitted to seeing her around 2am. I just can't make sense of that.

IF someone at the Croslin residence on Tyler told LE they saw Haleigh around 2:00 am I'm thinking they were referring to a deceased Haleigh being removed from that dumpster..
They just didn't bother giving the rest of the story to LE..

As I see it the ONLY two Croslins who would have been at that residence at that time of the morning would have been Tommy and Lindsey... Hank Sr and Lisa were at the hospital in Gainesville.. IF Timmy and Chelsey were on Tyler at that time of the morning that would blow Chelsey story to pieces...And IF Jo was there when that story was told, he would have definitely been labeled a suspect from the information Chelsey gave out concerning the van being moved that night and keys being in a different place... JMHOOTS
 
For anyone who knows, attorneys, anyone... what happens if there is a crime, but some other crime turns up in the process of a witness revealing the true details of the initial crime or in the LE searching for evidence.

In other words, if LE is searching a home for a gun, knife, etc regarding a specific crime and in that search they come across.. oh I dont know... a certain amount of Lortabs, sans prescription. Is the person in the home on the hook for the Lortabs even tho LE was not looking for them per se? I guess Im trying to draw some analogies or conclusions about this gun story, but I cant articulate the exact question. Who here gets what Im trying to ask? (Iow, I could use some help splainin this one, Lucy.) tia

I think I get what you are saying, kant.

If LE found illegal drugs and/or weapons at the scene of a crime, they might press charges, or they might not. It would depend upon what contraband was found and if it could possibly relate in any way to the crime being investigated.

In this case, RC could have been paranoid that LE might find something that is not related to Haleigh's demise in any way, but might appear to be at first glance. Or, it might appear not to be related at first glance, but could be tied in later.

IMO, if RC was not involved directly in Haleigh's demise, he certainly played a major role in the cover-up. Why? Well, I have no answer to that question but possibly his initial paranoia (see above) led him to believe he had to cover to some degree, and then things evolved in such a way that he was between a rock and hard place for ever being able to assist LE in the investigation without his initial cover-up effort coming to light. And...possibly his involvement in some unrelated crime(s) as well. JMO.

If you feel I do not get what you are saying after all, kant...please clarify.
 
Hey, Em, I remember that. So let's look at those times again-

1:30a- we have a loud vehicle parked near dumpster area
2:00a- we have that loud vehicle leaving the area
2:13a- first call related to the case comes in (IMO, from the Croslins)
2:30a- Misty is seen and heard crying to someone on the phone on Green Ln
3:27a- 911 call "Haleigh is missing"

Let's not forget that someone over on Tyler St (Croslins) told police that Haleigh was last seen in/at her residence 1 to 1 1/2 hours prior to the 911 call at 3:27a. That would mean that one of the Croslins saw/or claimed to have seen Haleigh around 2a-2:30a. So the way I'm thinking is, if Tommy or anyone of the Croslins harmed Haleigh and disposed of her body, why not just say that they haven't seen Haleigh? They admitted to seeing her around 2am. I just can't make sense of that.

I just wanted to add something....

We have someone at or near the dumpster at around 1:30a...if that same person left at around 2a, they spent at least 25-30 mins at the dumpster. We have dogs hitting on the dumpster but no Haleigh. Could someone have been cleaning out their car, getting rid of evidence?
If that's the case, I don't think that Haleigh was left at the dumpster but evidence of her being deceased was...and this was at 1:30a.
Now, someone (Croslins) claims to have seen Haleigh around 2a. IMO, if they saw Haleigh at around 2am, Haleigh was NOT alive. One of the stories that we heard was that Jo walked in on a deceased Haleigh and freaked out. There may be some truth to that. JMO of course
 
If hiis story is true why hide Haleigh? Why didn't everyone tell this at first?
Then Joe would of been in jail, over and done with..........IMO.........more to the story!!!
and 3 main characters are in jail..........
Misty said her story would hurt 2 people. 1 cared for (Tim?) 1 not so much (Joe?)
and why in the world would Ron let this go on so long over a gun?

All great questions. I don't buy the whole package but I do think there are grains of truth in each story. Let's take the gun, like I said before, let's say Joe used that gun in another crime, maybe in TN. He brings the gun to Ron for safe keeping. Knowing the kind of guy Ron is, he begins to threaten Joe that if doesn't bring him dope to sell or supply him etc, he will call LE about the gun, maybe even collecting a reward for information in the previous crime ( if any) Ron would not come forward with that info to LE BUT they would try & frame Joe even if he did nothing to Haleigh.

Okay, another thought, remember the bouncing cough Jr said he heard. Would it be a stretch to think brother & sister were "hong bonging" on the couch, Haleigh wakes up & sees it & Misty snaps, knowing she will tell daddy & kills her because she is high ( as his bro) and the spanking gets out of hand. It could be Misty & bro then came up with the story, taking the gun they said Joe was after so they could say he didnt find it.

Whatever the story, I think a gun ( the gun) is connected. But I don't think it's as they say, that Joe went there to steal it & got mad & hurt Rons kid instead. Me, I would think rather than hurt Haleigh he just would have beat the snot out of Misty.
 
(snipped)

Okay, another thought, remember the bouncing cough Jr said he heard. Would it be a stretch to think brother & sister were "hong bonging" on the couch
...


It would not be a stretch, IMO.
 
I feel that TC, MC and JO all were involved in someway with what killed Haleigh. If it was Joe alone then why would TC and MC keep changing their story, they would simply tell the truth and Joe would be arrested and that would be that. The ONLY reason for continually changing your story is because you are involved and CANNOT tell the truth or you will do down for it. And I think whatever happened was bad enought that they are all scared of getting the death peanlty. Noway would they keep quiet and keep changing stories if they were innocent. IMHO And I truly believe it had something to do with either sex between the three of them and Haleigh saw them so they killed her or they molested Haleigh and she died during the molestation.
 
We've evaluated this case over and over...and there's a simple answer.
Misty and Tommy are covering for themselves, they would have thrown Joe under the bus first thing if he were involved, these two would throw each other under the bus, so with that being said and established, they each had a part in this child's murder, they both are guilty, and until one or the other confesses they can sit in jail and rot.
I hate that the state of Florida is having to pay for their room and board, the cost of this investigation alone would be staggering to know. They have no conscience ..neither one or a confession would have came before now along with WHERE IS HALEIGH....
They all make me physically ill.
As far as blaming Ron, yes...he is guilty of leaving his children with Misty knowing she had been on a weekend of drugs, TN for knowing Misty didn't want to keep them,
AS for not taking them home with her when she dropped off the clothes.
Guilty as Charged, I wish they all were in jail.
Misty and Tommy are the murderers...
JUST MY OPINION...
 
We've evaluated this case over and over...and there's a simple answer.
Misty and Tommy are covering for themselves, they would have thrown Joe under the bus first thing if he were involved, these two would throw each other under the bus, so with that being said and established, they each had a part in this child's murder, they both are guilty, and until one or the other confesses they can sit in jail and rot.
I hate that the state of Florida is having to pay for their room and board, the cost of this investigation alone would be staggering to know. They have no conscience ..neither one or a confession would have came before now along with WHERE IS HALEIGH....
They all make me physically ill.
As far as blaming Ron, yes...he is guilty of leaving his children with Misty knowing she had been on a weekend of drugs, TN for knowing Misty didn't want to keep them,
AS for not taking them home with her when she dropped off the clothes.
Guilty as Charged, I wish they all were in jail.
Misty and Tommy are the murderers...
JUST MY OPINION...

This would make perfect sense for me if there wasn't that nagging little detail of Ron's academy award winning performance on the 911 call and the next day before the cameras. He knows now and he knew then exactly what happened to his little girl. In my opinion, if this is true, he should rot in jail along with MC and ToC. There is no excuse for not letting someone know where this precious child's body is. Her mother and others that really love her need to be able to have a funeral!
 
I feel that TC, MC and JO all were involved in someway with what killed Haleigh. If it was Joe alone then why would TC and MC keep changing their story, they would simply tell the truth and Joe would be arrested and that would be that. The ONLY reason for continually changing your story is because you are involved and CANNOT tell the truth or you will do down for it. And I think whatever happened was bad enought that they are all scared of getting the death peanlty. Noway would they keep quiet and keep changing stories if they were innocent. IMHO And I truly believe it had something to do with either sex between the three of them and Haleigh saw them so they killed her or they molested Haleigh and she died during the molestation.

I agree with you truckengirl mostly. I'm still not sure Joe was involved. If he was, like you say, all M and T had to do is tell LE. I agree totally that if M and T would not keep changing their story if they were not the one's responsible for what happened to Haleigh. One question, does anyone know which Croslin said they had seen Haleigh 1-1 1/2 hrs earlier?
 
This would make perfect sense for me if there wasn't that nagging little detail of Ron's academy award winning performance on the 911 call and the next day before the cameras. He knows now and he knew then exactly what happened to his little girl. In my opinion, if this is true, he should rot in jail along with MC and ToC. There is no excuse for not letting someone know where this precious child's body is. Her mother and others that really love her need to be able to have a funeral!



You are absolutely correct there is no excuse but Ronald Cummings, his mother and grandmother took it upon themelves to lie, coverup and dispose of Haleigh's remains in a manner so as the truth will never be revealed...All any of them care about now is hoping they are never found out..They have no plans to ever ease Crystal's pain...JMO
 
Passionflower. Good question about Ron's reaction to the gun. I have some thoughts on that. The gun was probably stolen to begin with and illegal because it was not registered. Any information about the gun in his possesion would put Ron in legal jeopardy. To me the gun figures into the story as something Ron promised Jo as payment in a drug deal. That's one of the other reasons Ron would remain silent about the gun.
I believe Ron would hide facts about the gun from LE in order not to be arrested, it would be a federal charge, but less concerned about solving what happened to his daughter. I see Ron as that kind of parent. jmo

You're post makes me feel ill AZ, because I find it extremely believable. What vile lies withing these players?
Thanks AZ
 
You are absolutely correct there is no excuse but Ronald Cummings, his mother and grandmother took it upon themelves to lie, coverup and dispose of Haleigh's remains in a manner so as the truth will never be revealed...All any of them care about now is hoping they are never found out..They have no plans to ever ease Crystal's pain...JMO

You are exactly right. They began lieing and covering up the very day Haleigh went missing! They have know all along what happened. They wouldn't have gone to the lengths they have to hide information and mislead everyone just to protect the Croslin's. Their butts are in this somehow too. I think they all know what happened, and can't implicate the others without being implicated themselves. We will probably NEVER know the whole story.
 
We've evaluated this case over and over...and there's a simple answer.
Misty and Tommy are covering for themselves, they would have thrown Joe under the bus first thing if he were involved, these two would throw each other under the bus, so with that being said and established, they each had a part in this child's murder, they both are guilty, and until one or the other confesses they can sit in jail and rot.
I hate that the state of Florida is having to pay for their room and board, the cost of this investigation alone would be staggering to know. They have no conscience ..neither one or a confession would have came before now along with WHERE IS HALEIGH....
They all make me physically ill.
As far as blaming Ron, yes...he is guilty of leaving his children with Misty knowing she had been on a weekend of drugs, TN for knowing Misty didn't want to keep them,
AS for not taking them home with her when she dropped off the clothes.
Guilty as Charged, I wish they all were in jail.
Misty and Tommy are the murderers...
JUST MY OPINION...

I thanked your post because I agree with many points in it, especially Misty and Tommy covering for themselves and only themselves.

Me thinks they doth protest too much. Too many stories, so many lies. Tommy keeps throwing crap on the wall seeing what will stick, why bother with all the stories. Personally, I think he and misty were involved in more than a brother/ sister type of relationship and Haleigh caught them. Lyndsy alluded to such in a jail tape by calling them incestuous. What about Joe? I used to think he was guilty as sin....thought he was the primary perp, but not anymore....I used to think he drove the van over to 202 Green Lane to help Misty and Tommy, but maybe that was really Timmy and Chelsea is just as good at lying as the Croslin's.

I have faith in LE, I have faith they have evidence but not enough at this time, but I know in my heart that the truth is going to come, Haleigh Cummings will come home and be brought justice.
 
But the interesting aspect is that TN has come out as well as Shoemaker and Ron, IIRC TN's comments correctly--saying they don't believe the Jo theory. SO where does this leave us? :banghead:

At precisely the same point of amazement I found myself 18 months ago when I heard Ronald Cummings say "There wasn't no fight with no cousin over no gun!"
 
We've evaluated this case over and over...and there's a simple answer.
Misty and Tommy are covering for themselves, they would have thrown Joe under the bus first thing if he were involved, these two would throw each other under the bus, so with that being said and established, they each had a part in this child's murder, they both are guilty, and until one or the other confesses they can sit in jail and rot.
I hate that the state of Florida is having to pay for their room and board, the cost of this investigation alone would be staggering to know. They have no conscience ..neither one or a confession would have came before now along with WHERE IS HALEIGH....
They all make me physically ill.
As far as blaming Ron, yes...he is guilty of leaving his children with Misty knowing she had been on a weekend of drugs, TN for knowing Misty didn't want to keep them,
AS for not taking them home with her when she dropped off the clothes.
Guilty as Charged, I wish they awere in jail.
Misty and Tommy are the murderers...
JUST MY OPINION...
you may be right, but there are a few things, IMO anyway, that point to Misty covering for Tommy. I think that everybody had their own reasons to lie & cover up, but when it's all said & done, it's MOO, that there's just one killer. There was a jail recording, where Tommy & Lindsey were talking & she was angry. She gave him, what I interpreted as an ultimatum...'stop putting your sister before me'. Well, he came up with the 'Joe did it story' instead, & I think that's because, that story was the best he could do. He couldn't blame Misty,& knew, IMO, that if he accused her of murder, she would tell the truth. Tommy's changing stories alone, point to him trying to minimize his own involvement, & place blame elsewhere. Why do I think Misty would lie for him? partly because she has been lieing from the beginning, but mainly, because I interpreted some real pressure from her dad, to 'love' her brother. I think Hank is scared for Tommy. In most of these stories, & by his own accounts, Tommy is in the middle of the action, seeing & hearing everything. Misty? not so much. She's scared...in another room...hiding under the covers...in other words, not a witness who would have much substance to add. just a witness who can bolster Tommy's claims. Why do I think they'd frame Joe? 1st of all, I'm not sure it is a frame & think he was probably there, but his actual role, might be more of Tommy's proclaimed role-that of the unwilling sidekick. 2ndly, IMO, there probably really were some hard feelings because of the whole gun mess, (which I think happened on another night), so they don't like Joe, & there's no love loss. & lastly, I think Timmy was involved, & Misty is protecting him. I think Tommy's reasons for blaming Joe are simple. He wants to minimize his own involvement, & he needed a story that would keep Lindsey from leaving him. It didn't work, but now he is stuck with the consequences . & I'll admit I could be way off, but it's MOO, that Tommy's the one who's scrambling for his life. That dude just can't shut up, & I think it's because he's scared ******** So, it's MOO, that Misty is covering for Tommy, but he knows it's based on a tenuous loyalty, so he has been making a consentrated effort to stay on her good side, (which I started noticing, in the jail tapes), & to keep her role to a minimum. MOO. I'm to the point, where I'd welcome the arrest of Joe, warranted or not, just so the cops can tell him they suspect him, scare him, & get him to talking.
 
At this point, I don't care who did what. It's obvious Haleigh's not coming home alive and it's obvious every single one of them was involved somehow. I really wish none of them would get a plea deal b/c none of them deserve it.
 
At this point, I don't care who did what. It's obvious Haleigh's not coming home alive and it's obvious every single one of them was involved somehow. I really wish none of them would get a plea deal b/c none of them deserve it.

EXACTLY! :furious:

At the very least, not one of them is innocent of obstruction! :banghead:
 
Regarding the bold part, yep, that about sums it up. :banghead: The rest of your post highlights why the bolded part makes sense. At least YOU make more sense than the folks in the jail cells who are trying their hand at creative storytelling. :shakehead:

To you, Paintr, very well said. Poor little Haleigh didn't stand a chance with that bunch. If they say this stuff in jail, just think about the stories they told each other during their weed-puffing moments. :rolleyes:

I deliberately left out the hit with a chunk of wood, the cinder blocks, the rope, the 'woke up and Haliegh was gone', the bricked open door,the 'I was washing blankets', the machine gun, the 'Jo didn't do it ...I dreamed it', the 'I was influenced by others' details because my mind just couldn't take anymore. LOL!:burn:

I just want to know 'where is Haleigh?' and 'who made her disappear?' :banghead:
 

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