Viable Suspect: Terry Hobbs - #2

[Userid]

Isn't it possible that the perpetrator made the boys tie each other up before tying up the last boy himself? That would account for the different knotting.

It's technically possible, but personally, I don't think this happened. Two of the victims were tied with complicated knots (a figure eight and one other I can't recall). An eight-year-old victim -- assuming he could even manage to tie these complicated knots -- would not have the wherewithal to do so under duress. That's my opinion.

Also, CB's knots were not complicated -- however, the yellowish abrasions around his bindings suggest that he had already passed before they were applies -- hence, why they were less complicated (because the killer knew he was already unconscious).

 

[DHT1339]

I think it still makes more sense that it was the murder site before a dump site nevertheless -- for the plain and simple fact that the Mississippi River was a couple miles away from West Memphis, if that. My point is: if one was going to dump a body, they would have done it there -- assuming they had even a cursory knowledge of the West Memphis area (which, if they knew the victims, they would indeed have such knowledge).

The boys were last seen heading into a section of the RHH. They were seen by Cindy Rico on the north side of the bayou around 6 p.m. My point is, they were all over RHH. As Fr Brown mentioned, a killer would not abduct the victims from an abduction site, only to return them to that same site to dispose of their bodies -- I mean, it simply makes zero sense to do so. If you want to conceal bodies, you wouldn't return them to where they were last seen; and you wouldn't risk returning to the abduction site and being seen yourself.

With the exception of maybe the knife/weapon wounds (which do exist by the way, even if you do think there was animal predation -- there were what appeared to be box-cutter marks on MM's scalp, etc.), everything about this crime was improvised. To me, this improvisation would also include dumping the bodies. This dump site was used because it was the only thing available at the killer's disposal -- because it was in the immediate vicinity of where the crime/abduction had occurred. The water level in this creek was a mere few feet -- again, this wouldn't have been a convenient space to hide bodies (you would want deep water) -- and it was well-known that the water level fluctuated even lower than that at times. It was used out of necessity; not by choice. The killer needed to dump the bikes in the bayou and risk the chance of being seen because they could not fit in the creek where the bodies were found -- it's just another sign that this dump site was the most inconvenient of places to willingly dump evidence; yet it was indeed used, because the killer had no other choice.

Yes, you make the point that the killer would have to be seen exiting the site all the same; I agree. That is why I believe that the killer(s?) were on foot. Remember: there were zero tire tracks found around the scene -- and being on foot would have made the killer less of a target than being in a big vehicle.

The truck theory is a good one and I can't discount it. It would explain why and how the killer was able to contain three kids (in the back of a semi-trailer); and it would explain how all these items were able to be disposed -- because the killer had a view of when the searchers were out of the area, and disposed of everything over a prolonged period of time.

i believe the rico sighting is the only one that places the boys on the service road area of the woods near the interstate. she claims she saw 3 boys and 2 bikes near the drainage ditch between 6/630 but this doesn't match with the kim williams sighting, which placed two boys (stevie and michael, but not christopher) entering the woods between 530 and 6 while their bikes were parked on the dead end road off godwin. this is corroborated by dawn moore's statement that she saw stevie and michael riding their bikes down 14th st towards the woods

there's also bobby posey who said christopher stopped by his house after getting whipped and told him he was running away. so does this mean christopher might have already been in the woods and stevie/michael went looking for him? but then how do you explain the bikes? the rico sighting involves bikes while the williams sighting says the boys entered the woods without them. did they come back for them at one point prior to the rico sighting? did someone else take them?

i get what you're saying about why the killer(s) would bring the bodies back to where they abducted the boys. it doesn't make sense unless they thought that by disposing them where they did, the police would look at perhaps a trucker from the BB committing the crime. for me, the missing clothing is a big reason why i think its very possible they were murdered elsewhere. if there was no vehicle involved, how then did the killer(s) leave the woods? was there any possible way to exit the woods without being seen? unless they simply traveled along the creek and exited in a location away from the neighborhood.

 

[8771]

In The Forgotten West Memphis Three, Bob Ruff thought it was significant that Stevie's mother and stepfather made the 911 call from her place of work and then waited for the police there. Ruff speculated, angrily, that TH was the one that made the call and waiting there for the police (as opposed to home) was his idea. I expected Ruff to follow up and ask the mom which one of them made the call. If Ruff found out which of them made the call, it didn't make it into the program. I can think of a couple of reasons why they might wait there.

And if it was a crime of anger, why were the kids undressed and their clothes sunk by being impaled with sticks? That took time and served no purpose that I can see. Better to leave the clothes on the sunken bodies.

I have not watched the docuseries, but I have listened to countless hours of the Forgotten WM3 podcast recently. Idk how in depth the docuseries goes, but the podcast is nauseatingly detailed.

Re the clothes: Ruff speculates that the clothes were removed to make the bodies less conspicuous; so as to not float from air bubbles trapped within clothing. He mentions the clothes being impaled and sunk into the creek bed via sticks as a way to further conceal evidence so the boys wouldn't be found too quickly, i.e. buying the perp more time.

He surmises the initial attack was out of anger and directed toward one child; an attack that went too far, resulting in death. Ruff believes the other 2 were killed as collateral.

 

[8771]

In The Forgotten West Memphis Three, Bob Ruff thought it was significant that Stevie's mother and stepfather made the 911 call from her place of work and then waited for the police there. Ruff speculated, angrily, that TH was the one that made the call and waiting there for the police (as opposed to home) was his idea. I expected Ruff to follow up and ask the mom which one of them made the call. If Ruff found out which of them made the call, it didn't make it into the program. I can think of a couple of reasons why they might wait there.

And if it was a crime of anger, why were the kids undressed and their clothes sunk by being impaled with sticks? That took time and served no purpose that I can see. Better to leave the clothes on the sunken bodies.

I have not watched the docuseries, but I have listened to countless hours of the Forgotten WM3 podcast recently. Idk how in depth the docuseries goes, but the podcast is nauseatingly detailed.

Re the clothes: Ruff speculates that the clothes were removed to make the bodies less conspicuous; so as to not float from air bubbles trapped within clothing. He mentions the clothes being impaled and sunk into the creek bed via sticks as a way to further conceal evidence so the boys wouldn't be found too quickly, i.e. buying the perp more time.

He surmises the initial attack was out of anger and directed toward one child; an attack that went too far, resulting in death. Ruff believes the other 2 were killed as collateral.

 

[DHT1339]

I have not watched the docuseries, but I have listened to countless hours of the Forgotten WM3 podcast recently. Idk how in depth the docuseries goes, but the podcast is nauseatingly detailed.

Re the clothes: Ruff speculates that the clothes were removed to make the bodies less conspicuous; so as to not float from air bubbles trapped within clothing. He mentions the clothes being impaled and sunk into the creek bed via sticks as a way to further conceal evidence so the boys wouldn't be found too quickly, i.e. buying the perp more time.

He surmises the initial attack was out of anger and directed toward one child; an attack that went too far, resulting in death. Ruff believes the other 2 were killed as collateral.

i wasn't a fan of the forgotten WM3 miniseries. ruff leaves out a lot of key details and is far too focused on the whole animal predation thing. the most interesting part for me was jim clemente. i think he brought up a lot of key points that point to the killer being someone who knew the boys and the area well

the clothes being removed will always baffle me. especially when you consider there were socks and underwear missing. where did they go? assuming the killer was on foot, he left the clothes because he didn't want to be seen carrying them. how do you explain the missing items then? trophies maybe? or you could argue the bodies and clothes were brought back to the scene and the killer forgot to bring the missing items to dump.

 

[8771]

In The Forgotten West Memphis Three, Bob Ruff thought it was significant that Stevie's mother and stepfather made the 911 call from her place of work and then waited for the police there. Ruff speculated, angrily, that TH was the one that made the call and waiting there for the police (as opposed to home) was his idea. I expected Ruff to follow up and ask the mom which one of them made the call. If Ruff found out which of them made the call, it didn't make it into the program. I can think of a couple of reasons why they might wait there.

And if it was a crime of anger, why were the kids undressed and their clothes sunk by being impaled with sticks? That took time and served no purpose that I can see. Better to leave the clothes on the sunken bodies.

Sorry to go back to your post, but I thought about it again after listening to another episode today. In Season 5, Episode 40 of Truth and Justice: The Forgotten West Memphis 3 Part 4 41:50, Gruff states the dispatch log states it was TH that called from Catfish Island. Don't know how credible that is in your opinion, but maybe it helps you out with a theory.

 

[8771]

i wasn't a fan of the forgotten WM3 miniseries. ruff leaves out a lot of key details and is far too focused on the whole animal predation thing. the most interesting part for me was jim clemente. i think he brought up a lot of key points that point to the killer being someone who knew the boys and the area well

the clothes being removed will always baffle me. especially when you consider there were socks and underwear missing. where did they go? assuming the killer was on foot, he left the clothes because he didn't want to be seen carrying them. how do you explain the missing items then? trophies maybe? or you could argue the bodies and clothes were brought back to the scene and the killer forgot to bring the missing items to dump.

I started the docuseries, but I was too burnt out from 30+ hours of the podcast to watch anything further. The podcast didn't go into the theory of the 4th boy, though, so I am listening to the podcast recaps of the series (this is getting ridiculous now haha) to get the Cliffs notes.

Re the clothing, if I go down Ruff's thought path, I always assumed the few missing items were overlooked by the perp and washed down stream before the boys were found. Idk the logistics of that actually being possible, though.

 

[DHT1339]

I started the docuseries, but I was too burnt out from 30+ hours of the podcast to watch anything further. The podcast didn't go into the theory of the 4th boy, though, so I am listening to the podcast recaps of the series (this is getting ridiculous now haha) to get the Cliffs notes.

Re the clothing, if I go down Ruff's thought path, I always assumed the few missing items were overlooked by the perp and washed down stream before the boys were found. Idk the logistics of that actually being possible, though.

yeah that's a possibility too. do we know if the water in the creek was stagnant or if it was actually flowing? if the clothes had been forgotten in the creek, they couldn't have moved very far because the water in the creek looked more stagnant than anything based off the footage of the crime scene

and in regards to your last post, ruff makes a big deal out of TH waiting for the police to come to catfish island instead of going home to see if stevie had returned and meeting them there. it certainly does raise a few eyebrows but then again, if he called the police from there it'd make more sense for him to just stay there and meet with them instead of telling them to meet him at his house. or the police told him to stay there

 

[Blonded]

Recently someone uploaded some of the Terry Hobbs deposition onto youtube. There have been 5 parts on day one and 2 pars of day two. Daphne Blake I wonder if anyone here has the rest of day one at least? I know there are five more parts and they used to be on vimeo. I would be very curious to see them.

 

[fr brown]

GSK sometimes tied his victims up with shoelaces. He brought his own, though. I remember that he left something under a sofa in a pre-assault break-in which he then used during the assault. Was it shoelaces?

The perpetrator in Netflix's "Unbelievable" used a woman's own shoelaces to tie her up. He left her tied so using hers might have been strictly utilitarian. (He had brought a lot of other gear with him.)

Tying people up with shoelaces seems to be a thing. I imagine there's an erotic component. Whoever committed this crime had probably done the shoelace bit before, though perhaps not in commission of a crime.

While GSK did bring shoelaces with him, I've since learned that he also would use shoelaces belonging to the victims.

Imo, this crime was committed by a sexual sadist.

 

[Ozoner]

There will always be a question mark over Hobbs' head in connection with this crime, and the WMPD are very much to blame for that. If they'd eliminated him as a suspect in the initial investigation he wouldn't be facing this lingering suspicion now, because even the defense's own expert described the hair at the crime scene as weak evidence.

As it is, they didn't interview Hobbs at the time, they didn't interview David Jacoby who was his main alibi witness, they didn't canvass the neighbourhood round the Hobbs home very thoroughly, they seem to have just forgotten Terry Hobbs existed. When the DNA results came back, I remember Mike Allen coming out with a very dismissive, contemptuous statement which included the extraordinary admission that "Terry Hobbs wasn't a suspect in 1993 and he's not a suspect now." Why the heck wasn't he a suspect in 1993? As one of the victims step father's he would have been a suspect in any thorough police investigation.

To me, it's patently obvious that TH committed these murders. LE will never investigate him in any serious way because they want to stick to their story that they got the right guys the first time.

 

[7Wm3100]

To me, it's patently obvious that TH committed these murders. LE will never investigate him in any serious way because they want to stick to their story that they got the right guys the first time.

I dont quite get it. Hobbs has an alibi of sorts. Whereas echols, jason and miskelley have no alibi whatsoever. No one has stood up and said they seen them elsewhere around the estimated time of death. All we,ve got is a sighting of echols near the crime scene. Miskelley claiming 3 of them done it. And a failed alibi witness who said jasons gran told her echols and jason we,re out together. Not one single person has testified of seeing any of them during the estimated time of death.

Hobbs was seen by people. Jacoby seen him and spent time with him 3 seperate times that night.

I think they worked out hobbs had about an hour to find the boys. Round them up. Kill them then tie them up in 3 different knots. Then dispose of them etc

Its just not really doable.

Where we,re the west memphis 3 that night. We know that terry was searching for his kid. To this day echols, jason and miskelley have no alibi whatsoever. No mum and dad sighting. Or siblings. Or girlfriends. Or friends. Or anyone for that matter.

3 people and not one has an alibi. Thats unbelievably unusual for innocent people anyway.

 

[DHT1339]

I dont quite get it. Hobbs has an alibi of sorts. Whereas echols, jason and miskelley have no alibi whatsoever. No one has stood up and said they seen them elsewhere around the estimated time of death. All we,ve got is a sighting of echols near the crime scene. Miskelley claiming 3 of them done it. And a failed alibi witness who said jasons gran told her echols and jason we,re out together. Not one single person has testified of seeing any of them during the estimated time of death.

Hobbs was seen by people. Jacoby seen him and spent time with him 3 seperate times that night.

I think they worked out hobbs had about an hour to find the boys. Round them up. Kill them then tie them up in 3 different knots. Then dispose of them etc

Its just not really doable.

Where we,re the west memphis 3 that night. We know that terry was searching for his kid. To this day echols, jason and miskelley have no alibi whatsoever. No mum and dad sighting. Or siblings. Or girlfriends. Or friends. Or anyone for that matter.

3 people and not one has an alibi. Thats unbelievably unusual for innocent people anyway.

hobbs denies he ever saw the boys that day

but his neighbor claims he was talking to them in the front yard while they were on their bikes

david jacoby himself denies ever being with hobbs in the woods. he says the only time they spent together outside his house was driving around for a little while. by jacoby's account, hobbs was alone for most of the night and the only times he'd see him was when hobbs would pick him up to go look for the boys and then drop him off again, which happened a few times

hobbs also places himself in the woods between 6 and 630 and claims that tons of people were out looking for the boys. impossible since they weren't confirmed missing until 8

hobbs claims he met with dana moore and JMB before 6 PM. again, impossible because the boys were not confirmed missing at 6 PM. furthermore, JMB says he never saw hobbs at that time period

if you call that a solid alibi, then i really don't know what to tell you

 

[7Wm3100]

hobbs denies he ever saw the boys that day

but his neighbor claims he was talking to them in the front yard while they were on their bikes

david jacoby himself denies ever being with hobbs in the woods. he says the only time they spent together outside his house was driving around for a little while. by jacoby's account, hobbs was alone for most of the night and the only times he'd see him was when hobbs would pick him up to go look for the boys and then drop him off again, which happened a few times

hobbs also places himself in the woods between 6 and 630 and claims that tons of people were out looking for the boys. impossible since they weren't confirmed missing until 8

hobbs claims he met with dana moore and JMB before 6 PM. again, impossible because the boys were not confirmed missing at 6 PM. furthermore, JMB says he never saw hobbs at that time period

if you call that a solid alibi, then i really don't know what to tell you

Hobbs was in jacobys house for a while before going out searching for the kids. He then comes back to jacobys two other times that same night. And is seen by people out searching for the kids. Its been narrowed down to hobbs having about an hour to do everything. Impossible. Hes also tying 3 kids up using 3 different knots. Again highly improbable.

What is echols alibi. Jasons and miskelleys.

Peolle seen hobbs on the night. We know where he was. The only sightings we have of the 3...is a confession saying they done it. A sighting saying echols was muddy outsidd the woods...and a girl who said jasons gran told her on the phone jason and echols we,re out together.

What we,re they up to that night? We keel asking for hobbs alibi and marks alibi. I think we need to get echols and misskelly and jasons alibi. Jason never gave one. Echols one was proven false as well as miskelleys.

We,ve got jacoby for hobbs. On three seperate occasions one for an hour and a half. Two other ones. Where we,re jason, echols and miskelley.

Cant believe the producers of paradise lost insisted on one for hobbs and byers and yet never done the same for echols. Kind of reveals there motive...they we,rent ever interested in who killed them boys...only to get echols out.

 

[DHT1339]

Hobbs was in jacobys house for a while before going out searching for the kids. He then comes back to jacobys two other times that same night. And is seen by people out searching for the kids. Its been narrowed down to hobbs having about an hour to do everything. Impossible. Hes also tying 3 kids up using 3 different knots. Again highly improbable.

What is echols alibi. Jasons and miskelleys.

Peolle seen hobbs on the night. We know where he was. The only sightings we have of the 3...is a confession saying they done it. A sighting saying echols was muddy outsidd the woods...and a girl who said jasons gran told her on the phone jason and echols we,re out together.

What we,re they up to that night? We keel asking for hobbs alibi and marks alibi. I think we need to get echols and misskelly and jasons alibi. Jason never gave one. Echols one was proven false as well as miskelleys.

We,ve got jacoby for hobbs. On three seperate occasions one for an hour and a half. Two other ones. Where we,re jason, echols and miskelley.

Cant believe the producers of paradise lost insisted on one for hobbs and byers and yet never done the same for echols. Kind of reveals there motive...they we,rent ever interested in who killed them boys...only to get echols out.

if hobbs feels he's innocent, why lie about not seeing the boys that day? the neighbor claims they saw hobbs with the boys. and jacoby himself says he saw the boys riding down the street on their bikes when hobbs came over to play guitar

echols alibi was never "proven false." it just changed a few times because he wasn't able to remember certain times for certain things. if someone asked you what you were doing two months ago on a certain night at 7 PM, you likely wouldn't remember because it was just an ordinary night. if echols really was guilty, he'd remember everything about that day because it would stand out to him

baldwin's defense team never presented an alibi for him. that doesn't mean he didn't have one. there were witnesses who would've been able to corroborate his whereabouts for that night but they weren't called to testify, likely because his attorneys saw how that went for JM's trial.

JM's alibi is lengthy and you can look it up on your own. his defense team had his friends come in and testify during his trial. but unfortunately for JM, it became apparent that one or two of the kids who testified had not been there on the night of the 5th, but instead on another night. the prosecution jumped on this and was able to use it to convince the jury that the entire alibi was faulty. all the other "regulars" who testified said JM never missed a night and was there on 5/5

 

[7Wm3100]

if hobbs feels he's innocent, why lie about not seeing the boys that day? the neighbor claims they saw hobbs with the boys. and jacoby himself says he saw the boys riding down the street on their bikes when hobbs came over to play guitar

echols alibi was never "proven false." it just changed a few times because he wasn't able to remember certain times for certain things. if someone asked you what you were doing two months ago on a certain night at 7 PM, you likely wouldn't remember because it was just an ordinary night. if echols really was guilty, he'd remember everything about that day because it would stand out to him

baldwin's defense team never presented an alibi for him. that doesn't mean he didn't have one. there were witnesses who would've been able to corroborate his whereabouts for that night but they weren't called to testify, likely because his attorneys saw how that went for JM's trial.

JM's alibi is lengthy and you can look it up on your own. his defense team had his friends come in and testify during his trial. but unfortunately for JM, it became apparent that one or two of the kids who testified had not been there on the night of the 5th, but instead on another night. the prosecution jumped on this and was able to use it to convince the jury that the entire alibi was faulty. all the other "regulars" who testified said JM never missed a night and was


Can you clarify at what point the neighbours came forward to say hobbs seen the kids that day. That was a recent revelation? So for 18 years they never mentioned it. Never said a word. Pretty sure the police wanted to talk to anyone that had any sort of knowledge. Jacoby saying he seen them that day...when did he share that with yhe police or anyone else. At the time or many many years later.

What is echols alibi to this day? So he changed it from the false one? What is his alibi then?

Yet i m pretty sure echols was spoken to on the 7th. The boys we,re found on the 6th. Killed on the 5th. Damien was spoken to first on the 7th. He cant remember what he was up to two days earlier. The supporters say echols was zoned in on from early. Surely he was asked for an alibi early into the investigation then. His alibi was talking on the phone to three different girls. They girls turn up and all of them say it was much earlier in the day. One was meant to phone him back at 8. She did...jasons gran told her he was out with jason.

Why are you saying echols wouldnt remember 2 months ago when asked for an alibi if he was zoned in on from the start? Are you telling me it took them two months to ask for an alibi? Or are we talking a couple of days.

You said echols alibi wasnt proven false. What is his alibi then. He was a person of interest from the 7th. No one asked him for an alibi?

You say if echols was really guilty...he,d have remembered everything because it would stand out.

Are you being serious?

Are you seriously telling us it points to him being innocent because he doesnt remember what he was up to. Are we not taking into account...he,d probably be trying to not implicate himself.

Again your seriously telling me baldwin who got life with no parole...didnt bother with an alibi....because it never went well for miskelly. They just thought...we,ve got people that know where you we,re...we just cant be bothered with it. Seriously? He got life in jail. I m not sure anyone with a real alibi has ever just not bothered with it. Again tho today what is his alibi.

Now miskelley...i think we all know his alibi fell apart because he wasnt at wrestling that night. Can you confirm if that is still jessies alibi to this day.

 

[Ozoner]

Can you clarify at what point the neighbours came forward to say hobbs seen the kids that day. That was a recent revelation? So for 18 years they never mentioned it. Never said a word. Pretty sure the police wanted to talk to anyone that had any sort of knowledge. Jacoby saying he seen them that day...when did he share that with yhe police or anyone else. At the time or many many years later.

BBM
No, they didn't. They didn't investigate Hobbs in any serious way.

The WM3 were incompetent teenagers; if they had committed this crime, there would have been a mountain of forensic evidence. There was none.

Never mind that none of the WM3 even come close to matching the profile of the perp. (Hobbs fits it to a t.)

 

[7Wm3100]

BBM
No, they didn't. They didn't investigate Hobbs in any serious way.

The WM3 were incompetent teenagers; if they had committed this crime, there would have been a mountain of forensic evidence. There was none.

Never mind that none of the WM3 even come close to matching the profile of the perp. (Hobbs fits it to a t.)

Anyone willing to put up echols mental health records....and tell me he doesnt fit the profile of this crime with a serious face.

The west memphis 3 were incompetent teenagers and hobbs was a criminal mastermind. Do people realise in cases that go to trial very few actually have 100 percent dna evidence. Do people realise that?

 

[Ozoner]

Anyone willing to put up echols mental health records....and tell me he doesnt fit the profile of this crime with a serious face.

The west memphis 3 were incompetent teenagers and hobbs was a criminal mastermind. Do people realise in cases that go to trial very few actually have 100 percent dna evidence. Do people realise that?

I didn't say anything about DNA evidence. I mentioned forensic evidence.

Your comments about Echols tell me that you know very little about profiling. Echols may be capable of violence, but he doesn't match the basic profile of the perp in this case in any way, shape, or form.

This crime has all the hallmarks of a very personal crime, not a stranger killing or thrill kill.

The prosecution's theory of the case was laughable. Local law enforcement was not up to the task.

 

[7Wm3100]

I didn't say anything about DNA evidence. I mentioned forensic evidence.

Your comments about Echols tell me that you know very little about profiling. Echols may be capable of violence, but he doesn't match the basic profile of the perp in this case in any way, shape, or form.

This crime has all the hallmarks of a very personal crime, not a stranger killing or thrill kill.

The prosecution's theory of the case was laughable. Local law enforcement was not up to the task.

There was nothing laughable about the prosecutions theory. People have just been hoodwinked into believing turtles done it.

In a day. In a small stream. I m saying unlikely.

The defence pulled a masterstroke changing the narration of the case.

But looking at what was found...tell me echols doesnt fit the profile. What people dont realise is the defence is not working on gathering facts what their working on is whats possible to push this crime away from the west memphis 3.

Unfortunately gullible people believe it.

Can we put up some of echols severe mental problems and violence. And see if he can match the profile.