Weekend Discussion Thread 3/24-26/2012

[BorgQueen]

Even it I already knew it, and if she swore on a stack of Bibles, I wouldn't believe TLM to tell me her name.

She has done far more than tell one story and recant parts of it.

At her sentencing, she stood sobbing and sniffling before the grieving parents, and told them how sorry she was, and then proceeded to allow them to believe the lie that MTR committed the final acts, and she just doesn't know why she didn't intervene. We now know it was nothing but an act. She was lying and continued the charade for years.

The defense asserts that shortly after that sentencing hearing, she told her godmother that she wasn't sorry for what she had done, except that it involved a little girl, and would probably do it again.

Her "recollections" consist of a clear memory of what MTR was doing but somewhat foggy memories of what she was doing, and she always presents herself as the "caring" one of the two.

She presents herself as a sobbing, repentant, misguided young person, until she walks out of earshot.........and then she morphs right back into her true character.

Maybe MTR is the evil scum portrayed by the Crown............but I wouldn't want to accept a single word of TLM's statements or testimony as evidence of that fact.

I sincerely hope the Crown has undeniable evidence about what happened on that terrible day, so everyone can discount TLM's testimony altogether, and find the truth elsewhere.

What I don't understand is... why lie? I still don't think she is telling the truth. I don't think she was telling the truth then, either. No idea what the truth is, but she hasn't told it.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

What I don't understand is... why lie? I still don't think she is telling the truth. I don't think she was telling the truth then, either. No idea what the truth is, but she hasn't told it.

In her mind she is probably the most important part of the Crown's case. In a way that gives her a lot of power in general and power over MTR. Maybe changing her story is her way of flexing her muscle so to speak.

 

[~n/t~]

If people don't believe she's telling the truth then why believe she was the one who used the hammer? Maybe she lied about that too. Or do we pick and choose what we want to believe? The facts will tell the story. I have no doubt the jury will see right through the lies (both the convicted murderer and the accused murderer's ).

I'd like to believe that the 12 people sitting and doing their duty, watching and listening to the evidence have common sense!

 

[~n/t~]

For nursebee. A little boost so she will open up today's thread.

 

[snoofer]

IF IMO MTR was so "afraid" of TLM...then WHY get his MOTHER to help TLM's mother when she is in detention?

If you listen to the audio tape when referring to TM he says the little girls "mom" with the same intonation as he does when he says "my mom" talking to the officer in the audio clip....not sure why this bothers me...or what it means...but strange to use the same intonation saying "mom" when he is disparaging her about drugs...then use the same intonation using the word "mom" talking about his own mother.

IMO people just dont "leave town" together without discussion...nor do you put a strange child in your car without discussion....and IF crown is correct..you sure don't commit those atrocities without discussion. IMO

IMO a man almost 30 doesn't just go straight to atrocities without a lengthy history of other disturbing behavior. I wonder if LE is goin back into MTR in depth history over the past 20 years IMO

I defo will keep an open mind (innocent til proven guilty) but common sense tells me that these things are VERY hard to explain...will be interested to hear the upcoming evidence. All my opinion as all on this board I say is purely opinion.

Curious IF he defense were to say or proove that the back car seat was not in the car at the time of the murder...where was it...why was it removed...it just begs for more mystery and aha talk IMO

That poor Amanda, as well as obviously Tori's family. Amanda must be feeling IMO that she dodged a bullet and it this has to just creep her the hell out. I also wonder if the defense and crown have come to an agreement behind closed doors to limit the testimony's and impact on Tori's families and that is why some of the issues with drugs have been skirted over as irregardless of those issues....IT WOULD BE CRUEL to drag them through this in a heartless way. My heart goes out to them and the torturous thoughts they must have with the "what if's". Unimaginable to be any one of them.:rocker:

 

[puppyraiser]

At one point during the trial she said that in January she admitted things so that she wouldn't have to testify. Was she "afraid" her tough girl status in jail would diminish because she would be testifying against her co-accused and thus earn herself the status of a snitch or did she finally realize that her lies might be putting someone in jail for a long time? Or, is she following through with her so called promise to take the fall for him? I don't see MR as someone having the guts to kill but I believe he has some sexually perverse tendencies and might have entertained the idea of kidnapping a child.

Sometimes, as in the cases of PB/KH and RW) the least likely suspects are the ones who are the most dangerous. MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

...exactly my point thanks Dilert...he drives all the way to Guelph to for a hammer ..????.and he is a handyman ..doing odd jobs all the time ?...hmmm...and how would Terri lynn know the area where Tori was murdered ?,,,,she does not even drive ..????.....and we are to believe the defense that it all was Terri Lynn who was the driving force...I know she is no Princess of character but to suggest Micheal Rafferty just came back to HIS CAr to see Tori dead...hmmm is anyone else not finding this hard to understand aside from me ??????....wondering.....my opnion again...robynhood !

TLM could know the area because she use to live there.

Adrian Morrow ‏ @AdrianMorrow
McClintic has lived across the province -- Guelph, Fergus, Sturgeon Falls -- grew up without any siblings. Her mother was on ODSP as she

Adrian Morrow ‏ @AdrianMorrow
grew up. Her biological mother and Carol McClintic worked together as dancers before she was born.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Oh and to add to the "bodily harm" statement. Could it be because TLM said Tori was bleeding when she went to the washroom? Not to be disgusting here but, there is no mention of whether Tori had a bowel movement or urinated or both. And not to make light of the fact, we've had heard the expression "scared *****less" or "scared the carp out of someone", it does happen. Should there have been enough remains to work with, the autopsy could show damages to either one or both orifices of her body. HTH and MOO.

McClintic said she took Stafford to go pee outside after the first assaults, and held her hand so the girl wouldn't fall.
"There was blood on the snow. I told her I was sorry," McClintic said.
"Just don't let him do it again," Tori pleaded.

http://m.calgarysun.com/2012/03/13/terri-lynne-mcclintic-tells-her-story

According to your link and quote, there was mention of whether she had a bowel movement or urinated. As for being "scared *****less", maybe that's what happened to the back seat.

Am I the only one who thinks it's odd that an 8 year old would ask to go to the bathroom in the middle of being sexually assaulted? I would have thought she would no longer have that control and would just let it go.

 

[Alethea Dice]

It's interesting why they went to interview MR in the first place.

OPP Det. Const. Colin Darmon testified he and his partner Gord Johnson ended up at Rafferty's house that day and questioned him because they wanted information about McClintic before she took a polygraph test May 19. Taken into custody on an unrelated warrant April 12, McClintic had already denied any involvement.

Darmon testified he and Johnson reviewed her April 12 statement in mid May and found a few inconsistencies.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/23/19543041.html

 

[Alethea Dice]

Even if I already knew it, and if she swore on a stack of Bibles, I wouldn't believe TLM to tell me her name.

She has done far more than tell one story and recant parts of it.

At her sentencing, she stood sobbing and sniffling before the grieving parents, and told them how sorry she was, and then proceeded to deny them the truth of by whose hands their daughter died.........hers. She blamed MTR and allowed them to believe he committed the final act. Her statements that she just doesn't know why she didn't intervene, was a complete fabrication. We now know it was nothing but an act. She continued the charade for years, until this January.

The defense asserts that TLM told her godmother that she wasn't sorry for what she had done, except that it involved a little girl, and would probably do it again.

Her "recollections" consist of a clear memory of what MTR was doing but conveniently foggy memories of what she was doing, and continuing to present herself as the "caring" one of the two.

The public persona she exhibits is a sobbing, repentant, misguided young person damaged by a lifetime of abuse and drugs, until she walks out of earshot.........and then she morphs right back into her truly evil character.

Maybe MTR is the evil scum portrayed by the Crown............but I wouldn't want to accept a single word of TLM's statements or testimony as evidence of that fact.

I sincerely hope the Crown has undeniable evidence about what happened on that terrible day, so everyone can discount TLM's testimony altogether, and find the truth elsewhere.

JMO

She certainly wasn't too repentant shortly after being arrested.

Derstine also showed the jury entries McClintic had made in her diary while in prison at Genest Detention Centre in London after she was arrested for an outstanding probation warrant in April 2009.

She raged about being incarcerated with younger people and at one point wrote: “I’m ... getting blood-thirsty again, it’s like I’m ... relapsin’ a bit.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/1151011--tori-stafford-murder-trial-mcclintic-was-killing-s-mastermind-lawyer-charges

 

[nursebeeme]

opening the trial thread for today (move on over)