The influence of MSM coverage regarding the Trayvon Martin case

[LambChop]

Will juries be excused for attending these "rallies" or being a member of these churches or any church affliated with ones holding these events? How can anyone know the damage the Crump/Martin entourage is doing to the jury pool?

Innocent until proven guilty or until the grieving parents are brought to your Church to move you to fury.

If GZ has his charges dismissed, I hope he sues.

Okay, I'll bite. What would he sue for?

 

[cityslick]

Okay, I'll bite. What would he sue for?

Defamation of character?

I don't know, just throwing it out there.

 

[LambChop]

Defamation of character?

I don't know, just throwing it out there.

Ahhhhh, we've heard the call GZ made to dispatch and his description of TM. His past arrest records are public knowledge. I think the parents are after the SYG law are they not? All the Martin's have asked for is justice, a trial. Seems pretty standard stuff up to this point. GZ is responsible for his character and he admitted shooting TM. That doesn't leave a whole lot more for anyone to say about him. It's out there and with the trial there will be more to come. jmo

 

[vlpate]

Is it known that the youth that were committing the break-ins entered by foot?

One pair were in a car, the others on the reports were coming through a cut through in the back of the community.

I haven't seen any resident describe these break-ins as terrifying?

The details of the Twin Lakes Burglary Reports with witness statements detail one victim who was so terrified she moved out immediately. This was the woman who observed two black youths at her door from her bedroom window. When she didn't answer, they came in and she hid with her baby while calling 911. She listened to them going through her house until police came. GZ knew this because he spoke with the poor woman after it happened. I imagine he was afraid for his own wife who studied at home while he worked. Of course this didn't make headlines during or after the big media blitz - Corey made sure those reports came down before submitting her over-charged probable cause document.

How "terrified" does a person have to be to warrant wanting to protect their home and loved ones? It's like the degree of terror GZ was supposed feel before shooting TM, at what point do we decide how much is enough to satisfy the masses and shoot our attacker?

JMO

 

[LambChop]

One pair were in a car, the others on the reports were coming through a cut through in the back of the community.

The details of the Twin Lakes Burglary Reports with witness statements detail one victim who was so terrified she moved out immediately. This was the woman who observed two black youths at her door from her bedroom window. When she didn't answer, they came in and she hid with her baby while calling 911. She listened to them going through her house until police came. GZ knew this because he spoke with the poor woman after it happened. I imagine he was afraid for his own wife who studied at home while he worked. Of course this didn't make headlines during or after the big media blitz - Corey made sure those reports came down before submitting her over-charged probable cause document.

How "terrified" does a person have to be to warrant wanting to protect their home and loved ones? It's like the degree of terror GZ was supposed feel before shooting TM, at what point do we decide how much is enough to satisfy the masses and shoot our attacker?

JMO

We buy an alarm system with a loud horn on the outside. Scare the carpola out of them I say. Makes more sense then getting into an altercation with an innocent young man who was just walking home. jmo

 

[Nana46]

Ahhhhh, we've heard the call GZ made to dispatch and his description of TM. His past arrest records are public knowledge. I think the parents are after the SYG law are they not? All the Martin's have asked for is justice, a trial. Seems pretty standard stuff up to this point. GZ is responsible for his character and he admitted shooting TM. That doesn't leave a whole lot more for anyone to say about him. It's out there and with the trial there will be more to come. jmo

LambChop you have the most respectful posts....I admire you. Keep up the good work!!!!

 

[vlpate]

Will juries be excused for attending these "rallies" or being a member of these churches or any church affliated with ones holding these events? How can anyone know the damage the Crump/Martin entourage is doing to the jury pool?

Innocent until proven guilty or until the grieving parents are brought to your Church to move you to fury.

If GZ has his charges dismissed, I hope he sues.

I would think NBC would be first up. They are the ones who put out the story again, as if it were new, that the FBI could file charges on GZ for a hate crime. Much wishful thinking on their part, methinks.

 

[cityslick]

He probably could also go after NBC for the whole 911 fiasco.

 

[Karmady]

We buy an alarm system with a loud horn on the outside. Scare the carpola out of them I say. Makes more sense then getting into an altercation with an innocent young man who was just walking home. jmo

I don't want to buy an alarm system with a loud horn. I want, and have an absolute right, not to have criminals break in to my home. If there are problems attorney Crump should be focusing on, they are the crime committed by black youth (assuming he wants to continue to confine his efforts to the black community), the reasons for that, and the justice system that slaps them on the wrist and turns them lose. Otherwise, we will continue to have more and more crime with fewer and fewer consequences. Not to mention the fact that jail/prison life is now so relatively non-punitive many criminals don't even mind being there. jmo

 

[suzihawk]

I don't want to buy an alarm system with a loud horn. I want, and have an absolute right, not to have criminals break in to my home. If there are problems attorney Crump should be focusing on, they are the crime committed by black youth (assuming he wants to continue to confine his efforts to the black community), the reasons for that, and the justice system that slaps them on the wrist and turns them lose. Otherwise, we will continue to have more and more crime with fewer and fewer consequences. Not to mention the fact that jail/prison life is now so relatively non-punitive many criminals don't even mind being there. jmo

Wouldn't that be ideal? Of course, we all want, and have a right, not to be victims of crime. Unfortunately, that's not the society we currently live in. We live in a society that bestows more rights to the criminals and the accused than to the victims of those criminals. Until the victims (or potential victims) have the same rights as the criminals under the law, we're left to provide whatever protection for ourselves as individually deemed necessary.

 

[Karmady]

Wouldn't that be ideal? Of course, we all want, and have a right, not to be victims of crime. Unfortunately, that's not the society we currently live in. We live in a society that bestows more rights to the criminals and the accused than to the victims of those criminals. Until the victims (or potential victims) have the same rights as the criminals under the law, we're left to provide whatever protection for ourselves as individually deemed necessary.

haha...finally found something we can agree on!

 

[gxm]

We buy an alarm system with a loud horn on the outside. Scare the carpola out of them I say. Makes more sense then getting into an altercation with an innocent young man who was just walking home. jmo

What if they don't have the money to afford and install an alarm system?

 

[gxm]

Is this a new precedence in a new media stategy. Having the grieving parents go on the road WITH THE LAWYER ...pre-trial? And then friendly media write emotional fury-inducing articles?

Maybe the parents of Eve Carson who truly WAS shot in the street like a dog should have made the national rounds pre-trial of her killers? And the Channon/Newsome families? This is justice now in America?

Should we make this a new media PRE TRial norm.

You can delete this but it is SHAMEFUL. Raise money AFTER trial and report about it then.

BBM. It's interesting that you mention Eve Carson. I've been thinking about her, and I'm wondering when the folks who cry "profiling" think it would have been okay for her to shoot her killers. Would have it been okay for her to shoot them as they approached her? Or would she have to wait until right before they killed her? If she had "profiled" them as they approached her, she would be alive today, and probably sitting in jail even though she would have been correct in assuming they meant her harm. It's a catch 22.

With that in mind, let's consider that GZ waited until TM was beating him to draw his gun. He did not get out of his car, draw his gun and shoot TM when he first saw him. He waited until he was being beaten and felt his life was in danger.

IMO, this whole "anti-profiling" propaganda that the MSM is trying to sell is really rather bizarre. Why can't citizens assess their personal threat level? Why are white people being told that if they feel threatened by a person of color they're racist? Nobody tells people of color they aren't allowed to feel threatened by a white person. IMO, the individual—who is living in the real world in real time and is not just some abstract demographic—is probably much more able to gauge their personal situation than some ideologue meme-maker who is sitting miles away in the comfort of his own private vacuum.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

 

[annalia]

Any comparison to Eve Carson or the Newsome/Channon murders is absurd on every level.

The circumstances surrounding those brutal, horrific murders don't in any way shape or from compare to what happened in this case. And in both those cases police did their jobs, their killers were also tried and convicted, to which I'm sure their grieving families were grateful to our justice system for, even though the horrors of their deaths will remain with them for the rest of their lives.

If it's that important to compare them and if one really wanted to be honest, then Trayvon would be compared to the victims as he was doing nothing more than minding his own business going to and from the store, when GZ spotted him and decided that he was his judge, jury and executioner.

There's also no comparison in trying to claim that white people cannot feel threatened by people of color to this case, GZ had the option to stay in his car and wait for police instead of gunning down an innocent kid on the way home from the store. Trayvon was no threat to him whatsoever. Trayvon forced him to do nothing, everything was in GZ's court that night, it started and ended with him, he made the choices that ended a kid's life.

 

[gxm]

Any comparison to Eve Carson or the Newsome/Channon murders is absurd on every level.

The circumstances surrounding those brutal, horrific murders don't in any way shape or from compare to what happened in this case. And in both those cases police did their jobs, their killers were also tried and convicted, to which I'm sure their grieving families were grateful to our justice system for, even though the horrors of their deaths will remain with them for the rest of their lives.

If it's that important to compare them and if one really wanted to be honest, then Trayvon would be compared to the victims as he was doing nothing more than minding his own business going to and from the store, when GZ spotted him and decided that he was his judge, jury and executioner.

There's also no comparison in trying to claim that white people cannot feel threatened by people of color to this case, GZ had the option to stay in his car and wait for police instead of gunning down an innocent kid on the way home from the store. Trayvon was no threat to him whatsoever. Trayvon forced him to do nothing, everything was in GZ's court that night, it started and ended with him, he made the choices that ended a kid's life.

My point is that the media, with Crump's guidance, created this whole false "profiling" meme. IMO, citizens can't profile. They're just citizens. Profiling is a term that should be used in law enforcement, not the way the media has distorted it. If someone's hinky meter goes off, they should be allowed to listen to it and not be called racist. Instead, we read about how black men hear car doors lock when they walk by as if this is some sort of confrontational and/or aggressive form of racism that causes great emotional harm.

TM became a threat to GZ when he started physically attacking him. And that's when GZ defended himself. Which seems to me to be the appropriate time to introduce the gun. As opposed to just stepping out of his car and shooting TM as he walked by. Which GZ didn't do.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

 

[vlpate]

We buy an alarm system with a loud horn on the outside. Scare the carpola out of them I say. Makes more sense then getting into an altercation with an innocent young man who was just walking home. jmo

The loud horns only scare them from your house and family, but there are always others with easier access.

 

[Mendara]

BBM. It's interesting that you mention Eve Carson. I've been thinking about her, and I'm wondering when the folks who cry "profiling" think it would have been okay for her to shoot her killers. Would have it been okay for her to shoot them as they approached her? Or would she have to wait until right before they killed her? If she had "profiled" them as they approached her, she would be alive today, and probably sitting in jail even though she would have been correct in assuming they meant her harm. It's a catch 22.

With that in mind, let's consider that GZ waited until TM was beating him to draw his gun. He did not get out of his car, draw his gun and shoot TM when he first saw him. He waited until he was being beaten and felt his life was in danger.

IMO, this whole "anti-profiling" propaganda that the MSM is trying to sell is really rather bizarre. Why can't citizens access their personal threat level? Why are white people being told that if they feel threatened by a person of color they're racist? Nobody tells people of color they aren't allowed to feel threatened by a white person. IMO, the individual—who is living in the real world in real time and is not just some abstract demographic—is probably much more able to gauge their personal situation than some ideologue meme-maker who is sitting miles away in the comfort of his own private vacuum.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

This may be OT:

First I want to say I am Puerto Rican (just in case you thought I was white, but to some I am a WHITE Hispanic eyes rolling.)

Next I want to say I agree with you. Do we live in a world where criminals come with a sign that tell us right away that they are criminals? Do the signs also tell you if they are about to commit their first offense on you?

NO I think NOT. We live in a world of statistics, MSM polarizations of criminals and local facts.

THE PROFILE of the criminals that were breaking into these homes was in fact BLACK YOUTH. Trayvon was a BLACK YOUTH, he fit the profile because he was BLACK and a YOUTH in a neighborhood where BLACK YOUTHS were breaking into homes. GZ did not make this up. He saw a BLACK YOUTH walking around looking like he was ON DRUGS in a neighborhood that was having this specific issue. His first thought was not simply that Trayvon must be a criminal because he is black, but he had the local facts which were that YES he fit the profile of what GZ was watching out for. This was not a racial crime. It may be a crime of another beast but NOT racial. IMO

We live in a world where it is not okay to describe a suspicious person who is looking suspicious IF THEY ARE BLACK. If they are WHITE then we can say they are WHITE and suspicious. But if they are BLACK then we are saying that they are suspicious to us BECAUSE they are BLACK EVEN THOUGH we didn’t SAY THOSE WORDS, but only if the person who is reporting is not also BLACK because black on black profiling is RIDICULOUS (sarcasm).

I never understood why it is a huge no no to use race when you suspect someone might be dangerous. Like why I am a horrible person if I get nervous on a plane with a middle eastern man who I think looks suspicious, the terrorist who scarred me for life on 9-11 look like this man sitting next to me. I am sorry if I get nervous but those are facts that that man will have to live with. He may be innocent, but I don't know this.

If I know there is a rapist loose and he was described as a black male wearing red pants and I see a black man wearing red pants and I think could this be him and I cross the street, why am I wrong? Why should I assume I live in some UTOPIA where all black men should be considered innocent unless they are wearing a sign. If the rapist was described as white male wearing red pants and I have the SAME feelings when I see a white male am I wrong? Or am I just wrong when he is black?

I live in NYC and it looks to me like rikers (prison) is mostly full of minorities and most criminals polarized in the news are minorities here in NYC. That makes me sad and I hate that this is what it is, but it is a fact. Why is it wrong to say it out loud?

I think what happened that night was a chain of errors - bad situation made worse by bad choices and hysteria. I think what happened in the MSM after was horribly damaging and made things worse.

The real story was that a neighborhood was being burglarized by black youths and a neighborhood watch person thought he had spotted one in the neighborhood, he was ampted up, he was suspicious of the youth, he was following him thinking he caught one of them before a crime was committed, he at some point tells the 911 operator that "these as**oles always get away" which means that he really wants to catch him, why? To be the hero neighborhood watch guy? Maybe (error in judgement on GZ part).

Trayvon notices GZ and starts coming toward him according to GZ who is growing more suspicious and more ampted because he is convinced this is one of the youths. He think Trayvon has something in his hand.

Trayvon RUNS (misunderstanding) - why does he run? Is he afraid of GZ? Does he think GZ is a cop? Doesn't matter because now GZ is even more convinced that he is right. MO

Meanwhile the young teen had no idea what was happening in the neighborhood and saw a man watching him and seemed to be following him. He had no idea he fit the profile of the criminal teens. A misunderstanding came to ahead the youth believing he was being followed, the man believing he was looking at a criminal.

At one point on the call GZ loses TM. What happened next? How did they find each other again? Did Trayvon simply run and then come up behind GZ?

MO: The youth not knowing the man was armed confronted the man and knocked him to the ground the man not knowing the teen was not involved in the criminal acts fights the teen and becomes overtaken by who he believes is a criminal and he shoots him. The situation confusing and hysterical at that point. I heard the screams and they sound like GZ screaming for help. MO

What is the answer to what happened? Who was wrong? If GZ is right that he was being attacked, had he not had a gun and TM continued to beat him, would we care? or would this just go down in the neighborhood as another attack by a black youth?

Errors made by both. TM if he did have drugs in his system perhaps felt angry that he was being followed and did attack GZ, but in his ignorance did not expect to be shot and perhaps did not deserve to die over a few blows.

GZ should have called the police and stayed put, but did he know this was just some 17 year old kid who was visiting the neighborhood who currently was high and may lose his temper due to being followed?

GZ had a gun and may have invisioned some kind of citizens arrest, but it just did not go down that way.

MO - this is a huge tragedy and TM's parents at least do deserve to know what happened and the SYG law does not apply here. If GZ is claiming self defense then there needs to be a trial and a jury will decide. He should not get an automatic pass because of SYG - this is a life he took because of a misunderstanding, he should not have gone as far as he did and that needs to be investigated.

The MEDIA was wrong to make this about RACE.

MO

 

[stmarysmead]

BBM. It's interesting that you mention Eve Carson. I've been thinking about her, and I'm wondering when the folks who cry "profiling" think it would have been okay for her to shoot her killers. Would have it been okay for her to shoot them as they approached her? Or would she have to wait until right before they killed her? If she had "profiled" them as they approached her, she would be alive today, and probably sitting in jail even though she would have been correct in assuming they meant her harm. It's a catch 22.

With that in mind, let's consider that GZ waited until TM was beating him to draw his gun. He did not get out of his car, draw his gun and shoot TM when he first saw him. He waited until he was being beaten and felt his life was in danger.

IMO, this whole "anti-profiling" propaganda that the MSM is trying to sell is really rather bizarre. Why can't citizens access their personal threat level? Why are white people being told that if they feel threatened by a person of color they're racist? Nobody tells people of color they aren't allowed to feel threatened by a white person. IMO, the individual—who is living in the real world in real time and is not just some abstract demographic—is probably much more able to gauge their personal situation than some ideologue meme-maker who is sitting miles away in the comfort of his own private vacuum.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

Great post. And since when is it a law that I stay in my car if I suspect that a stranger in my neighborhood might pose a threat. And WHO has to stay in the car...can I charge profiling if I am watched for a few minutes by a resident in a minority neighborhood.
Profiling exists. It needs to be addressed when RACE is the prime reason or motivation for the action. To say GZ was "profiling" cheapens" the definition. And makes it so over broad that it is ridiculous.

He watched TM because the neighborhood had a problem with Black teenage CRIME.
Preventing that crime was the motivation. Are we to the point now that it's a hate crime punishable by death to observe strangers in your neighborhood?

This case should be about the shooting ALONE. Get the race element OUT. Why did GZ shoot? How did it happen?

We may as well be debating if TM hated White/Hispanics and was that the reason for the fight. This whole "profiling" aspect is unworthy of discussion.

IT WAS THE NEIGHBORHOOD CRIME PROBLEM!! Race only mattered because statistically Black teens were causing a lot of the problem.

 

[stmarysmead]

I bring up Eve Carson because that was a crime that also raised emotions very high. She asked her killers to pray with her before they shot her several times...truly like a dog...for what seemed like no reason.

Yet IMO those young men deserved a fair trial and a jury open to hearing evidence that might favor them. Maybe they were the wrong guys ...or one was. They deserved a jury untainted by the kind of media. PR strategies that are in play in this case.

Every defendant does.

I would not want to have seen Eve Carson's parents and their lawyer visiting Southern mega churches PRE-trial. This is absolutely appropriate after the trial...but pre-trial, it is determental to the ability to sit a impartial jury. It seems like a PR campaign and certainly is an extremely emotional experience judging by media reports. Is it fair or ethical (peaking of the lawyer here) pre-trial? I'm sure the parents in their grief look to the lawyers about what they should do.

I wonder if GZ's lawyer will question potential jurors about attending these emotional and yes, heart-wrenching events. I am NOT criticizing the parents here, but the Atty who should have a higher regard for justice and a fair trial for all.

 

[tehcloser]

We have known the media was screwed up for many years. Long before we ever heard of Trayvon Martin. It started getting screwed up about the time everyone started making everything political. Earthlings ceased being human and became fodder for the machine...it's not only the media's fault. It became acceptable by John Q. when he got lazy and didn't look outside his box. He simply accepted what the head in the box told him.