Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #31

[mtnlites]

In moo I think there may be some serious info come out about this case from the autopsy the prosecution did not expect . It seems they may need a another forensic expert perhaps to me imo

What in particular makes you think this?

 

[human]

Human.... I was just there a few days before this horrible event.... we drove right past the Watts neighborhood heading down Rt25 on the way back to airport..... the mountains are there (foothills)...
They look closer but maybe a 1/2 hour drive (based on going from our friends house in Berthoud into Rocky Mountain National Park).... someone who lives there would know better. It is flat area until the mountains start!

If he wanted to ditch her car but be able to run back home, is there a place that might work? Apparently he ran five miles all of the time so he could run further.

I cannot figure out a way that he could ditch the car and then get back home without assistance. Fold up bicycle?

It seems like a really stupid plan. He had a long time to think about one.

Even if someone took her out the back, how would the person evade detection unless everything happened through the back.

Did she leave with an imaginary friend that no one knows about? They were kidnapped from the home?

Did he set the stage in NC telling the woman about separation?

 

[gitana1]

<modsnip - removed quoted post>

People have posted link after link and repeated explanations as to what motivates these types and what may have motivated CW.

I understand most don't have time to read every post but this has been discussed repeatedly.

Family annihilator cases don't come close to <modsnip>a man who is just waiting years to kill his loved ones.

Instead, typically, these are people who feel they are living the life they're supposed to. They're doing what's expected of them by society - getting married and having kids.

But there's a defect there. Oh they may be fond of their kids. Think they're cute. They may have found their wife sexy and fun to be around at some point. Or maybe it's all always just flat and total mimicry at all times.

I think it likely varies depending on the murderer. Could be a combination.

But the commonality with these types of cases in which the murderer doesn't kill also kill themselves, (which in general seem to be differentiated from the more common family annihilator cases that involve murder suicide), the commonality is that there is a trigger, a flash point that makes these men decide they are no longer content, they are now desperate to be free, and because of defects in their character and soul, defects that usually aren't that apparent previously, they decide murder is the best method of becoming free.

So they go from someone who maybe enjoyed playing family man. Or maybe even enjoyed being the family man -getting attention for being a good provider, a good husband and great dad - to someone who is just going through the motions, or finally even to someone who loathes who they've become and what their life is.

Then comes a trigger. It is typically one or more of the following:
1. Financial pressures that won't be resolved by divorce.
2. An unwanted pregnancy and feeling trapped by that because it brings 18 years of burden and because leaving a pregnant wife looks bad to most people.
3. An affair. Suddenly they've found something new and exciting that they're obsessed with. It's highlights the mundanity of their lives as stolid, boring family men. These affairs give them what they may have missed or what they may never have experienced before (because some of these guys tend to be more introverted or seem to come into their own more after years being married and growing up). They feel excitement. They feel sexy and wanted and young.

Those are the three main triggers I've seen in these types of cases. It appears all three might be present here.

As to SW not being trashed on here, which I keep seeing insisted, I feel that's disingenuous and gaslighting.

Over and over people have stated their misgivings over the charges against CW and have listed or linked baseless allegations or speculation about SW's character or mental health in order to do so:
She had Munchausen's syndrome or MSBP.
She had OCD.
She had borderline personality disorder.
She was a cruel, neglectful and abusive mother.
She may not have murdered the girls but perhaps she drove CW insane or caused him to do what he did because she was a domestic abusing bully of her husband.

Several have coyly stated they have a theory as to how SW was the actual murderer but won't discuss it because- despite the fact that her reputation has been solidly trashed here, as at least one VI who loved her lamented - we don't want to now hurt those who love her.

I'm not going to spend time linking or reposting the dozens of posts to that effect. They're sad and I wish I had never seen them. But they've been numerous <modsnip>

 

[nwmouse]

They probably want to clarify which bones were broken post mortem or something. Because he was probably dragging them up and down stairs and in and out of cars. Jmo.

And it was mentioned here that CW may have needed to break bones in order to fit the toddler's into the crude oil vats.

 

[Nudgee]

Me too. In fact when I first heard about it I was surprised, but my first thought was that what he said may be true, until I saw his interviews and read everything I could find about it. I think for many people those initial interviews, all the lying and distancing himself from his loved ones, and body language led them to believe nothing he said after that could be trusted. Maybe some have changed their minds, it would be interesting to find out. Jmo

I’m one of those! While others in my house immediately thought he did it, I took those initial interviews (the smiling, etc) to be he was embarrassed. As though they had an “emotional conversation” & she had taken off with the kids and he was embarrassed it had turned into TV interviews: boy was I ever wrong!

 

[PommyMommy]

In moo I think there may be some serious info come out about this case from the autopsy the prosecution did not expect . It seems they may need a another forensic expert perhaps to me imo

Weld District Attorney Michael Rourke said he does not yet have the autopsy reports for Shanann Watts, 34, and her two daughters, Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3.
Weld DA Michael Rourke says he has not received autopsy reports in Christopher Watts case

The Weld County Coroner's Office has also confirmed that the reports are not yet available.
Autopsy reports in Watts case not available, prosecution says

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I’m late to the game, so maybe this has been discussed, but I’m wondering if maybe CW used SW’s hands to leave DNA on the daughters. Perhaps it’s taking the ME longer to determine perimortem vs postmortem? I personally feel there’s something unexpected because the family has returned and results still have not been released.

Who's family and how do you know?

 

[Hazelnutty]

In moo I think there may be some serious info come out about this case from the autopsy the prosecution did not expect . It seems they may need a another forensic expert perhaps to me imo

What serious info in your own opinion? What would cause them to need another forensic person?

 

[Gardenista]

Who's family and how do you know?

Shanann's mom, brother and a friend are in CO today per AB.

 

[MerryB]

I personally feel there’s something unexpected because the family has returned and results still have not been released.

SBM. I agree. There is something in that autopsy that has caused the state to seek the additional analysis of a forensic pathologist. IMO we may need to start stretching now to get a bit more flexible with our thinking. JMO

 

[Best of What's Around]

I really wonder what Chris' multiple unanswered texts to Shanann - the morning after he killed her - said. If they were just generic like "Hey, you up yet?" Or if they were fake sweet like "Morning beautiful, how are the girls?" Or if they tried to set any kind of stage that she may have walked out or referenced the "emotional conversation."

In watching the tv interviews of Chris' lies, it seemed like he couldn't commit to which approach/story/lie he wanted to take - if they had been "abducted" or if they had a "disagreement" and Shanann had left him. He just kept stammering on about how they "vanished." It was like in the interviews, you could just see him conflicted, trying to latch on to one story or the other, not knowing which one to pick. If he had planned on saying he thought she had left him, now that didn't work because he didn't have time to set the scene to get rid of purses, kid meds, wallet, ID, cell phone, etc. But once he found out about neighbor cameras, he also couldn't now claim she and the girls got picked up and left with anyone. So he just sounded like an idiot stammering about his house the ghost town with a half hearted plea that if someone had them to bring them back. I wonder what his original story was going to be, if LE didn't get involved so fast.

And I wonder what approach he took in his fake multiple text messages he said he sent to Shanann the next day, which would have been sent before he knew he was backed into a wall with his fake stories. Did he try to set a stage in the messages to her? Or if they were just total generic like, "Are you up?" And how his defense attorney will explain any sweet concerned messages to the woman who just you know, strangled his children.

Great points! I think going off of what we know he told her friend by phone before she called the police might be our only clue for now. He might not have texted anything yet until after she showed up. If he did beforehand, it could have either been routine (don't forget to...) or setting up the separation...like if you are serious about leaving, please tell me where you are going, etc. Will be interesting to see.

 

[MerryB]

Shanann's mom, brother and a friend are in CO today per AB.

IMO the state would want to meet with SW’s family first to discuss the autopsy findings & how to proceed. Now, that may not have happened since they’ve asked for a forensic pathologist’s input, but the original deadline for discovery was today. JMO

 

[FlossyMay]

IMO the state would want to meet with SW’s family first to discuss the autopsy findings & how to proceed. Now, that may not have happened since they’ve asked for a forensic pathologist’s input, but the original deadline for discovery was today. JMO

So you think they want to meet with her family to tell them that the evidence shows she killed the girls and to discuss dropping their murder charges and changing to a lesser charge for SW's murder?

 

[PommyMommy]

SBM. I agree. There is something in that autopsy that has caused the state to seek the additional analysis of a forensic pathologist. IMO we may need to start stretching now to get a bit more flexible with our thinking. JMO

Perhaps they've never had to deal with the examination of 3 and 4-year-old little girls who were stuffed into crude oil tanks before. I would be willing to bet that nobody in Weld County has ever dealt with that particular kind of atrocity.
MOO

 

[CFlo]

Weld District Attorney Michael Rourke said he does not yet have the autopsy reports for Shanann Watts, 34, and her two daughters, Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3.
Weld DA Michael Rourke says he has not received autopsy reports in Christopher Watts case

The Weld County Coroner's Office has also confirmed that the reports are not yet available.
Autopsy reports in Watts case not available, prosecution says

Is there such a thing as prelim results? Hence the ask for full hand/palm prints?

 

[Jennifer17]

So you think they want to meet with her family to tell them that the evidence shows she killed the girls and to discuss dropping their murder charges and changing to a lesser charge for SW's murder?

When in fact, they are probably going to pick up some stuff of hers and her girls.

 

[CFlo]

So you think they want to meet with her family to tell them that the evidence shows she killed the girls and to discuss dropping their murder charges and changing to a lesser charge for SW's murder?

Procecution wouldn’t lie to say they don’t have the final results though. IMO, if that were the case, that would be included in their response and probably be granted for a short said period of time (I.e., 24-48 hrs) for family (both families) notification?
Prosc stated, as quoted in previous posts (last few or so pages), they did not have them. @PommyMommy procided this detail already.

 

[PommyMommy]

Is there such a thing as prelim results? Hence the ask for full hand/palm prints?

Preliminary results, yes until all other testing is completed.

Here is an example: The Knox County Sheriff's Office says external and internal examinations did not reveal any contributors to the child's death. The medical examiner is still awaiting toxicology tests and pathology results.

Autopsy results so far inconclusive about baby's death at Knox County home daycare

 

[cailleach]

That's a keeper, thanks!


BBM
Bingo.



Oh to be a fly on the wall if LE ever questioned him about that insinuation. So...someone jumped over the fence 6 times (3 round trips) and carried 3 people out of the house through a door that was locked from the inside? As stupid as that sounds, the story he eventually told is almost as ridiculous.
MOO

@cailleach HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Wishing you a beautiful day!

Thank you, @PommyMommy!!

 

[DexterMorgan]

SBM. I agree. There is something in that autopsy that has caused the state to seek the additional analysis of a forensic pathologist. IMO we may need to start stretching now to get a bit more flexible with our thinking. JMO

You do realize that a case of this magnitude will have experts try and dispute certain findings in the M.E report.

So of course they want to take time to dot i's and cross t's before passing the final report along to the state prosecutors. Jmo.

 

[CFlo]

IMO the state would want to meet with SW’s family first to discuss the autopsy findings & how to proceed. Now, that may not have happened since they’ve asked for a forensic pathologist’s input, but the original deadline for discovery was today. JMO

Hi <modsnip - unnecessary to tag the poster being quoted>,
Do we know yet publicly if the home has been released, or perhaps articles within it, to the family?
I know previously posts in this forum suggest that the home might not be “crime scene” released” until during or after trial, which IMO would be a good thing to ensure a fair trial for everyone.
But perhaps articles/items (I.e. family memory albums, toys, etc) for family and friends to have, as long as it doesn’t hinder or help either side?
Genuine question as I’ve only followed a few cases and it spans over a decade and not in tune as most of you more seasoned WS’.