IL IL - Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, 2 Feb 2008

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I've lived my whole life 3 miles from where Lane Bryant was located and drive past that shopping center weekly. I've heard tidbits (task force alternates people for fresh eyes, camera footage of one of the victims in Taco Bell drive-thru prior to entering Lane Bryant) but nothing earth shattering. TPTB are likely as stumped as we are.

I've never seen someone with that hairstyle matching that description in the area. Doubt anyone has - otherwise the perp would've been caught.

The shopping center is located right off I-80 and near I-57.
(1) If the perp exited left onto 191st, he would've had one more stoplight before entering the interstate off Harlem and likely chose 80E, 57N, or 57S from there.
(2) If the perp exited right, he could've driven 191st to LaGrange and turned right for I-80 or quickly turned right at 76th before two more rights on 183rd and Harlem onto I-80.
(3) Perp exits left onto 191st, turns right on Harlem, left on Vollmer, before hitting I-57 in 2-3 minutes.
The first method is quickest but riskiest with the Harlem/191st stoplight and being seen. I'd imagine police cars drove right past him while he waited in the LT lane.
The second method is slower but most risk-adverse, particularly if he used the non-busy 76th Ave.


It is highly unlikely the perp was local to Mokena/Frankfort/Tinley. Interstate accessibility makes the store more target-able for an out of town criminal.

It is absolutely stunning this case never ends up on 48 or any crime show. Almost like LE *avoids* giving attention to this case when, given the VERY distinct hairstyle, mass marketing is probably the best route to solving it.

You also wonder if the perp is long deceased. The way the crime was carried out was disorganized and chaotic. The perp was a trainwreck. It's simply unfathomable he never committed another crime. Frankly, from his perspective, it's a miracle he was never caught. This is solved 99 times out of 100.

Going back to this post, I've been wondering if it is at all logical or possible that the killer took a right off of Marketplace, then took an immediate right on 76th. I'm wondering this because, it was reported that police searched at least one (possibly more?) nearby pond. According to this current google map, there are multiple ponds along 76th Avenue (photo below).

The thing is though, 76th Avenue is a dead end -- at least today. I'm not sure if it was a dead end back in 2008 -- it almost seems like that green line (which I think signifies a bike path?) could have been a road at one time, but I have no idea. There is a house of some sort at the end that I always see when I travel on I-80 East, but it is abandoned -- I wonder if it was abandoned in 2008.

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏
 
Going back to this post, I've been wondering if it is at all logical or possible that the killer took a right off of Marketplace, then took an immediate right on 76th. I'm wondering this because, it was reported that police searched at least one (possibly more?) nearby pond. According to this current google map, there are multiple ponds along 76th Avenue (photo below).

The thing is though, 76th Avenue is a dead end -- at least today. I'm not sure if it was a dead end back in 2008 -- it almost seems like that green line (which I think signifies a bike path?) could have been a road at one time, but I have no idea. There is a house of some sort at the end that I always see when I travel on I-80 East, but it is abandoned -- I wonder if it was abandoned in 2008.

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

It’s like a maze back on some of those roads between 191 and 80! If he turned down the wrong one in a panic I bet he did freak out. I have no clue what the area was like in 2008 though. I moved in 2014. The house is probably the old farm house of whoever sold out to commercial development. That would be my guess.

Seems like they were doing a grid search. There are a lot of ponds around. There’s even one in that shopping center.
https://cms6.revize.com/revize/tinl...nt Homicide Investigation/Lane_Bryant0209.PDF
 
I think it could have just set off her hinky meter since it was a Saturday. We got shipments on the weekdays when we weren’t expected to be busy. Idk, I think he was believable enough to get her to the point of calling.
That’s why I don’t think he was there just to rob the store.
 
I agree with having an ulterior motive. If just there to rob it, wouldn't you want to get in and out as quickly as possible? I don't understand spending that much time and going through the farce of a delivery if that's all you wanted. I still wonder if one of his accomplices (if he had them) wanted to target someone in that store and he went in instead because the other person would have been recognized by the target.

Although I initially thought he did not necessarily intend to murder everyone but panicked when she called 911, he also showed his face. Would he really plan to do all of this and leave a bunch of living witnesses that could report on him? Now, having said that, even having a sketch, he has not been found yet, so it obviously (so far) worked out for him. But would that be any criminal's preferred plan? So does that mean he DID intend to commit murder from the get go, just maybe not as soon as he did due to the 911 call? I shudder to think what else he had planned for them if that's the case.
 
Personally I believe he did intend to commit murder due to not covering his face. I guess we will never know his true intention unless they catch him. The Yo from the killer I think was when he discovered the call was made. You can hear that on both versions of the 911 call that were released. The delivery and the lag time between him making entry and pulling his gun was in my opinion him scoping out the store to make certain there was no camera anywhere in the store. I think he figured if there was a camera he would just say "my bad" and leave the store with no one any wiser to what his intention was. He, or they, probably scoped out the exterior before going in to make sure there were no cameras within range that could identify them or the vehicles.
 
I agree with having an ulterior motive. If just there to rob it, wouldn't you want to get in and out as quickly as possible? I don't understand spending that much time and going through the farce of a delivery if that's all you wanted. I still wonder if one of his accomplices (if he had them) wanted to target someone in that store and he went in instead because the other person would have been recognized by the target.

Although I initially thought he did not necessarily intend to murder everyone but panicked when she called 911, he also showed his face. Would he really plan to do all of this and leave a bunch of living witnesses that could report on him? Now, having said that, even having a sketch, he has not been found yet, so it obviously (so far) worked out for him. But would that be any criminal's preferred plan? So does that mean he DID intend to commit murder from the get go, just maybe not as soon as he did due to the 911 call? I shudder to think what else he had planned for them if that's the case.
Any robbery I’ve heard of is fast. The less time it takes, the less chance something will go wrong. He didn’t feel that urgency because he had people outside. I hate typing I think he meant to kill everyone in that store, but I do. It was a slow morning and I think he got antsy waiting on his accomplice to walk in with more customers so he left the back room to check the parking lot and cut it short when he got back inside.
 
It’s like a maze back on some of those roads between 191 and 80! If he turned down the wrong one in a panic I bet he did freak out. I have no clue what the area was like in 2008 though. I moved in 2014. The house is probably the old farm house of whoever sold out to commercial development. That would be my guess.

Seems like they were doing a grid search. There are a lot of ponds around. There’s even one in that shopping center.
https://cms6.revize.com/revize/tinleypark/document_center/Police Department/Lane Bryant Homicide Investigation/Lane_Bryant0209.PDF

I took I-80 East last night and I could swear there's a road that winds around that old farmhouse. I could be wrong of course, as it was difficult to look and drive at the same time, but that was my first impression anyway -- I will need to take a second look, if not more. There are like 3 or 4 pillars at the end of 76th avenue, essentially making it a dead end, but again -- I could've sworn I saw the road continuing and winding around the house. There is snow on the ground now, but you can still see it (the outline in the terrain). If I get brave enough, I want to pull onto the shoulder and see -- you can clearly see the farmhouse and its surroundings right from I-80.

The road seems to go from 76th Avenue to Panduit, which is a huge office building, but it seems like a newer building; so I wonder if it was there in 2008. I'll try to do some research today if work allows.

You're right -- there are ponds all over the place in this area -- Frankfort, Mokena, etc. I have to imagine that those ponds right off of 76th, in addition to the parking lot pond, were all searched, as the document you attached specifies that multiple ponds were searched.
 
I think there is a video clip or a news article where one of the investigators states that his intention was to rob people as they enter the store if I remember correctly. I’m not sure if that’s a theory of theirs or a fact (Martha could have overheard something).
Also I’ve noticed a lot of the criminals around here don’t cover their faces and don’t seem too concerned about cameras.
 
I took I-80 East last night and I could swear there's a road that winds around that old farmhouse. I could be wrong of course, as it was difficult to look and drive at the same time, but that was my first impression anyway -- I will need to take a second look, if not more. There are like 3 or 4 pillars at the end of 76th avenue, essentially making it a dead end, but again -- I could've sworn I saw the road continuing and winding around the house. There is snow on the ground now, but you can still see it (the outline in the terrain). If I get brave enough, I want to pull onto the shoulder and see -- you can clearly see the farmhouse and its surroundings right from I-80.

The road seems to go from 76th Avenue to Panduit, which is a huge office building, but it seems like a newer building; so I wonder if it was there in 2008. I'll try to do some research today if work allows.

You're right -- there are ponds all over the place in this area -- Frankfort, Mokena, etc. I have to imagine that those ponds right off of 76th, in addition to the parking lot pond, were all searched, as the document you attached specifies that multiple ponds were searched.
2010 is when they moved into it according to this.
Tinley Park says home builder eyeing Panduit site

Looks like they started planning it in 2007.
PANDUIT to Build New Worldwide Corporate Headquarters in Tinley Park
 
I think there is a video clip or a news article where one of the investigators states that his intention was to rob people as they enter the store if I remember correctly. I’m not sure if that’s a theory of theirs or a fact (Martha could have overheard something).
Also I’ve noticed a lot of the criminals around here don’t cover their faces and don’t seem too concerned about cameras.

Yes, just like the killer -- he was brazen enough to show his face, etc. Their are a lot of burglaries and robberies with video of the people not wearing any type of mask.

One thing I wanted to mention: the company I work for used to hire this cleaning crew to clean our building. We had this crew for the majority of time I was at the company. Many of my co-workers would discover their earbuds stolen from their desks; some had small personal items taken from unlocked cube drawers. I'm sure some people reported it, but it was never really followed up -- there's not much HR can do if the crew simply denies it. Then one day a co-worker left his car overnight in the parking lot, and when we arrived at work the next morning, the car was on cinder blocks and the tires were missing. When my company expanded to a second office in the area almost a year later, yet another car was on cinder blocks in the second-office's parking lot -- which was proof enough that our cleaning crew was involved. Finally, that was enough for my company to fire the cleaning crew; and it was discovered that, one of the crew members had actually been using our delivery van to commit other crimes around the area.

My point is, this made me think about the LB killer. He must have had at least some familiarity with the area -- just like my company's cleaning crew. None of them were from the immediate area, they were from the city. And simply because the killer was driving a black suv, doesn't mean it belonged to the killer -- or that is was even, technically, "stolen" at the time. He could have simply had easy access to it. Obvious points, but nevertheless.

Different ways the killer could be connected to the area (add if you have more):

Delivery driver (Fed-Ex, UPS, etc.)
Construction worker (for that particular strip mall)
Cleaning crew of a nearby office/establishment
Security (of a nearby establishment)
 
Evidently, that abandoned building was part of a 9-hole golf course (Graystone Golf Course). You can see a part of the road that curves around in the below photo, but I can't tell if that's a bonafide road or where it leads to (the photos are too grainy). Either way, when that golf course was open, those pillars that are now in the middle of that road (76th) weren't there, obviously.

2008: خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

In 2016, the "No Outlet" sign at 76th isn't there yet (there are road closed signs in the middle of the road at the time, but the No Outlet sign was planted after 2016):

August 2016: خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

November 2018 (No Outlet now there):
خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏
 
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Eerie -- look at the "G" sign at the top of the old Graystone Golf Course's building.....it made me think of the "G" in the killer's jeans. Not necessarily saying there's a connection, but it's yet another eerie connection.

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏
 
Yes, just like the killer -- he was brazen enough to show his face, etc. Their are a lot of burglaries and robberies with video of the people not wearing any type of mask.

One thing I wanted to mention: the company I work for used to hire this cleaning crew to clean our building. We had this crew for the majority of time I was at the company. Many of my co-workers would discover their earbuds stolen from their desks; some had small personal items taken from unlocked cube drawers. I'm sure some people reported it, but it was never really followed up -- there's not much HR can do if the crew simply denies it. Then one day a co-worker left his car overnight in the parking lot, and when we arrived at work the next morning, the car was on cinder blocks and the tires were missing. When my company expanded to a second office in the area almost a year later, yet another car was on cinder blocks in the second-office's parking lot -- which was proof enough that our cleaning crew was involved. Finally, that was enough for my company to fire the cleaning crew; and it was discovered that, one of the crew members had actually been using our delivery van to commit other crimes around the area.

My point is, this made me think about the LB killer. He must have had at least some familiarity with the area -- just like my company's cleaning crew. None of them were from the immediate area, they were from the city. And simply because the killer was driving a black suv, doesn't mean it belonged to the killer -- or that is was even, technically, "stolen" at the time. He could have simply had easy access to it. Obvious points, but nevertheless.

Different ways the killer could be connected to the area (add if you have more):

Delivery driver (Fed-Ex, UPS, etc.)
Construction worker (for that particular strip mall)
Cleaning crew of a nearby office/establishment
Security (of a nearby establishment)
I like your list. It reminds me of a job I had through a temp agency putting together an Eddie Bauer store in an open air mall. For about two weeks I drove 40+ miles (further for some people) one way, to work on a team of about 25-30 people. We assembled and placed fixtures, set up the break room, etc., under the direction of managers from Eddie Bauer stores in the area and around the state. Everyone interacted and personalities clashed. Some people got job offers and the temp agency asked some workers not to come back. Anyone with this kind of a job would’ve known the layout well and had contact with store managers. I guess this fits in the construction worker category.
 
Different ways the killer could be connected to the area (add if you have more):

Delivery driver (Fed-Ex, UPS, etc.)
Construction worker (for that particular strip mall)
Cleaning crew of a nearby office/establishment
Security (of a nearby establishment)

Retail worker
Friend or family member of someone connected
Customer
Seasonal employee (for Christmas)
Landscape/ Snow removal crew
 
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Eerie -- look at the "G" sign at the top of the old Graystone Golf Course's building.....it made me think of the "G" in the killer's jeans. Not necessarily saying there's a connection, but it's yet another eerie connection.

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏
I never knew there was a golf course there until now.

I think he jeans were G Unit brand.
 
So I've listened/read a lot of reports recently, and (like usual) it's hard to distinguish what is fact and what is fiction on the case. For example:

Was there really a baseball cap found at the scene?

And a coffee cup?

Both of which supposedly belong to the killer. The baseball cap would be just strange, considering he was identified by the survivor as wearing a more winter-like cap. So why did he have two types of caps? Was the baseball cap (they say "baseball," but only to refer to the style of cap) part of his initial ruse as a delivery man? And did he bring in the coffee, or did he get the coffee in the Lane Bryant (in the half hour or so before the robbery began, while he waited for the manager to check out his "delivery")?

Another thing that's curious is, how did the survivor know that the killer's hair was receding if he had the winter-cap on? I suppose it's possible that the killer kept taking off his hat and putting it back on -- that would be a sign of panic (like when a person constantly runs their fingers through their hair, etc.).
 
Sorry if I'm posting too much here -- just have a lot of thoughts I want to share before I lose them.

The phone call:

At first, I really didn't understand this at all, with regard to the multiple versions. On one version, you hear music and the conversation between the police operator and the store manager. Then you literally hear the call drop -- that's where this particular snippet ends. I found this weird obviously because, there is another prolonged snippet released of the killer's voice speaking to the victim(s), that wasn't on the original shorter snippet -- so how was this audio attained, if the call was ended immediately after the store manager said "I won't (hang up)," to the operator?

When I owned a flip-phone (one of the last hold-outs to get a smart phone), I had a blue-tooth. I would use it while driving. This was literally 10 years ago, but if I remember right, when I wanted to dial-out while using a blue-tooth, I still had to use my cell-phone to dial -- as a blue-tooth doesn't have a keypad obviously.

So I feel like, when the initial call gets dropped, that was the killer grabbing and hanging up the store manager's cell phone -- but he didn't realize the call was still active on her blue-tooth device in her ear. That's how the extra audio was captured.

Normally, after you dial the number from the cell phone, you simply "hang up" the cell phone, as the blue tooth takes over the connected call -- but perhaps RF (the store manager) was scared to hang up the cell phone. After all, the operator just told her to not hang up. Maybe RF thought that if she did hang up the cell phone, she would get disconnected from the call, even though it was on her blue tooth?

Or maybe RF thought that the call could only be traced if her cell phone was still "carrying" the call? After all, she had only given the operator the town that the store was in, but not the actual address.

Either way, this is my best guess as to why we hear the call go dead initially; before the prolonged audio of the killer that was released after the call went dead.
 
As for the baseball cap, I do not remember reading anything about a ball cap. The coffee cup only came up in a recent podcast. There is much speculation about DNA evidence and if there was any left behind, and a coffee cup would certainly contain DNA, but I don't know if he really did leave one behind as I have not heard it from a LEO.

Martha (the survivor) greeted the killer at the door so she got a really good look at him. She was probably the person he was talking to for the few minutes RM was on the phone with other stores. She was in the best position to identify all of his features.

The calls were strange to me as well. I think the first one was like you said, a snippet of the entire call. The call actually lasted about 37 seconds and when they play it out for the whole time with the killer's voice you can tell there was back and forth with the victims and possibly accomplices. I didn't think of the Bluetooth thing. He probably hung the phone up and thought it was off and didn't realize it was still communicating.
 
I always assumed the first call was just a short clip the police gave the media. I’ll go back and listen.

I’ve never heard anything about a baseball cap. If I remember correctly he left his beanie. He must have taken it off before he blindfolded Martha, and she saw him with and without it.
 

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