UID Victim: The Female Toddler, UP9704, found Gilgo Beach Apr 2011

DNA Solves
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DNA Solves
New here, I have been following the beach on podcast and killing season. I apologize if this has been asked. Was any DNA ever found on the toddler that was found? It seems as if you would have to do a lot of hands on with a toddler who was screaming or crying . If there was any found has it been ran through a current 2019 felony DNA data base. All convicted felons have to give blood to be kept on file. Thanks. And does the case from PA SUITCASE JANE Doe belong to the Gilgo Beach killing. Seems very similar.
 
I agree, it seems like the child (just like the mother) was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Since they've never released a cause of death on the child I keep going back to her being smothered. Once the body had decomposed, smothering wouldn't leave a trace to be able to determine the cause of death.

What trips me up (and I don't want to get too deep in this discussion in this thread as it may belong elsewhere) is the child being so neatly and cleanly preserved like the first four girls, while the mother was potentially one of the girls that were dismembered. These are two completely different personalities that derive pleasure in completely different ways, so it would be odd to have someone kill by both methods. Even if someone wouldn't dismember a toddler, it would be strange for them to take the time to wrap and the body instead of just tossing it or putting it in a tub.

Oh - and I remembered one other big lightbulb that turned on for me that may explain the death of the child as well as why some care seems to have been taken in how she was disposed. The question about why the child was killed kept nagging at me and wouldn't leave me alone, but earlier today it finally hit me. As has been speculated many times before, I really, really, really think this child knew the killer on a first name basis, for whatever reason (insert your own speculation - related, party house, friends, etc.), but the reason this would matter so much to the killer is since the child was old enough to be talking there's a really good chance she would be able to say the name of the person that killed her mother. Plus, after killing the mother this person couldn't very well suddenly have a kid - especially if the mother and the child were known acquaintances of the killer.


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I have a theory on this. Size. I think LISK began killing women of usual size. But he had some kind of problem which meant that he could not move the bodies in one piece to hide them. He couldn’t manage to dispose of them in one piece alone. I think the cutting up was a necessity for him to dispose of the bodies, rather than the bit he got the thrill from. Obviously that would have made a huge mess to clean, had lots of potential to leave forensic evidence behind and made the remains more risky to transport (smell, leakage) and travelling to multiple locations over a longer distance also would have increased the risk of police stops etc.

I think the toddler is why his MO changed. He took her in one piece to the beach, probably in some sort of bag or using the blanket as a sling carrier of sorts. I think after he’d done it he thought how much easier it was not to dismember. No cleaning. No hard physical work butchering. Less driving. Easier to cleanse the bodies of forensic evidence.

So I think after that, his MO was to find small, light women of less than 100lb. Use burlap sacks as slings to carry them. I think that’s how and why his MO changed for the final 4.

Regarding Peaches. I remember in the Fred and Rose West case many early victims were partners and family members. If he knew Peaches well, if she was his partner, he may well have known that regardless of the tattoo nobody would come looking for her or recognise it. Maybe a recent migrant from a poor country lacking communications. That could be why he didn’t bother removing it as he had with others.

LISK could have been her father. But also, going back to the West case, he could have been a stepfather in her life who chose to keep the child around to be abused and exploited like West did to his Stepdaughter Charmaine. But then when she became too much of a hassle or nuisance and a block to their offending Charmaine was murdered, possibly by Rose alone. Fred West also killed his first wife Rena who was Charmaine’s mother. They never killed any other child as young as Charmaine, who was 8. I wonder if this is similar.

Someone mentioned Brewer having a female child with him for a while but I can’t find any info so if anyone could point me in the right direction for that, I’d appreciate it.

I also think a personal relationship with Peaches is possible because a toddler would not have the language to explain that she had seen her mother killed or had gone to a party after which she could have disappeared. She could just have been dumped alive on a street corner. But she could have had enough language to say she had a Dada and police would have started looking for a man alone who had a child with him (possibly not the same race) whose child had suddenly disappeared. I also think it’s interesting the child was killed at an age when her speech would have been developing fast.
Anyway, pure speculation. But that’s my theory.
 
Oh. Forgot one important thing about the size theory. Many serial killers move average sized females alone. LISK seems to have been unable to do that until he moved to small light women carried in burlap sacks.

So obviously he had some kind of issue which limited the size and weight he could move alone....like a prosthetic leg...
 
Tiffany Susan Westford

Tiffany disappeared from Amityville, New York on November 13, 1993. She was abducted by her non-custodial mother, Marie Catherine Dominique. Is there a chance she was not abducted by her mother, but that they both met with foul play? Or perhaps her mother did abduct her, though they met their demise later? Mom previously was a CNA, but if she was wanted for custody interference, she would not be able to get certified. Perhaps she turned towards other means to make ends meet?



One 16" gold colored chain and two gold colored hoop earrings were discovered with the child found at Gilgo Beach. Tiffany had pierced ears and those look like hoops in that picture?

Sorry about photo quality...



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Tiffany Susan Westford – The Charley Project Tiffany

UID

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Article 2011:
The blanketed body of the youngest victim, a girl no older than 32 months, has been connected to another of the victims: a woman whose partial remains were found seven miles to the west near Ocean Parkway on April 11, Suffolk County police officials said Tuesday. They added that it was quite likely that the woman was the toddler’s mother.

The partial remains of another woman, also discovered on April 11 near Jones Beach, matched the DNA of two severed legs found in a black plastic garbage bag on Fire Island nearly 15 years earlier, on April 20, 1996.

A sketch of a woman whose remains were found along Ocean Parkway.Suffolk County Police Department, via Associated Press
And another woman, whose head and hands were found along Ocean Parkway, has been positively linked to remains found in Manorville, about 40 miles to the east.
Pursuing Identities, Police Disclose Details About L.I. Victims (Pub
 
According to Peaches's Wikipedia page as of late 2022 they are getting closer with genetic genealogy to identifying her. I too wonder if Rex Heuermann was responsible for her death and the death of her daughter.
I've heard lots of speculation that peaches + child was murdered by the father. Perhaps a DNA test could be in place to confirm or debunk this speculation?
 
I've heard lots of speculation that peaches + child was murdered by the father. Perhaps a DNA test could be in place to confirm or debunk this speculation?
I think this speculation was born out of people's reluctance to accept that many sex workers used to bring their infants with them while seeing a client.
 
I think this speculation was born out of people's reluctance to accept that many sex workers used to bring their infants with them while seeing a client.
I still wouldn't be too hasty in concluding a background for Peaches and child because backstories of Does are hard to aptly create. Especially when it's not a case where the person was seen alive beforehand
 
I still wouldn't be too hasty in concluding a background for Peaches and child because backstories of Does are hard to aptly create. Especially when it's not a case where the person was seen alive beforehand

Speaking of back stories..
These twins that are reported to be 5 when missing -I do realize ,this is shifty waters but is it posssible the 5 year old- mulitiple at Birth- could appear to be under 32 months to a ME ? Dont shoot me I am only asking and I do not know if any of this families DNA is on file , it strikes me as a mostly likely, they do ,kinda case. On the other hand I cannot count on one hand how one easy , single ,mistake in a missing person case has delayed the resolution of a case so ,I decided why not post. If we are considering everyones back story. IMO..
No sign of Fayetteville family after 15 years
 
Speaking of back stories..
These twins that are reported to be 5 when missing -I do realize ,this is shifty waters but is it posssible the 5 year old- mulitiple at Birth- could appear to be under 32 months to a ME ? Dont shoot me I am only asking and I do not know if any of this families DNA is on file , it strikes me as a mostly likely, they do ,kinda case. On the other hand I cannot count on one hand how one easy , single ,mistake in a missing person case has delayed the resolution of a case so ,I decided why not post. If we are considering everyones back story. IMO..
No sign of Fayetteville family after 15 years
Just the differences to the skull alone between a two year old and a five year old makes this highly unlikely. Toddlers' skeletons change so much in a very short space of time.

MOO
 
Just the differences to the skull alone between a two year old and a five year old makes this highly unlikely. Toddlers' skeletons change so much in a very short space of time.

MOO
32 months would be 4 months short of 3 year s old. If it was not for the fact that these two were twins ,I would not consider it ,premature babies do catch up growth wise and twins are more likely to be premature. the soft spots close at 18 or abouts, months so what age defining markers are they using to confirm age?
One of my loveies was was 6 weeks early and she is 10 now and hits all the markers for a normal 7 to 8 year old.
You probably right and it is unlikely how ever - Really how do they know "under 32 months""
 
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32 months would be 4 months short of 3 year s old. If it was not for the fact that these two were twins ,I would not consider it ,premature babies do catch up growth wise and twins are more likely to be premature. the soft spots close at 18 or abouts, months so what age defining markers are they using to confirm age?
One of my loveies was was 6 weeks early and she is 10 now and hits all the markers for a normal 7 to 8 year old.
You probably right and it is unlikely how ever - Really how do they know "under 32 months""
Teeth and growth plates, I would imagine. Fontanelle closure would be a big one. The kneecaps turning from cartilage to bone would, too, that happens between two and six years of age. Babies have roughly a hundred more bones than adults, and these fuse together and harden on a known timeline.


MOO
 
I still wouldn't be too hasty in concluding a background for Peaches and child because backstories of Does are hard to aptly create. Especially when it's not a case where the person was seen alive beforehand

People said the same thing about Valerie Mack and Karen Vergata while they were Jane Does. Serial killers who target sex workers almost always stick to the same victim type. It's what they feel comfortable with. It's what allows them to compartmentalize their crimes. All of the known victims were sex workers. I also think that a "regular"/"civilian" mother and child going missing would have drawn far more attention.
 
New here, I have been following the beach on podcast and killing season. I apologize if this has been asked. Was any DNA ever found on the toddler that was found? It seems as if you would have to do a lot of hands on with a toddler who was screaming or crying . If there was any found has it been ran through a current 2019 felony DNA data base. All convicted felons have to give blood to be kept on file. Thanks. And does the case from PA SUITCASE JANE Doe belong to the Gilgo Beach killing. Seems very similar.
Welcome
 
Men like RH (Lisk) seem to be suitable for someone, who one day in his past had a certain interest for a SW with a female toddler in tow. Think of his Google searches!
What, if his wife cared for the toddler, after toddler's mum disappeared? Until the toddler disappeared also.
Thoughts only and speculation!
 

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