MD MD - Frederick, WhtFem 17-45, UP7477, in steamer trunk in state park, Spondylolysis, Aug'82

[Reddwarf]

testing

 

[Reddwarf]

DNA in the case can only go so far. Right now Jane Doe can only be ID'd through dental work. There have been no updates on whether or not DNA is attainable; there's even confusion on whether or not her remains have been cremated.

I watched the Georgia Marie video and I see what you're saying. Judy's mother passed away last Sept. However, some siblings are alive, and I have reached out to some for any help or info they might provide.

 

[marsh_melancholy]

I personally contacted Othram back in November 2022 to advocate for DNA testing. The gist is this: they're willing to reach out to the case owner/agency.... However, it takes two to tango... so if the agency doesn't respond or doesn't want to cooperate, Othram can't initiate testing.

 

[Reddwarf]

I personally contacted Othram back in November 2022 to advocate for DNA testing. The gist is this: they're willing to reach out to the case owner/agency.... However, it takes two to tango... so if the agency doesn't respond or doesn't want to cooperate, Othram can't initiate testing.

I was new and didn't realize I need source for links on pics. My bad for not reading close enough. They've deleted most of my posts regarding the teeth. Not sure I can go through that again. I have some business that needs to be taken care of. I'll reach out to agencies Monday regarding what I found. Thanks for all of you help and input.

 

[Reddwarf]

I personally contacted Othram back in November 2022 to advocate for DNA testing. The gist is this: they're willing to reach out to the case owner/agency.... However, it takes two to tango... so if the agency doesn't respond or doesn't want to cooperate, Othram can't initiate testing.

I contacted Frederick Police and they are very interested. A detective is suppose to call me back this week. Maybe we can get the ball rolling again on the DNA or at least pursue Judith's dental. Some of her siblings are still alive and may have info.

 

[Reddwarf]

Frederick Trunk Doe	Judith Anne Brown
Died by 1979 possibly a year or so earlier	Disappeared in 1977
At 17 to 27. Probably in early twenties	19 when she Disappeared
Slender frame but with wider hips	Slender frame but with wider hips
Shoulder length brown hair with slight wave	Shoulder length brown hair with slight wave
Some red in hair (probable recessive gene)	Father had sandy reddish hair (British ancestry)
Skull indicates old American ancestry	Father's ancestors were old Americans
Petite frame might indicate Latin descent	Mother was petite and of Italian descent
Had tooth on inside of bottom row	Had tooth on inside of bottom row
In general problem teeth. Overbite	In general problem teeth. Overbite
Height estimates 5' 4"	Height per family 5' 4"
Weight 100 to 130 Pounds	Weight per family 125 Pounds
Probably not from Maryland	Not from Maryland
Probably not from very far away though	New York City is 4 hours from the Park
Wear on pelvis due to lifting and bending	As a teen, took care of 5 younger siblings and invalid father. Mother worked
May have had a bend in nose	Has a bend in nose
Probably from middle class family	From middle class family

 

[EmiliaRT007]

Frederick Trunk Doe	Judith Anne Brown
Died by 1979 possibly a year or so earlier	Disappeared in 1977
At 17 to 27. Probably in early twenties	19 when she Disappeared
Slender frame but with wider hips	Slender frame but with wider hips
Shoulder length brown hair with slight wave	Shoulder length brown hair with slight wave
Some red in hair (probable recessive gene)	Father had sandy reddish hair (British ancestry)
Skull indicates old American ancestry	Father's ancestors were old Americans
Petite frame might indicate Latin descent	Mother was petite and of Italian descent
Had tooth on inside of bottom row	Had tooth on inside of bottom row
In general problem teeth. Overbite	In general problem teeth. Overbite
Height estimates 5' 4"	Height per family 5' 4"
Weight 100 to 130 Pounds	Weight per family 125 Pounds
Probably not from Maryland	Not from Maryland
Probably not from very far away though	New York City is 4 hours from the Park
Wear on pelvis due to lifting and bending	As a teen, took care of 5 younger siblings and invalid father. Mother worked
May have had a bend in nose	Has a bend in nose
Probably from middle class family	From middle class family

I have a pretty good feeling it’s her.

 

[Reddwarf]

I have a pretty good feeling it’s her.

Reposting from Judy Brown forum:
Here's another comparison to one of her most recent photos at the time. Sorry but SIlver fim in the 70's was not very good and her pics always seem washed out.

Links are
https:///wiki/Cheerleader_in_the_Trunk
Judith Brown – April 6, 1977 – Queens, NY -

 

[carbuff]

The tooth thing is a big similarity.

 

[EmiliaRT007]

 

[HmmMysterious]

View attachment 484354

Judith seems to have larger gaps between her teeth than CITT does imo

 

[EmiliaRT007]

Judith seems to have larger gaps between her teeth than CITT does imo

Yeah, but other than that I think there are a lot of similarities; it’s hard to tell because Judith’s picture has the light shining on her and CITT’s facing the front completely, and all her teeth are visible as her skull is shown.

 

[Reddwarf]

Yeah, but other than that I think there are a lot of similarities; it’s hard to tell because Judith’s picture has the light shining on her and CITT’s facing the front completely, and all her teeth are visible as her skull is shown.

Yeah, but other than that I think there are a lot of similarities; it’s hard to tell because Judith’s picture has the light shining on her and CITT’s facing the front completely, and all her teeth are visible as her skull is shown.

There are some spacers in the skull. Down view photo of teeth shows 3 of the front 4 large incisors are missing. To me the teeth look just alike and bear in mind the gums have dried up to.

Link: https:///wiki/Unidentified_Wiki?file=Cheerleader_in_the_Trunk_dentals.jpg

 

[Reddwarf]

Yeah, but other than that I think there are a lot of similarities; it’s hard to tell because Judith’s picture has the light shining on her and CITT’s facing the front completely, and all her teeth are visible as her skull is shown.

The impacted canine tooth is a one in 50 occurrence. This eliminates 98% of the population. Authorities really need to pursue this. Judith has multiple siblings alive but they won't live forever. They might have knowledge of her dental history or if Judy went to Dental colleges for care. New York City has at least 8 that I know of.

 

[Reddwarf]

Judith seems to have larger gaps between her teeth than CITT does imo

Yet on this closeup, the spaces between the teeth are huge on the skull.

Link: https:///wiki/Unidentified_Wiki?file=Cheerleader_in_the_Trunk_dentals.jpg

 

[marsh_melancholy]

Also keep in mind that the front-facing photo of The Cheerleader's teeth isn't accurate; one of her upper teeth, and the one right below it, fell out post-mortem.... the reconstruction Carl Koppelman did involved him "replacing" her teeth.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

*Regrettably he can find no definate cause of death. "The styloid process (pointed extensions which hold the jaw in place below the skull) are broken. That suggested strangulation but they could have been broken post-mortem." he observes. "The thoractic vertebrae "The bones holding the head upright) is darker than the rest. That usually means it has been stained with blood. This could also mean strangulation, but then again, it also could have happened after she died."

Respectfully, SBMFF.

Hello, medical information nerd here.

The thoracic vertebrae do not hold the head upright. That would be the C2 (cervical vertebrae 2). The cervical vertebrae hold the neck/head up/stabilized.

The thoracic region of the spine, aka the rib cage keeps the heart and lungs protected. Built for stability and helps keep you upright. moo ymmv

Also, I have much more to say as grew up and lived quite close to Frederick (for like 35 years-ish) but I’m going to keep reading before I post again.

 

[Reddwarf]

Also keep in mind that the front-facing photo of The Cheerleader's teeth isn't accurate; one of her upper teeth, and the one right below it, fell out post-mortem.... the reconstruction Carl Koppelman did involved him "replacing" her teeth.

Are forensic findings available other than quotations or mentions on webshows? I couldn't find anything.

 

[summergirl1]

That reminds me, I read a post about Cheerleader made by a member of our Othram Facebook group.

Someone else commented that they spoke to the detective in charge who said the state LOST the remains years ago. The NCMEC only extracted DNA from the trunk and were able to get a profile, but it was very degraded.

Maybe someday the DNA technology will be there to do something with DNA as regards this Jane Doe's identification. But I'm not sure even if there were no other obstacles, that technology can do anything with the DNA there is today?

 

[summergirl1]

Maryland has dna laws that are not helping solve any cold cases, and logistics haven't been worked out since the law was passed. See below.

Many departments also are only allowed to use state, internal, or Bode for processing dna. Frederick also does not have a cold case unit, which is why this case, and others like Tracey Kirkpatrick (which could easily be solved with dna) have not been solved yet. Maryland Cold Cases is working on doing some protests about this.

Maryland Quietly Shelves Parts Of Genealogy Privacy Law

A WMAR-2 News investigation has learned the Maryland Department of Health quietly stopped implementing key parts of a landmark privacy law meant to protect ancestry data online.

www.wmar2news.com

More on Maryland and the genetic genealogy law-I couldn't seem to find any more updated info. What’s Next for Forensic Genetic Genotyping in Maryland?