Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #5 *Arrests*

[charmingbetsy]

Something I thought was interesting was that from the list of phone pings in the PCA, it looks like the 4 went back to TC's property before going to Beasley's. Did anyone else think that?

9:40 a.m. -- VB and JK reach area where car is found.

9:42 a.m. -- VB and JK phones stop pinging at the site where the car was found. All three burners are pinging here at this time.

10:05-10:16 a.m. -- Twombly-9085 and Cullum-5752 are at/near Cullum property.

10:16-10:35 a.m. -- Twombly-9085 and Cullum-5752 are at/near Beasley property.

 

[Megnut]

Something I thought was interesting was that from the list of phone pings in the PCA, it looks like the 4 went back to TC's property before going to Beasley's. Did anyone else think that?

9:40 a.m. -- VB and JK reach area where car is found.

9:42 a.m. -- VB and JK phones stop pinging at the site where the car was found. All three burners are pinging here at this time.

10:05-10:16 a.m. -- Twombly-9085 and Cullum-5752 are at/near Cullum property.

10:16-10:35 a.m. -- Twombly-9085 and Cullum-5752 are at/near Beasley property.

I count two. Where are you seeing four?

 

[charmingbetsy]

I count two. Where are you seeing four?

Well, it's an assumption. There were only 3 burner phones. And I think there were some holes in the PCA as to where the third burner phone went after it was at the scene of the crime. Nevertheless, two of the phones went back to TC's before going to Beasley's.

 

[Error505]

@otto posted one map and someone else posted one slightly different. My general impression was the victims were blocked from proceeding south on 95 and forced to turn west on Road L. Did you see that big animal hauling trailer that the cops confiscated? It belongs to Tad. I had a feeling it could have been that that they used to block the road because it's really long. I don't believe authorities have provided a map with exact locations, yet, and everyone is going from the written reports. I'm not certain, though. I, too, would like to see a map with all of the perps home locations, where the car was blocked and where it was found and where the burial site is so we can get an idea of distances. One thing that astounded me was that we know the attack, then murders and burial all took place in just a couple of hours because CW said Cora and Cole got home around noon.

This map is pretty accurate. It gives a good indication of the close proximity of those involved. This wasn’t made by me, but was shared on fb or X, can’t remember.
MOO

 

[CuriousCricket]

Something I thought was interesting was that from the list of phone pings in the PCA, it looks like the 4 went back to TC's property before going to Beasley's. Did anyone else think that?

9:40 a.m. -- VB and JK reach area where car is found.

9:42 a.m. -- VB and JK phones stop pinging at the site where the car was found. All three burners are pinging here at this time.

10:05-10:16 a.m. -- Twombly-9085 and Cullum-5752 are at/near Cullum property.

10:16-10:35 a.m. -- Twombly-9085 and Cullum-5752 are at/near Beasley property.

Yes, I saw that. Two of the 3 burner phones went to the Cullum Property and appear to have traveled together to the burial place at Beasley's property.

What I have not been able to figure out is that when the group was going to Cullum's place, a lone burner phone went to the Twombly property. HOWEVER, according to Cora's daughter, Cole and Cora returned at the same time driving the same vehicles they had taken -- Chevy PU and flatbed around noon. So, who was it who carried one of the three burner phones to the Twomley place and eventually shut it down there -- about the same time the phones shut down at Beasley's property -- IIRC.

 

[ClearAhead]

Something I thought was interesting was that from the list of phone pings in the PCA, it looks like the 4 went back to TC's property before going to Beasley's. Did anyone else think that?

9:40 a.m. -- VB and JK reach area where car is found.

9:42 a.m. -- VB and JK phones stop pinging at the site where the car was found. All three burners are pinging here at this time.

10:05-10:16 a.m. -- Twombly-9085 and Cullum-5752 are at/near Cullum property.

10:16-10:35 a.m. -- Twombly-9085 and Cullum-5752 are at/near Beasley property.

Within 2 minutes VBs and JKs cellphones are no longer pinging. This attack was very quick, unfortunately it appears victims were unable to call 911. At first, after they were detoured off the highway it must’ve taken a few moments to figure out what was happening before realizing they were facing deadly danger. Perhaps they tried calling 911 and that’s when the side window got broken with the hammer, stun guns started flaring, one or both victims made a desperate attempt to flee, cellphones were dropped and grabbed by perps and smashed, hammer breaks.

Truth be known, I’d sooner be shot dead with a gun than incapacitated with the electric shock of a stun gun. The level of cruelty inflicted had to be absolutely horrendous and we don’t yet know what the autopsy revealed including COD. I can’t begin to imagine how diabolical not just one, nor two, but FOUR people must be to plot an attack on two woman such as this. Then , later CT casually tells her daughter it didn’t quite go as planned?!! She’s just as evil if not more than TA, she had no personal stake in the motive.

JMO

 

[JulesinOz]

Something I thought was interesting was that from the list of phone pings in the PCA, it looks like the 4 went back to TC's property before going to Beasley's. Did anyone else think that?

9:40 a.m. -- VB and JK reach area where car is found.

9:42 a.m. -- VB and JK phones stop pinging at the site where the car was found. All three burners are pinging here at this time.

10:05-10:16 a.m. -- Twombly-9085 and Cullum-5752 are at/near Cullum property.

10:16-10:35 a.m. -- Twombly-9085 and Cullum-5752 are at/near Beasley property.

Wow. 2 minutes from the time they arrived until their phones stopped signaling. Anybody know—if they were holding their phones would a stun gun charge disable the phones?

 

[Cryptic]

I'm incredulous that the Sheriff's statement "never saw anything in the visitation exchanges that caused him concern" was considered as a reason to cease supervised exchange of custody. OF COURSE HE DIDN'T. What on earth was Wrangler going to do in his presence that would cause concern? This is the very reason exchanges are made in this manner in situations that are contentious or have potential for volatility.

I dont think this is fair to the Sheriff as it seems to imply: "Sheriff failed to use his crystal ball."

I live in a mega city where there are probably hundreds of custody exchanges being made every week between ex spouses that hove "potential for volatility".

One of those people making such an exchange is a family friend (no police presence at all). It is realistic for police to maintain a presence at all these custody exchanges?

If not, how do the police foresee which ex spouse is simply an argumentative jerk that pursues his / her legal interests (plenty of those) and which ones are thinking dangerous thoughts?

 

[Warwick7]

Within 2 minutes VBs and JKs cellphones are no longer pinging. This attack was very quick, unfortunately it appears victims were unable to call 911. At first, after they were detoured off the highway it must’ve taken a few moments to figure out what was happening before realizing they were facing deadly danger. Perhaps they tried calling 911 and that’s when the side window got broken with the hammer, stun guns started flaring, one or both victims made a desperate attempt to flee, cellphones were dropped and grabbed by perps and smashed, hammer breaks.

Truth be known, I’d sooner be shot dead with a gun than incapacitated with the electric shock of a stun gun. The level of cruelty inflicted had to be absolutely horrendous and we don’t yet know what the autopsy revealed including COD. I can’t begin to imagine how diabolical not just one, nor two, but FOUR people must be to plot an attack on two woman such as this. Then , later CT casually tells her daughter it didn’t quite go as planned?!! She’s just as evil if not more than TA, she had no personal stake in the motive.

JMO

I think it was very quick also.
At the same time 2 minutes is a lonnnnnnng time. Alot can happen in those 2 minutes. I wonder which part "didn't go according to plan"?

 

[JulesinOz]

I dont think this is fair to the Sheriff as it seems to imply: Sheriff failed to use his crystal ball."

I live in a mega city where there are probably hundreds of custody exchanges being made every week between ex spouses that hove "potential for volatility".

One of those people making such an exchange is a family friend (no police presence at all). It is realistic for police to maintain a presence at all these custody exchanges?

Yes, it’s realistic for a police station to be a safe place to exchange custody. That takes fewer resources than investigating a murder.

 

[Cryptic]

Yes, it’s realistic for a police station to be a safe place to exchange custody. That takes fewer resources than investigating a murder.

Pretty sure that option is available everywhere- if people making the exchanges find it convenient and are willing to do it.

What might not be realistic is a constant police presence at all custody exchange sites that are not at the police or sheriff station. Evidently, the sheriff did provide such a presence at remote sites, but then discontinued it because it his judgement and based on available information, it was not warranted.

The sheriff's judgement was wrong, but then again, he was not issued a crystal ball.

 

[JulesinOz]

I certainly have no expectation of LE being able to foretell the future—but a custody exchange site is a minimal investment into ensuring emotionally charged situations don’t escalate.

Think of it akin to preventative medicine.

Pretty sure that option is available everywhere- if people making the exchanges find it convenient and are willing to do it.

What might not be realistic is a constant police presence at all custody exchange sites that are not at the police or sheriff station. Evidently, the sheriff did provide such a presence at remote sites, but then discontinued it because it his judgement and based on available information, it was not warranted.

The sheriff's judgement was wrong, but then again, he was not issued a crystal ball.

 

[shetalksinstereo]

Yes, it’s realistic for a police station to be a safe place to exchange custody. That takes fewer resources than investigating a murder.

We have a cold case of a woman's murder in our little city of 25,000 that happened right out back of the police station. Anything can happen anywhere; but, I agree that there should be concessions available to those who want to have them. They let people do exchanges from fb marketplace and craigslist at police stations, it's safer than a stranger coming to your house.

 

[Cryptic]

but a custody exchange site is a minimal investment into ensuring emotionally charged situations don’t escalate.

Think of it akin to preventative medicine.

These exchange sites could well already exist in the form of standing police and sheriff stations.

I doubt the police would refuse a request of- "Can we exchange custody in the police building foyer, the parking lot etc?"

Rather the difficulty could be that the parties doing the exchanges must be willing to do it at say, the police station.

 

[ClearAhead]

Pretty sure that option is available everywhere- if people making the exchanges find it convenient and are willing to do it.

What might not be realistic is a constant police presence at all custody exchange sites that are not at the police or sheriff station. Evidently, the sheriff did provide such a presence at remote sites, but then discontinued it because it his judgement and based on available information, it was not warranted.

The sheriff's judgement was wrong, but then again, he was not issued a crystal ball.

It’s been reported that TA told the person she preferred as a supervisor that she could take a couple weeks off. So VB was able to arrange the services of JK.

But was this for supervision of only the custody exchange or was it of the entire visit because it could be either or both? I hadn’t noticed anything confirmed one way or another. If it was court ordered supervision of only the custody exchange it would make sense that LE didn’t think it necessary they be present also. IMO LE presence involving custody exchanges under normal circumstances doesn’t seem like an ideal arrangement with the involvement of children, as that would seem to elude an aura of fear associated with the exchange, one or both parents.

I think restraining/protection order against TA would’ve been more appropriate had it been approved. TA was a perceived (and real) risk at all times, not just the actual custody exchange. JMO

What is a supervised custody exchange, and are the a good idea?

What is a supervised custody exchange?​

A supervised custody exchange or monitored exchange, is a method of transferring custodial time from one divorced or separated parent to the other in a way that prevents interaction or conflict between the parents during the transfer.

When is a supervised custody exchange necessary?​

The intent of a supervised custody exchange is to prevent conflict between parents during custody exchanges. It is not meant to keep the children out of danger from the non-custodial parent like supervised visitation is. Supervised custody exchanges are simply meant to prevent parent-to-parent conflict.

It should be noted that supervised custody exchanges might prevent the parents from seeing each other at all, or they may simply have a third-party available to witness the exchange. The type of exchange depends on the situation. It may be ordered by the court, or it may be negotiated between the parents.

 

[JulesinOz]

Pretty sure that option is available everywhere- if people making the exchanges find it convenient and are willing to do it.

What might not be realistic is a constant police presence at all custody exchange sites that are not at the police or sheriff station. Evidently, the sheriff did provide such a presence at remote sites, but then discontinued it because it his judgement and based on available information, it was not warranted.

The sheriff's judgement was wrong, but then again, he was not issued a crystal ball.

I’m not sure what we’re debating at this point? I’m not asking anyone to be a fortune teller. I’m saying it’s a minimal investment to have a safe exchange site. I’ve never put parameters on that statement. I do think the sheriff was wrong to say because he hadn’t witnessed any reason for concern was to be seen as the equivalent that there must not be any reason for concern. Custody with contentious atmosphere is enough reason. The whole point of a safe exchange is to PREVENT escalation.

 

[Sundog]

Posting this (since I do not believe there is a media thread for VB JK case yet).

From CNN online this morning, an article by Rachel Clarke entitled “Accused of double murder: The grandmother, her boyfriend and the couple who hosted anti-government religious meetings”:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/21/us/oklahoma-double-murder-plot/index.html

This article says that CoraT and ColeT returned to their home around 12 noon. The victims' phones stopped pinging around 9:45 a.m. (IIRC) and the burner phones stopped pinging around 10:15 a.m. at the pasture area near the dam, if I am understanding this article correctly. The article says that TA picked up her children around noon after they had stayed overnight with friends. So it sounds like all the defendants were together and took part in whatever happened at the burial site for quite a long time (minus travel time there and back).

 

[Cedars]

I’m not sure what we’re debating at this point? I’m not asking anyone to be a fortune teller. I’m saying it’s a minimal investment to have a safe exchange site. I’ve never put parameters on that statement. I do think the sheriff was wrong to say because he hadn’t witnessed any reason for concern was to be seen as the equivalent that there must not be any reason for concern. Custody with contentious atmosphere is enough reason. The whole point of a safe exchange is to PREVENT escalation.

IMO, there could have been an LE squad car waiting at the pickup spot, and the ambush would have gone ahead just as it did.

TA would have blamed VB for failing to cancel, exactly as she did do.

JMO

 

[Artis]

Tifany also had an upcoming case with Tad over a previous dispute with his ex-wife and assets before their divorce that weren't disclosed...

Well, I'm sure she's feeling that she just dodged a bullet.

 

[Universecalling]

Yes, I saw that. Two of the 3 burner phones went to the Cullum Property and appear to have traveled together to the burial place at Beasley's property.

What I have not been able to figure out is that when the group was going to Cullum's place, a lone burner phone went to the Twombly property. HOWEVER, according to Cora's daughter, Cole and Cora returned at the same time driving the same vehicles they had taken -- Chevy PU and flatbed around noon. So, who was it who carried one of the three burner phones to the Twomley place and eventually shut it down there -- about the same time the phones shut down at Beasley's property -- IIRC.

Was it confirmed TA went to Cook’s house to pick up the children just before noon? I know that is stated in the court docs, I just don’t remember if that was what TA said to LE or was that also corroborated.