GUILTY NY - Ex-President Donald Trump, charged with 34 criminal counts of falsifying business records, Apr 2023, Trial 25 Mar 2024 #4

[browneyes]

FDT could be going to Rikers.

Is Trump going to prison? What to know about the possible sentence after his conviction

For the first time, a judge will consider whether a former president should be put behind bars for a felony conviction.

www.cbsnews.com

In the event that Trump is sentenced to jail time, the location would depend on the duration of his sentence.

If Trump faces more than one year in jail, New York law requires that his sentence be served in a New York penal facility. But if his sentence is shorter than a year, it would be served in a New York City correctional facility, such as Rikers Island.

Thanks for the info. I don’t care how short or long his sentence is…I just want him to go to prison. Reality show stars, the Chrisley’s and the Guidice’s were sentenced to prison for financial crimes. Trump is a former reality star and former president. He deserves to spend some time behind bars.

 

[RANCH]

Nor should it be. This is a very important moment in history and it should be talked about by every candidate, not just Biden. MOO.

Thank you for reminding me what RFK Jr said recently.

“The Democratic Party’s strategy is to beat President Trump in the courtroom rather than the ballot box. This will backfire in November. Even worse, it is profoundly undemocratic,” Kennedy wrote on X, formerly Twitter.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/31/rfk-jr-trump-verdict-undemocratic-00161065

 

[RANCH]

If so, it won't be very effective. Trump reports, (if you give him any credibility), that he has had record breaking donations since the conviction. If the conviction is going to be used as a campaign tool, it might not be by Biden.

I think the charges, trial and verdict are right.

You could be right. This conviction may help President Trump gain voters in November.

Anything is possible but I doubt the Biden campaign will not use the conviction between now and November. Even if it's ineffective. JMO.

 

[vls12345]

To me, that's exactly why he should be treated like any other person convicted of the crimes he was accused of. If that's a prison sentence, so be it. If we treat convicts differently because we cower to violent supporters, then we're legalizing the mob. He should be imprisoned (if appropriate) and so should any of his supporters who break the law in defense of him. Fear of their response shouldn't dictate punishment. MOO.

His supporters have been violent even when he when he wasn't convicted. They were violent because he was a sore loser. They are violent because he makes them feel good about being violent.

He's cultivated the persecution complex so well that his followers are going to be violent for the rest of his life. They are "fighting" against his persecution. If all goes well for him, they will be violent to enact "revenge".

MOO.

Short answer : they are violent regardless of what does or doesn't happen.

 

[nanja]

I am totally confused with this whole case. Should have followed it from the beginning but didn' t . Can someone in simple language explain to me what law was broken? Also I always thought felony charges were reserved for cases involving violence like murder, armed robbery. How did this become a felony charge versus a misdomeanor?

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I am totally confused with this whole case. Should have followed it from the beginning but didn' t . Can someone in simple language explain to me what law was broken? Also I always thought felony charges were reserved for cases involving violence like murder, armed robbery. How did this become a felony charge versus a misdomeanor?

Falsifying Business Records: NY PL 175.10 and 175.15

Free Consultation - Call (212) 312-7129 - Former Manhattan Prosecutor. Saland Law aggressively represents the accused against charges in Criminal Defense & Crime cases. Serving the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens & Manhattan. Falsifying Business Records: NY PL 175.10 and 175.15 - New York Criminal...

www.new-york-lawyers.org

"Simply, if you delete, alter or make a false entry in the business records of an enterprise and you do so with the intent to defraud, you have run afoul of the misdemeanor crime. If when you do so, you also have the intent to further or conceal another criminal offense, then you have committed the felony crime."

Perhaps the quickest and easiest way to get up to speed is to read the statement of facts which outline the case: https://manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/2023-04-04-SOF.pdf

and then if you're still interested in detail, the indictment itself: https://manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-Indictment.pdf

 

[nanja]

Falsifying Business Records: NY PL 175.10 and 175.15

Free Consultation - Call (212) 312-7129 - Former Manhattan Prosecutor. Saland Law aggressively represents the accused against charges in Criminal Defense & Crime cases. Serving the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens & Manhattan. Falsifying Business Records: NY PL 175.10 and 175.15 - New York Criminal...

www.new-york-lawyers.org

"Simply, if you delete, alter or make a false entry in the business records of an enterprise and you do so with the intent to defraud, you have run afoul of the misdemeanor crime. If when you do so, you also have the intent to further or conceal another criminal offense, then you have committed the felony crime."

Perhaps the quickest and easiest way to get up to speed is to read the statement of facts which outline the case: https://manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/2023-04-04-SOF.pdf

and then if you're still interested in detail, the indictment itself: https://manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-Indictment.pdf

Thank you for the information!

 

[10ofRods]

I am totally confused with this whole case. Should have followed it from the beginning but didn' t . Can someone in simple language explain to me what law was broken? Also I always thought felony charges were reserved for cases involving violence like murder, armed robbery. How did this become a felony charge versus a misdomeanor?

There are lots and lots of non-violent felonies. Embezzlement, fraud, illegal business practices rising to the level of severe negligence (criminal negligence). Both embezzlement and fraud are very serious crimes, as are such things as offering bribes or hush money.

In Trump's case, there is another, connected felony. It starts with trying to give hush money to a person who was alleging that she had had sex with Trump, in order to keep her quiet during the last election. This was bad enough, but the real problem is that he then falsified business records in order to make it look like he hadn't given the hush money.

The felonies were not high level felonies, but Class E in New York. Corporations and individuals can both be charged with such crimes.

Falsifying business records - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From that article:

//Under New York law, falsifying business records in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor, while falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.

The crime becomes one of the first degree, and a felony, when an individual[3]

commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

//
So it became a felony because records were falsified to cover up another crime (hush money). That's what the jury had to decide.

If businesses or individuals are allowed to falsify records to cover up crimes, it's a crime in most jurisdictions - certainly in New York, it is.

IMO.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

His supporters have been violent even when he when he wasn't convicted. They were violent because he was a sore loser. They are violent because he makes them feel good about being violent.

He's cultivated the persecution complex so well that his followers are going to be violent for the rest of his life. They are "fighting" against his persecution. If all goes well for him, they will be violent to enact "revenge".

MOO.

Short answer : they are violent regardless of what does or doesn't happen.

That’s a broad brush. I’m not violent and never will be, just like the majority of people that support him.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

If so, it won't be very effective. Trump reports, (if you give him any credibility), that he has had record breaking donations since the conviction. If the conviction is going to be used as a campaign tool, it might not be by Biden.

I think the charges, trial and verdict are right.

Trump lies, now proven in a court of law. I wouldn't give it a second thought. MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Thank you for reminding me what RFK Jr said recently.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/31/rfk-jr-trump-verdict-undemocratic-00161065

RFK Jr speaks for a minority of sycophants among the party, none of whom can point to exactly what is so unjustified/unfair about this trial. This is not (and never has been) corruption of the law. It's applicability of well-established state law to a person who thought he was above it all.

MOO.

 

[RANCH]

RFK Jr speaks for a minority of sycophants among the party, none of whom can point to exactly what is so unjustified/unfair about this trial. This is not (and never has been) corruption of the law. It's applicability of well-established state law to a person who thought he was above it all.

MOO.

But he's a non Republican candidate. That's why I find his honesty refreshing. JMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I am totally confused with this whole case. Should have followed it from the beginning but didn' t . Can someone in simple language explain to me what law was broken? Also I always thought felony charges were reserved for cases involving violence like murder, armed robbery. How did this become a felony charge versus a misdomeanor?

I'll let someone more well versed than I am explain the laws, but you are incorrect that felony charges have to involve violence. Fraud and financial crimes often fall under felony convictions. Think Martha Stewart and Bernie Madoff.

MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

But he's a non Republican candidate. That's why I find his honesty refreshing. JMO.

To be clear, I have zero problem with regular Republicans. I have a problem with Trump and the Trump supporters who lie and corrupt the facts. RFK is doing that very thing here. Where are the facts of why this is unjustified? Other high-profile white-collar convicts would like to know exactly how he's being treated unfairly. MOO

 

[Forest_Wood]

But he's a non Republican candidate. That's why I find his honesty refreshing. JMO.

How would you be able to prove RFK Jr is being "honest" when he said that?

 

[RANCH]

How would you be able to prove RFK Jr is being "honest" when he said that?

I said that it was my opinion that RFK Jr is being honest.

 

[branmuffin]

That’s a broad brush. I’m not violent and never will be, just like the majority of people that support him.

I agree that not all Trump supporters are violent. However, I struggle to understand why so many, as recently as the day Trump was convicted, continue to say if he shot someone on 5th Ave they'd still vote for him. I truly do not understand that mind set. We're talking about killing someone, in front of other people, and they'd still vote for him. That's mind boggling to me.

I always try to put it in perspective and imagine a scenario where my daughter brought home her new boyfriend who was a profane, boastful, disrespectful individual who made fun of people with physical infirmities, talked about stiffing trades he dealt with and got away with it and had a string of marriages where each subsequent wife was just a replacement who ultimately was cheated on. I don't think it would matter to me if he was a wizard at finance. He'd be a seriously flawed individual and no amount of massaging information to make him more palatable to me would work.

 

[RANCH]

To be clear, I have zero problem with regular Republicans. I have a problem with Trump and the Trump supporters who lie and corrupt the facts. RFK is doing that very thing here. Where are the facts of why this is unjustified? Other high-profile white-collar convicts would like to know exactly how he's being treated unfairly. MOO

I'm a Trump supporter who disagrees with the way this trial was run and therefore disagree with the juries verdict. JMO.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

To be clear, I have zero problem with regular Republicans. I have a problem with Trump and the Trump supporters who lie and corrupt the facts. RFK is doing that very thing here. Where are the facts of why this is unjustified? Other high-profile white-collar convicts would like to know exactly how he's being treated unfairly. MOO

I’ve always thought this case was political because of the timing of it, among other things. Part of Alvin Bragg’s campaign included going after Trump. imo

The article linked below sums up a lot for me that I have difficulty putting into words. Here’s just a snippet -

“‘No man is above the law.’ It’s become cliché, but it’s an important point, and it’s worth pausing to reflect on the importance of this core principle,” concluded Honig. “But it’s also meaningless pablum if we unquestioningly tolerate (or worse, celebrate) deviations from ordinary process and principle to get there. The jury’s word is indeed sacrosanct, as I learned long ago. But it can’t fix everything that preceded it. Here, prosecutors got their man, for now at least — but they also contorted the law in an unprecedented manner in their quest to snare their prey.

Elie Honig Skewers Alvin Bragg for Bringing ‘Ill-Conceived, Unjustified Mess’ of a Case Against Trump

Elie Honig skewered Alvin Bragg in a new column reacting to Donald Trump's conviction, calling the case that led to it an "ill-conceived, unjustified mess."

www.mediaite.com

 

[RANCH]

I’ve always thought this case was political because of the timing of it, among other things. Part of Alvin Bragg’s campaign included going after Trump. imo

The article linked below sums up a lot for me that I have difficulty putting into words. Here’s just a snippet -

“‘No man is above the law.’ It’s become cliché, but it’s an important point, and it’s worth pausing to reflect on the importance of this core principle,” concluded Honig. “But it’s also meaningless pablum if we unquestioningly tolerate (or worse, celebrate) deviations from ordinary process and principle to get there. The jury’s word is indeed sacrosanct, as I learned long ago. But it can’t fix everything that preceded it. Here, prosecutors got their man, for now at least — but they also contorted the law in an unprecedented manner in their quest to snare their prey.

Elie Honig Skewers Alvin Bragg for Bringing ‘Ill-Conceived, Unjustified Mess’ of a Case Against Trump

Elie Honig skewered Alvin Bragg in a new column reacting to Donald Trump's conviction, calling the case that led to it an "ill-conceived, unjustified mess."

www.mediaite.com

Thanks for the link. The part were Honig faults Bragg for "Hiding the ball on the underlying felony crime used to resurrect expired misdemeanors." is going to be part of any appeal. Like I've stated in previous posts up thread.

JMO.