MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #6

[nodamselindistress]

Thanks, that makes sense. HAir looks to be a dead end if cw were prevented from exhausting the sample. Do we know the outcome to the d's motion to prevent consumptive testing?

Unfortunately that document was not included in the list of pleadings I was able to find and research. Hopefully someone else knows who followed pre-trial motions. I was knee deep in my other trial at that point!

 

[jepop]

Unfortunately that document was not included in the list of pleadings I was able to find and research. Hopefully someone else knows who followed pre-trial motions. I was knee deep in my other trial at that point!

No worries and thanks again. And please note, Sorry! I read what you posted as defense motion (to prevent testing that would use up what was left of the skin cell derived dna on the follicle) when it was a cw motion seeking permission for the testing. For sake of clarity I have no idea if defense ever objected to cw motion you posted!

 

[geevee]

" I hit him " is not evidence. It was never giving in an official way as in no official statement was giving to the police in terms of an admission of guilt. No one was able to corroborate it. It never made it into any police of 1st responder reports. The person who claimed to hear that statement has been shown to lie. ( 17 butt dials!!, deleted Google searches, etc... yeah right!). The same person who claims to have heard KR make that statement admits that KR was " hysterical" and " not making any sense". So IF we are to believe what JM says is true, KR's statements can not be taken as truth because she "wasn't making any sense".

Not for one nanosecond do I believe that KR all of a sudden came to her senses and had this moment of clarity where she admits to murdering JO before slipping back into hysterics and asking her so called friends if she " was having her period" because of all the blood that was on her face.

All the other evidence that was collected is completely tainted and unreliable because of sloppy investigation techniques including: Absolutely NO CONTROL of the crime scene, No logs of who entered and left the crime scene, missing video footage, collected evidence, lack of collected evidence along with compromised chain of custody protocols, compromised witnesses, missing cell phones, and on and on and on.

Just one of those things creates reasonable doubt.

Although I didn't see the pretrial hearings, I can only presume the defense tried to keep most of this from coming in, yet the judge still allowed it, for some unfathomable reason.

Nice appeal issue if she were to be convicted, but I don't see how with the CW's lack of any proof she actually hit him, more like they are only trying to have the jury 'draw the conclusion' that she probably did. Which leaves miles of reasonable doubt.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Thanks, that makes sense. HAir looks to be a dead end if cw were prevented from exhausting the sample. Do we know the outcome to the d's motion to prevent consumptive testing?

The prosecution has two Bode experts on their list (the hair was sent to Bode labs). Forensic Mitochondrial DNA expert Tess Chart and Nicholas Bradford who is listed as a DNA expert.

My guess is they will testify the mitochondrial DNA of the hair is consistent with John's.

I personally don't see this as meaning all that much. Karen lived with John, the vehicle was housed in John's garage regularly and John rode in the car that night. Did he grab a snow brush out of the trunk?

Given all the blood and damage to John's head and arms, it seems a little bizarre that all the prosecution has to show for this is a little hair fragment.

 

[cocomod]

No blood on the car according to the experts. The hair is a non-entity in my honest opinion. I don't understand why the CW would have even presented it.

 

[jepop]

No blood on the car according to the experts. The hair is a non-entity in my honest opinion. I don't understand why the CW would have even presented it.

Agree, was just trying to get straight what happenned to the apparent hair as I missed testimony after Harnett. Not sure how the Ah did not blow off the vehicle on its journey, that is if it was even there prior to lexus arriving at the police compound, moo

 

[Wishbone]

No worries and thanks again. And please note, Sorry! I read what you posted as defense motion (to prevent testing that would use up what was left of the skin cell derived dna on the follicle) when it was a cw motion seeking permission for the testing. For sake of clarity I have no idea if defense ever objected to cw motion you posted!

This is the latest( April 19, 2024)I found about mtdna testing the cw had done. Believe the company name is Bode Technology

As far as the trial, new documents filed in court Thursday reveal a report from a Virginia-based lab about DNA tests. The results are connected to a piece of hair that was discovered on Read's SUV after her boyfriend John O'Keefe, a former Boston police officer, was found dead.
Prosecutors have given the report to Read's lawyers, but the judge hasn't made a ruling on if the data will be allowed in court.

With 4 jurors still to be chosen, selection in Karen Read case continues next week

More than half of the people who will serve on the Karen Read murder trial jury have been picked after two days of jury selection. Meanwhile, NBC10 Boston obtained the jury questionnaire from the clerk’s office of the Norfolk Superior Court.

www.nbcboston.com

 

[HarmonyE.]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

The FBI documents are not in evidence because they were ruled off limits by the Judge. The FBI grand jury still is not closed. However, the defense can use the material provided by the FBI in cross examining witnesses, and they have multiple times.

If the FBI used an outside expert, that expert will likely be called by the defense. If they used an FBI employee, that individual likely will not be called. However, the defense has three biomechanical experts who will testify to the same thing.

I can't tell if the state has any expert that can demonstrate their theory of what happened. We'll see though. Dying to hear their thoughts on all those puncture tears to his shirts.

 

[jepop]

This is the latest( April 19, 2024)I found about mtdna testing the cw had done. Believe the company name is Bode Technology

As far as the trial, new documents filed in court Thursday reveal a report from a Virginia-based lab about DNA tests. The results are connected to a piece of hair that was discovered on Read's SUV after her boyfriend John O'Keefe, a former Boston police officer, was found dead.
Prosecutors have given the report to Read's lawyers, but the judge hasn't made a ruling on if the data will be allowed in court.

With 4 jurors still to be chosen, selection in Karen Read case continues next week

More than half of the people who will serve on the Karen Read murder trial jury have been picked after two days of jury selection. Meanwhile, NBC10 Boston obtained the jury questionnaire from the clerk’s office of the Norfolk Superior Court.

www.nbcboston.com

Thanks very much for the update, wow all very recent. Ridiculous imo

 

[MadMcGoo]

AS A REMINDER,

Websleuths members have the ability to react to posts with one of several emojis, but some of you are occasionally using the HaHa one to ridicule or mock other members, rather than using it as a way to share a chuckle. This is NOT respectful.

Members who continue to use emojis improperly risk having the privilege to use that feature permanently removed.

 

[Wishbone]

Thanks very much for the update, wow all very recent. Ridiculous imo

All over a single hair that could not survive without being super glued to the car, if that. Ridiculous. The cw is insulting the intelligence of anyone following this trial.JMO

 

[altissima]

There's a photo of John's body lying in a hospital bed, with his clothes in a heap on the floor. An officer's legs can be seen next to them.

Where'd they go from there? The defense touched upon it yesterday, but it seems they weren't catalogued until March.

Did they land in the same Stop and Shop bag with the plastic pieces? Or was it a Dollar Tree bag this time?

My money’s on Mahhket Basket.

 

[TIGER0822]

RBBM

It is extremely odd to write such a thing, as if the ME were 'instructed' to include this.

John O'Keefe didn't drown either, but the ME doesn't say that.

Why declare it was not a fight?

Exactly !

 

[keek]

All over a single hair that could not survive without being super glued to the car, if that. Ridiculous. The cw is insulting the intelligence of anyone following this trial.JMO

I also feel that by the appearance of JO's clothing, there was a lot of blood that was def down the back of his shirt, (back of head wound), at a somewhat straight down but slanted appearance. Front of shirt as well, from nose/mouth bleeding? My thing is that do you think his double 'shirts' absorbed all of that or could more of fallen to the floor as it was happening? (the word that cellar/basement floor redo would be the reason). I know some blood was collected outside in the solo cups, but I think it was not shown to be a large amount. I feel being in the snow/cold may of stopped some of it, though he was said to still be alive for a while, inside still or outside. (All my respect for John O'Keefe in my personal questions regarding him).

 

[shotgun09]

If I were a citizen of Canton, I would not have much faith in the CPD to do anything correctly, safely or fairly. These officers need some serious " Remedial Training", from the top on down. The failures are too big to ignore

Beginning with " Let's prepare and secure a crime scene in the snow". Because yes CPD.....it does snow in Canton MA.

Secondly, "Let's interview witnesses separately, without donuts "

Most importantly, " Let's create a log, and document all who are and were present at each scene regarding the crime."

Let us also identify and use properly the accepted receptacle for gathering and securing evidence, while simultaneously logging the same. ( That's a hard one here, folks).

In Bold, for those who need it:
When CPD is 'conflicted out' of a case, it means you jack. Stay out of this crime and investigation. Step away from any of it!

Feel free to add on !
MOO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

No blood on the car according to the experts. The hair is a non-entity in my honest opinion. I don't understand why the CW would have even presented it.

RBBM -- Probably thinking a juror would think, "A HA! A Hair!" due to being conditioned by American TV shows that DNA is so easily accessible and never refutable. JMO

 

[keek]

If I were a citizen of Canton, I would not have much faith in the CPD to do anything correctly, safely or fairly. These officers need some serious " Remedial Training", from the top on down. The failures are too big to ignore

Beginning with " Let's prepare and secure a crime scene in the snow". Because yes CPD.....it does snow in Canton MA.

Secondly, "Let's interview witnesses separately, without donuts "

Most importantly, " Let's create a log, and document all who are and were present at each scene regarding the crime."

Let us also identify and use properly the accepted receptacle for gathering and securing evidence, while simultaneously logging the same. ( That's a hard one here, folks).

In Bold, for those who need it:
When CPD is 'conflicted out' of a case, it means you jack. Stay out of this crime and investigation. Step away from any of it!

Feel free to add on !
MOO

I believe, in this TYPICAL, family style town here, 'small town vibe big time', I know it and can imagine the thinking and action processes were initially, JUST that they got a call of a man, maybe, maybe identified by caller as a BPD officer and resident. ASSESSING and tending to HIM, as some said there, or one of the first responders said. Police also show up and behave in same manner and asking or being TOLD what MOST likely happened per the tellers. JMc and KR. These are usually local to the town and area police officers born and bred.

Doesn't sound like any proper procedural steps were really taken at that time probably due to this. Then of course, Proctor and co. get their heads and thought processes together and of course KR didn't play along those lines, surprise to them, eventually.
I see the State Police group came in that NIGHT and did their own searching. A terrible mess with some terrible people/PD staff ETC. involved due to themselves and their reasons on top of all of this created maybe no justice for J.O'keefe as we want to see, along with his friends/ family and decent people.

I'm always wondering too, if his good brothers in blue are doing their own thing on the down low in this too, somehow, or will.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I also feel that by the appearance of JO's clothing, there was a lot of blood that was def down the back of his shirt, (back of head wound), at a somewhat straight down but slanted appearance. Front of shirt as well, from nose/mouth bleeding? My thing is that do you think his double 'shirts' absorbed all of that or could more of fallen to the floor as it was happening? (the word that cellar/basement floor redo would be the reason). I know some blood was collected outside in the solo cups, but I think it was not shown to be a large amount. I feel being in the snow/cold may of stopped some of it, though he was said to still be alive for a while, inside still or outside. (All my respect for John O'Keefe in my personal questions regarding him).

Important points.

If JO had been knocked onto the lawn and landed on his back (or was it is stomach? I've never seen any definitive clarification) the condition of his clothing makes no sense.

His injury at the back of his head no doubt would have bled very heavily. Had he been lying on the lawn the entire time, the blood should have pooled under his head and not all the way back down his clothing. The light snow and colder temps would not have stopped the blood, certainly not for quite awhile. And yet the Canton cops only see a few drops. Where is the rest of the pools of blood?

And if he had been lying horizontal, which he must have been if Read hit him as no one saw him sitting on the lawn (or lying on the lawn, but I digress. Arguably easier to see someone sitting on the lawn as you watch all the cars from the dining room window), how does that much blood land all the way down his shirt, especially considering the police did not see a pool when there were only a couple of inches of snow on the ground?

We can ask the same about the front of his shirt (and of course the tears to the right arm of the sweatshirt couldn't have been caused by a car) so the question must be asked. Was he propped upright for a period of time in BA's basement bleeding out while his killers decided what to do next? It sure looks like that's a good possibility. The replacement of the floor would also fit here.

 

[keek]

Important points.

If JO had been knocked onto the lawn and landed on his back (or was it is stomach? I've never seen any definitive clarification) the condition of his clothing makes no sense.

His injury at the back of his head no doubt would have bled very heavily. Had he been lying on the lawn the entire time, the blood should have pooled under his head and not all the way back down his clothing. The light snow and colder temps would not have stopped the blood, certainly not for quite awhile. And yet the Canton cops only see a few drops. Where is the rest of the pools of blood?

And if he had been lying horizontal, which he must have been if Read hit him as no one saw him sitting on the lawn (or lying on the lawn, but I digress. Arguably easier to see someone sitting on the lawn as you watch all the cars from the dining room window), how does that much blood land all the way down his shirt, especially considering the police did not see a pool when there were only a couple of inches of snow on the ground?

We can ask the same about the front of his shirt (and of course the tears to the right arm of the sweatshirt couldn't have been caused by a car) so the question must be asked. Was he propped upright for a period of time in BA's basement bleeding out while his killers decided what to do next? It sure looks like that's a good possibility. The replacement of the floor would also fit here.

I do see that, I think he was propped up for a while in the basement due to the blood direction and lack of it outside under his head and around where he lay.

 

[HarmonyE.]

If I were a citizen of Canton, I would not have much faith in the CPD to do anything correctly, safely or fairly. These officers need some serious " Remedial Training", from the top on down. The failures are too big to ignore

Beginning with " Let's prepare and secure a crime scene in the snow". Because yes CPD.....it does snow in Canton MA.

Secondly, "Let's interview witnesses separately, without donuts "

Most importantly, " Let's create a log, and document all who are and were present at each scene regarding the crime."

Let us also identify and use properly the accepted receptacle for gathering and securing evidence, while simultaneously logging the same. ( That's a hard one here, folks).

In Bold, for those who need it:
When CPD is 'conflicted out' of a case, it means you jack. Stay out of this crime and investigation. Step away from any of it!

Feel free to add on !
MOO

The town of Canton is taking steps to audit the police department which is a good start.

But I do want to point out that much of what you are addressing was the responsibility of the state police who not only delayed taking over the investigation from Canton when asked to do so, but also conducted the "interviews", failed to log evidence properly (taillight) and whose lead investigator was close friends with the Alberts.

Proctor, Proctor, Proctor.