MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #8

[Elliot_Alderson]

But the question was why would you think she did after only 18 hours, not how did he prove it after only 18 hours. Why he thought she did it is pretty obvious.

I disagree it was pretty obvious. I’m still waiting to see any taillight evidence tagged 01/29. Absent that, what evidence was there? The only evidence was a cop in that house pointing them towards her.

JMO

 

[shotgun09]

Thank you. That's what I thought I heard. How did he so quickly form the opinion that she's a "whack job" I wonder.

My guess? Jen McCabe

 

[Linda7NJ]

I did not know this … https://www.wpri.com/news/local-new...y-drunk-driver-still-recovering-months-later/

 

[ch_13]

But the question was why would you think she did after only 18 hours, not how did he prove it after only 18 hours. Why he thought she did it is pretty obvious.

Actually, it's really not.

It seems like the police were first thinking it was some kind of physical altercation, whether a domestic incident between John and Karen or between John and someone else.

How did they make the leap to car/pedestrian collision when his body was not found in the road, but on the lawn? And the various injuries don't necessarily correspond neatly to a car crash.

On direct testimony, Proctor claimed it was because John was missing a shoe and to him that equates to being hit by a car. But really, that's kind of ridiculous. A man can lose a shoe in a dozen different ways. It's not sufficient to zero in on a collision to the exclusion of any other possibility.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm afraid I don't follow. The bottom of John's glass isn't missing at all.

I don't know if you've been watching the trial but it was one of the first pieces of evidence introduced:

The only pieces missing are the ones along the glass's rim. But those don't correspond to the glass found on Karen Read's bumper. Those were completely unrelated glass shards according to the police's own forensic scientist.

I missed that part, thank you for the clarification and photo

Could it be the broken bulb in the tail light ?

 

[Soulmagent]

Thank you. That's what I thought I heard. How did he so quickly form the opinion that she's a "whack job" I wonder.

Medication list ?

 

[Leilei]

Medication list ?

How would he have her meds list, and why would that list lead him to call her a "whack job"? If he's insinuating that she is mentally ill, well, that's pretty derogatory, too, due to the term that he used.
IMO.

 

[louvillian08]

I missed that part, thank you for the clarification and photo

Could it be the broken bulb in the tail light ?

No. Her taillight can be seen lit up in the footage from the next morning when she hits JO's car. The bulb wasn't broken

 

[nodamselindistress]

I snipped ,hope you don't mind but your post made me wonder what everyone's plans were for the following day and what normal routines did everyone miss the following day ?
I haven't watched much testimony but most of these people seem to old for all night house parties and carefree days lacking responsibilities .
Also ,has this dog really just vanished ?
If I was the defendant or her lawyer I might print up a missing dog poster with a large reward , but I am not up to date yet.

The dog, Chloe, did not disappear. Nicole Albert testified that the dog was rehomed to a farm in VA or VT or some other state. She maintains she knows exactly where Chloe is but she is not divulging that info.

 

[Soulmagent]

How would he have her meds list, and why would that list lead him to call her a "whack job"? If he's insinuating that she is mentally ill, well, that's pretty derogatory, too, due to the term that he used.
IMO.

The prescription monitoring program ,would be how he had her med list ,and her med list might include some medications he thinks are related to mental illness , Not 100 percent but he is a detective and a realty crappy person. So he could have gotten her med list legally or illegal. His possibilities for obtaining information are endless.

 

[ch_13]

I missed that part, thank you for the clarification and photo

Could it be the broken bulb in the tail light ?

I don't think that model Lexus would use old-fashioned glass bulbs for taillights. Does any modern car?

I believe the "bulb" is a LED that's integrated into the taillight housing. Someone who knows more about this may correct me, but I believe you can see the LEDs still intact in the taillight that was removed from the car.

 

[Aquarian]

Yes Aquarian I fear that may be the case. But IANAL and have only dealt with federal HIPAA laws for some limited prior professional work experience, medical records for my children, and the death of my late father.

So I am not sure what applies; maybe there are some MA state regulations that also apply or govern such conduct? And Derph notes above in post #54 compelling reasons why medical health records should remain sacrosanct IMO. (And surely one would think in the hands of any professional and in particular law enforcement or an investigator it would be treated as such.)

As someone on this (or most recent) thread in this case asked last night IIRC, perhaps a key remaining question is: the source for where / how proctor obtained the sensitive KR health information. One might believe it was either i) from KR personal phone and / or ii) her confidential medical health records?

Perhaps federal investigators will mine some good heavy ‘lead’ on those questions and eventually it will be learned. And that might lead to some other corrective or punitive actions.

I won’t waste any time or effort on the apparent ‘motives’ or reasons for proctor having shared such delicate health information on the defendant. But perhaps once the results of the investigation and this case are complete maybe some more things will be public in regard to his actions in this case? MOO

This is speculation on my part, but I wouldn’t think generally MP would have had a need to review KR’s medical records in regard to the case circumstances.
I’m leaning towards him learning info from her phone and or JO’s. I would hope internally there would be some sort of reprimand to MP for sharing that info as you mentioned. But who knows? Maybe part of the Fed inquiry .

 

[darring21]

I am going to flip this and ask about all the people who are not charged with murder but have been called murderers, eg. Colin Albert. They have been subjected to harassment and there's been some wild stuff said about them on social media. Do they have any recourse i.e. civil suits against Tik Tockers/You Tubers?

The text messages were on his personal phone but that info was collected due to the federal investigation and he was conducting police work with his personal phone which makes it subject to subpoena.

Yes, anybody would have recourse through civil court for slander/libel if someone says/writes something untrue about them and they have damages as a result of the lie.

 

[mzmarymac]

Interesting and thanks for including this Seni. Never ‘met’ her apparently.

But was he familiar with who she is, did he know who she was, or know of her perhaps? As TTF14 notes how did someone (proctor) apparently have such instant apparent ‘contempt’ or judgement of KR? (My choice of words….. not sure what to call his seeming instantaneous and continued malignment of the defendant?) MOO

He learned everything he needed to learn from the assembled cabal at the McCabe's home.

 

[darring21]

I fully expect she will be found not guilty. It seems likely she will be able to sue the Canton PD and the State for violation of her civil rights (?). Does anyone else think this is likely or not?

Additionally, most of the investigative material from the federal investigation was not permitted by the judge in this trial. If there was a civil suit, would the material from the federal investigation be available for it?

 

[nodamselindistress]

He learned everything he needed to learn from the assembled cabal at the McCabe's home.

And I have seen enough posts from locals to know that KR was considered an outsider, she was not a townie or a statie or whatever they call themselves (those from Canton). I admit to not really understanding that since where I live there are few natives, but seems to be a big thing around Boston area.

 

[themonk]

The dog, Chloe, did not disappear. Nicole Albert testified that the dog was rehomed to a farm in VA or VT or some other state. She maintains she knows exactly where Chloe is but she is not divulging that info.

Nicole is just the best

 

[KMouse]

I fully expect she will be found not guilty. It seems likely she will be able to sue the Canton PD and the State for violation of her civil rights (?). Does anyone else think this is likely or not?

Additionally, most of the investigative material from the federal investigation was not permitted by the judge in this trial. If there was a civil suit, would the material from the federal investigation be available for it?

What civil rights were violated?

 

[Spyderlady]

Could someone please tell me what "the CW" stands for? I think it refers to the prosecution but I'm not sure.
I've never come across this acronym during other trials that I've followed. TIA

 

[mzmarymac]

Could someone please tell me what "the CW" stands for? I think it refers to the prosecution but I'm not sure.
I've never come across this acronym during other trials that I've followed. TIA

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