UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sep 2007 #2

[dotr]

The longer version (18 minutes long) of the documentary "The Lad We Knew" about Andrew's case was released a few days ago on Youtube. (Easy to find by title). His father, Kevin, speaks in the documentary, including about what it's like to live with that ambiguous loss and how in retrospect, they really did not see any warning signs prior to Andrew going missing. ETA: There is also good information about the "Missing People" charity.

May 8, 2024
A documentary covering the case of Andrew Gosden, a 14-year-old boy who disappeared in September 2014.

 

[wcasewatch]

For the reasons outlined in this video, I really doubt the grooming theory. There doesn't appear to be any access point for a groomer. Suicide or an opportunistic predator in London make the most sense.

 

[cuecard]

For the reasons outlined in this video, I really doubt the grooming theory. There doesn't appear to be any access point for a groomer. Suicide or an opportunistic predator in London make the most sense.

Alternatively, groomers can be very good at what they do and how they do it. It’s a story as old as time in crime cases. I have no real concrete theory on this case as nothing can really be ruled out but withdrawing £200 from your bank, travelling hours/over 150 miles to the capital city to commit suicide makes little to no sense to me at all.

That said, what happened that day only had to make sense to Andrew at the time. It’s what makes this case so compelling.

 

[wcasewatch]

Groomers that operate in real life (as opposed to the Internet) aren't usually that secretive. They tend to be obvious in hindsight. Gifts, striking up friendships with the family, and coming up with ways to spend time alone with the victim. They often target children in broken homes because the dynamics make it easier to gain access to the victim. With Andrew, we know that he didn't really use the Internet. He also spent his evenings and weekends at home. I can't see any realistic way for a groomer to gain the required time and access to him.

Agreed about your last point. It is also difficult to apply adult logic to the decisions of a 14 year old.

 

[wcasewatch]

I visited Fulham in London when I was a teenager in the mid-2000s. My brother and I decided to explore the area around our hotel. We walked up one particular street. However, we turned around after a few seconds and walked back towards our hotel when we realised that it stretched off into the distance and didn't seem too interesting.

When we turned the corner, a man approached me. To him, it would have appeared as though I had come from that direction. He seemed normal. Casual clothes, well-dressed, sunglasses, with a disposable coffee cup in his hand. He immediately held up his phone and said that he had received a call from his colleague. The supposed colleague had seen me further up the street and was interested in paying me to feature in a fitness advert.

I thought he was simply mistaken, as I hadn't really come from that direction. However, before I could explain, he doubled down. He told me that his colleague saw a guy wearing (insert exact description of me and my clothing, right down to the colours and brands).

Immediately, I realised that he was straight-up lying to me and made my excuses to leave.

Given what I now know about various criminal cases, that experience bothers me far more than it initially did.

Something to keep in mind when you wonder how someone can disappear without a trace in such a busy city.

 

[JusticeDT]

When I was about 10 and my older sister about 13 we went into our local town for a slice of pizza and a mooch about. This wasn't unusual and sometimes we would stop at my aunts on way home. For some stupid reason, this particular day she suggested we go to London. We didn't live far (20.mins max train) and had been often with our parents. We felt very grown up in Covent Gardens and went to get some egg fried rice from China town. We probably looked like runaways. On the back.of the receipt that was attached to the bag holding the rice boxes was a phone number. We saw that and went home. I didn't think of it again until this case. Was years before Andrew disappeared. My experience has always made me think it could easily have been an opportunist and Andrew was in wrong place at wrong time. However I personally wouldn't rule out a groomer.

 

[Diavola]

I always doubt the groomer theory because Andrew didn't have that much access to the internet. In other grooming cases, people around the victim are aware of where the groomer could come from. If Andrew wsa spending time online in the library, or went to internet cafe's, wouldn't other people be sort of aware of it? Like seeing him in the library often, or something.

 

[wcasewatch]

I always doubt the groomer theory because Andrew didn't have that much access to the internet. In other grooming cases, people around the victim are aware of where the groomer could come from. If Andrew wsa spending time online in the library, or went to internet cafe's, wouldn't other people be sort of aware of it? Like seeing him in the library often, or something.

There appears to be no hint or indication that he was interested in using the Internet. Some might find that difficult to believe, but 2007 was a different time. Plenty of teenagers had no need or want for the Internet. Many households didn't even have a broadband connection.

I also don't think he left the house enough to visit Internet cafes and engage in a secretive online relationship with a groomer.

 

[nothinonyou]

when I was about 10 I used to have to wait for my dad for about half an hour after school outside a local shop. I remember one day an older man coming up to me and asking me where he could buy ice cream, I pointed to the shop and he went in there, came back out and said they didn't have any, did I know anywhere else. I said I didn't know and luckily my dad came just then but I remember being really scared. Just giving an example of how quickly something sinister and strange can happen in broad daylight

 

[Inspector Evans]

One issue I've always had with the Sikth theory is that I don't think Andrew would know who they were. His music tastes are very mainstream in regards to the alternative stuff and the sort of bands you listen to when you first get into that type of music. There's also the question of how would he have bought the ticket? This was the last ever Sikth gig with that lineup and as far as I'm aware it was sold out which rules out buying on the door. He wouldn't have had a card to buy one online or over the phone and his parents would have noticed one being bought on their card. We can also rule out him buying it direct from the box office as it's in London.

I also note that according to Last FM Sikth played Sheffield Corporation less than 2 months before this gig which is 20-25 mins down the road from Andrews house by car or a simple train journey which also ran late enough to come back the same day (Last train back to Doncaster at the time was 11:28PM I believe). I could buy the rest of the theory, I just don't believe he was in London for that Sikth gig.

South Yorkshire police were working on the case and I imagine the local police force in London were also working on it. Not asking for the CCTV was probably just a case of left hand doesn't know what the right one is doing.

I got into this type of music in the mid 2000s...My Chemical Romance, Fall Out boy etc. Slipknot a bit more heavy than those of course.

In the summer of 2006 Sikth were on the bill at a famous UK music festival called Download (playing early on second stage on the Saturday):

DOWNLOAD 2006 - Download Festival

downloadfestival.co.uk

Also on the bill is StoneSour fronted by Corey Taylor who also is the singer for Slipknot.

He was likely at the age where he was interested to going to gigs/festivals. I actually went to Download last Saturday and you see much younger kids around than 14 year olds. I think given his Dad didn't automatically rule out that theory meant he was probably pestering them to go.

Maybe he wasn't allowed to go to the Sheffield gig and so rebelled and wanted to go to the final one (although they've since reformed) hence the large cash withdrawal as may well have been touts nearby.

It's interesting as just wearing a t shirt is normally the attire you'd wear going to a gig rather than a large coat and jumper although I'm guessing the weather was still mild mid September.

As I said before on this thread a few years back I've always wondered the role of the relatives actually based in London in this. I imagine it was a few days after when the ticket seller from Donny station came forward and so they realised his destination was London so surely you get the relatives involved as they may have known some areas he liked to frequent on family trips?

I wonder whatever happened to the PSP. That is retro like a Gameboy now so would be a curiosity if it was ever discovered but I presume it's long since been scrapped/destroyed by any potential abductor.

If Andrew decided to end his life then it would've been left somewhere.

 

[Inspector Evans]

One more thing aswell. A few years back when I was more invested in this case I remember searching around to see what was on YT about it and linked was some sort of gamers convention in a London park that very weekend. Camera panned on a group of teenagers and there was someone baring a resemblance to Andrew in the group. There were loads of comments below mentioning that point.

I'll have to go and see if the video is still up and post it on here unless it was covered ages ago in this thread. There is a vague mention of a Youtube convention happening around that time on the wiki page about this case.

I'm not sure he came to harm immediately after leaving the station so do find the Pizza Hut sighting credible as it would've been coming up to 1pm by the time he walked up to Oxford Circus so would've fancied something to eat. Late evening wandering back streets of London at his age and not knowing anyone or where to stay is where potential danger starts to lie really.

 

[Inspector Evans]

This is the video, there are comments below and when you watch it there are people that look similar to him so I'd say that's the type of gathering that would attract him to London to meet like minded people of similar age.

Also a reason he probably took his PSP. If he's withdrawing 200 quid it wouldn't be that far fetched to think he travelled down on the Friday, maybe tried to catch a gig, stayed the night at somewhere cheap and then gone to this type of convention and then gone back home on the Saturday (hence maybe why he refused the return ticket at the station as that would've been return on the same day).

In 2007 you could probably cover all that for 200 quid.

Those type of meet ups back then were still very much in their infancy. Think Youtube had only been going a year or two and Myspace was very much the social media channel back then.

I know people will say how would he know this not using the internet but I presume he knew someone in Donny who perhaps had a shared interest and knew of this event but couldn't do themselves but that planted the idea in his head.

It's very frustrating with how slow the CCTV obtained was. I get the horrible feeling that if it had been secured more quickly you'd have probably seen him pop up a bit more in London that afternoon so would've had a reasonable trail to appeal to witnesses instead of just one sighting outside Kings Cross which has endless people coming and going every ten seconds.

 

[KathPlumber]

What about the idea that he had had plenty of access to the internet during his gifted kids camp or whatever it was he had been to? I know I’ve seen a timetable for that but I can’t recall where, and every afternoon / evening there was all this unfettered internet time. Anything to that do you think? I don’t know the case especially well.

 

[Helen_Stewart]

I remember this case, and it's so sad that after all these years there is still no resolution. I doubt it is a suicide as why travel all that way?
IMO, I think he fell prey to a predator not long after arriving in London. Having said that, it would be wonderful if he turned up alive and well.

Many years ago, someone I knew ran away to London with her friend. They were missing for five days. The police found them in a squat with drug dealers. They'd been picked up at the railway station, after being offered accommodation. They were scared, filthy and hungry. She was 15 years old at the time, and never talked about the experience.

 

[WiseOwl]

Back in 2007 you could talk to people 'live' while playing on a PSP. I know because my 10 year-old nephew had one. I remember visiting him one day, i can't remember what game he was playing (maybe Halo?), but he had his headphones on and was talking to someone. I asked who he was talking to and he said some kids from America - i was shocked! I never knew that was possible, and neither did his parents when i told them.

I believe it's extremely likely Andrew was talking to someone while playing on his PSP, and that's why he ended up travelling to London. We know he bought a one-way ticket, maybe this person had offered to pay for his ticket back home? Or even offered to drive him back to Doncaster?

I always have the belief that the truth about Andrew will surface one day.

 

[Helen_Stewart]

We know he bought a one-way ticket, maybe this person had offered to pay for his ticket back home? Or even offered to drive him back to Doncaster?

I always have the belief that the truth about Andrew will surface one day.

Interesting that he bought a one way ticket. Is that because he didn't have enough money for a return ticket, or was he intending to stay in London and not go back to Doncaster?

 

[VelvetDiamante]

The person in the YouTube Gathering video ruled himself out. He said he was 19 at the time and 6ft tall. Andrew was quite petite. I don't think it looks like him anyway - a lot of teenage boys back then had long hair and wore band t shirts.

 

[Helen_Stewart]

The person in the YouTube Gathering video ruled himself out. He said he was 19 at the time and 6ft tall. Andrew was quite petite. I don't think it looks like him anyway - a lot of teenage boys back then had long hair and wore band t shirts.

That's what always got to me about this case is how small and vulnerable he looked in the final photo.

 

[WiseOwl]

Interesting that he bought a one way ticket. Is that because he didn't have enough money for a return ticket, or was he intending to stay in London and not go back to Doncaster?

He did have enough money for a return ticket, instead of going to school on the morning he went to London he withdrew £200 from his bank account at a cash point from the local garage. He then returned home, changed out of his uniform into the clothes he was last seen wearing that day and headed off to the railway station.

The ticket seller remembered Andrew, the one-way ticket he bought to King's Cross station cost £31.40 & she told him a return would only cost 50p more but he insisted on a single ticket.

So it would appear that he didn't intend to return home, at least not on that particular day.

 

[Helen_Stewart]

He did have enough money for a return ticket, instead of going to school on the morning he went to London he withdrew £200 from his bank account at a cash point from the local garage. He then returned home, changed out of his uniform into the clothes he was last seen wearing that day and headed off to the railway station.

The ticket seller remembered Andrew, the one-way ticket he bought to King's Cross station cost £31.40 & she told him a return would only cost 50p more but he insisted on a single ticket.

So it would appear that he didn't intend to return home, at least not on that particular day.

Thank you for this information. As you say, maybe he intended returning on a different day. Did he know anybody in London? Apologies if all this information has already been stated, I'll have to read through the thread from the start.