VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #13

[Deleted member 39678]

One thing that I've found interesting in this case is the total disdain for local and State law enforcement while Federal law enforcement is held in extremely high esteem.

Maybe it's just about individuals and not agency's. Or maybe something else. JMO.

 

[cocomod]

I would be intensely interested in the reason the juror was dismissed this morning

 

[cocomod]

One thing that I've found interesting in this case is the total disdain for local and State law enforcement while Federal law enforcement is held in extremely high esteem.

Maybe it's just about individuals and not agency's. Or maybe something else. JMO.

I am 98% pro LE, but not in this case because they have earned my disdain by their unprofessional and completely unacceptable investigation in the death of one of their own. The also drove all the way to NY for a cops funeral but didn’t go to OJO’s? Highly distasteful

 

[jepop]

There's one piece of proof that is more important than the rest put together - which is, did KR's car actually hit JOK? The unbiased testimony of the FBI elite experts in finding what was physically possible, and what was not, made that answer a clear and unchallenged no. It could NOT have hit him. That scene and those injuries could NOT have been caused by a car hitting him. (The cw had no one who could or would actually testify otherwise, because, well, the facts are the facts.)

The rest is just mud wrestling over what to make of the other pieces brought to court, in light of that one scientifically-proven, unchallenged fact.

If KR's car did not hit, you must acquit.

I believe the case should never have gone to trial but as, imo, the judge erred there, she should have corrected herself a few days ago and accepted defense's motion for a directed verdict jmo. I also believe the jury must acquit on the evidence but they should never have been put in this position in the first place. moo

 

[KSwizzle]

One thing that I've found interesting in this case is the total disdain for local and State law enforcement while Federal law enforcement is held in extremely high esteem.

Maybe it's just about individuals and not agency's. Or maybe something else. JMO.

I think it’s fair to look at the trial and judge it with an overall scope of agencies and departments but the two experts (there was probably more employees involved helping) hired by the fbi are not affiliated with the fbi, and gave their opinions outside of the happenings in the trial, and as far as we know they aren’t the fbi, do not represent the fbi, and should be judged on their merit as a non government entity

 

[pavlovsdaughter]

One thing that I've found interesting in this case is the total disdain for local and State law enforcement while Federal law enforcement is held in extremely high esteem.

Maybe it's just about individuals and not agency's. Or maybe something else. JMO.

Local and state law enforcement have not exactly done a lot to warrant holding them in high regard, tbh. Even if you think KR is guilty, I’m not sure anyone could argue that it was a good, thorough, unbiased investigation.

 

[pavlovsdaughter]

Anyone up for sharing their predictions?

I think and hope KR will be found NG, but I also recognize I’m too obsessed and invested in this case to be objective anymore. (Although I will say, I came into this case with the opinion that she did do it but could not be found guilty due to issues with the investigation - after the ARCCA guys, I’m convinced she did not do it period.)

If I had to scrape the most cynical parts of my psyche and find an angle most charitable to the prosecution, I think I’d come up with:
-NG murder
-Hung manslaughter OUI
-Hung leaving the scene

 

[Pipersand]

I listened to all of the evidence and the closing arguments. No prejudging, no bias. I liked AJ's closing more than CW's, but I silenced all of the noise. On the facts, I would find Ms. Read NG. My biggest hurdle to conviction was the science (sorry Trooper Paul) and the burden of proof. I do hope Officer JO'K's family find peace.

 

[Warwick7]

There's one piece of proof that is more important than the rest put together - which is, did KR's car actually hit JOK? The unbiased testimony of the FBI elite experts in finding what was physically possible, and what was not, made that answer a clear and unchallenged no. It could NOT have hit him. That scene and those injuries could NOT have been caused by a car hitting him. (The cw had no one who could or would actually testify otherwise, because, well, the facts are the facts.)

The rest is just mud wrestling over what to make of the other pieces brought to court, in light of that one scientifically-proven, unchallenged fact.

If KR's car did not hit, you must acquit.

There it's is!!!!!!!!!!!! BAM!!!!

If KR's car did not hit, you must acquit.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I think it’s fair to look at the trial and judge it with an overall scope of agencies and departments but the two experts (there was probably more employees involved helping) hired by the fbi are not affiliated with the fbi, and gave their opinions outside of the happenings in the trial, and as far as we know they aren’t the fbi, do not represent the fbi, and should be judged on their merit as a non government entity

I would really like to know why the FBI hired these experts. I assume it's because of some kind of investigation of wrong doing by LE.

That could mean the FBI told the experts that they needed evidence to support a criminal case and can they help in that goal.

The FBI would be a big customer for future jobs that these experts would obviously like to do more work for.

Just some thoughts about a case that we will probably never know the entire truth. JMO.

 

[Warwick7]

One thing that I've found interesting in this case is the total disdain for local and State law enforcement while Federal law enforcement is held in extremely high esteem.

Maybe it's just about individuals and not agency's. Or maybe something else. JMO.

It's one of the things that really really bothers me about this case. I have an extremely high respect for LE. To see them behave so twisted really gets to me.

 

[Warwick7]

I would be intensely interested in the reason the juror was dismissed this morning

Me too!!!!

 

[Warwick7]

And let's talk for a moment about the very last clip where Lally showed them backing up the SUV....big fat hairy deal. The jury heard how the PhDs/scientists built a cannon, used physics equations, and gave serious stats of how your body actually reacts to force.

 

[Marie_1957]

If you are on Twitter/X, Law & Crime has a verdict account (@LawCrimeVerdict) that is great. Just follow them and turn on notifications. The sole purpose of that account is verdict alerts.

This is fantastic! Thanks!

 

[Spectrix]

Brian Albert and his family didn't even bother to come out of their house while JOK lay dying on their front lawn. They didn't attend JOK's funeral.
Yet they all filed in to court on the final day of the trial, and sat facing the jury on the day they are to begin their deliberations.

It's abhorrent behaviour.

 

[jepop]

Brian Albert and his family didn't even bother to come out of their house while JOK lay dying on their front lawn. They didn't attend JOK's funeral.
Yet they all filed in to court on the final day of the trial, and sat facing the jury on the day they are to begin their deliberations.

It's abhorrent behaviour.

It would be immensely satisfying to see an investigation discretely reopened into JO's death down the track. By an outside investigative entity. I know there are many issues with cold cases, and the power dynamics in this situation would be very difficult to overcome. Yet I believe an investigation could still uncover the truth. Someone may give something away and start the ball rolling.moo

This is awful for the O'Keefe family. If KR is acquitted as she should be, maybe down the track the O'Keefes will get legal advice and decide to push back at Lally and his keepers and MSP; file for damages resulting from an incompetent, corrupt investigation and the misleading cw prosecution which followed in its wake. moo

 

[mrjitty]

A slightly anorak and nerdy request to the longtimers in this thread - does anyone know off hand when the question of admissibility of alternate suspects was ruled on in this case? And was it televised or is there are transcript? I am very interested in this topic and in this case, KR seemed to have a lot of evidence to raise a SODDI case yet the Judge did heavily limit it.

TIA! MOO

 

[TIGER0822]

I think there's a good reason why the Judge tell's the jury that the lawyer's statements are not evidence.

It's because both sides can say things that are not entirely true. I found that out in the first case I followed on this forum with statements made by defense attorney Jose Baez in the Casey Anthony trial. JMO.

Closing statements are not allowed into evidence.

 

[fluffypaste]

Today, we will have a verdict.

 

[mrjitty]

I've been catching up on the flipped sally port video. Surely there will be a huge civil claim against the state for putting that in evidence? Seems insane to me.