Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #8

[jjleroche]

Was this missing woman that people are talking about a Qatari national? If so it is quite possible her parents need to be questioned especially if there was a pregnancy involved

DBM

 

[jjleroche]

Duplication

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Re Lisa's name before she married GL.
I'm almost certain I did see it way back when GL was arrested. On a pilots forum. From someone who'd worked with her. It's gone now from the forum, or the part of the forum I can see.
It also seems gone from my memory
When I try to think of it, I see an S. But I could be wrong.

Took a read through a pilot's forum and read that Greg Lynn joined the Royal Australian Air Force in 1986 as a cadet, wanting to be a fighter pilot. When he failed to make the top tier and was likely to be assigned transport planes, he quit to be a commercial pilot, first in Tasmania and then with Ansett Airlines.

Would seem to indicate that Lisa lived in Tassie originally. Her parents living there now is consistent with that theory.

 

[changintimes]

(PhysOrg.com) -- From an environmental standpoint, silver and white cars are cool; black cars are not. A light-colored shell reflects more sunlight than a dark car shell. The cooler the color, the cooler the cabin air, and the less of a need to run your air conditioner.

Thankyou. You must have missed my post of yesterday, in which I explained about white colours reflecting too much glare into eyes, especially the reflection from around windscreens and windows that could enter the inside of the vehicle and impacting the driver's vision.

I am fully aware of the information you posted.

 

[changintimes]

I have been looking at the drone rules for March 2020 - as drone use is not NOW allowed in National Parks, without a permit.
And I know that drone rules have been evolving over time.

Back in March 2020, drone use was allowed in National Parks.
I don't think that Russell was breaching any rules.


√ OK in National Parks and near these landscapes

View attachment 514554
Can I Fly My Drone In National Parks In Australia?
March 26, 2020

Using the link you have provided, the article was dated 26/3/2020.

under the heading "Victoria" the following information is readily available:



Yesterday I posted information, and in that it included that Detective Florence had requested Parks Victoria to collect burnt debris from the Bucks Camp area.

Also directly linked from what you supplied is this link Wonnangatta Four-Wheel-Drive Map Ed1 (2010) *MAP NOT CURRENT*

When you open this link you will find maps which show the boundaries in the area of discussion.


It is pretty clear that flying a drone in the general area was illegal; it appears RH may have been breaking some very strict laws with regard to flight paths he had permitted his drone to enter. Of course, there is the possibility that RH had applied to Parks Victoria and provided his 'operations plan' as required by law and perhaps it had been granted. There is also the possibility that he may have needed to make his separate applications for each date and place at which he wanted to fly his drone.
Further information is available here Drones in parks and reserves: What's allowed?
And amongst this information is the below information:

Victoria: Flying drones in managed parks and reserves​

Parks Victoria acknowledge this is a complex topic as Parks Victoria does not manage the airspace, however there are specific regulations within the National park regulations 2013 that prohibits the launch and land of an aircraft in our managed parks/reserves. In this case this regulation would not be breached if launching or landing outside the park. However, this particular action/activity will be at risk of breaching other acts and regulations such as interfering with animals or disturbing devices and the general public (park visitors) and The Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 which have regulations in place for protection of Flora and Fauna.

Therefore, given the dates detailed in t he above para, the regulations were valid as at 20/3/2020 and well beforehand.

 

[AussieIan]

It's a NO from me and I don't see the jury buying that fairytale any more readily than the one they have already seen through. The murderer Lynn just dug himself a hole just too deep for a fairytale to save him.

It's far more believable than RH going and stealing his gun. I think Lynns mistake was trying to remove all culpability from himself. He would have been better off admitting (as I suspect was the case) that alcohol was involved and involving RH as another intoxicated individual. It made no sense the way he told it, but if you add alcohol as a factor, people do things that don't make sense when they're drunk, it would help legitimise any claimed aggression, rapid escalation, poor decision making on either mans part, etc.



If he said he was very intoxicated, said there was no argument with Russell, researched RHs character online in the 18mths after, found something they could have talked about camping and hit it off (they both liked drones?) then they polished off a bottle of whiskey each, Russell was having a great time, CC had gone to bed or was asking RH to stop drinking and go to bed (implying she was concerned at RH level of intoxication), Lynn offered to let him shoot cans with his shotgun/show him some gun tricks, something awfuls gone wrong... It sounds more open, honest and believable than his version imo.

Wouldn't matter if people said it the behaviour didn't fit RHs character because we're suggesting he's highly intoxicated, doesn't matter if they say RH wasn't a big drinker, he would have been under some level of stress with the affair, found a kindred spirit he could talk about (insert hobby) was feeling happy and free, didn't realise how much he'd drunk.

A defense lawyer would be able to sell that better than RH stealing his gun in the middle of the night don't ya think?

Hell, Lynn would probably have been better off saying he just blacked out and woke up and they were both dead. Would likely have copped 2 manslaughter convictions but that's better than double murder.

He gambled big with his story and lost.

To be clear I don't think RH did any of this, just spinning a more believable yarn. Would you doubt that story less than you doubt Lynns version?

Forget all of this wrestling over the gun oh wow is me rubbish. I reckon he deliberately ambushed them to steal the drone or ambushed them and shot them point blank just to steal the drone. Because he’s nuts and a bully, and the drone caught him out. His interviews are interesting, and feel rehearsed and scripted. The notepad and tapping of the pen seem to help to recall the rehearsed storyline and follow the order of contrived events. Keeping in mind he’s a trained pilot and his thinking would be sequenced, logical and good at finding solutions to problems.

I know there are psychopaths out there, It just seems like such a massive escalation from an argument. I tend to see the good in people, It's hard to believe someone would ambush and execute a senior couple because of a disagreement. It's something a low IQ violent type would more commonly do and Lynn as a pilot doesn't present that image. Totally agree he could be a psychopath but he is definitely of at least average intelligence and it just doesn't seem even mildly intelligent to kill them that way.

 

[AussieIan]

Took a read through a pilot's forum and read that Greg Lynn joined the Royal Australian Air Force in 1986 as a cadet, wanting to be a fighter pilot. When he failed to make the top tier and was likely to be assigned transport planes, he quit to be a commercial pilot, first in Tasmania and then with Ansett Airlines.

Would seem to indicate that Lisa lived in Tassie originally. Her parents living there now is consistent with that theory.

Had a friend fail his final fighter test because he obeyed a direction from an instructor he should have refused (perform a potentially unsafe manoeuvre). Spent years drilling them to obey orders, but at that top level they want people who will be confident in making their own decisions despite what a superior says, even as a trainee.

Was quite interesting.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Thankyou. You must have missed my post of yesterday, in which I explained about white colours reflecting too much glare into eyes, especially the reflection from around windscreens and windows that could enter the inside of the vehicle and impacting the driver's vision.

The jury would have seen right through that little fable.

Do you know what the most popular colour is for Australian cars?

White.

Nearly 1 in 3 cars on Australian roads is white.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

It's far more believable than RH going and stealing his gun.

I would rate it equally unlikely to be true and I don't think the jury would have swallowed it any more readily than Lynn's other fairytale.

 

[AussieIan]

Nearly 1 in 3 cars on Australian roads is white.

Lynn doing his best to throw that statistic out, 1 car, 3 colours


That you think it equally unlikely surprises me but fair enough, I only have to convince 1/12 right?

 

[Rocket333]

I know there are psychopaths out there, It just seems like such a massive escalation from an argument. I tend to see the good in people, It's hard to believe someone would ambush and execute a senior couple because of a disagreement. It's something a low IQ violent type would more commonly do and Lynn as a pilot doesn't present that image. Totally agree he could be a psychopath but he is definitely of at least average intelligence and it just doesn't seem even mildly intelligent to kill them that way.

There will be more to it. Something happened after RH’s 6pm-ish radio call as he didn’t mention any issues to his audience.
Reckon GL was already pissed off and then something later on triggered him and he marched up to R & C’s camp with his gun and a menacing tone. He sounds like a bear that’s easy to poke. It probably was an impulsive act but the lengths GL went to to obliterate all clues about what really went down says it all for me.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

It's hard to believe someone would ambush and execute a senior couple because of a disagreement. It's something a low IQ violent type would more commonly do and Lynn as a pilot doesn't present that image. Totally agree he could be a psychopath but he is definitely of at least average intelligence and it just doesn't seem even mildly intelligent to kill them that way.

Having a higher than average IQ isn't an alibi. This is a one of incident involving the killing of two people. There have been serial killers with above average IQs.

An unarmed, elderly couple met up with an armed psychopath and only the psychopath lived to tell the lies.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Lynn doing his best to throw that statistic out, 1 car, 3 colours


That you think it equally unlikely surprises me but fair enough, I only have to convince 1/12 right?

I'm yet to see you convince anyone of anything but you do at least acknowledge how hard it is to believe Lynn's story of Hill stealing Lynn's gun is, and his entire story relies on that being believed.

 

[changintimes]

Thanks. It looks like it's tied with a bit of the end hanging over the headlight. Or is that something else? Considering possibilities, such as they began the struggle both to the same side of the line--then if the barrel came over the bonnet it was diagonally with Russell initially standing by the passenger door. It comes back to the absurdity of GL hiding from the man with his gun in the man's own campsite.

And the alternative view could well be that if RH was making his way back to his own vehicle to lock up the gun taken from GL's vehicle (as stated by GL), the shortest route would have been to the driver side of his (RH) vehicle. GL explained to detectives (in the tapes just released) that RH had fired off two shots. GL also told detectives that he wanted to regain possession of his gun (and it is obvious that RH did not have permission from GL to take possession of the gun) and GL stated he had become concerned that RH may fire the gun at him; it is MO, that GL would have made his way around to the passenger side of RH vehicle (via the rear of that vehicle) and crouched down so that RH could not see him and at this time it would be likely CC was still within the RH tent. Then when GL considered the time was right, he then approached RH from the passenger side in an attempt to regain possession of his gun and that is when the struggle occurred. This would place both men on the left hand side of the guy rope (if viewing seated in the passenger seat of RH vehicle).

Note: At the time the two men struggled, and GL was demanding that RH return his gun to him, CC exited the tent after hearing the demands made by GL to RH to return his gun and I am sure there was lots of grunting and groaning and 'language', and she had become concerned and crouched down between the passenger side rear view mirror and the rear of RH vehicle. A shot was accidentally let off, striking the mirror assembly and hit CC as she raised her head to check what was happening with the men.

What I rely on for the alternative view, is the considerable angle the toilet tent is sitting at. Many of RH's friends have talked about how finicky he was when setting up his campsites IMO. I don't consider RH would have set up the toilet tent on such an angle, with the roof line skewed like it is it looks to be unstable. I consider this angle of the toilet tent shows that during the struggle the left side of the tent (as viewed in aerial shot) has been pushed back by scuffling feet or even by RH when he lost his balance (as described by GL). No one knows how tight the guy rope was tied on 20th either, or if in fact it was tied like it is in other photos.

 

[wallyworld]

Re Lisa's name before she married GL.
I'm almost certain I did see it way back when GL was arrested. On a pilots forum. From someone who'd worked with her. It's gone now from the forum, or the part of the forum I can see.
It also seems gone from my memory
When I try to think of it, I see an S. But I could be wrong.

Lisa Searle and yes as someone suggested she was a Tassie girl from Wynyard.
Lisa is buried in Burnie, Tasmania

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Lisa Searle and yes as someone suggested she was a Tassie girl from Wynyard.

Yes that was it, Searle. I did think it was SE something.

 

[AussieIan]

I'm yet to see you convince anyone of anything but you do at least acknowledge how hard it is to believe Lynn's story of Hill stealing Lynn's gun is, and his entire story relies on that being believed.

Well it's going against the train of thought here, I'm not trying to change minds just discuss the things the case makes me think about and see what others think. It's very interesting to posit different scenarios and see how accepted they are. (No need to screenshot my posts I'm not practicing for anything). It irks me when people don't really have an argument other than 'hes clearly a psychopath he must have done it' and I genuinely thought parts of his story required more examination than they recieved. I didn't think there would be so much pushback because it would just help ensure his conviction if his story was ......maybe I enjoy a good argument too. I did find it eye opening that I'm in a distinct minority of people who wanted more/more detailed answers before settling on a conclusion. I thought it would be a little less lopsided on a crime forum.



Yeah that was always the main part that bothered me, everything else while unlikely, I could see happening and was a logical chain of reactions and events, if he had a better story to initiate the confrontation than RH taking the gun I'd be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt but it was hard to get past that particular claim because even if it was true, it suggests Russell had a very good reason to want to take that firearm and it wouldn't have been because he thought Lynn was a friendly chap.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Well it's going against the train of thought here..

You are going against the train of thought everywhere, not just here. I am yet to find anyone anywhere who is thinking along similar lines to you.

That Lynn murdered Carol Clay is a given, regardless of who you ask or what you read. There are some varying views about how Russell Hill died though. But clearly Hill's first 'mistake' was meeting up with an armed psychopath like Lynn. If they'd never crossed paths he and Carol Clay would still be with us.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Re Greg Lynn's time overseas.

If a woman he knew disappeared, and it wasn't looked into, or not well enough, there would still be family and friends wanting to know what happened to her, and they'd still want to know no matter how long ago it happened.

His whole life needs going over in detail. I'm sure there is much more to be found, and likely nothing good.

 

[Rocket333]

A defense lawyer would be able to sell that better than RH stealing his gun in the middle of the night don't ya think?

Hell, Lynn would probably have been better off saying he just blacked out and woke up and they were both dead. Would likely have copped 2 manslaughter convictions but that's better than double murder.

He gambled big with his story and lost.

To be clear I don't think RH did any of this, just spinning a more believable yarn. Would you doubt that story less than you doubt Lynns version?

I agree. His tale is elaborate and it was probably written backwards. If you don’t tell the truth, and you’ve destroyed the scene, decimated the bodies, and fled, how do you begin penning a convincing narrative of innocence?