UK The Mystery of 'Bible John,' Scotland's Zodiac Killer

[UnDiluted7]

I''m part way through listening to the BBC podcast series on this and from what I've heard so far the biblical connection really does not sound very strong. Unless I've missed something it seems to be based on him being asked about if he supported Rangers or Celtic and he apparently said "neither, I'm agnostic". Given the religious aspects around football in Glasgow it's a comment anyone not into the footie might have made.

From my memory, did he not follow that up with a detailed quote from scripture in response to being asked if being agnostic was the same as being an atheist?

 

[Grouse]

From my memory, did he not follow that up with a detailed quote from scripture in response to being asked if being agnostic was the same as being an atheist?

As I said, it's possible I've missed something, I'm mainly going on the BBC podcast and I don't recall that detail being mentioned.

 

[UnDiluted7]

As I said, it's possible I've missed something, I'm mainly going on the BBC podcast and I don't recall that detail being mentioned.

"and he had been a polite and well-spoken individual,[38] having frequently quoted from the Old Testament during the trio's taxi ride home, while also indicating he was neither Catholic nor Protestant.[36]"

I'm directly linking a Wikipedia article, which I am loathe to do as a sole source, but it does reference back to valid source material: Day, Jeremy (1995). Ultimate Crimes: The Hunt Goes On for Bible John. London, England: Nexus Media.

 

[Grouse]

"and he had been a polite and well-spoken individual,[38] having frequently quoted from the Old Testament during the trio's taxi ride home, while also indicating he was neither Catholic nor Protestant.[36]"

I'm directly linking a Wikipedia article, which I am loathe to do as a sole source, but it does reference back to valid source material: Day, Jeremy (1995). Ultimate Crimes: The Hunt Goes On for Bible John. London, England: Nexus Media.

That's interesting, thanks. Having listened to all the BBC podcast, (my only main source of info on this case I have to admit) including the fairly lengthy interview with Helen Puttocks's sister who was in the taxi, I can only recall the football/atheist reference.

 

[UnDiluted7]

A

That's interesting, thanks. Having listened to all the BBC podcast, (my only main source of info on this case I have to admit) including the fairly lengthy interview with Helen Puttocks's sister who was in the taxi, I can only recall the football/atheist reference.

All good. I vaguely remember a documentary (youtube??) that fleshed it out a little more too, but it seems to have stuck regardless of what was actually said during the taxi ride...

 

[SolVic]

Honestly, I’m excited. This is, without question, the most promising lead we’ve had in decades. Do we know anything else about John Templeton?

 

[dotr]

By Norman Silvester Keiran FlemingReporter , 1 JUL 2024

Family of Bible John victim welcome police investigation into new suspect

Sammy Mottley revealed that her family are hopeful detectives will uncover new evidence about former printer John Templeton, who was linked to one case through DNA.

www.glasgowlive.co.uk

''The great-granddaughter of Bible John victim Jemima MacDonald has welcomed the police investigation into a new suspect.

Sammy Mottley revealed that her family are hopeful detectives will uncover new evidence about former printer John Templeton, who was linked to one case through DNA.''

''Sammy, 31, was left stunned when she saw the picture of Templeton, named by author Jill Bavin-Mizzi as Helen’s possible killer, alongside the police drawing of Bible John.
She said: “The likeness is unreal. They look the same person. I’m blown away. It sent shivers down my spine.''

 

[Owlpellet]

If they had his actual name and likeness... what kind of alibi did he produce, for them to rule him out I wonder? Was Helen Puttock's sister never asked if she could identify him? It's mind boggling that he was allowed to slip away if he truly was responsible for at least some of the murders.

I always thought the religious remark was a red herring. I can't remember what was said now, but it sounded like a joke to me... the sort of thing many Glaswegians might have said in jest.

 

[tilomagnet]

Agreed. If it was really him this has got to be the mother of all LE blunders....probably hundreds of thousands of working hours were spent on this case over decades and they couldnt nail him after he gave his real name and looked like a dead ringer for the sketch?!

I wonder when the John Templeton reference from the Taxi ride by Helen's sister was made public for the first time? Was it back in the day or much later? If it had been back in the day, how come none of his family and friends suspected him? Or maybe they did and noone followed up

I remain skeptical, but DNA does not lie.

 

[Grouse]

By Norman Silvester Keiran FlemingReporter , 1 JUL 2024

Family of Bible John victim welcome police investigation into new suspect

Sammy Mottley revealed that her family are hopeful detectives will uncover new evidence about former printer John Templeton, who was linked to one case through DNA.

www.glasgowlive.co.uk

''The great-granddaughter of Bible John victim Jemima MacDonald has welcomed the police investigation into a new suspect.

Sammy Mottley revealed that her family are hopeful detectives will uncover new evidence about former printer John Templeton, who was linked to one case through DNA.''

''Sammy, 31, was left stunned when she saw the picture of Templeton, named by author Jill Bavin-Mizzi as Helen’s possible killer, alongside the police drawing of Bible John.
She said: “The likeness is unreal. They look the same person. I’m blown away. It sent shivers down my spine.''

Agreed. If it was really him this has got to be the mother of all LE blunders....probably hundreds of thousands of working hours were spent on this case over decades and they couldnt nail him after he gave his real name and looked like a dead ringer for the sketch?!

I wonder when the John Templeton reference from the Taxi ride by Helen's sister was made public for the first time? Was it back in the day or much later? If it had been back in the day, how come none of his family and friends suspected him? Or maybe they did and noone followed up

I remain skeptical, but DNA does not lie.

Seem to be some real parallels here with the investigation that the journalist Samantha Poling did on the Emma Caldwell case which also highlighted some serious failings within the Glasgow police. In that case too they had spent a fortune investigating the Turkish cafe and so seemed reluctant to change track after that despite overwhelming evidence implicating Packer.

 

[Grouse]

Peter Tobin "used the name John Semple" according to Hunt for Bible John comes to an end after only witness in case dies

 

[SolVic]

Merry Christmas, everyone. One of the gifts I got was the book about John Templeton. I’ll read it and give out the information provided about Templeton.

 

[sportstergirl]

Bible John was a red haired 6 footer, Peter Tobin was a dark haired 5'5" Could Bible John have been a serviceman & was deployed overseas after the final murder? Far as I know there are no more murders with the same MO, did he die or go to prison for a lengthy sentence? Did he emigrate?
This was the case that got me into true crime shortly after my 10th birthday.

 

[Susikatze]

Seem to be some real parallels here with the investigation that the journalist Samantha Poling did on the Emma Caldwell case which also highlighted some serious failings within the Glasgow police. In that case too they had spent a fortune investigating the Turkish cafe and so seemed reluctant to change track after that despite overwhelming evidence implicating Packer.

Another indication is that along with having been a suspect in the initial investigation, Templeton committed suicide later in life. While it is possible that it is pure coincidence, but with the advent of DNA, many perps that lived a calm life suddenly got cold feet and took their lives.
I believe Templeton was Bible John. His name is a match, DNA matched, his appearance is spot on, he was already on the radar in the initial investigation and he committed suicide in 2015 (if i recall correctly).

I wonder what happened after the last murder? Was there something in his life - getting married (or if he was married, since the ballroom was a discreet hookupnplace for married folk, did his wife find out?)s having a new job, moving - that made him stop. You see this pattern in serial killers a lot

 

[Susikatze]

But in the BBC documentary, and other podcasts, they all say that the Barrowlands was known for illicit liaisons. It might well be that some women did have a quickie in the alley with him, but if they were married, they wouldn't have wanted to come forward to have said anything. Even if the women weren't married, society didn't look too kindly on women who may have decided to have sex with someone they met that night, so wouldn't have wanted to bring any attention to their behaviour

Agree, noone would have come forward. Apparently it was a hookup place for married people who went to drink, dance and have an affair. No married woman would have come forward, I guess even today it would be difficult to find witnesses.

 

[SolVic]

Okay, here’s what I got from the book.

A whopping thirty-one John Templetons had to be carefully eliminated. John Templeton (no middle name given) was born on March 27, 1945 in Glasgow, Scotland. He attended Bankhead Primary School until he was twelve years old. He went to Victoria Drive Higher Grade Public School until he was sixteen. He married a woman named June, but they later divorced. He died alone in his Melrose Gardens apartment on October 27, 2015 at the age of 70 due to a heart attack. He was cremated.

The evidence against him is as follows:
-Bible John used the name John Templeton on the night he murdered Helen Puttock.
-Templeton’s name exists among the ancestors of Hector and Janet McInnes, siblings whose DNA samples share patterns with the DNA profile extracted from the semen stain on Helen’s stockings.
-Templeton fits the age range of Bible John.
-Templeton was born and raised in Glasgow and therefore would’ve had a Glaswegian accent.
-Templeton was a foster child, which police suspected Bible John of being.
-Templeton had been fostered by a family who lived within walking distance to the Scotstoun House Children’s Home, which is the site Bible John identified as he passed by in the taxi.
-Templeton grew up with one sibling, a sister, which was what Bible John implied he had done.
-Templeton worked in a laboratory setting, which was what Bible John said he did.
-Templeton was still living in Scotstoun when the new transportation timetables and fare schedules came out in July 1969. Bible John was familiar with these north-of-the-river transportation timetable and fare changes.
-Templeton moved into an apartment located in North Kelvinside less than three months before Helen’s murder. The apartment was within walking distance from where Bible John left the number 6 night service bus on the night of Helen’s murder.